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Thread: TwinBasic

  1. #1721
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    Re: TwinBasic

    1) Yes, it has been lifted, along with most other similar limits.

    2) There's a lot of bugs with running, especially when running them in 64bit VBA, and Property Pages aren't supported for in-project UCs (.tbcontrol, same as .ctl, as opposed to ocx)

    3) The Printer object is completely unimplemented at this point, but it's an announced feature for v1, so can be expected very likely before the end of the year. If you want to print, you'll need a solution such as BSPrinter (has been tested to work in tB according to their page), or doing it manually through Windows APIs/COM interfaces.

    4) Collection performance blows VB6 out of the water on most operations, some being thousands of times faster, and matches it on the rest. And this is without compiler optimization (early tests of that show it beating VB6, but it can't optimization code with classes/objects yet)

    5) Lines of code themselves aren't a limitation... my ucShellBrowse control works perfectly, for instance, and that's 50k lines with a dependency on tbShellLib, my oleexp replacement that's also covering large swathes of the Windows API base, clocking in at 167k lines, nearly every one going into the global namespace. But larger projects do raise the odds something in it will be unimplemented or hit a bug (of which there are still quite a few, being in beta and all).

    Check out these Collection benchmarks Wayne posted in the Discord channel:


    removal all items via index position (backwards, sequential), 60000 items. 2607ms 1ms
    removal all items via index position (random), 60000 items. 2270ms 43ms


    (the last two couldn't fit on my screen for the screenshot)
    Last edited by fafalone; Sep 4th, 2023 at 07:42 PM.

  2. #1722
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    Re: TwinBasic

    There's something wrong with the VB6.Col For Each test...
    ...which traditionally works pretty fast (as the test below shows, when enumerating 1Mio entries)

    Code:
    Private Sub Form_Click()
      Cls
      Dim i As Long, Col As New Collection, T, V
      
      T = Timer: i = 0
        For i = 1 To 10 ^ 6
          Col.Add i
        Next
      Print "Col Add:", CLng((Timer - T) * 1000) & "msec"
      
      T = Timer: i = 0
        For Each V In Col
          i = i + 1: If i <> V Then Stop
        Next
      Print "For Each:", CLng((Timer - T) * 1000) & "msec"
    End Sub
    Olaf

  3. #1723
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    Re: TwinBasic

    Quote Originally Posted by fafalone View Post
    1) Yes, it has been lifted, along with most other similar limits.

    2) There's a lot of bugs with running, especially when running them in 64bit VBA, and Property Pages aren't supported for in-project UCs (.tbcontrol, same as .ctl, as opposed to ocx)

    3) The Printer object is completely unimplemented at this point, but it's an announced feature for v1, so can be expected very likely before the end of the year. If you want to print, you'll need a solution such as BSPrinter (has been tested to work in tB according to their page), or doing it manually through Windows APIs/COM interfaces.

    4) Collection performance blows VB6 out of the water on most operations, some being thousands of times faster, and matches it on the rest. And this is without compiler optimization (early tests of that show it beating VB6, but it can't optimization code with classes/objects yet)

    5) Lines of code themselves aren't a limitation... my ucShellBrowse control works perfectly, for instance, and that's 50k lines with a dependency on tbShellLib, my oleexp replacement that's also covering large swathes of the Windows API base, clocking in at 167k lines, nearly every one going into the global namespace. But larger projects do raise the odds something in it will be unimplemented or hit a bug (of which there are still quite a few, being in beta and all).

    Check out these Collection benchmarks Wayne posted in the Discord channel:


    removal all items via index position (backwards, sequential), 60000 items. 2607ms 1ms
    removal all items via index position (random), 60000 items. 2270ms 43ms


    (the last two couldn't fit on my screen for the screenshot)
    Thanks for the info fafalone, really helpful! I'm getting more and more anxious to try this, and your answers on points 1 and 2 are a great help for some design decisions I have to take now.

  4. #1724
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    Re: TwinBasic

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmidt View Post
    There's something wrong with the VB6.Col For Each test...
    ...which traditionally works pretty fast (as the test below shows, when enumerating 1Mio entries)

    Code:
    Private Sub Form_Click()
      Cls
      Dim i As Long, Col As New Collection, T, V
      
      T = Timer: i = 0
        For i = 1 To 10 ^ 6
          Col.Add i
        Next
      Print "Col Add:", CLng((Timer - T) * 1000) & "msec"
      
      T = Timer: i = 0
        For Each V In Col
          i = i + 1: If i <> V Then Stop
        Next
      Print "For Each:", CLng((Timer - T) * 1000) & "msec"
    End Sub
    Olaf
    Well spotted. Indeed, there was a copy-paste bug in the for-each test causing the results to also be affected by the cost of forward-index retrieval. After fixing the bug, the VB6 and tB versions of that test now look to perform similarly.

  5. #1725
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    Re: TwinBasic

    Quote Originally Posted by Erwin69 View Post
    Thanks for the info fafalone, really helpful! I'm getting more and more anxious to try this, and your answers on points 1 and 2 are a great help for some design decisions I have to take now.
    For number 2, Property Pages for UCs are also planned for V1 so aren't too far off, and I'm sure much work will go into fixing all the major bugs before then too.

  6. #1726
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    Re: TwinBasic

    Quote Originally Posted by fafalone View Post
    For number 2, Property Pages for UCs are also planned for V1 so aren't too far off, and I'm sure much work will go into fixing all the major bugs before then too.
    Well, I'm still some way off that 256 controls limit, but to avoid potential problems going forward, I was considering a redesign of part of the UI by combining a number of controls (treeview, listview, label, combo, splitter bar, frame, picturebox) into a UC, which then could be repeated a number of times. (Think of the app having several tabs with a similar view on each tab, but covering different topics.) But if I can avoid spending time on that, I have more time for other things that increase functionality.

  7. #1727
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    Re: twinBASIC programming

    twinBASIC status update:

    twinBASIC Update: September 10, 2023

    Highlights include a global search IDE addin sample, addin extensibility access to the filesystem, and a discussion about inheritance in twinBASIC.

    nolongerset.com/twinbasic-update-september-10-2023

  8. #1728
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    Re: TwinBasic

    Quote Originally Posted by Erwin69 View Post
    Well, I'm still some way off that 256 controls limit
    I hit that limit regularly. Creating controls arrays of all the labels normally gives me sufficient space but it is another good reason to migrate to TB.
    https://github.com/yereverluvinunclebert

    Skillset: VMS,DOS,Windows Sysadmin from 1985, fault-tolerance, VaxCluster, Alpha,Sparc. DCL,QB,VBDOS- VB6,.NET, PHP,NODE.JS, Graphic Design, Project Manager, CMS, Quad Electronics. classic cars & m'bikes. Artist in water & oils. Historian.

    By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are battle free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.

  9. #1729
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    Re: TwinBASIC programming

    Quote Originally Posted by VB6 Programming View Post
    The twinBASIC Family Tree

    VB6 and twinBASIC are "twins". You know, just like Arnold Schwarzenegger and Danny DeVito are twins.

    https://nolongerset.com/the-twinbasic-family-tree/

    This is an interesting picture, where BASIC was everything at Microsoft, and now almost everything doesn't exist, one by one being abandoned.
    BASIC FOR DOS
    qbasic
    vb6
    vba
    vb.net
    ACCESS VB
    asp

  10. #1730
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    Re: TwinBasic

    Find details of the latest twinBASIC releases at...

    twinBASIC-programming-Beta-releases

  11. #1731
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    Re: twinBASIC programming

    twinBASIC status update:

    twinBASIC Update: September 17, 2023

    Highlights include inline editor widget support for tB IDE addins, a sample TODO addin, keyboard shortcut registration, and a preview of a UserControl Builder addin.

    nolongerset.com/twinbasic-update-september-17-2023

  12. #1732
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    Re: TwinBASIC programming

    twinBASIC status update:

    twinBASIC Update: September 24, 2023

    Highlights include a twinBASIC services status bar, a tB implementation of the Geometrize software, and a user activity monitoring class from fafalone.

    nolongerset.com/twinbasic-update-september-24-2023/

  13. #1733
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    Re: TwinBasic

    twinBASIC status update:

    twinBASIC Update: October 1, 2023

    Highlights include the release of the first community-built twinBASIC IDE Add-in and an update to fafalone's cTaskDialog project to add 64-bit VBA support.

    https://nolongerset.com/twinbasic-up...ctober-1-2023/

  14. #1734
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    Re: TwinBASIC programming

    twinBASIC status update:

    twinBASIC Update: October 8, 2023

    Highlights include debug-time evaluation of expressions on mouse hover and an x64-compatible version of sokinkeso's tB IDE addin, Usercontrol Builder.


    nolongerset.com/twinbasic-update-october-8-2023/

  15. #1735
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    Re: TwinBasic

    twinBASIC status update:

    twinBASIC Update: October 15, 2023

    Highlights include a new TextHint property for text boxes, an easier way to apply license keys, and updates to the official twinBASIC wiki documentation.

    nolongerset.com/twinbasic-update-october-15-2023/

  16. #1736
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    Re: TwinBasic

    twinBASIC status update:

    twinBASIC Update: October 22, 2023

    Highlights include experimental vbWatchdog support, a CheckBitness utility from fafalone, and a VB6 OSInfo class ported to twinBASIC.

    nolongerset.com/twinbasic-update-october-22-2023/

  17. #1737
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    Re: twinBASIC programming

    twinBASIC status update:

    twinBASIC Update: October 29, 2023

    Highlights include two new methods for tB IDE Add-in development and an upcoming rewrite of the standard library implementation.

    nolongerset.com/twinbasic-update-october-29-2023/

  18. #1738
    PowerPoster yereverluvinuncleber's Avatar
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    Re: TwinBasic

    There is a feature I would be willing to pay for. It is a feature that almost all recent IDEs lack, a very useful feature that almost all windows programs have had for years. It really frustrates me that this 'modern' trend has made it into TwinBasic too. I can't really complain but if the IDE does become FOSS I will make this change myself and in the meantime I will be prepared to make a donation IF someone adds this feature through configuration.

    I just want the TITLE BAR back!

    Plllleeeeeeease... give us the option to turn it off and on at our whim. I don't mind it being missing by default but I DO want one. They are very useful, I am used to having one on all my apps. and I don't want to grab the window by the tiny bit of remaining screen space left by the application's encroaching menus. I like to be able to close an off-screen app by dblClicking its top left icon, I've done that for decades.

    I'll donate!
    https://github.com/yereverluvinunclebert

    Skillset: VMS,DOS,Windows Sysadmin from 1985, fault-tolerance, VaxCluster, Alpha,Sparc. DCL,QB,VBDOS- VB6,.NET, PHP,NODE.JS, Graphic Design, Project Manager, CMS, Quad Electronics. classic cars & m'bikes. Artist in water & oils. Historian.

    By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are battle free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.

  19. #1739
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    Re: TwinBasic

    Lol I'll second that. Hate the no-titlebar trend.

  20. #1740
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    Re: TwinBasic

    And I do too!

  21. #1741
    PowerPoster yereverluvinuncleber's Avatar
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    https://github.com/yereverluvinunclebert

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    By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are battle free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.

  22. #1742
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    Re: TwinBasic

    twinBASIC status update:

    twinBASIC Update: November 5, 2023

    Highlights include a major overhaul of twinBASIC's internals, support for "destructuring assignment", and a VBA UserForm to tB converter.

    nolongerset.com/twinbasic-update-november-5-2023/

  23. #1743
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    Re: TwinBasic

    With regard to the look and feel of a TB app, I'll admit to preferring the pure VB6 graphical forms for the checkbox and radio buttons. I also have a pet hate for thin disappearing scrollbars, so deeply hoping it won't subject us to those.
    https://github.com/yereverluvinunclebert

    Skillset: VMS,DOS,Windows Sysadmin from 1985, fault-tolerance, VaxCluster, Alpha,Sparc. DCL,QB,VBDOS- VB6,.NET, PHP,NODE.JS, Graphic Design, Project Manager, CMS, Quad Electronics. classic cars & m'bikes. Artist in water & oils. Historian.

    By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are battle free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.

  24. #1744
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    Re: TwinBasic

    The CheckBox and Radio Button are just thin wrappers over their Win32 Common Controls, just like VB6. The only differences would be that tB enables comctl6 and visual styles by default, but you can turn those off, or use them in VB6 (I do), and that some people use compatibility shims for VB6, which you could use for tB exes if you really wanted to. But those aren't by default in VB6.

    For an existing project, delete the manifest under resources in Project Explorer, and for new ones, uncheck the 'Use Visual Styles' box when it shows up on creation.

    DPI awareness impacts how controls look too, and tB enables it by default, but you can select 'NONE' in new projects (I recommend this for VB6 imports if you don't have code explicitly supporting it), and in existing projects, in Settings scroll down to Project: Force DPI awareness at startup then check then box and set the dropdown to 'NONE'.

    Having your tB apps look identical to VB6 is just a matter of disabling settings designed to drag you into the modern era
    (Though IMHO 'modern era' for DPI awareness is that for 99% of apps, system scaling is good enough)


    Additionally, tB support Visual Styles *per control*. So if you prefer them for some controls but not others, you can mix and match. This a designer property like where Text or Caption is... VisualStyles.

  25. #1745
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    Re: TwinBasic

    Very good.
    https://github.com/yereverluvinunclebert

    Skillset: VMS,DOS,Windows Sysadmin from 1985, fault-tolerance, VaxCluster, Alpha,Sparc. DCL,QB,VBDOS- VB6,.NET, PHP,NODE.JS, Graphic Design, Project Manager, CMS, Quad Electronics. classic cars & m'bikes. Artist in water & oils. Historian.

    By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are battle free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.

  26. #1746
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    Re: twinBASIC programming

    twinBASIC status update:

    twinBASIC Update: November 12, 2023

    Highlights include more VB6-like IntelliSense added to the debug console, upcoming help improvements, and a twinBASIC follower milestone.

    nolongerset.com/twinbasic-update-november-12-2023/

  27. #1747
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    Re: TwinBasic

    twinBASIC status update:

    twinBASIC Update: November 19, 2023

    Highlights include an overhaul of the IntelliSense system, a project to get full paths of all running processes, and a new Kernel Mode Support Package.

    nolongerset.com/twinbasic-update-november-19-2023/

  28. #1748
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    Re: TwinBasic

    add in project can;'t load:

    sorry this menu options has not been implemented yet

  29. #1749
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    Re: TwinBASIC programming

    twinBASIC status update:

    twinBASIC Update: November 26, 2023

    Highlights include foundational work on the forthcoming Edit & Continue feature and a new wiki page documenting the twinBASIC compiler constants.

    nolongerset.com/twinbasic-update-november-26-2023/

  30. #1750
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    Re: TwinBASIC programming

    twinBASIC status update:

    twinBASIC Update: December 3, 2023

    Highlights include an update on "Edit & Continue" development progress, a new Auto-Save tB add-in, and the discovery of twinBASIC's potential downfall.

    nolongerset.com/twinbasic-update-december-3-2023/

  31. #1751
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    Re: TwinBASIC programming

    Quote Originally Posted by VB6 Programming View Post
    and the discovery of twinBASIC's potential downfall.
    Just a little bit of clickbait there... is this youtube?
    https://github.com/yereverluvinunclebert

    Skillset: VMS,DOS,Windows Sysadmin from 1985, fault-tolerance, VaxCluster, Alpha,Sparc. DCL,QB,VBDOS- VB6,.NET, PHP,NODE.JS, Graphic Design, Project Manager, CMS, Quad Electronics. classic cars & m'bikes. Artist in water & oils. Historian.

    By the power invested in me, all the threads I start are battle free zones - no arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign.

  32. #1752
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    Re: TwinBASIC programming

    Quote Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber View Post
    Just a little bit of clickbait there... is this youtube?

  33. #1753
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    Re: TwinBasic

    A poll asking if you would pay for a license for VB today? Or TwinBasic or RADBasic ?

    If-VB-was-still-alive-&-updated-today-would-you-pay-for-a-license-POLL

  34. #1754
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    Re: TwinBASIC programming

    twinBASIC status update:

    twinBASIC Update: December 10, 2023

    Highlights include an extended discussion on the possibility of open-sourcing some or all of twinBASIC in the future, plus a Linebreak Repair utility from fafalone.

    nolongerset.com/twinbasic-update-december-10-2023/

  35. #1755
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    Re: TwinBasic

    Thanks for these!

  36. #1756
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    Re: TwinBasic

    May I ask how to get the contents of a text file added to the twinbasic project?

  37. #1757
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    Re: TwinBasic

    Sure, just right click project name in the project explorer (the parent of all the subfolders, just above ImportedTypeLibraries), then choose Add->Import file. That allows importing any kind of file and just adds it to the project as text/plain binary if it's not a recognized type.

    For example I have several plain text files (.md is just plain text with markdown that GitHub uses) in tbShellLib:



    These can be edited right in the IDE.

    (If this isn't what you mean, please clarify)

  38. #1758
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    Re: TwinBasic

    I mean how to code to read the text file contents.

  39. #1759
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    Re: TwinBasic

    Oh, the same way you would in VB6. tB fully supports the Open syntax, or file APIs, or the FileSystemObject.

    For example,

    Code:
    Public Function LoadFile(ByVal FileName As String) As String
       Dim hFile As Long
       On Error GoTo Hell
       hFile = FreeFile
       Open FileName For Binary As #hFile
          LoadFile = Space$(LOF(hFile))
          Get #hFile, , LoadFile
       Close #hFile
    Hell:
    End Function
    Last edited by fafalone; Dec 15th, 2023 at 03:58 AM.

  40. #1760
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    Re: TwinBasic

    thx for you kind help. the other question is how to know methods/functions inside a twin package downloaded from package server.eg I loaded the CSharpishStringFormater to the project.but I do not know what methods/function inside it .

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