Page 8 of 14 FirstFirst ... 567891011 ... LastLast
Results 281 to 320 of 531

Thread: The US fragile democracy Exposed

  1. #281
    PowerPoster kfcSmitty's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    2,248

    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    It's not mod-only, I have delete post when editing a post.

    I think your issue is you're trying to delete a thread. I don't think normal users can do that, even if there are no responses.

  2. #282
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    36,154

    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    That's probably it. In your test thread, add a second post and see whether you can delete that.

    Deleting the original post in a thread has more severe consequences than deleting any other post.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  3. #283
    PowerPoster
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    22,346

    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Perhaps it's based on reputation, or something more ethereal like karma.

  4. #284
    Frenzied Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2017
    Posts
    1,565

    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Can this civil discussion of the mechanics behind the ability to delete posts move to its own thread? It seems to be dissuading venomous partisanship.

    I'll try to get it back on track.

    Is a move to impeach Trump a second time good for the nation in the short term? In the long term?

    Is a move to remove Trump using the 25th amendment good for the nation in the short term? In the long term?

    My thoughts:

    There is a reason to do something even knowing ahead of time that it will fail, when it is the absolute right thing to do. I think the first impeachment of Trump was weaker than this case, but the timing on this one is obviously worse, since he's gone in 10 days.

    It's obviously a slam-dunk vote in the house since it only needs > 50%, and it will also get some Republican support in the House. I don't think it will reach 67 Senate votes, but it may come pretty close, or maybe that's just me expecting too much.

    If he's not convicted in the Senate, I'm not sure how it is received. Does it build more angst from the Left to the Right for still protecting Trump as he's out the door? Does it build more angst from hard Right to the Left for putting the nation through another impeachment that fails to reach conviction?

    It seems like a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario, because it doesn't seem like any path or outcome that I can think of results in a move back towards civility.

    25th Amendment removal. I'm 99% sure its never been used against a living president, right? I'm not sure its completely warranted, but it seems like the kind of thing where it would be nice to have a "precedental baseline" set, and this seems like a situationally opportune time for that.

  5. #285

    Thread Starter
    PowerPoster
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Modesto, Ca.
    Posts
    4,684

    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Is a move to impeach Trump a second time good for the nation in the short term? In the long term?

    Is a move to remove Trump using the 25th amendment good for the nation in the short term? In the long term?
    Yes and no. lol

    Only if it will succeed. Trump could care less if the House impeaches him. These people that have been asking him to resign must not have been paying attention the last 4yrs. Does anyone really think Trump would resign?

    I think the Rep's are missing a real chance of getting rid of Trump. If he is impeached, he can never run for federal office again. But there seems to be to much fear.

  6. #286
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    An obscure body in the SK system. The inhabitants call it Earth
    Posts
    7,703

    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    I think they should impeach but it's important to understand that it's not actually about removing Trump, it's about making an unequivocal statement about what is and isn't acceptable from a President... any President. It puts those who have quietly enabled Trump with their silence in a position where they have to publicly say that 4 years of spreading misinformation and inciting hatred is or isn't an acceptable thing for a President to do.

    I don't think the 25th amendment should be used as it will just feed the martyr narrative. The 25th was designed to allow government to continue when the President was unable to discharge his duties. It wasn't intended to allow for the removal of a President against their will and is intended to be invoked by the President himself in order to temporarily hand over his responsibilities to his Vice President. Section 4 allows for them to be removed without their consent but if you look at it's structure it's quite clear that the intention was to cover the situation where he was unable to give consent, e.g. in the case of an accident that left him in a coma.

    The correct mechanism for removing a President from office for abuse of power is impeachment and that's what should be used.
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter - Winston Churchill

    Hadoop actually sounds more like the way they greet each other in Yorkshire - Inferrd

  7. #287
    .NUT jmcilhinney's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    106,933

    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    The correct mechanism for removing a President from office for abuse of power is impeachment and that's what should be used.
    I suspect that talk of using the 25th Amendment was mainly because that could be done quickly and help avoid any crazy actions in his last days, where impeachment will take longer and may not be completed before his term ends. Not sure what happens if it's still pending at that point, i.e. whether it can be completed and he still be barred from holding future office.

  8. #288
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    An obscure body in the SK system. The inhabitants call it Earth
    Posts
    7,703

    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    I suspect that talk of using the 25th Amendment was mainly because that could be done quickly and help avoid any crazy actions in his last days, where impeachment will take longer and may not be completed before his term ends
    Yeah, I get that. It's really a pragmatism vs idealism argument and, on this occasion, I think the stakes for the future are so high that I'm opting for idealism. Honestly, though, I don't think that either option is a good one. I'd hate to have voted for idealism and then have him do something really stupid and dangerous tomorrow. My calculation is that, even if he were to give some crazy order between now and the 20th, someone in the chain of command would simply refuse, even though it was there legal duty to carry the order out. It's not a comfortable calculation though.

    whether it can be completed and he still be barred from holding future office.
    It can be and he can be. Impeachment doesn't require that the President is actually sitting and it would still be technically possible to start an impeachment against Obama today, if the Senate so chose.
    Last edited by FunkyDexter; Jan 11th, 2021 at 03:50 AM.
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter - Winston Churchill

    Hadoop actually sounds more like the way they greet each other in Yorkshire - Inferrd

  9. #289
    .NUT jmcilhinney's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    106,933

    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    I don't think that's clear at all. I'd be amazed.
    I wouldn't say that it's definite but anyone who would be amazed really hasn't been paying attention. What is clear is that Trump is a malignant narcissist. There are those that may scoff at that as name-calling or whatever but if you look at the criteria objectively, he is pretty much textbook.

    As such, there are two very good reasons that Trump would run again. Firstly, one of the traits that marks him as a malignant narcissist in the first place is his desire for adulation. He got that as president and, while he'll court it still, he won't get it at the same level now and he may want it back again. He would also want to win again to "prove" that he wasn't beaten fair and square this time.

    I think that there are two main reasons that he wouldn't run. Firstly, if he thinks that he'll get enough adulation out of politics while also benefitting in other ways - Trump TV would likely rake it in - then he may think that it's not worth the hassle, even if he would win. Secondly, while he may not even admit it to himself, he would likely be afraid of losing again. If he ran again and was beaten again, claims of fraud would carry even less weight. His current behaviour shows that, as malignant narcissists do, he simply will not admit culpability for anything. Losing a second time would make denying reality that much harder and he may simply want to avoid having to do so.
    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Trump was not elected "because he was Trump" in the first place.
    That may be true for the first time around but it's certainly not now. He's leading a cult of personality now. Left-wingers are not impervious but a central characteristic of right-wing thinking is that they identify their positions as an inherent part of themselves. It's why talking to right-wing Christians is so frustrating in comparison to left-wing Christians. They simply cannot admit to being even slightly wrong about anything because, to them, it means they must be wrong about everything and their entire personality would be lost. Trump's supporters are now indelibly supporters of Trump. No one else is going to pick up the mantle as long as Trump is around. His children may have the best hope, especially once he's gone, but it's going to be hard for anyone to really harness his supporters without actually casting themselves as his representative rather than his replacement. How many of them are claiming that he has been anointed by god, FFS?! You think that doesn't mean that they are all in on him specifically?

  10. #290
    Fanatic Member 2kaud's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    England
    Posts
    706

    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Before Trump is impeached, the legislators should consider hard that he got 70million votes in the recent election. Whether you like/hate him or agree/disagree, that is a lot of votes he got. Yes, IMO he's behaved badly, but do they want to further antagonise those who voted for him further? IMO the best action would be to isolate and ignore him.

    Similarly, the Democrats are saying they agree about Trump not attending Biden's inauguration. IMO I disagree. If Trump doesn't go then he can say that he didn't go because the ceremony is 'illegitimate' and he won't be involved in an 'illegitimate act' and that Biden isn't really president. IMO it would be far better for democracy if Trump was forced to attend and to shake the hand of President Biden as the legitimate act of power transfer. Yes, I understand because of his latest actions/tweets many don't want him there - but remember 'keep your friends close and your enemies even closer'.
    All advice is offered in good faith only. You are ultimately responsible for the effects of your programs and the integrity of the machines they run on. Anything I post, code snippets, advice, etc is licensed as Public Domain https://creativecommons.org/publicdomain/zero/1.0/

    C++20 Compiler: Microsoft VS2019 (16.10.2)

  11. #291
    .NUT jmcilhinney's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    106,933

    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by 2kaud View Post
    Before Trump is impeached, the legislators should consider hard that he got 70million votes in the recent election. Whether you like/hate him or agree/disagree, that is a lot of votes he got. Yes, IMO he's behaved badly, but do they want to further antagonise those who voted for him further? IMO the best action would be to isolate and ignore him.
    Unfortunately, I'm not sure that giving him a pass because he has a lot of supporters is the best option. That hasn't worked all that well for the Republican party so far. It looked like it was going OK but that was shown to not be the case when the sh*t hit the fan. Trump has plenty more sh*t to fling.

  12. #292
    Wall Poster TysonLPrice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Posts
    3,547

    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by OptionBase1 View Post
    Can this civil discussion of the mechanics behind the ability to delete posts move to its own thread? It seems to be dissuading venomous partisanship.

    I'll try to get it back on track.

    Is a move to impeach Trump a second time good for the nation in the short term? In the long term?

    Is a move to remove Trump using the 25th amendment good for the nation in the short term? In the long term?

    My thoughts:

    There is a reason to do something even knowing ahead of time that it will fail, when it is the absolute right thing to do. I think the first impeachment of Trump was weaker than this case, but the timing on this one is obviously worse, since he's gone in 10 days.

    It's obviously a slam-dunk vote in the house since it only needs > 50%, and it will also get some Republican support in the House. I don't think it will reach 67 Senate votes, but it may come pretty close, or maybe that's just me expecting too much.

    If he's not convicted in the Senate, I'm not sure how it is received. Does it build more angst from the Left to the Right for still protecting Trump as he's out the door? Does it build more angst from hard Right to the Left for putting the nation through another impeachment that fails to reach conviction?

    It seems like a damned if you do, damned if you don't scenario, because it doesn't seem like any path or outcome that I can think of results in a move back towards civility.

    25th Amendment removal. I'm 99% sure its never been used against a living president, right? I'm not sure its completely warranted, but it seems like the kind of thing where it would be nice to have a "precedental baseline" set, and this seems like a situationally opportune time for that.
    I was able to delete the second post. So I guess I can't delete a thread.
    Please remember next time...elections matter!

  13. #293
    Superbly Moderated NeedSomeAnswers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Manchester uk
    Posts
    2,649

    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Before Trump is impeached, the legislators should consider hard that he got 70million votes in the recent election. Whether you like/hate him or agree/disagree, that is a lot of votes he got. Yes, IMO he's behaved badly, but do they want to further antagonise those who voted for him further? IMO the best action would be to isolate and ignore him.
    Mussolini had a lot of supporters it didn't excuse his behavior. If those who voted for Trump choose to be antagonised by a situation he put himself in then they only have themselves to blame if their future actions have consequences.

    As for Impeachment while it is pretty clear that it would only pass the house and not the senate at this point, I think more than anything it would take a fair amount of Trump's focus right now which may be a good thing. The less time he has to focus on other dumb stuff the better.
    Please Mark your Thread "Resolved", if the query is solved & Rate those who have helped you



  14. #294
    .NUT jmcilhinney's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    106,933

    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by NeedSomeAnswers View Post
    As for Impeachment while it is pretty clear that it would only pass the house and not the senate at this point
    At least it would force Republican senators to pick a side, which may sow more division in the Republican party.

  15. #295
    Wall Poster TysonLPrice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Posts
    3,547

    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by si_the_geek View Post
    Time for some good news... Twitter has permanently banned Trumps account.

    I wonder what he'll do with his time now, does he still have access to the Nukes?
    Faux news is saying the radical left is denying seventy-four millions Trump supporters from communicating...I say no they aren't. They just banned one person.
    Please remember next time...elections matter!

  16. #296
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    An obscure body in the SK system. The inhabitants call it Earth
    Posts
    7,703

    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Faux news is saying...
    of course they are. I mean, they don't want it getting out that the riot was actually Antifa led... or some other made up garbage.

    Before Trump is impeached, the legislators should consider hard that he got 70million votes in the recent election. Whether you like/hate him or agree/disagree, that is a lot of votes he got. Yes, IMO he's behaved badly, but do they want to further antagonise those who voted for him further?
    I couldn't disagree more. It's exactly this line of thinking that has repeatedly enabled him and his supporters up until now. Appeasement has not helped and I don't see why that would change.

    For added salt, I've just heard a Republican Congressman saying we shouldn't impeach because he's sure Trump has learned his lesson.
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter - Winston Churchill

    Hadoop actually sounds more like the way they greet each other in Yorkshire - Inferrd

  17. #297
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    An obscure body in the SK system. The inhabitants call it Earth
    Posts
    7,703

    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    By the way. You know the footage of the single police officer that keeps backing up the stairs as the mob follows him. Apparently he was actually leading the mob away from the Senate Chambers where the Senators had been evacuated to by getting them to focus on him. When you see him get to the top of the stairs, shove the leading guy in the chest then continue backing away round the corner to the left, had they gone right, that's where the Chambers were.

    I think there's a great amount to criticise about the police but that guy is a straight up hero.

    Edit> This footage.
    Last edited by FunkyDexter; Jan 11th, 2021 at 10:02 AM.
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter - Winston Churchill

    Hadoop actually sounds more like the way they greet each other in Yorkshire - Inferrd

  18. #298
    PowerPoster techgnome's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    33,401

    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    For added salt, I've just heard a Republican Congressman saying we shouldn't impeach because he's sure Trump has learned his lesson.
    I've heard this from a couple of people... if they don't, then it normalizes the action and makes it "okay" ... and it shouldn't be. And yes, he's only got 10 more days left, "what more harm could he do?" ... Well, lots really, and possibly not much, but the long term needs to be looked at. We need to look at the post-Trump landscape. If he somehow manages to get out weasel his way out of this and doesn't get prosecuted as a result of this, not only does this tell people this is ok, but someone else far worse come along and takes advantage of it... That's the part that scares me... that this will lead to someone worse than Trump. So it needs to stop now.

    -tg
    * I don't respond to private (PM) requests for help. It's not conducive to the general learning of others.*
    * I also don't respond to friend requests. Save a few bits and don't bother. I'll just end up rejecting anyways.*
    * How to get EFFECTIVE help: The Hitchhiker's Guide to Getting Help at VBF - Removing eels from your hovercraft *
    * How to Use Parameters * Create Disconnected ADO Recordset Clones * Set your VB6 ActiveX Compatibility * Get rid of those pesky VB Line Numbers * I swear I saved my data, where'd it run off to??? *

  19. #299
    Wall Poster TysonLPrice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Posts
    3,547

    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    of course they are. I mean, they don't want it getting out that the riot was actually Antifa led... or some other made up garbage.

    I couldn't disagree more. It's exactly this line of thinking that has repeatedly enabled him and his supporters up until now. Appeasement has not helped and I don't see why that would change.

    For added salt, I've just heard a Republican Congressman saying we shouldn't impeach because he's sure Trump has learned his lesson.
    Right - Just like Senator Collins said he learned his lesson on the Ukraine call from being impeached. Fast forward to his phone call to Georgia a few days ago. Just give me 11,800 votes...
    Please remember next time...elections matter!

  20. #300
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    36,154

    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    He will be impeached a second time. That's pretty clear. The charges will then be held for a few months before being passed to the senate. That makes a whole lot of sense, too. The trial in the senate will take a fair amount of time, regardless of outcome. The procedure alone dictates that it will take a fair amount of time. There isn't time for that to happen, now, and it would be pretty bad to do so now, considering that the senate is required to stop everything else for the duration. So...let it wait till summer.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  21. #301
    PowerPoster techgnome's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    33,401

    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Legit question - If he's successfully impeached this time... I know he won't be able to hold office again, but does he also lose his pension? What else does he lose?

    -tg
    * I don't respond to private (PM) requests for help. It's not conducive to the general learning of others.*
    * I also don't respond to friend requests. Save a few bits and don't bother. I'll just end up rejecting anyways.*
    * How to get EFFECTIVE help: The Hitchhiker's Guide to Getting Help at VBF - Removing eels from your hovercraft *
    * How to Use Parameters * Create Disconnected ADO Recordset Clones * Set your VB6 ActiveX Compatibility * Get rid of those pesky VB Line Numbers * I swear I saved my data, where'd it run off to??? *

  22. #302
    Wall Poster TysonLPrice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Posts
    3,547

    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by techgnome View Post
    Legit question - If he's successfully impeached this time... I know he won't be able to hold office again, but does he also lose his pension? What else does he lose?

    -tg
    It looks like the key to it is if removed from office:

    https://www.elitedaily.com/p/do-impe...ition-19409825

    According to the Former Presidents Act of 1958, presidents who have left office are entitled to a monthly pension provided by the Secretary of Treasury as well as Secret Service protection detail to them and their family. As of 2017, the annual presidential pension was set at $207,000 (the presidential salary runs a cool $400,000). However, there's a catch. The Act clearly states that this only pertains to presidents who have not been removed from office, and explicitly defines "former president" as:

    [a person] whose service in such office shall have terminated other than by removal pursuant to section 4 of article II of the Constitution of the United States of America.
    In short, presidents who have been impeached and removed would not qualify for these benefits. But, if an impeached president manages to stay in office, he also keeps his pension.
    I don't think being impeached means he can't run again. I think the senate has to do that specifically.
    Last edited by TysonLPrice; Jan 11th, 2021 at 12:01 PM.
    Please remember next time...elections matter!

  23. #303
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    6,027

    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcilhinney View Post
    He's leading a cult of personality now.
    One other world leader comes to mind when I read this statement.

    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena


    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. -jmcilhinney

  24. #304
    .NUT jmcilhinney's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    106,933

    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    One other world leader comes to mind when I read this statement.

    Trump isn't Hitler but then Hitler wasn't Hitler to begin with. With some of his supporters outright saying that they'd die for him (although I'm sure some don't mean it and are conmen just like him) and many believing that he has been anointed by god, can we really say that a significant portion of his cult wouldn't be OK with him becoming Hitler? Despite their talk of the Constitution and government tyranny, they genuinely want him to be the president in perpetuity, effectively becoming a monarch at best and a dictator at worst.

  25. #305
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    6,027

    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcilhinney View Post
    Trump isn't Hitler but then Hitler wasn't Hitler to begin with. With some of his supporters outright saying that they'd die for him (although I'm sure some don't mean it and are conmen just like him) and many believing that he has been anointed by god, can we really say that a significant portion of his cult wouldn't be OK with him becoming Hitler? Despite their talk of the Constitution and government tyranny, they genuinely want him to be the president in perpetuity, effectively becoming a monarch at best and a dictator at worst.
    I think Americans are too close to this. As a non-American on the outside looking in, Trump and Hitler might as well be the same person. Hitler's main superpower was inspiring fanatical belief in him among stupid people. Smart people see this and realize that there are great benefits in controlling stupid people and they align themselves with Hitler to reap those benefits. Trump has this EXACT same superpower and the same thing is happening in the US right now. This is NAZI Germany all over again.
    Last edited by Niya; Jan 11th, 2021 at 12:46 PM.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena


    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. -jmcilhinney

  26. #306
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    6,027

    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Also, I'm just gonna say it. I think a civil war in the US is inevitable. If not civil war, then a series of secessions. You heard it first here folks.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena


    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. -jmcilhinney

  27. #307
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    36,154

    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    Also, I'm just gonna say it. I think a civil war in the US is inevitable. If not civil war, then a series of secessions. You heard it first here folks.
    I don't think it will happen. There's no clean geographical distinction. We'd have to further geographically segregate. That may happen, but it has not happened, yet.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  28. #308

    Thread Starter
    PowerPoster
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Modesto, Ca.
    Posts
    4,684

    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    I think they should impeach but it's important to understand that it's not actually about removing Trump, it's about making an unequivocal statement about what is and isn't acceptable from a President... any President. It puts those who have quietly enabled Trump with their silence in a position where they have to publicly say that 4 years of spreading misinformation and inciting hatred is or isn't an acceptable thing for a President to do.
    I go back and forth because I don't think it gets through the Senate, even after the new Senate is seated and this could be made it look like Dem's playing politics again. Also, if you think these Trump enabling politician are going to come out and admit they were wrong, you have more faith in their morals than I do. Nothing I've seen leads me to believe that would happen. It would take 17 Rep. Senators, unless they are just waiting till Trump is actually gone before they speak up, I don't think the numbers are there.

    It would be a beautiful thing if it happened. I hope your right.
    Last edited by wes4dbt; Jan 11th, 2021 at 03:03 PM.

  29. #309
    Wall Poster TysonLPrice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Posts
    3,547

    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    We are seeing stronger and stronger blow back from business...From the P.G.A pulling the 2022 tournament from Trump, dropping campaign contributions from the representatives and senators that were part of the coup, and one just announced (I missed the name but they were big) that they will not hire anyone to be a spokesman for them that was on the Trump team.

    Faux news is blowing a gasket and I love it.
    Please remember next time...elections matter!

  30. #310
    PowerPoster techgnome's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    33,401

    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Doesn't Trump also own the Miss USA pageant?

    -tg
    * I don't respond to private (PM) requests for help. It's not conducive to the general learning of others.*
    * I also don't respond to friend requests. Save a few bits and don't bother. I'll just end up rejecting anyways.*
    * How to get EFFECTIVE help: The Hitchhiker's Guide to Getting Help at VBF - Removing eels from your hovercraft *
    * How to Use Parameters * Create Disconnected ADO Recordset Clones * Set your VB6 ActiveX Compatibility * Get rid of those pesky VB Line Numbers * I swear I saved my data, where'd it run off to??? *

  31. #311
    PowerPoster
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    22,346

    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    L.A. Times on Trump Derangement Syndrome in 2016:

    In the advanced stages of the disease, the afflicted lose touch with reality. Opinion is unmoored from fact. Life resembles a dark fairy tale in which the villain – Trump – is an amalgam of all the worst tyrants in history, past and present, while the heroes –Trump’s critics – are akin to the resistance fighters of World War II.

    TDS victims routinely compare Trump to Hitler: Time magazine ran an opinion piece that asked “Just how similar is Donald Trump to Hitler?” The answer: “The comparison between Hitler and Trump is so poignant” because “both men represent their personal character as the antidote to all social and political problems.”
    If you ask a TDS victim what might help them feel better, they’ll use the word “normalize.” As in, we mustn’t “normalize” Trump. What they’re really saying is that normal means of dealing with him aren’t enough. Which raises the question: If he’s another Hitler, if he’s in league with Putin, then why is assassination out of the question? Poke a TDS victim and you’ll find they don’t think that “solution” is out of the question at all.

    This is the final stage of the TDS epidemic: violence against a democratically elected leader. Unless a cure for TDS is found, this is where we are headed.
    Today they'd refuse to even print that op-ed piece.
    Last edited by dilettante; Jan 11th, 2021 at 04:09 PM.

  32. #312
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    6,027

    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    I don't think it will happen. There's no clean geographical distinction. We'd have to further geographically segregate. That may happen, but it has not happened, yet.
    I don't think there was one in Rwanda either. Didn't stop them from slaughtering each other.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena


    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. -jmcilhinney

  33. #313
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    36,154

    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    I don't think there was one in Rwanda either. Didn't stop them from slaughtering each other.
    Not slaughtering each other, the larger group slaughtering the minority group. In this case, neither group is the majority group. According to Gallup, the percentage that are Republican is 25, Democrat 31, and independents make up the largest group. If the last election is any indication, only about two thirds of eligible voters bothered, and they were nearly evenly split. They're also pretty well homogenous throughout the country. There aren't really red states or blue states, just different shades of purple.

    Furthermore, the US Civil War was called a rich man's war and a poor man's fight. The rich pushed it, especially in the south. Today, the rich will not push for a civil war along any axis of contention. Nobody stands to gain economically, so nobody with any real ability will foment a fight.

    That's not to say that people without the ability to foment a civil war will NOT start a fight. That certainly happens, but the civil war they hope will follow...will not.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  34. #314

    Thread Starter
    PowerPoster
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Modesto, Ca.
    Posts
    4,684

    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    According to Gallup, the percentage that are Republican is 25, Democrat 31, and independents make up the largest group.
    What group are you talking about? That's and interesting grouping.

    L.A. Times on Trump Derangement Syndrome in 2016
    This is 2021 and they have found a cure. Vote him out of office. TDS is expected to be eradicated on Jan. 20th.

  35. #315
    PowerPoster techgnome's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    33,401

    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    This is 2021 and they have found a cure. Vote him out of office. TDS is expected to be eradicated on Jan. 20th.
    HA! That's a lie... it won't go away any more than the Corona virus went away after Nov3... There is really only one way to get rid of TDS....

    -tg
    * I don't respond to private (PM) requests for help. It's not conducive to the general learning of others.*
    * I also don't respond to friend requests. Save a few bits and don't bother. I'll just end up rejecting anyways.*
    * How to get EFFECTIVE help: The Hitchhiker's Guide to Getting Help at VBF - Removing eels from your hovercraft *
    * How to Use Parameters * Create Disconnected ADO Recordset Clones * Set your VB6 ActiveX Compatibility * Get rid of those pesky VB Line Numbers * I swear I saved my data, where'd it run off to??? *

  36. #316
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    6,027

    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Not slaughtering each other, the larger group slaughtering the minority group. In this case, neither group is the majority group. According to Gallup, the percentage that are Republican is 25, Democrat 31, and independents make up the largest group. If the last election is any indication, only about two thirds of eligible voters bothered, and they were nearly evenly split. They're also pretty well homogenous throughout the country. There aren't really red states or blue states, just different shades of purple.

    Furthermore, the US Civil War was called a rich man's war and a poor man's fight. The rich pushed it, especially in the south. Today, the rich will not push for a civil war along any axis of contention. Nobody stands to gain economically, so nobody with any real ability will foment a fight.

    That's not to say that people without the ability to foment a civil war will NOT start a fight. That certainly happens, but the civil war they hope will follow...will not.
    Well I will concede the particulars of American politics to you as I'm not a very politically savvy person. What I'm seeing is a little more visceral and raw. I see a man who's followers will burn the country to the ground without hesitation if he but commands it. And I see a man very capable and willing to give such a command. I'm not even looking at it through the lens of politics as much as everyone else is. To me it's as simple as Trump says go and they go. And the fact that he has enough followers to turn the tide of an election means he has enough followers to do some serious damage and I mean serious. Like grind the entire country to a halt serious.
    Last edited by Niya; Jan 11th, 2021 at 11:04 PM.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena


    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. -jmcilhinney

  37. #317
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    An obscure body in the SK system. The inhabitants call it Earth
    Posts
    7,703

    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    I don't foresee a civil war but I do foresee widescale rioting, assassination attempts and acts of domestic terrorism.

    I see a man who's followers will burn the country to the ground without hesitation if he but commands it. And I see a man very capable and willing to give such a command.
    Yeah, I see those too. What I don't see is his followers having the level of impact that would lead to actual civil war.

    Never say never, though. It would not be inaccurate to call these guys an armed militia. A significant number are ex-military and, have no doubt, they've been giving training to rest. There has been a concerted (and well documented) effort from the far right to infiltrate the military and police services since the late 80s. They succeeded and we're seeing the payload of that playing out now.
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter - Winston Churchill

    Hadoop actually sounds more like the way they greet each other in Yorkshire - Inferrd

  38. #318
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    6,027

    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    I don't foresee a civil war but I do foresee widescale rioting, assassination attempts and acts of domestic terrorism.

    Yeah, I see those too. What I don't see is his followers having the level of impact that would lead to actual civil war.

    Never say never, though. It would not be inaccurate to call these guys an armed militia. A significant number are ex-military and, have no doubt, they've been giving training to rest. There has been a concerted (and well documented) effort from the far right to infiltrate the military and police services since the late 80s. They succeeded and we're seeing the payload of that playing out now.
    I think a civil war is inevitable or at least some level of sustained domestic terrorism. However, it doesn't have to happen today. Trump tapped into something. It's something that has existed for a long time now. But what he showed is that it could be mobilized to do some real damage. Trump gave a blue print on how to mobilize that base he tapped. It's only a matter of time before a future leader takes it to the next level. If you want to know exactly what Trump tapped into I recommend you spend a couple hours on 4Chan.org/b/ and Stormfront.org. I've known about this base for years but until the Trump presidency, I had no idea these people could have been tapped to actually makes things happen. I thought they were all bark and no bite, content to just talk nonsense online. Until the recent attacks in the Capitol, I had no idea just how dangerous these people truly were. Mark my words, someone is going to rile them up again in the future.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena


    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. -jmcilhinney

  39. #319

    Thread Starter
    PowerPoster
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Modesto, Ca.
    Posts
    4,684

    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    Quote Originally Posted by techgnome View Post
    HA! That's a lie... it won't go away any more than the Corona virus went away after Nov3... There is really only one way to get rid of TDS....

    -tg
    If I wanted to lie to you it wouldn't be so obvious. Hope we're both being sarcastic.

  40. #320
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Posts
    6,027

    Re: The US fragile democracy Exposed

    In less than a minute I was able to find this thread on Stormfront. Pay carefully attention to the rhetoric. These people are just waiting for someone to fire them up. They have been aching for a civil war for as long as I was aware of them. It is inevitable. Trump is just a first step.
    Last edited by Niya; Jan 12th, 2021 at 04:14 AM.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena


    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. -jmcilhinney

Page 8 of 14 FirstFirst ... 567891011 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  



Click Here to Expand Forum to Full Width