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Thread: The US fragile democracy Exposed

  1. #161
    PowerPoster techgnome's Avatar
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    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Here is what needs to happen tonight :
    Congress needs to reconvene as soon as they can.
    They need to finish certifying the electoral college results.
    The need to do it quickly and without objections, or challenges.
    Then they need to open a special session and invoke Article 25 and remove Trump as President.
    As POTUS, Pence then needs to then direct the secret service to quickly remove Trump from the White House.

    Long term:
    What happened today wasn't domestic terrorism, it was insurrection, pure and simple. Anyone and everyone involved in it should and must be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. This includes anyone and everyone involved in fomenting the mob redardless of who they are, their position or former position.
    This cannot, should not happen again, ever. What occured was tantamount to a near coup. It was not a protest. It was not a demonstration. It went far beyond that. It was the interference with a Constitutionally mandated process. There is no higher law in this land than that.
    Months were spent going over various video recordings after the LA riots to catch looters... Same needs to happen now. The people involved in this insurrection need to be prosecuted and held accountable for their actions. And it needs to start with their leader, Trump.

    -tg
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  2. #162

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    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Congress has convened but the last time I check they were still just making speeches about the riot. Loeffler still had the nerve to get up and say the people are upset and deserve transparency, what the hell hasn't been transparent? Glad she's gone.

    It's time to get to the job of certifying the electoral votes.

    Don't think there is any chance of of invoking Article 25. Don't think the Trump appointed cabinet members have that can of courage. But I'm all for it.

  3. #163
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    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    To her credit, Loeffler has also withdrawn her objection. We'll see whether it holds.

    There is already talk in the cabinet about Article 25, and I'm impressed to hear that some Republicans are calling for impeachment. The thing about impeachment, if it could be done in two weeks, is that it would bar Trump from ever holding federal office again.
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  4. #164
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    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    Congress has convened but the last time I check they were still just making speeches about the riot. Loeffler still had the nerve to get up and say the people are upset and deserve transparency, what the hell hasn't been transparent? Glad she's gone.

    It's time to get to the job of certifying the electoral votes.

    Don't think there is any chance of of invoking Article 25. Don't think the Trump appointed cabinet members have that can of courage. But I'm all for it.
    You don't need the cabinet for Article 25, Congress will do as well.
    Whenever the Vice President and a majority of either the principal officers of the executive departments or of such other body as Congress may by law provide, ...

    -tg

    EDIT - sorry, it's Amendment 25, not Article 25.

    EDIT 2 - Woah... now there's a turn of events.... as the Senate was doing thier Roll Call Vote CBSN reported that they've started hearing whispers that the cabinet members may be looking into invoking the 25th Amendment... I didn't see that coming... from Congress sure, from the Cabinet... not so much.
    Last edited by techgnome; Jan 6th, 2021 at 10:19 PM.
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  5. #165

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    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Thought I had heard 25th Amendment on TV but but both work for me lol.

    I don't know what type of majority it would take but I just haven't seen the Rep's have that type of backbone.

  6. #166
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    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Takes a 2/3 vote of both Houses.... not sure if that means a combined 2/3 vote, or 2/3 of the House, and 2/3 of Senate... House I think could swing it... Senate would be a tougher swing, but might be possible.

    -tg
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  7. #167
    Super Moderator dday9's Avatar
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    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    It looks like the police opened the barricades to let the "demonstrators" in: https://twitter.com/cevansavenger/st...310867968?s=21

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    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    It looks like the police opened the barricades to let the "demonstrators" in: https://twitter.com/cevansavenger/st...310867968?s=21
    Crap like that is the exact reason why I can't stand politics in general. There is no logical reason for them to have done that, and some will argue that it was pro-Trump cops that wanted the type of scene that happened today to happen, while others will argue that it was done to let the protesters in in an effort to make Trump look bad.

    There was a Far Side cartoon ages ago that showed aliens holding two astronauts in a jar with the caption of something like "Let's shake the jar and see if they fight." That's politics to me, and we're all the ones trapped in the jar.

  9. #169
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    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    There is no logical reason for them to have done that
    Some of those who work forces...

    Actually, I suspect it was pure pragmatism, they knew they couldn't prevent it. It's possible that it was collusion but I doubt it. Certainly it should be investigated, though, and if it was collusion it needs to be prosecuted to the fullest extent.
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    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    To her credit, Loeffler has also withdrawn her objection. We'll see whether it holds.

    There is already talk in the cabinet about Article 25, and I'm impressed to hear that some Republicans are calling for impeachment. The thing about impeachment, if it could be done in two weeks, is that it would bar Trump from ever holding federal office again.
    I wouldn't give her the time of day much less credit for being a rat deserting the sinking ship. She has been one of the worst of the worst when it comes to spreading all Trumps election lies. If one of the insurrectionist from yesterday said "I thought better of it so now I renounce it" after participating all night they won't get any credit from me for that.
    Last edited by TysonLPrice; Jan 7th, 2021 at 04:53 AM.
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  11. #171
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    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    It looks like the police opened the barricades to let the "demonstrators" in
    Actually, I suspect it was pure pragmatism, they knew they couldn't prevent it.
    Maybe, but the film looks pretty bad, would like to see more footage but it sure did look like there was little to no pressure and they just removed the fences. Even if they couldn't prevent the protesters you would expect them to back off but not remove barricades.
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  12. #172
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    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    Actually, I suspect it was pure pragmatism, they knew they couldn't prevent it. It's possible that it was collusion but I doubt it.
    There are two main possibilities that I can think of. Firstly, we should not forget that we have seen collusion between police and right-wingers taking the law into their own hands very recently, when police provided water for militia members and thanked them for being there in (I think) Michigan. Logically, the percentage of racists and right-wingnuts would be at least as high as in society in general, possibly higher. After all, if you could beat and kill black people and play with guns and military-grade equipment and that was your thing, why wouldn't you? There are bound to be some in the police force who would have liked to be on the other side and were sympathetic to their cause so I would not be shocked at all to learn that those officers were aiding and abetting the insurrectionists.

    That said, it looked like people were already on that terrace from the other side so those police may have decided that there was no longer anything to protect at that level. It also looked like a fairly small number of officers for a fairly wide area, so they may have decided that it was the smart move to fall back to a more defensible position.
    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    Certainly it should be investigated, though, and if it was collusion it needs to be prosecuted to the fullest extent.
    I concur. You can't see it but I'm wearing my concurring face.

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    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Faux news id a segment this morning on how did the country get to the point where there are riots in the Capitol. They blamed everybody and their brother except Trump and themselves. Two of the most guilty for the national divisions as anyone in my opinion. That coming from a network that reported the democrats were trying to use the Covid-19 outbreak to try and impeach Trump again. They have been Trump's megaphone for years now.
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    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Maybe, but the film looks pretty bad
    Yeah, I've seen more footage since I posted that and I've changed my position. Some of the officers actually posed for selfies with the rioters for Gods sake. So, yeah, there was collusion and it should be prosecuted.
    Last edited by FunkyDexter; Jan 7th, 2021 at 08:57 AM.
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    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    It's funny, if you go to thedonald.win they're all saying opening the gates and taking selfies is because these were antifa rioters in cahoots with the police to frame the Trump supporters.

    So now you can add the police force to the deep state as well.

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    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by kfcSmitty View Post
    It's funny, if you go to thedonald.win they're all saying opening the gates and taking selfies is because these were antifa rioters in cahoots with the police to frame the Trump supporters.
    Because antifa are on such good terms with the police from the BLM protests, that makes perfect sense. The lengths these people will go to to convince themselves that up is down is exhausting.

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    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    I wasn't aware of that site but... wow... just... wow.
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    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    I wasn't aware of that site but... wow... just... wow.
    I imagine that that is what's buried beneath all the years-old sh*t at the very bottom of the rabbit-hole.

  19. #179
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    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    I wasn't aware of that site but... wow... just... wow.
    It's where they went after the "thedonald" subreddit was taken down. I go there every once and a while when there is a big controversy to see how they're reacting.

    It seems the riot yesterday scared at least the mod team there... some people started claiming the mods have been compromised.

  20. #180
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    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    I wasn't aware of that site but... wow... just... wow.
    I just scrolled through a few pages...talk about an echo chamber.
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    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    talk about an echo chamber...


    talk about an echo chamber...


    talk about an echo chamber...
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    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by kfcSmitty View Post
    some people started claiming the mods have been compromised.
    Of course they did.

  23. #183
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    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    It's true. We've been corrupted by .Net and then C#
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  24. #184
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    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    We always try to compromise.
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    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    As it turns out none of it matters anyway.



    Yes, globalist neoliberalism is collapsing due to natural causes.

    So the crazies at both ends of the spectrum need to calm down. Violent protest is not only unproductive, it is fruitless.

    The "centrist" urban colonialists who have been robbing both the "left" and "right" have not and will not be able to avert the system's natural rebalancing.

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    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    At least the mods at Facebook and Twitter temporarily suspended Trump. Four years too late if you ask me.
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    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    I hate to think there was collusion from the police but, maybe. there will be an investigation. How complete and honest the results that are told to the public, who knows.

    But the building security was significantly unprepared. Why??? There was no doubt in my mind that Trump's goal would be to incite the crowd to violence. The police agencies had to know there was a good chance of a riot. Who ever is in charge of the capital security needs to explain the complete lack of preparedness. How could they not see this coming???

  28. #188
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    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    They're set in their ways?

    I heard from a researcher who watches the right wing groups who said that they were talking it up on their online channels. They had been stating that they would invade the capitol for a few days ahead of the certification. So, if nobody is watching, nobody will see. Eventually, folks have to realize that social media is a meeting room that is nearly out in the open, and where these groups are making real world decisions. It's not just talk.
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  29. #189
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    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    I hate to think there was collusion from the police but, maybe. there will be an investigation. How complete and honest the results that are told to the public, who knows.

    But the building security was significantly unprepared. Why??? There was no doubt in my mind that Trump's goal would be to incite the crowd to violence. The police agencies had to know there was a good chance of a riot. Who ever is in charge of the capital security needs to explain the complete lack of preparedness. How could they not see this coming???
    They were too busy drinking the kool-aid and attending the rally.


    -tg
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  30. #190
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    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post

    So the crazies at both ends of the spectrum need to calm down. Violent protest is not only unproductive, it is fruitless.
    Just out of curiosity: If they had been pelting the police with tomatoes, would you still call it fruitless?
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  31. #191
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    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Just out of curiosity: If they had been pelting the police with tomatoes, would you still call it fruitless?
    I don't know but if they were throwing catfish and trout I would call it fishy.
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  32. #192
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    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    There is precedence for letting people riot to "get it out of their system".

    Someone once said "For those that wished to destroy, we gave them room to destroy" when discussing the aftermath of a riot, and that was a democratic mayor, and not that many years ago.

    None of the mayors from the riot affected cities this past summer were so bold as to make such a blunt public statement, but that same MO was what was followed in many cities. Give them a night or two and hope they get it out of their system. It was only after it was clear that it wasn't going away were tangible measures taken to put a stop to it.

    So this was likely the same thing. "Let them have their tantrum" and they'll go home. Its a shame people died in the process.

  33. #193

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    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    They're set in their ways?

    I heard from a researcher who watches the right wing groups who said that they were talking it up on their online channels. They had been stating that they would invade the capitol for a few days ahead of the certification. So, if nobody is watching, nobody will see. Eventually, folks have to realize that social media is a meeting room that is nearly out in the open, and where these groups are making real world decisions. It's not just talk.
    Don't think not checking social media is a valid excuse. I don't check it but it seemed clear to me that there was a high possibility of Trumps morning rally turning violent. Why would the people in charge of capital police ignore that possibility. I'm sure securty professionals have heard the phrase, better safe than sorry.

  34. #194

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    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    So this was likely the same thing. "Let them have their tantrum" and they'll go home. Its a shame people died in the process.
    So, let a mob into the nations capital while both houses are in session. No, I would have to disagree with that approach.

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    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    But the building security was significantly unprepared. Why???
    Because the protesters weren't BLM or Antifa... you know... the dangerous anarchist types.
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    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    Because the protesters weren't BLM or Antifa... you know... the dangerous anarchist types.
    I don't believe the people in charge are that bias or ignorant. Maybe I'll be proved wrong, we'll see. Seems like a just another inflammatory statement.

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    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    I will say that opinion of the rioters yesterday does exist. Was talking to a friend yesterday just when the riot began. I said well looks like Trump got his riot, hope he's happy. My friend who constantly complained about the BLM riots, said It makes me happy. I called him out and said I thought you were against rioting. He's response was amazing, he said "not when it's good people".

    I hope this wasn't the situation with the people in charge of the capitals security.

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    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    So, let a mob into the nations capital while both houses are in session. No, I would have to disagree with that approach.
    Of course, and so do I. I was merely pointing out that that approach has been admitted "on the record" publicly in the past, and has been followed - but not so boldly admitted to - just this past summer across numerous cities.

    It was a BS approach in Minneapolis in June, and if that was the approach here, a BS approach here, and orders of magnitude more dangerous, embarrassing, idiotic, etc.

  39. #199
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    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    I don't believe the people in charge are that bias or ignorant.
    Not ignorant, institutionally prejudice. Compare the policing of Left and Right wing demonstrations over the last year. The difference is stark.

    They didn't police the Trump rally because these dangerous anarchists were their dangerous anarchists.
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    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by OptionBase1 View Post
    Of course, and so do I. I was merely pointing out that that approach has been admitted "on the record" publicly in the past, and has been followed - but not so boldly admitted to - just this past summer across numerous cities.

    It was a BS approach in Minneapolis in June, and if that was the approach here, a BS approach here, and orders of magnitude more dangerous, embarrassing, idiotic, etc.
    Your right, Seattle if perfect example.

    Just read that two arrests happened so far today. Got a feeling that ******* that was at the Senate podium and in Pelosi's office (think it was the same person) might do some real time in jail. He was smiling yesterday

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