Page 6 of 8 FirstFirst ... 345678 LastLast
Results 201 to 240 of 294

Thread: Presidential Debates

  1. #201
    PowerPoster
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    24,482

    Re: Presidential Debates

    That sounds clever until you realize Flat Earth is a Biden policy.

  2. #202
    Super Moderator jmcilhinney's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    110,297

    Re: Presidential Debates

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    That sounds clever until you realize Flat Earth is a Biden policy.
    If you're not even going to try to make sense then I'd sooner you just went back to ignoring my posts. If you're not going to back up your claims either way then I'd sooner not waste my time reading nonsense.

  3. #203
    PowerPoster
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    24,482

    Re: Presidential Debates

    Pots and kettles, pots and kettles.

  4. #204
    Super Moderator jmcilhinney's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    110,297

    Re: Presidential Debates

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Pots and kettles, pots and kettles.
    Except not. You made a claim, I told you why you were wrong and, rather than backing up your claim, you opted for nonsense. I guess now "you're just as bad" is all you've got. I'd just like to hear some justification for the original claim. That's too hard, apparently.

  5. #205
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    38,988

    Re: Presidential Debates

    I'd like to see some justification for a YouTube video, as well. The rate at which voter fraud conspiracy theories are popping up on social media means that you pretty much can't be relying on them for anything...aside from supporting the butt hurt side of things. Why even bother with them? Come up with something that is backed up by a reputable source.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  6. #206
    Super Moderator jmcilhinney's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    110,297

    Re: Presidential Debates

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    I'd like to see some justification for a YouTube video, as well. The rate at which voter fraud conspiracy theories are popping up on social media means that you pretty much can't be relying on them for anything...aside from supporting the butt hurt side of things. Why even bother with them? Come up with something that is backed up by a reputable source.
    I watched a Sky News Australia video on YouTube and one of the panelists actually had the temerity to claim that the Biden campaign were trying to discredit Trump now so that if he were to win as a result of recounts they could claim for the next four years that he stole the election, as though he hasn't been doing that but worse for months now. Some Trump supporter even commented on that video that if you repeat a lie enough times it becomes true, completely without irony. The lack of self-awareness is beyond staggering.

  7. #207
    PowerPoster
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    24,482

    Re: Presidential Debates

    Be the first on your block to sport Biden Wear

    Name:  BidenSuit.jpg
Views: 395
Size:  24.2 KB

    Register now for this government issued "Last Suit You'll Ever Wear"

    Great for putting out California wildfires for $1.00/day.

  8. #208
    PowerPoster kfcSmitty's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    2,248

    Re: Presidential Debates

    Lol

    People on the right: We want open discussion! This is a fraud! I believe this!
    Response from the left: I don't believe you, post your sources!
    People on the right: Troll memes

  9. #209
    PowerPoster
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    7,219

    Re: Presidential Debates

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    I'd like to see some justification for a YouTube video, as well.
    ...Why even bother with them?
    Well, at least (for me) there's a few which sum up the whole craziness of the last days perfectly:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuBMobE50tY

    Just you wait, till all those "Angels from Africa" will show up, I tell ya...

    Olaf

  10. #210
    PowerPoster
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Posts
    24,482

    Re: Presidential Debates

    The problem with "sources" is that nobody accepts them or there wouldn't be anything to discuss. "Sources" are obfuscated and nearly lost in the cacophony of corporate media propaganda.

    You don't accept my sources, I laugh at your sources, he sniffs at her sources, she sets fire to their sources, and on it goes.

    I am sure there is an objective reality out there somewhere. But we know Trump saw large gains with females, backs, Latinos, and Asians. Even Comcast/NBC admits that. So then how has Biden gotten more votes than even Obama?

    Could it be true? Sure. But where's the beef? I guess we'll have to wait for the recounts.

  11. #211
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    38,988

    Re: Presidential Debates

    But also, where's the fraud? At this point, the right is claiming fraud because they didn't get what they want. They can't point to anything but aggregate values, some of which everybody knew were coming, such as the fact that COVID was becoming partisan to the point that everybody expected absentee ballots to skew strongly Democrat. Now that it happened, they suggest that was fraud. Others seem to think that the fact that electronic machine counts on the day of voting are much faster to tabulate than mail in votes which have a manual component is somehow surprising. It isn't. Some states, such as PA didn't allow the tallying of mail in votes until the day of the election. Some states allowed pre-compilation of those ballots. The results of the polls follow exactly what people would expect: A quick lead for Biden as some suburban and urban precincts report...something, followed by a strong surge for Trump as the rural precincts report, followed by a slower move back towards Biden as the larger, urban, precincts report in followed by the mail in ballots. The pattern did just that in every swing state that I'm aware of.

    So where is the fraud? At this point, the only thing they can point to is how the aggregate numbers changed, which seem to be doing exactly what any rational person would expect if they had even a moderate knowledge of how vote tabulation works in different states (each state is allowed, and required, to set it's own process).

    What they need to do, is show how the mechanism of fraud worked. That they can't do, because once they get into the details of what would be required, the story gets increasingly absurd. It would require the active collusion of numerous people, many of whom are Republicans, along with the impressive stupidity on the part of the conservative poll watchers to miss what would have to be happening under their noses, and ALL of it would have to be kept a secret only revealed by conspiracy theorists on social media, but not by ANYBODY else, including Fox News.

    They don't have a mechanism because there isn't one. They didn't get the results they wanted, so it HAS to be fraud, even though they don't have a mechanism. The polls predicted a much larger victory for Biden, so the polls were badly wrong in Trump's favor, yet even with that, the loss that every poll was predicting HAS to be fraud. It's an absurd position. It's a particularly absurd position for anybody who works with data technology to take. There's nothing there that we wouldn't expect, even from people with the best of intentions, so why is anybody surprised?
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  12. #212
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    38,988

    Re: Presidential Debates

    I guess you could also add: Why is anybody so shocked that vote tallies and breakdown don't follow that of 2016 or either Obama election?

    Just a guess: This was the most divisive election in any of our memories. Trump was the most polarizing candidate in any of our memories. I would expect the vote totals to be higher for that reason. I would expect skewing to be different for those reasons.

    Ultimately, Obama won two elections. In the first one, he was running against the very unpopular W. Sure, W wasn't actually on the ticket, but we were all around at the time. The economy was in the toilet, and that was the legacy that McCain got to run on. He was a personable fellow, but he was dealt a bad hand. Were throngs of people coming out for Obama? Yeah, some, but since people tend to vote against somebody, and the Republicans were dispirited in that election, as was the country, the people voting FOR Obama shouldn't have been as large as those voting AGAINST Trump. That's just how things work in this country.

    In the second Obama election, it was a popular, though polarizing, incumbent against a bland, milktoast, opponent as the economy was climbing steadily out of the Great Recession. It's not an election that should have brought out all that many on either side.

    So...yeah, I would expect this election would draw more people than any of the last five. Since I didn't predict that ahead of time, I'm not going to claim any special clairvoyance, but I didn't state that prediction because nobody asked. Had the question come up, I would have said that I definitely expected Biden to get more votes than Obama. I was only surprised at how well Trump did.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  13. #213
    Smooth Moperator techgnome's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    34,531

    Re: Presidential Debates

    MY favorite quote comes from a friend: If the Democrats truly are using voter fraud and stealing the election, how come they let the Republicans take over the House and maintain the Senate?

    If you're going to cheat, cheat big, take the Senate, the House, and the White House, right?

    plplplplease...

    -tg
    * I don't respond to private (PM) requests for help. It's not conducive to the general learning of others.*
    * I also don't respond to friend requests. Save a few bits and don't bother. I'll just end up rejecting anyways.*
    * How to get EFFECTIVE help: The Hitchhiker's Guide to Getting Help at VBF - Removing eels from your hovercraft *
    * How to Use Parameters * Create Disconnected ADO Recordset Clones * Set your VB6 ActiveX Compatibility * Get rid of those pesky VB Line Numbers * I swear I saved my data, where'd it run off to??? *

  14. #214
    Wall Poster TysonLPrice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Posts
    3,834

    Re: Presidential Debates

    FAUX news is already turning on Trump...talk about eating your children
    Please remember next time...elections matter!

  15. #215
    Super Moderator jmcilhinney's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    110,297

    Re: Presidential Debates

    Quote Originally Posted by TysonLPrice View Post
    FAUX news is already turning on Trump...talk about eating your children
    It's worth remembering that Fox were not Trump fans at the outset. While certain hosts may be Trump fans, the network as a whole have basically been pandering to him and his supporters all this time. That's not to imply that various other cable news outlets are much, if any, better. Fox pretty much knew that they had to side with Trump or he would turn on them and we have seen exactly that on a number of occasions when they removed their collective tongue from his *sshole in order to take a breath. That they seemed to do so with such relish is a bit of a concern though, and when I say "a bit", I mean that it shows them to have no principles at all. I've heard talk that Trump may be going to create his own TV news network, possible using OANN as the bones, and will steal various Fox presenters who are genuinely loyal to him. That's speculation at this point but it certainly wouldn't surprise me. A schism on the right wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing for Democrats and the left but, with John Kasich already trying to blame progressives for Biden not winning in a landslide, there's a schism looming on the left too.

  16. #216
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    38,988

    Re: Presidential Debates

    Well, there is talk that he might do something like that, but as one person pointed out: Trump doesn't like to use his own money to launch things. More likely, he'd sell his brand to some existing group.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  17. #217

    Thread Starter
    PowerPoster
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Modesto, Ca.
    Posts
    5,195

    Re: Presidential Debates

    More likely, he'd sell his brand to some existing group.
    He has done that for years. Some of these companies stole millions from people, they supposably had purchased Trump property condo's. Of course he took no responsibility, just the money.

  18. #218
    Super Moderator jmcilhinney's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    110,297

    Re: Presidential Debates

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    Of course he took no responsibility, just the money.
    He takes full responsibility. It's not his fault.

  19. #219
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    An obscure body in the SK system. The inhabitants call it Earth
    Posts
    7,900

    Re: Presidential Debates

    Trump doesn't like to use his own money to launch things.
    He could probably crowd fund it. I wish I was joking.
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter - Winston Churchill

    Hadoop actually sounds more like the way they greet each other in Yorkshire - Inferrd

  20. #220
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    38,988

    Re: Presidential Debates

    You certainly aren't joking. I'm on the mailing list. Leading up to the election, Trump campaign mail was probably >50% of all mail I received. Since the election, it has dropped way back, but now it's directly asking for money. It isn't clear to me what happens to campaign donations raised after the campaign has lost the election. If Trump gets to keep it, he's going to keep raising money for years.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  21. #221
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    An obscure body in the SK system. The inhabitants call it Earth
    Posts
    7,900

    Re: Presidential Debates

    I'm fairly sure he doesn't get to keep campaign donations (I saw an article about it) though whether a donation can be considered a "campaign" donation after election day seems pretty sketchy. I do think you can expect to see him seeking personal donations though. And I've no doubt he'll receive them.

    Whatever you think about him as a President, he's a damned effective salesman.
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter - Winston Churchill

    Hadoop actually sounds more like the way they greet each other in Yorkshire - Inferrd

  22. #222

    Thread Starter
    PowerPoster
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Modesto, Ca.
    Posts
    5,195

    Re: Presidential Debates

    Whatever you think about him as a President, he's a damned effective salesman.
    Yeah, "Trumps Quality Used Cars" would probably be a success. lol

    I understand why people would donate to his campaign but seeking personal donations???? He says he has billions. Maybe Mike Bloomberg would take pity on the poor little beggar.

  23. #223
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    38,988

    Re: Presidential Debates

    He may or may not have billions, but he's ALWAYS wanted more.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  24. #224
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    An obscure body in the SK system. The inhabitants call it Earth
    Posts
    7,900

    Re: Presidential Debates

    And I honestly think his followers would be prepared to give it to him. It wouldn't be the Bloombergs, though. It'd be his grass roots supporters who can barely afford to pay the rent. It's a weird thing, the less people have got the more of it they're willing to give to something they think is worthy (and his followers do believe he's worthy). Normally that's kinda heart warming. In this case... not so much.
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter - Winston Churchill

    Hadoop actually sounds more like the way they greet each other in Yorkshire - Inferrd

  25. #225
    Super Moderator jmcilhinney's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    110,297

    Re: Presidential Debates

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    It isn't clear to me what happens to campaign donations raised after the campaign has lost the election.
    It's my understanding that the Trump campaign is specifically asking for $60-million for legal challenges to the election result. I would not be shocked to learn that all this posturing about election fraud was specifically so that he could ask for money to fight it in court that he then had a plan to embezzle for himself. It seems fairly clear that Trump doesn't care how much destruction he has to cause for his own gain.

  26. #226
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    38,988

    Re: Presidential Debates

    I'd guess that it's for his own gain, as well. He has a track record there. His charitable organization was forced to shut down once it was revealed that he was the recipient of the charity.

    And just so that's not an unsourced statement:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald...ts%20directors.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  27. #227

    Thread Starter
    PowerPoster
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Modesto, Ca.
    Posts
    5,195

    Re: Presidential Debates

    And just so that's not an unsourced statement:
    I'm not going to start showings sources. If 70,000,000 people can believe that what Trump says is correct and true, then I don't think it's to much for the people on this forum to accept that EVERYTHING I say is correct and true. I'm always right, if you don't believe me then just ask me. Let's Make VBForums Great Again!!!!!!!

  28. #228

    Thread Starter
    PowerPoster
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Modesto, Ca.
    Posts
    5,195

    Re: Presidential Debates

    On a much darker note,

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tru...ection-results

    This guy is just going to try and set this county on fire. In the end he will still lose, I hope, but a lot of damage is going to be done.

  29. #229
    Super Moderator jmcilhinney's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    110,297

    Re: Presidential Debates

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    On a much darker note,

    https://www.foxnews.com/politics/tru...ection-results

    This guy is just going to try and set this county on fire. In the end he will still lose, I hope, but a lot of damage is going to be done.
    That he would want to do that says it all really. If he had evidence of voter fraud then he would just present it to the appropriate courts, he would win and that would be that. He doesn't have evidence though, so all he can do is stir the pot even further so that, when he inevitably loses these challenges, he can point to yet another American institution - the courts - and convince his sycophants that they're against him and they should not be trusted either. Trump really has no care for the lasting damage he causes, as long he gets the adulation he craves from enough people. Never has a narcissist been more malignant.

    Then again, another member told us that Trump was just giving his supporters time to cool down so that they didn't do anything regrettable. I'm sure that this is just another part of that plan... because that makes sense.

  30. #230
    PowerPoster yereverluvinuncleber's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    Norfolk UK (inbred)
    Posts
    2,235

    Re: Presidential Debates

    New system, new country, new politics, new people, start again please and this time don't feck it up.

  31. #231
    Wall Poster TysonLPrice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Posts
    3,834

    Re: Presidential Debates

    Quote Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber View Post
    New system, new country, new politics, new people, start again please and this time don't feck it up.
    That is a fantasy...Trump and his twitter account aren't going anywhere. He'll keep his base all stirred up and that is a lot of people. If the democrats don't get the senate, which is still up for grabs, Mitch McConnel will do the exact same thing he was doing these last two years. Allow absolutely no democratic initiatives on the floor. Faux news is alive and well so they will keep Trump and his propaganda alive and well. Covid-19 is just exploding across the US and Trump will spend the next few months ignoring it like he has been all along. Tens of thousands of people are going to needlessly die because of him. As of this morning that moron is refusing to concede the elections and continuing to fan flames of discord across the country. They, the GAO, are even refusing to release the Biden transition funding.

    Maybe come January things will look up...until than we are going to be in a dark place for awhile. Trump is still the president!
    Please remember next time...elections matter!

  32. #232
    Superbly Moderated NeedSomeAnswers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2002
    Location
    Manchester uk
    Posts
    2,660

    Re: Presidential Debates

    Maybe come January things will look up...until than we are going to be in a dark place for awhile. Trump is still the president!
    Cheer up, Trump despite his childish inability to admit that he lost a fair election will be gone soon enough.

    Well done the US, maybe over here in the UK we will eventually follow your lead and vote out our incompetent government, it's just a pity that our next election is so far away although that gives Boris plenty of time to cock it all up further.

    That is a fantasy...Trump and his twitter account aren't going anywhere
    I read that Trump will lose his protection of holding public office for Twitter which means they can now suspend and even close his account for the repeated false statements and those that incite violence.

    It will be interesting to see that play out and you wonder what effect it will have if he can't spew his thoughts on to the internet anymore?
    Please Mark your Thread "Resolved", if the query is solved & Rate those who have helped you



  33. #233
    Wall Poster TysonLPrice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Posts
    3,834

    Re: Presidential Debates

    plenty of time to cock it all up further
    If I had posted that I might have gotten a moderator warning
    Please remember next time...elections matter!

  34. #234
    Smooth Moperator techgnome's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2002
    Posts
    34,531

    Re: Presidential Debates

    Looking ahead... here's what I see:
    1) Trump will begin the news circuit railing against the system. That's assuming anyone will listen to him and/or invite him on. Sadly he's not going to just fade into the background like other previous Presidents.
    2) In 4 years... he will try to run again. I'm hoping the Republicans will be wiser this time and not invite him to the dance.
    3) This will cause him to try to run as an independent, or possibly as some kind of third-party: Trumplican would be my guess.
    4) This will have a dual-effect on things. 1) It will shine a much needed light on third-party candidacies... 2) He will suck off so much of the Republican base that it becomes a major factor in the Dem's re-election.

    -tg
    * I don't respond to private (PM) requests for help. It's not conducive to the general learning of others.*
    * I also don't respond to friend requests. Save a few bits and don't bother. I'll just end up rejecting anyways.*
    * How to get EFFECTIVE help: The Hitchhiker's Guide to Getting Help at VBF - Removing eels from your hovercraft *
    * How to Use Parameters * Create Disconnected ADO Recordset Clones * Set your VB6 ActiveX Compatibility * Get rid of those pesky VB Line Numbers * I swear I saved my data, where'd it run off to??? *

  35. #235
    PowerPoster PlausiblyDamp's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2016
    Location
    Pontypool, Wales
    Posts
    2,458

    Re: Presidential Debates

    Quote Originally Posted by TysonLPrice View Post
    That is a fantasy...Trump and his twitter account aren't going anywhere.
    Not till January, after that he will no longer get special treatment as a world leader - hos account will be treated like any other private individual's apparently which could result in it being suspended and deleted if he continues to break the rules.

  36. #236
    Junior Member wossy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2020
    Posts
    26

    Re: Presidential Debates

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcilhinney View Post
    He doesn't have evidence though
    He didn't find it on the golf course then?
    On the bright side, I've still got pessimism and despair to fall back on.

  37. #237
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    38,988

    Re: Presidential Debates

    He kept chipping away at it, and puttering around, but....I just can't think of where to go from here....in which case, I have that in common with Trump.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  38. #238
    Super Moderator jmcilhinney's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Location
    Sydney, Australia
    Posts
    110,297

    Re: Presidential Debates

    Quote Originally Posted by wossy View Post
    He didn't find it on the golf course then?
    It seems unthinkable that he wouldn't, right? It's the first place I'd look.

  39. #239
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    An obscure body in the SK system. The inhabitants call it Earth
    Posts
    7,900

    Re: Presidential Debates

    If I had posted that I might have gotten a moderator warning
    It's weird policing language as a mod because the social norms are different on either side of the pond. The seriously wrong words are pretty universal but some of the words I've seen our US mods say are ok would probably be slightly over the line in the UK ad, I imagine, vice versa. Also, the usage matters. Saying "to cock up" is a common enough phrase in the UK to be considered fine. Applying that word as a direct insult to someone would probably stray just over the line though - unless one were implying that someone is a chicken.

    Anyway, Big Poppa T is already claiming that the vaccine announcement was deliberately held back to hurt his election campaign.

    Edit> By the way, are the remaining states still coming in? I'm kinda curious as to what the final score turns out to be but I haven't seen the score move from 279/214 since the results were declared. I assume the remaining votes still get counted and the states announced don't they?
    Last edited by FunkyDexter; Nov 10th, 2020 at 03:48 AM.
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter - Winston Churchill

    Hadoop actually sounds more like the way they greet each other in Yorkshire - Inferrd

  40. #240
    Wall Poster TysonLPrice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Posts
    3,834

    Re: Presidential Debates

    Quote Originally Posted by PlausiblyDamp View Post
    Not till January, after that he will no longer get special treatment as a world leader - hos account will be treated like any other private individual's apparently which could result in it being suspended and deleted if he continues to break the rules.
    I don't believe that for a second...its about money. Look what Trump has done for Twitter just in name recognition and advertising. If they had any sense of morality or conscience they would have exercised it a long time ago. That they did it because he is a world leader is just BS. That was going on before he was even elected.
    Please remember next time...elections matter!

Page 6 of 8 FirstFirst ... 345678 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  



Click Here to Expand Forum to Full Width