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Thread: Presidential Debates

  1. #241
    Superbly Moderated NeedSomeAnswers's Avatar
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    If I had posted that I might have gotten a moderator warning
    It's weird policing language as a mod because the social norms are different on either side of the pond.
    Saying "to cock up" is a common enough phrase in the UK to be considered fine.
    Exactly its a pretty harmless phrase in the UK, I would have said much worse if I had been trying to invoke the Mods !!


    By the way, are the remaining states still coming in? I'm kinda curious as to what the final score turns out to be but I haven't seen the score move from 279/214 since the results were declared.
    Well, I have been seeing 290 / 214 which includes Arizona for Biden.

    It looks like North Carolina Voted for Trump so that 15 extra for him and they won't assign Georgias to Biden until after the recount but even so that will be 16 to Biden, so the number should finalise as 306 - 229
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  2. #242
    Wall Poster TysonLPrice's Avatar
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    Trump won't let Biden get the daily security briefings...I don't know why...he doesn't read them.
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  3. #243
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    Quote Originally Posted by TysonLPrice View Post
    Trump won't let Biden get the daily security briefings...I don't know why...he doesn't read them.
    That's why. Who KNOWS what might be in there?
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  4. #244
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    Edit> By the way, are the remaining states still coming in? I'm kinda curious as to what the final score turns out to be but I haven't seen the score move from 279/214 since the results were declared. I assume the remaining votes still get counted and the states announced don't they?
    You may see 279/214, or 290/214, depending on whether or not the source is one that has called Arizona for Biden. Some places, such as the AP and Fox, called AZ for Biden early on, but since then the lead has been shrinking. The AP is sticking with the call, and it's certainly looking like they will be right. While subsequent votes have favored Trump, they haven't favored him by anywhere near the margin he'd need to flip the state.

    The really odd one, to me, is that Alaska hasn't been called. I realize it's a huge state with a very sparse population, but Trump has nearly a 2:1 lead, and everybody expects it to go for him to begin with. California was called for Biden as soon as the polls closed, and that call has been born out (though CA only has 90% reporting at this point), since Biden will win the state by about 2:1. So, why hasn't Alaska been called, yet? It's only three electoral college votes, but the outcome is obvious to everybody, as far as I can tell.
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  5. #245
    Superbly Moderated NeedSomeAnswers's Avatar
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    The really odd one, to me, is that Alaska hasn't been called.
    Aha Alaska that why my number looks odd, I didn't realize it hadn't been called, apparently they have only counted some 58% of the votes even now which looks like they just gave up counting halfway through, and also probably why it hasn't been called yet.

    If we add Alaska to Trumps column then we end up with

    306 - 232
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  6. #246
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    The dogsleds haven't arrived, yet.
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  7. #247
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    Quote Originally Posted by NeedSomeAnswers View Post
    Aha Alaska that why my number looks odd, I didn't realize it hadn't been called, apparently they have only counted some 58% of the votes even now which looks like they just gave up counting halfway through, and also probably why it hasn't been called yet.

    If we add Alaska to Trumps column then we end up with

    306 - 232
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    The dogsleds haven't arrived, yet.
    Well we are headed into the winter season where days are short... so maybe the days are too short and there isn't enough whale oil for lamps to keep counting after sunset.... which means,they get, what, 5 hours of daylight?


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  8. #248

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    Re: Presidential Debates

    Yeah, Arizona is acting strange. Probably be a recount, Biden has 14,700 (.4%) lead that is declining. But they only have been counting a few, very few, votes a day.

    I was worrying about the courts reversing the decision in Pa. to count the votes that came in after election day but were posted marked by election day. Turns out there were very few, I saw an estimate of 8,000. Biden leads by 45,000 so no problem. Also, that a .7% win, which means there's no need for a recount.

    I saw an interview with Anthony Scaramucci and he felt the same as some of you, this whole fighting the election is a ploy to grift money from people, mainly because of the large campaign debt.

  9. #249
    Junior Member wossy's Avatar
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    What is Alaska like to live in? Are the summers rainy and dismal and cold? Sounds like paradise.
    On the bright side, I've still got pessimism and despair to fall back on.

  10. #250
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    Quote Originally Posted by wossy View Post
    What is Alaska like to live in? Are the summers rainy and dismal and cold? Sounds like paradise.
    Depends on the part you're in. I spent a couple weeks in Sitka, which is along the inner channel islands... 14 days... 10 rain... but it wan't always a heavy rain. It varried bewteen torrential dounpours to drizzle. Didn't stop us from going kayaking, hiking or swimming though. The ton sells t-shirts that read "Annual Sitka Rain Festival: Jan 1 - Dec 31" The couple of days where there was nothing falling out of the sky were really great. One of those days there was no ships due in port (it's a stop for many cruise ships).... so the town blocked the streets and had a mini-impromptu sun party.

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  11. #251
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    That's interesting. I always assumed that States (at least officially, not so much by the TV networks) weren't called until it became mathematically impossible for a candidate to lose. E.g. there are 1000 votes remaining uncounted and Trump leads by 1001 - call it for Trump. From what you guys are posting they call it in advance of that? Is the bar more of a "it seems obvious what the result is going to be"?
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  12. #252
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    That's interesting. I always assumed that States (at least officially, not so much by the TV networks) weren't called until it became mathematically impossible for a candidate to lose. E.g. there are 1000 votes remaining uncounted and Trump leads by 1001 - call it for Trump. From what you guys are posting they call it in advance of that? Is the bar more of a "it seems obvious what the result is going to be"?
    I read something about this a while back. Different entities have different criteria and it will also depend on a state. For instance, if Trump was already down in a state and the only ballots yet to be counted were from counties that were historically blue, that state might well be called for Biden. Of course nothing is official until it's official, as we can see Arizona swinging back towards Trump after it was called for Biden in a few places. I'm fairly sure that states don't make an official call until all ballots have been counted.

  13. #253
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    That English phrase used earlier accurately describes the American political system from top to bottom:

    https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dic...nglish/cock-up

    ANY of the alternatives listed would equally apply.

    a dog's breakfast
    another/the final nail in the coffin
    bomb
    brain freeze
    busted flush
    car crash
    foul-up
    free fall
    game over
    hash
    lemon
    lost cause
    lulu
    mess
    slush pile
    train wreck
    turkey

  14. #254
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    That English phrase used earlier accurately describes the American political system from top to bottom:

    https://dictionary.cambridge.org/dic...nglish/cock-up

    ANY of the alternatives listed would equally apply.

    a dog's breakfast
    another/the final nail in the coffin
    bomb
    brain freeze
    busted flush
    car crash
    foul-up
    free fall
    game over
    hash
    lemon
    lost cause
    lulu
    mess
    slush pile
    train wreck
    turkey
    Funny I don't see it as any better or worse than many other western democracy's including our own in the UK.

    Yes, it has its peculiarities but much of the current apparent problems are from one side just refusing to accept the result which is fairly unprecedented and is more a reflection of Trump himself than the political system.
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  15. #255
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    Depends on the part you're in. I spent a couple weeks in Sitka, which is along the inner channel islands... 14 days... 10 rain... but it wasn't always a heavy rain. It varried bewteen torrential dounpours to drizzle. Didn't stop us from going kayaking, hiking or swimming though. The ton sells t-shirts that read "Annual Sitka Rain Festival: Jan 1 - Dec 31"
    Well we are headed into the winter season where days are short... so maybe the days are too short and there isn't enough whale oil for lamps to keep counting after sunset.... which means, they get, what, 5 hours of daylight?
    Surely they can count the votes of all 50 people who choose to live in such conditions in a week
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  16. #256
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    If only we had a system like the UK, where they put on a regular Punch and Judy show while London bankers and merchants run it.

  17. #257
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    If only we had a system like the UK, where they put on a regular Punch and Judy show while London bankers and merchants run it.
    Yes, you are quite correct, it would unimaginably, be a lot better.

  18. #258
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    That's interesting. I always assumed that States (at least officially, not so much by the TV networks) weren't called until it became mathematically impossible for a candidate to lose. E.g. there are 1000 votes remaining uncounted and Trump leads by 1001 - call it for Trump. From what you guys are posting they call it in advance of that? Is the bar more of a "it seems obvious what the result is going to be"?
    Everybody can use a different rule. Until the state certifies the result, it isn't official, but since that doesn't have to happen for a few more weeks (I think the deadline is early December), nobody wants to wait that long. Most outlets are following the AP, which is considered to be a very conservative call, which doesn't mean that they call everything for the conservatives. My understanding is that they have polls going into the election, then do exit polling to see how the actual voting matches up with the original polls. If it doesn't match well, then you have to wait for the outcome. If it DOES match well, but the polls suggest it will be very close, then you also have to wait for the outcome. If it does match and there is a strong bias in one direction, then you can call it very early.

    Waiting for the outcome just means waiting until enough votes are in that there is no reasonable expectation that it will flip back. Thus far, they have been completely correct in their calls this year. No state that was called has flipped back. AZ is the only one that is kind of close, but even then, Trump was never getting enough new votes to flip the result. The state is now reporting 99% and there is still a fair lead for Biden.

    One article written sometime yesterday suggested there were about 60,000 votes left to count, so you can figure out what percentage has to vote for Trump to swing the state. He hasn't been hitting that percentage, in which case, the call was correct, if not very comfortably so.
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  19. #259
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    which doesn't mean that they call everything for the conservatives
    Ruddy Left Wing Media!! He was right all along!!!
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  20. #260
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    "Rudder left wing media"

    Aye, cap'n!
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    Re: Presidential Debates


  22. #262
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Everybody can use a different rule. Until the state certifies the result, it isn't official, but since that doesn't have to happen for a few more weeks (I think the deadline is early December), nobody wants to wait that long. Most outlets are following the AP, which is considered to be a very conservative call, which doesn't mean that they call everything for the conservatives. My understanding is that they have polls going into the election, then do exit polling to see how the actual voting matches up with the original polls. If it doesn't match well, then you have to wait for the outcome. If it DOES match well, but the polls suggest it will be very close, then you also have to wait for the outcome. If it does match and there is a strong bias in one direction, then you can call it very early.

    Waiting for the outcome just means waiting until enough votes are in that there is no reasonable expectation that it will flip back. Thus far, they have been completely correct in their calls this year. No state that was called has flipped back. AZ is the only one that is kind of close, but even then, Trump was never getting enough new votes to flip the result. The state is now reporting 99% and there is still a fair lead for Biden.

    One article written sometime yesterday suggested there were about 60,000 votes left to count, so you can figure out what percentage has to vote for Trump to swing the state. He hasn't been hitting that percentage, in which case, the call was correct, if not very comfortably so.
    It's kinda funny (in a sad way) that Trump said that it wasn't fair that there was no result on election night but, now that the result basically is known, he's saying that everyone should wait longer. It's almost as though he just wants it done in whatever way favours him most.

  23. #263
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    I'm curious: If, in 4 weeks when this is all over, it ends up with Biden winning, would you concede there was no mass voter fraud and the election was legit? Or will you maintain that it was stolen?

    I didn't watch the whole thing, but it seems the first 10 seconds shows some outdated information: https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/17/u...n-results.html it seems they did end up backing down on holding out.

    Also, from what I can tell from /r/conservative and other subreddits, isn't NewsMax the place right-wingers are flocking because Fox News wasn't right-wing enough for them?

  24. #264
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    NewsMax? Really? They're basically Fox News but without the credibility.

    he's saying that everyone should wait longer
    I've heard lots about it being a way to con his supporters out of donations etc. but I don't think it's that. I've reached the conclusion that Trump is pathologically incapable of accepting defeat. Not just in this, but in life generally and he'll warp reality to fit his world view. I'll be surprised if the CIA need to drag him out... but not that surprised.
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    NewsMax? Really? They're basically Fox News but without the credibility.

    I've heard lots about it being a way to con his supporters out of donations etc. but I don't think it's that. I've reached the conclusion that Trump is pathologically incapable of accepting defeat. Not just in this, but in life generally and he'll warp reality to fit his world view. I'll be surprised if the CIA need to drag him out... but not that surprised.
    And he isn't going to go away...he still has the republican party cowering in his shadow. He will still be a carnival barker but without the mantle of the presidency. I guess he gets to keep the title though. That in itself is a statement about the decline of the United States under him and his republican sycophants.
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  26. #266
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    N

    I've heard lots about it being a way to con his supporters out of donations etc. but I don't think it's that. I've reached the conclusion that Trump is pathologically incapable of accepting defeat. Not just in this, but in life generally and he'll warp reality to fit his world view.
    Why can't it be both?

    I get the fundraising emails from the Trump campaign. That was the VAST majority of my spam in the week leading up to the election. It dropped to nearly nothing for a few days after the election, but by now, it is back to the level it was at just before the election. He's basically asking for donations at the same rate he was prior to the election. He may have enough debts that he needs to keep raising funds, to0. After all, he never spends his own money when he can spend that of somebody else.
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  27. #267
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Why can't it be both?

    I get the fundraising emails from the Trump campaign. That was the VAST majority of my spam in the week leading up to the election. It dropped to nearly nothing for a few days after the election, but by now, it is back to the level it was at just before the election. He's basically asking for donations at the same rate he was prior to the election. He may have enough debts that he needs to keep raising funds, to0. After all, he never spends his own money when he can spend that of somebody else.
    I'm not unhappy that his followers are flushing money down the toilet but it's a shame that he gets to benefit from it.

  28. #268
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    I'm curious as to how much he's raising. I don't believe he has to report that, now that the elections are over. However, I will boldly predict that his fundraising activities will end up in court.
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  29. #269
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    I'm curious as to how much he's raising. I don't believe he has to report that, now that the elections are over. However, I will boldly predict that his fundraising activities will end up in court.
    He's got to do something...they closed down his charity
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  30. #270
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    Which also ended up in court, hence my prediction.
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  31. #271
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    Why can't it be both?
    Oh, both can absolutely be in play but I think the root cause of his failure to leave is narcissism. The cash grab is opportunism and would be happening whether he left or not.
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  32. #272
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    That seems like a fair interpretation of events.
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  33. #273
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    I read a non-fiction book called "Is Paris Burning?" many, many years ago. The gist of it is Hitler knew he was losing France and he wanted Paris burned to the ground. The General in charge refused to do it. Trump wants the presidency and everyone against him burned to the ground also. It is going to be a long sixty some days.
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  34. #274
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    it is also a very good movie.
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  35. #275
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    The turkey thing was fun though.
    On the bright side, I've still got pessimism and despair to fall back on.

  36. #276
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    When they resurrected dinner? Or was that a different movie....?
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  37. #277
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    The turkey was named Paris ?
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  38. #278
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    I just heard a commentator say Trump is the only President to lose the popular vote twice

    I'm still not convinced that he won't find a way to upset the election. He is a criminal at heart and nothing will stop him. Especially the republicans.
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  39. #279
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  40. #280
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    Re: Presidential Debates

    Republicans? Oh, those people who supported Joe Biden. Like Mitt Romney, "Flint Lead" Snyder, John Kasich, and so many more.

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