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Thread: Presidential Debates

  1. #1

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    Presidential Debates

    Let me say up front that I wont be watching. I put no stock in what they say.

    But I've been wishing that Biden wouldn't even engage with Trump in a debate. I don't see it benefiting him and I see it as a possible way for Trump to gain ground. Not that Trump is an eloquent speaker, he has the vocabulary of a 5th grader. But he is an unconscionable liar and is willing to say anything. These debates will just give him a platform to use those skills to his advantage. Biden has no chance in a lying contest.

    My thought is that at least 90% of the people have made their minds up already and there is no reason to think that Biden wouldn't get his fair share of the undecided. I didn't watch the Trump/Clinton debates but in the highlights that I saw Trump was pacing around behind her, making snide remarks during her responses. She should of told him to get his fat ass back on his side, but she didn't. I just don't see how Biden, even if he fights as dirty as Trump, has much to gain.

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    .NUT jmcilhinney's Avatar
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    I'm inclined to agree. Given that these debates pretty much always happen, it could hurt Biden to refuse to engage in them. The question is whether it will hurt him more to engage. One of Trump's biggest assets is that he's a showman and he will use that to his advantage in televised debates and his own lack of useful policies won't be too much of a factor. There are certainly at least two things that you can be sure of in those debates: Trump will lie unabashedly and his supporters won't care. The question is whether the undecided voters will care. If his lies haven't turned them off so far, I'm not sure they they would at that stage.

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    Re: Presidential Debates

    I agree. I think Biden's got everything to lose and very little to gain. I think JM's right though, he can't sidestep the debates. At this point they're pretty much viewed as a fundamental part of the political process (even if not actually constitutionally so).

    I do think there are 2 things to be optimistic about.
    1. I think Trump was considerably sharper in 2016 than he is now. Some of his recent interview, even with Fox, have been disastrous. Check out the recent one where he starts talking about "people in the darkness" controlling Biden. What People? People you don't know, but people, dangerous people. It's full on conspiracy theorist rambling and it's genuinely weird to listen to. I think anyone outside his hardcore base would be completely turned off by it. This time round I think there's a small but very real chance that he'll say something so crazy that he hangs himself.
    2. I don't think Hilary Clinton was at all prepared for how low Trump was willing to go in the 2016 debates. Biden's got the luxury of knowing what he's going to face and can strategize for it. I hope his strategy isn't to try and out Trump Trump but I think he can be more prepared with some pithy responses to Trump's behaviour than Clinton was.
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    Biden already knows he has to go in wearing his FACT CHECKER Hat.... I believe he will attempt to ridicule Trump right then and there.... Shouldn't be hard.

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    Re: Presidential Debates

    I think the outcome depends almost entirely on turnout. Most people have long ago made up their minds: restore and embolden duopolitan globalist warmongering or keep on pushing it back into the sulfurous place from which it came. Many who want the latter won't be able to bring themselves to vote for Trump, so they'll abstain. Others with hands not quite so dainty will roll up their sleeves and do the hard work again.

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    Re: Presidential Debates

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    I think the outcome depends almost entirely on turnout. Most people have long ago made up their minds: restore and embolden duopolitan globalist warmongering or keep on pushing it back into the sulfurous place from which it came. Many who want the latter won't be able to bring themselves to vote for Trump, so they'll abstain. Others with hands not quite so dainty will roll up their sleeves and do the hard work again.
    Rofl... "with hands not quite so dainty"... You're literally making the argument "real men vote Trump!"

    Seriously.. You don't bring up any points, you just insult those who aren't doing what you want.

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    Re: Presidential Debates

    Cheer up. Maybe they'll change the rules to let Hillary and Mitt up on the stage with him to coach him. Or will he debate from a desk in his basement with them hiding underneath to whisper to him?

    I'm not sure what you think "points" are. Biden's Crime Bill support? Prison industry support? His lies about supporting Civil Rights? His support for one foreign war of aggression after another? His support for Delaware-based corporations and the extremely limited liability for their actions? His backing of NAFTA, deindustrialization, and austerity? His stratospheric support on Wall Street? His coldness to the plight at Standing Rock? His shady personal deals in Ukraine and China exploiting his public office? His promotion of misery by winking at illegal immigration so his backers can undermine wages and abuse the resulting low-wage workers? His desire to dramatically increase the number of foreign worker visas? His history of support for cutting Social Security and Medicare? His slimy record with women and children? Bounced on his lap recently? Rubbed his hairy legs, have you? Has he sniffed your hair? We don't even need to get started on his senility. And then there's that laughable running mate of his.

    Biden supporters don't want him to debate. They know it'll expose more people to what he really is. They know about everything on the short list of points I just made. They don't care. They just want them swept under the rug.

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    Re: Presidential Debates

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Cheer up. Maybe they'll change the rules to let Hillary and Mitt up on the stage with him to coach him. Or will he debate from a desk in his basement with them hiding underneath to whisper to him?

    Biden supporters don't want him to debate. They know it'll expose more people to what he really is. They know about everything on the short list of points I just made. They don't care. They just want them swept under the rug.
    Alright! Something with substance, finally! However, don't confuse me being annoyed at your constant "higher than thou" attitude to me being grumpy or in need of cheering up. I just don't like seeing people write flippant remarks constantly.. you come off as an a-hole. How very "right" of you again, though, to instantly pull out the "emotional" card on someone right out of the gate.

    I don't disagree with either of the above 2 points, but lets get going:

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    I'm not sure what you think "points" are. Biden's Crime Bill support? Prison industry support? His lies about supporting Civil Rights? His support for one foreign war of aggression after another? His support for Delaware-based corporations and the extremely limited liability for their actions? His backing of NAFTA, deindustrialization, and austerity? His stratospheric support on Wall Street? His coldness to the plight at Standing Rock? His shady personal deals in Ukraine and China exploiting his public office? His promotion of misery by winking at illegal immigration so his backers can undermine wages and abuse the resulting low-wage workers? His desire to dramatically increase the number of foreign worker visas? His history of support for cutting Social Security and Medicare? His slimy record with women and children? Bounced on his lap recently? Rubbed his hairy legs, have you? Has he sniffed your hair? We don't even need to get started on his senility. And then there's that laughable running mate of his.
    Crime bill: I suggest you read this for more information: https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...-incarceration. While I don't necessarily agree with the bill itself, things aren't as black and white as you seem to think.

    You need to get out of your echo chamber if you think NAFTA was some huge point that if someone supports makes them something evil. Here is a quick breakdown of the main pros and cons of the agreement, which was agreed upon by all parties and was a major step for North America. Believe it or not, sometimes countries make concessions to work with allies. https://www.thebalance.com/nafta-pros-and-cons-3970481

    Ukraine has been beaten to death. It is the "Russia collusion" of Biden. That video going around of him bragging? Has nothing to do with his son, and there was an investigation already done about it. https://theintercept.com/2019/09/25/...y-upside-down/

    About illegal immgration. Skip to the "Joe Biden" part if you want to read about it. Believe it or not, democrats aren't for "illegal immigration", they're just against the way trump is handling it. https://www.latimes.com/politics/sto...gration-policy

    His lies about supporting civil rights? He actively supports the Equality Act. If you want to go into the past, you can find a ton of questionable remarks about trump as well. People care about what they're going to do, not about stuff that happened 50 years ago. Here is a list of discrimination against the LGBTQ community by the current administration as well: https://transequality.org/the-discri...administration . Obviously a biased source, but you can verify any point on the list you want.


    Here is a list for you for Trump:

    - He wants to bring back coal. How backwards is that? He is solely focused on the ensuring the economy looks good and doesn't care that it is setting things back dozens of years to accomplish it.
    - He has hurt almost every alliance the US has with his "us first" mentality.
    - His constant lying and lack of filter via Twitter -- you don't have to go far to see his posts about QAnon or anything else.
    - Talking about shady deals, why hasn't he released his tax returns? He demanded Obama's birth certificate, what is he trying to hide?
    - His continued acts to try and divide the country. He has no interest to sit down and talk with anyone, he only cares about getting a witty remark in and to prove how tough he is
    - His authoritarianism -- you can see it with how he handles the protests and riots. He threatens violence whenever he can.
    - His constant removal of environmental acts meant to protect the environment
    - His denial of global warming
    - His hiring of "only the best" people and then firing them later when they disagree with him
    - He actively called the whistleblower a traitor. Seriously? You can't think he did something wrong without him calling for your head
    - His constant remarks downplaying the pandemic

    Since you want to go to the "creepy" route

    - "Grab her by the *****"
    - Sexual conduct allegations: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald...ct_allegations


    I can go on and on, but this is just stuff I thought of off the top of my head. You won't get any argument from me that either candidate is a good choice, but you need to stop parroting your echo chamber when it comes to stuff like Ukraine or that the dems want to "give illegals your money!"

    If you hear the following, you need to re-evaluate who you're listening to:

    - They'll turn the country communist!
    - They want to give your money away!
    - They're going to take your guns away!
    - They'll start wars all over the world!
    - They'll give our country to foreigners!


    They're all BS that is simplifying a stance they don't agree with, trying to get people with their clickbait catchphrases like "duopolitan globalist warmongering" that mean literally nothing.
    Last edited by kfcSmitty; Sep 2nd, 2020 at 01:04 PM.

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    Re: Presidential Debates

    Oh, you wanted things to shout down. Well I figured that was what you were after.

    Seriously, I can't stand to look at Trump. I don't like the sound of his voice, his clumsy way of speaking, or his despicable personality.

    But I believe it speaks volumes that the crooks of both parties oppose him. Trump is the first pain the duopoly has felt in 40 years. That's an accomplishment in itself. If you think there is much difference between these two parties I don't know what to tell you. There is a reason why Kasich, Romney, Molinari, Powell, and a long list of other GOP illuminaries are backing Biden.

    The only real question is why would you?

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    Re: Presidential Debates


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    PowerPoster kfcSmitty's Avatar
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    The only real question is why would you?
    Because the damage being done by Trump is too great and is setting the country back on a global and environmental scale decades. It has effects on Canada too.

    But, again, luckily for me I don't have to vote, because I do not know whether I could vote for Biden or Trump.

    Also, since when is posting counter-points and differing opinions "shouting down"? Seriously, no wonder you're so convinced of your opinions, if anyone challenges you on them, they're either shouting at you, bullying at you, or some combination.
    Last edited by kfcSmitty; Sep 2nd, 2020 at 02:09 PM.

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    Re: Presidential Debates

    I'd watch a Trump/kfc debate. lol

    You guys are probably right, the blow back for not debating could be bad. I can hear all the names Trump would be calling Biden. But it would be fun to hear Biden say something like, there will be no debates, you can't have a meaningful debate with a proven habitual liar, I will not provide him a platform so he can tell his lies and divide Americans.

    I just saw they have picked the moderators. I don't know about the C-Span guy but the other two seem to have a strong bias. I've never paid attention before, is this normal. I'd think they should have a neutral moderator. Maybe that's not even possible now a days.

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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    The only real question is why would you?
    Because Biden would be better than Trump.

    I'm not thrilled with Biden, but I've been appalled by Trump since the 80s, when he was a Democrat, and he hasn't done anything to change my mind. I don't agree with your belief in some duopoly. You do appear to be consistently opposed to globalization, and considering where you live, that might come with the territory. I don't share that opinion. Every economic choice has winners and losers. Globalization does and anti-globalization does. Overall, I'd say I'm on the side of the winners with globalization, though I'm probably near the border between gain and loss on that one. Still, I can't find it in me to get too exercised about it. These days, I can't find it in me to get too exercised, period. Wish I dared go to the gym, once again...but that's gotten off track.

    Trump will damage the US permanently. He has opened the door for a level of corruption in high office that we have never allowed before, and gotten one of our two parties to be complicit. Whether anybody more mercenary then passes through the door, or whether the door gets shut again first, remains to be seen. He opened it, though.
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    When I read you, it reminds me the election of 2000 between bush and Al Gore. I was in Florida for a few days just before the election days and a journalist on tv said " that's marvelous, this year we will have to chose between a bad one and a "not good" one". Which surprised me a lot at that time.

    We have the same thing in France: Our politicians are so bad that extreme right arrive always on the second tour of election, of course the candidate (whoever he/she is and as good or bad he/she is) in front of the Extreme right candidate will win as everybody will vote against the extreme right. So the choice is made on the first tour. You have 4 serious candidates with about 20% and a few with a few % so in fact the president has the confidence of only 20% of the population (his party) with a 10-20 % of people not from his party but close enough to agree with a few ideas. So it makes 60 to 70% of the population who are not and will never be pleased.

    It seems these days, the choice is not between a good president and a a bad president but a choice of the least worst. It is kind of scary, no?
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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    I'm not sure how scary it really is. For one thing, there are about 365 million people in the US, which means that there are about 378 million different opinions (yeah, I meant that number). Do we really expect that anybody will match our views perfectly? It isn't likely.

    Furthermore, as somebody who participated in actual Town Hall democracy (we gathered in the fire station, as the town hall didn't have the room, at the time), I'd have to say that there is a significant percentage of the population that wants something that is clearly not good for them, and which they'd be pretty upset with if they got it. They don't know this, though, and will staunchly advocate for it right up until they get it, at which point they'll forget they had ever supported it once they realize how badly it turned out.

    I can tell a story about that, but I'll leave it out.

    The point is that there are loads of different desires, and a fair percentage of those desires are misguided. Therefore, a leader who actually advocates for the desires of a majority of the people is not likely to exist, and if they do, a fair portion of their supporters will become disillusioned pretty quickly if they were to get what they said they wanted.

    So, we go for somebody who is closer to what we want than some other person. Then everybody pulls on every string they have to the extent of their ability, and what comes out is some kind of averaging that isn't even what the person who was elected wanted to do. That means that everybody ends up somewhat disillusioned, but they shouldn't be. The alternative is FAR worse for everybody. That's the nature of democracy.
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    The only real question is why would you?
    To be frank, the the fact that you would ask that question just shows that you haven't been listening and, therefore, asking the question is disingenuous. The answer has been provided by many different people in many different places: because Trump is worse. You may have a different opinion, i.e. you may not think that Trump is worse, but to simply ignore the fact that many people do hold that opinion and, rather than wanting Biden, are prepared to put up with him to get rid of Trump is just dishonest.

    It seems to me that there are two major schools of thought for those who lean significantly left in America right now:

    1. Trump is too bad to put up with any further so vote for the Democratic nominee, whomever that may be, and continue to try to push the Democratic party to the left from the inside by supporting sitting members and candidates at all levels of government who are progressive.

    2. If Biden wins then the Democratic party will take that as validation of their establishment position and will not move left so the only way to achieve change is to withdraw support and let them lose, so eventually they realise they need to actually give some ground to progressives to regain that support and have a chance of winning.

    I can see pros and cons in both positions. I'm not American so the point is moot but, if I was, I would have voted for Bernie Sanders in the Democratic primary but would still hold my nose and vote for Biden in the general. I think that Biden is a bad candidate but I think that he's better than Trump and that's why I would vote for him. Is that simple enough to understand? I think that progressives are making ground in the Democratic party and my hope is that they will continue to do so and that, eventually, progressive policies will win out because the majority actually support them, rather than people like Pelosi and Biden deigning to compromise because they are afraid of losing power themselves.

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    .NUT jmcilhinney's Avatar
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    For the record, a number of my issues with Trump relate not to things that he specifically supports but to things that he accepts in order to get elected. The one that stands out most to me is the subject of abortion. It has been said many times that Trump is the most pro-life president ever and I think that that's complete tosh. I don't think that Trump is pro-life or anti-choice at all. I don't think that he's pro-choice necessarily either though. I think that it's one situation where his narcissism is a good thing in that the issue doesn't affect him directly so he doesn't really care. He realised early on that his best chance to win was to pander to the Christian right though, and a big part of that is taking a pro-life stance. It shows just how corrupt and cartoonish much of the Christian right is, that many are outright claiming that Trump is a gift from god, but they are so used to their leaders lying to them and swallowing the bullshit whole that they just eat up blatant lies like "no one loves the bible more than me". I fear that, if Trump gets another term and continues to appoint judges, it may come to pass that abortion becomes illegal in much, if not all, of America.

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    Re: Presidential Debates

    I think that it's one situation where his narcissism is a good thing in that the issue doesn't affect him directly so he doesn't really care. He realised early on that his best chance to win was to pander to the Christian right though, and a big part of that is taking a pro-life stance. It shows just how corrupt and cartoonish much of the Christian right is, that many are outright claiming that Trump is a gift from god, but they are so used to their leaders lying to them and swallowing the bullshit whole that they just eat up blatant lies like "no one loves the bible more than me"
    This type of situation has had me baffled and also very disappointed. How a man that has been unfaithful in all his marriages, has a long history of dishonesty, hell is even on tape saying he likes to assault women by just grabbing their crouches, how does he get so much Christian support??? Also, I didn't think he would get one vote from a woman, but I was way off.


    I want to ask this one more time because I'm really curious,

    I just saw they have picked the moderators. I don't know about the C-Span guy but the other two seem to have a strong bias. I've never paid attention before, is this normal. I'd think they should have a neutral moderator
    Last edited by wes4dbt; Sep 3rd, 2020 at 07:42 PM.

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    .NUT jmcilhinney's Avatar
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    This type of situation has had me baffled and also very disappointed. How a man that has been unfaithful in all his marriages, has a long history of dishonesty, hell is even on tape saying he likes to assault women by just grabbing their crouches, how does he get so much Christian support???
    To be frank, it just shows how corrupt religion can be. The Christian right are lied to by their leaders all the time so why should Trump be any different?

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    Re: Presidential Debates

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    This type of situation has had me baffled and also very disappointed. How a man that has been unfaithful in all his marriages, has a long history of dishonesty, hell is even on tape saying he likes to assault women by just grabbing their crouches, how does he get so much Christian support??? Also, I didn't think he would get one vote from a woman, but I was way off.


    I want to ask this one more time because I'm really curious,
    Here is a summary of what he says to them at rallies:

    "Over the next hour, the message was that theirs was a power Trump would heed — and heed more than any other president. He would end the contraception mandate of Obamacare (“We’re getting rid of Obamacare anyway”); he would select only anti-choice judges (“And this president could choose, I mean, it could be five”); he would do away with the Johnson Amendment, which prohibits tax-exempt entities from endorsing politicians (“Wouldn’t it be nice if you could actually go and say, ‘I want Donald Trump’?”); he would support prayer in school (“I saw the other day a coach was giving a prayer before a football game, and they want to fire the coach now!”); he would oppose any bill that pulled funding from Christian schools that were charged with discrimination (“I can only tell you that if I’m president, it will be vetoed, OK?”); he would keep transgender people from using the “wrong” bathrooms and locker rooms (“We’ll get it straightened out”); and he would protect Israel, following the biblical pronouncement that nations that do so would be blessed (“[Obama’s] been the worst thing that’s happened to Israel; I was with Bibi Netanyahu the other day, and he said he can’t even believe it”). In other words, when it came to religious liberty as the attendees defined it, he would make sure that America was on the right side of God."

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    Re: Presidential Debates

    Quote Originally Posted by TysonLPrice View Post
    Here is a summary of what he says to them at rallies:

    "Over the next hour, the message was that theirs was a power Trump would heed — and heed more than any other president. He would end the contraception mandate of Obamacare (“We’re getting rid of Obamacare anyway”); he would select only anti-choice judges (“And this president could choose, I mean, it could be five”); he would do away with the Johnson Amendment, which prohibits tax-exempt entities from endorsing politicians (“Wouldn’t it be nice if you could actually go and say, ‘I want Donald Trump’?”); he would support prayer in school (“I saw the other day a coach was giving a prayer before a football game, and they want to fire the coach now!”); he would oppose any bill that pulled funding from Christian schools that were charged with discrimination (“I can only tell you that if I’m president, it will be vetoed, OK?”); he would keep transgender people from using the “wrong” bathrooms and locker rooms (“We’ll get it straightened out”); and he would protect Israel, following the biblical pronouncement that nations that do so would be blessed (“[Obama’s] been the worst thing that’s happened to Israel; I was with Bibi Netanyahu the other day, and he said he can’t even believe it”). In other words, when it came to religious liberty as the attendees defined it, he would make sure that America was on the right side of God."

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    Re: Presidential Debates

    No answer to my moderator question. Looks like I'm not the only only who doesn't watch the debates.

    Well it look like I need to take jmc's advise and read the documentation for the PresidentialDebate Class. lol

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    Re: Presidential Debates

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    I just saw they have picked the moderators. I don't know about the C-Span guy but the other two seem to have a strong bias. I've never paid attention before, is this normal. I'd think they should have a neutral moderator. Maybe that's not even possible now a days.
    Neutral might be a pretty big ask. Fair and honest might be the best one might hope for until the League of Greater Magellanic Voters offers somebody.

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    Hyperactive Member Delaney's Avatar
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    Well it look like I need to take jmc's advise and read the documentation for the PresidentialDebate Class. lol
    I think this class has been coded in Malbolge...
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    No worries for a Biden debate, his endorsements alone will make him great!



    Perhaps they'll have a seance to bring forth endorsements from Reagan and Nixon too.

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    Re: Presidential Debates

    So I've gotta disagree with people who think the debates won't be positive for Biden.

    Trump has been pushing hard with the narrative that Biden is senile and completely incoherent. But if you've ever actually listened to the both of them, Trump is clearly wayyyy further down the road to incoherence than Biden. And believe me, during the primaries, I wished Biden was as senile as people say, so that Bernie could have trounced him. But I had to admit, Biden absolutely held his own in the primary debates and the 1 on 1 against Sanders, and I had to concede that he wasn't quite as far gone as I thought or hoped.

    So Trump is already trying to backtrack and claim Biden isn't totally senile at all, but it's because he's on drugs. Which is obviously more projection, given how wildly Trump's energy fluctuates as he sniffles nonstop and blows white chunks out his nose with people from his Apprentice days talking about how he snorted Adderall.

    No one's base is changing their mind at this point, but I think putting them side by side speaking will help Biden by having anyone who's even a little bit honest realize that reports of Biden's dementia have been greatly exaggerated, especially next to the rambling gibberish of Trump.

  27. #27
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    You've got a good point there. I would go further by saying that all the talk about how bad Biden is at debating is setting the bar quite low. That's very much in his favor. If everybody expects you to be spectacular, then you had better be, which nobody can guarantee. If everybody expects you to be mediocre, then all you have to be is okay and everybody will think you knocked it out of the park.

    With Trump trying to run down Biden, he kept lowering the bar. I think he may be realizing that he'll lose any debate as long as Biden isn't drooling on himself, because that's where he set the bar. So, now he has to try to make Biden sound better, which is going to be mighty hard for him to do. He can only flatter and insult. If he does the former, then he's campaigning for Biden. If he does the latter, then...he's helping Biden.
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  28. #28
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    Biden's got it made. The media just need to show his prominent supporters clapping for his responses. John Kasich, Mitt Romney, Colin Powell, Carly Fiorina, Cindy McCain (wife of the writer of Biden's favorite tune "Bomb, Bomb Iran"), Charlie Dent, Rick Snyder (famous for his beloved Flint Water, now with more lead!), Bill Weld, 100 McCain 2008 staffers, 30 Romney 2012 staffers, 73 former Republican administration national security officials, and on and on. The list of illuminaries gets bigger every day.

    Yes, featuring his elite backers under the public eye should do wonders for his campaign.

  29. #29
    Super Moderator dday9's Avatar
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    Perhaps it is my youth talking but I don't see how anyone can be all out Trump or all out Biden, they're both terrible.

    I've already made up my mind that I'm voting for Jorgensen in November, but then again I live in a deeply red state that is probably going to go for Trump in the double-digits.

    Like wes4dbt, I won't be watching the debates. I'll just get the highlights from the memes that come out of the debates and just assume that they will both say something incredibly stupid.

  30. #30
    PowerPoster kfcSmitty's Avatar
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    Like wes4dbt, I won't be watching the debates. I'll just get the highlights from the memes that come out of the debates and just assume that they will both say something incredibly stupid.
    Only reason I want to watch the first debate is to see how Biden holds up. As mentioned before, I don't even get to vote, I am just curious to see if his mental decline is real or not.

  31. #31
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    It's a bit late for debates. Ballots have already been sent out to many people, got mine last week.

  32. #32
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    It's a bit late for debates. Ballots have already been sent out to many people, got mine last week.
    I don't understand why you find this objectionable. In the UK we send out all ballots in advance. If people choose to send their vote in early that's their prerogative, it doesn't invalidate their vote.

    It would be pretty dumb to send out the ballots at the last minute when postal delays could effectively disenfranchise people who disagree with you... oh wait... I think I get it.
    You can depend upon the Americans to do the right thing. But only after they have exhausted every other possibility - Winston Churchill

    Hadoop actually sounds more like the way they greet each other in Yorkshire - Inferrd

  33. #33
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    Still, he has a point, if the rationale isn't all that great: In this election, there may be fewer people on the fence than in any past election. I don't feel that presidential debates are all that useful to begin with, but in this particular election they are even less useful than otherwise would be the case.

    That's not true of state and local elections, though. In most states, it is FAR more likely that those debates will influence voters simply because a whole lot of the candidates are not as well known. For the same reason, primary debates are probably useful, as well.

    Of course, if you're lucky enough to live in Idaho, you WANT the state and local debates because there is never enough comedy on the air. I totally LOVE the state level debates in this state!! They put ANY and EVERY candidate on the stage together, and we have some of the strangest, wildest, candidates that ever ran for office.
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  34. #34
    Super Moderator dday9's Avatar
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    Idaho's local elections are wild man. I did a bit of research a few months back because y'all's ballot access laws are relaxed compared to many other states.

  35. #35
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    We had the guy who said, in the debate, that he had "a masters degree in raising hell." I believe he was a candidate for governor. He was more reasonable than a lot of the people. I remember a congressional seat race where the guy who had changed his legal name to "Right to Life" was to the left of half the (many) people on the stage.

    I just LOVE our debates!! There is nothing too outrageous to be said in one of them.
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    Hard to imagine any fence-sitters remain out there.

    As Biden-Harris pick up more endorsements like Romney, Snyder, Palpatine, and Vader who oppose the Rebellion it might drive a few more to stay home/throw their mailed ballots away, vote for chanceless 3rd party candidates, etc. Chances are low this would get them to support Trump.

    But I doubt debates matter much. The "nowhere else to go" Biden voter is not going to be turned off by another display of dementia or lectures on what it means to be black.

    Down-ballot debates might be more interesting. There are a lot of CIA-in-Iraq alumni on Congressional ballots again. In reality though most of them just cruise in on the coattails via straight-ticket voting, which still goes on in states where ballots don't let you just tick one box any more.


    Perhaps Star Wars isn't the best analogy though. Maybe Trump is more of a "Billy Butcher" figure opposing Biden's "Homelander" and Hillary's "StormFront." I can see Homelander letting kids rub his hairy legs.

  37. #37
    .NUT jmcilhinney's Avatar
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Hard to imagine any fence-sitters remain out there.
    That's because it's always those who are not fence-sitters that we hear from all the time. Try a bit harder to imagine that people who don't think like you exist and you'll have a far more accurate picture of the world. There may well be fewer fence-sitters this time around than ever before but if it's hard to imagine any then then that's indicative of a lack of imagination.

  38. #38
    Super Moderator dday9's Avatar
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    ..., vote for chanceless 3rd party candidates, ...
    • The Libertarian ticket garnered 4,489,341 votes or 3.28% in 2016
    • Perot got 18.9% in 1992 and 8.4% in 1996
    • Ralph Nader is wildly considered the spoiler in 2000


    3rd party candidates have played an important part in American politics, especially at the national level. These were just some of the important events that happened in the past 30 years.

    While the candidates themselves may not win, their results certainly shift the narrative and force politicians to pay attention to their voters.

  39. #39
    Wall Poster TysonLPrice's Avatar
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    While the candidates themselves may not win, their results certainly shift the narrative and force politicians to pay attention to their voters.
    Is that what the republicans and Kanye West are doing?

    https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2...ning-for-prez/
    Please remember next time...elections matter!

  40. #40
    Super Moderator dday9's Avatar
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    I'm glad you have a good idea on what Kayne is doing. Sometimes I think that not even Kayne knows what Kayne is doing.

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