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Thread: WHO needs to get it together

  1. #1

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    WHO needs to get it together

    The WHO doesn't seems to know what they are talking about. Over and over they have changed their answers on the virus, how infectious, spread by surfaces and now if it's airborne. They also seem to be playing politics. To me the current leadership seems incompetent. I'm not for pulling out of the WHO and I realize this is a new virus but this is not the first new virus they have come across. They seem scared and feel they have to give an answer even if it's just a guess. They haven't been able to stand their ground and just say we don't know and then provide guidance using what they've learned in the past. My vision of the WHO is one leadership, not placating world leaders. I realize those leaders hold the purse strings but as it stands the WHO is ineffective at best, maybe harmful at worst.

  2. #2
    PowerPoster kfcSmitty's Avatar
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    Re: WHO needs to get it together

    I can't remember where I read it, but the WHO has been stating things like "we have no proof of it being airborne," which people take as the WHO saying "it isn't airborne!," but what it really means is "we don't have enough data, so we aren't able to definitively say."

    Something about it being the scientific wording that the media is playing with vs conversational meaning.

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    Fanatic Member Delaney's Avatar
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    Re: WHO needs to get it together

    Hum , just to be sure....

    World Health Organization or White House Office ?
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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: WHO needs to get it together

    World Health Organization, in this case.

    I'm inclined to agree with everyone, so far. If they say they don't know, they get pilloried for it. If they take their best guess, that guess is reported as fact.

    I would expect them to change their position repeatedly on this one, since knowledge is moving fairly fast. Past viruses are not all that good an indication. The closest past virus that I'm aware of is SARS, or possibly MERS (not sure which could be considered the closest), but those two were radically different in important ways. SARS made you sick before you were infectious, so it was relatively easy to identify and quarantine. COVID makes you infectious a few days before you become sick. I think SARS wasn't so easily carried by aerosols, either, though I may be wrong on that. I'd have to go back and review an article I read a couple weeks back.

    In other words, past history may not be a good guide to current events, while speculation is reported as fact, meaning that as understanding shifts, the 'reported facts' shift, as well.
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    Re: WHO needs to get it together

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    World Health Organization, in this case.

    I'm inclined to agree with everyone, so far. If they say they don't know, they get pilloried for it. If they take their best guess, that guess is reported as fact.

    I would expect them to change their position repeatedly on this one, since knowledge is moving fairly fast. Past viruses are not all that good an indication. The closest past virus that I'm aware of is SARS, or possibly MERS (not sure which could be considered the closest), but those two were radically different in important ways. SARS made you sick before you were infectious, so it was relatively easy to identify and quarantine. COVID makes you infectious a few days before you become sick. I think SARS wasn't so easily carried by aerosols, either, though I may be wrong on that. I'd have to go back and review an article I read a couple weeks back.

    In other words, past history may not be a good guide to current events, while speculation is reported as fact, meaning that as understanding shifts, the 'reported facts' shift, as well.
    You may be right but I'm not gonna give them a pass and blame it on the press or people misreading what they said. I've read to many direct quotes in which they are completely wrong or contradictory to other statements. They also are not leading the way in any scientific data, maybe I expect to much. But to me the leadership is giving off the smell of politics not science. What every is the problem they have not been effective. We(the world) need a strong WHO.

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    Re: WHO needs to get it together

    The WHO has been a dishonest actor from the start. They are still tap dancing today, desperately trying to cover themselves.

    "Why" is a pretty good question. And "who" pulls the strings is just as legitimate to ask.



    But I suppose if it doesn't fit with the narrative you're fed by mainstream media, no facts are going to wash the scales from your eyes.

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    Re: WHO needs to get it together

    The WHO has been a dishonest actor from the start. They are still tap dancing today, desperately trying to cover themselves.

    "Why" is a pretty good question. And "who" pulls the strings is just as legitimate to ask.
    It worries me when I agree with one of your post. lol

    The second line was pretty cleaver. My guess, WHY - Money, WHO - The people with the money.

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    PowerPoster ChrisE's Avatar
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    Re: WHO needs to get it together

    the WHO is a bit like the IBM Advert from 1997
    somebody say's something, and we do it, but we don't know why

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    Super Moderator jmcilhinney's Avatar
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    Re: WHO needs to get it together

    This is going to be a problem for some right-wingers. How do you criticise the WHO for not stating emphatically that masks were a good way to stop the spread of coronavirus while also arguing that the pandemic is a left-wing conspiracy or that masks are actually harmful? I'm sure that cognitive dissonance will come to the rescue though.

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    Re: WHO needs to get it together

    Can't believe someone did not post this yet:
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjN5uHRIcjM
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    Re: WHO needs to get it together

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    The WHO has been a dishonest actor from the start. They are still tap dancing today, desperately trying to cover themselves.

    "Why" is a pretty good question. And "who" pulls the strings is just as legitimate to ask.

    But I suppose if it doesn't fit with the narrative you're fed by mainstream media, no facts are going to wash the scales from your eyes.
    Mainstream media?
    Because it's an opinion you don't like?
    Or because there is somewhere someone who has a different opinion and it's on the internet so it must be true??

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    PowerPoster kfcSmitty's Avatar
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    Re: WHO needs to get it together

    Dil has always subscribed to the narriative that "if you don't believe what I believe, you're a niave sheep"

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    Re: WHO needs to get it together

    Wes, is there something specific you're referencing?

    My read on the WHO through this has been that they've been imperfect but sincere. And given that this is a new virus, I'm willing to forgive the imperfection.

    I do agree that they have a tendency to state opinion as fact but I think that's a common failing among scientists as a whole. That everything is a theory and subject to change is implicit in all science and not saying "our current belief is that..." before every statement you make is really just shorthand. Anyone who deals with science quickly learns to mentally insert that prefix for themselves. Whenever pressed they've been quite clear that they're simply working on the best information they have at the time.
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    PowerPoster Arnoutdv's Avatar
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    Re: WHO needs to get it together

    Amen to that! :-)

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    Smooth Moperator techgnome's Avatar
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    Re: WHO needs to get it together

    I'm disappointed that this thread is about the WHO getting it together, and not The Who getting back together...

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    Re: WHO needs to get it together

    Wes, is there something specific you're referencing?
    No, it's not one thing, one misstep is easy to understand. I think Post #1 and 5 state my overall frustration and disappointment.

    Here is another example, https://apnews.com/3c061794970661042b18d5aeaaed9fae

    They're taking photos, acting like everything is wonderful when in reality they new they didn't get full cooperation from China. Politics. Now I realize they're in a tough situation because the WHO depends on these countries for the money to operate but if they can't be a leader in factual truths then how can you be a true World Health Organization?

    They are still probably very helpful to undeveloped countries without large health care organizations but as far as I'm concerned I've stop looking to them for any guidance.

  17. #17
    PowerPoster kfcSmitty's Avatar
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    Re: WHO needs to get it together

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    They're taking photos, acting like everything is wonderful when in reality they new they didn't get full cooperation from China. Politics. Now I realize they're in a tough situation because the WHO depends on these countries for the money to operate but if they can't be a leader in factual truths then how can you be a true World Health Organization?
    They have to do that. If China is hold back information, how would publicly shaming them help? China has shown in the past it doesn't care and will keep everything to itself. Stroke their ego and it becomes easier to work with them.

    I saw that as the WHO doing what they had to, to get what they needed to fight the virus, regardless of how bad it looked to the outside world.

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    Re: WHO needs to get it together

    I saw that as the WHO doing what they had to, to get what they needed to fight the virus, regardless of how bad it looked to the outside world.
    But they didn't get what they needed. How does reinforcing China's lie help. They don't have to shame anyone, they just need to provide the truths that they do know. Trust is important, at least to me.

  19. #19
    PowerPoster kfcSmitty's Avatar
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    Re: WHO needs to get it together

    They did get what they need eventually, but that is beside the point. If someone has something you need, publicly bashing them is not going to get you it; they believed what they were doing would speed up the process.

    China has shown in the past that you don't have to actively insult them to get their backs up, you only need to state the truth. If they had said that China was lagging behind and not giving them what they want, China would have seen that as an attack and held off even longer.

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    Re: WHO needs to get it together

    Quote Originally Posted by kfcSmitty View Post
    They did get what they need eventually, but that is beside the point. If someone has something you need, publicly bashing them is not going to get you it; they believed what they were doing would speed up the process.

    China has shown in the past that you don't have to actively insult them to get their backs up, you only need to state the truth. If they had said that China was lagging behind and not giving them what they want, China would have seen that as an attack and held off even longer.
    You don't seem to be understanding what I'm saying. It has nothing to do with shaming or bashing. They don't need to say a thing about China's response, that's for politicians. They're not going to get anything from China until China deems it's in their best interest. They just need to advise on what they actually know about the virus.

    To be honest, until this outbreak I haven't paid a lot of attention to the WHO. I've donated when they were doing relief work after a natural disaster. Maybe this is business as usual for them and people are happy with the leadership. I'm not. They appear to be very ineffective in this situation.

  21. #21
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: WHO needs to get it together

    All I knew about them was that they were on first.
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    Re: WHO needs to get it together

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    All I knew about them was that they were on first.
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    I Don't Know

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    Re: WHO needs to get it together

    You have to let them get to third base.

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