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Thread: MS abandoning VB.NET

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    MS abandoning VB.NET

    I have noticed hints that MS will abandon VB.NET
    Is there anyway we could get MS to speed that up ?
    If we allow MS do it gradually (the death of a thousand cuts)
    then
    we (those that chose to stay with VB6), will not have the opportunity (I avoided using 'satisfaction'), to point out the folly of their ways, to those that blindly followed MS.

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    Super Moderator jmcilhinney's Avatar
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    Re: MS abandoning VB.NET

    So you're crowing about sticking with a language that was "abandoned" over 20 years ago because the one that replaced it MIGHT be "abandoned" some time in the future? Smooth. You ignore the fact that anyone using VB.NET could simply maintain all the functionality they are used to by switching to C#. It's a different syntax but the differences are less than many people assume. Certainly the differences would be less than for any VB6 developer who chose to switch to a different language. As someone who learned VB.NET first but now does the vast majority of my work in C#, I can vouch for the fact that it's really not that big a deal. It's kinda funny that you're basically criticising Microsoft for doing something that they haven't even done yet but you're hoping they will, just so you can criticise them for it. Never let it be said that a VB6 developer doesn't know how to hold a grudge.

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    Re: MS abandoning VB.NET

    I've been through fortran/DBase/Clipper/C+/Business Basic/VB3,4,5,6/.Net. Now I'm retired so I don't care what MS does but who really expects to only program in one language for their entire career. Maybe if you only plan on a 10 year programming career. But if they do abandon VB .Net I'm sure there will be people who stick with it for the next 20 years like the VB6 people are doing. Living in the fear that the next version of Windows wont run their programs.

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    Re: MS abandoning VB.NET

    if they do abandon VB .Net I'm sure there will be people who stick with it for the next 20 years
    Could be but I'm less convinced. The switch to C# really is trivial and there doesn't seem to be much sign of MS abandoning that. Unlike with VB6, where switching required effort, switching from VB.Net is a no brainer.

    I switched to C# years ago because I just couldn't see a compelling reason for sticking with VB.Net. MS always seemed to be put C# first and being a C# programmer got me a slightly higher salary for zero extra effort. Frankly, I'm surprised MS has maintained the two in parallel for as long as they have and, if VB.Net does point it's toes skyward, I can't see it causing the same ructions as the abandonment of VB6.
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    Super Moderator jmcilhinney's Avatar
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    Re: MS abandoning VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    Could be but I'm less convinced. The switch to C# really is trivial and there doesn't seem to be much sign of MS abandoning that. Unlike with VB6, where switching required effort, switching from VB.Net is a no brainer.
    Indeed. The issue for VB6 developers was obviously that the underpinning infrastructure of VB.NET was quite different to VB6, despite the syntax being very similar. In the case of VB.NET to C#, the syntax changes, although not as much as some probably think, while the infrastructure remains exactly the same.

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    Re: MS abandoning VB.NET

    to point out the folly of their ways, to those that blindly followed MS.
    Very few people blindly follow MS or any other software vendor many of us do Software Development as a job and you use the technology that is required by the industry your working in, every language and platform has it evangelists and VB6 seems to have more than its fair share of those.

    Maybe you should pull you head out of the sand and take a look at one of the many great new development tools from MS or other Vendors and judge them on how good they are not on some ancient 20 year old grudge.
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    Re: MS abandoning VB.NET

    Switching to another programming language that is similar to vb.net isn't that hard. And what are these "hints" you noticed if I may ask?

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    Re: MS abandoning VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcilhinney View Post
    As someone who learned VB.NET first but now does the vast majority of my work in C#, ...
    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    I switched to C# years ago because I just couldn't see a compelling reason for sticking with VB.Net. MS always seemed to be put C# first and being a C# programmer got me a slightly higher salary for zero extra effort.
    Don't both of you regret that you've wasted time learning a language (that obviously doesn't get much love from MS) when you should have been studying Microsoft's favored language instead?

    VB.NET really shouldn't have been created in the first place. Microsoft claims one of the reasons for its existence is to attract newbie programmers to the .NET ecosystem, but why couldn't they have made C# newbie-friendly instead? Why the need for a separate "stepping stone" language?

    I understand their main purpose in offering VB.NET was to lure Classic VB devs to the .NET platform, but due to the many language incompatibilities, porting existing VB6 apps to C# takes about the same amount of effort as porting it to VB.NET, so VB.NET is really just redundant.

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    I've been through fortran/DBase/Clipper/C+/Business Basic/VB3,4,5,6/.Net.
    So, which of those languages can you confidently say that you have near or complete mastery of? How would you compare your skills in VB6 with those who've stuck with it and are very proficient in that language by now?

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    ... but who really expects to only program in one language for their entire career.
    Well, there are hobbyist/freelancer programmers who don't have much time to invest in learning multiple languages. They have no employers requiring them to write code in whatever is the hottest new language so there is little incentive for them to pick up a new one.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeedSomeAnswers View Post
    ... take a look at one of the many great new development tools from MS ...
    Well, ever since Classic VB was discontinued, there has been a gaping hole in Microsoft's language offerings:

    Managed Code
    Native Code
    C family
    C#
    Visual C++
    Basic family
    VB.NET
    There is a substantial market for a Basic language that generates native code (as VB6's once popularity proves) but MS has chosen to ignore them.

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    Re: MS abandoning VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by Millennial View Post
    Don't both of you regret that you've wasted time learning a language (that obviously doesn't get much love from MS) when you should have been studying Microsoft's favored language instead?

    VB.NET really shouldn't have been created in the first place. Microsoft claims one of the reasons for its existence is to attract newbie programmers to the .NET ecosystem, but why couldn't they have made C# newbie-friendly instead? Why the need for a separate "stepping stone" language?

    I understand their main purpose in offering VB.NET was to lure Classic VB devs to the .NET platform, but due to the many language incompatibilities, porting existing VB6 apps to C# takes about the same amount of effort as porting it to VB.NET, so VB.NET is really just redundant.



    So, which of those languages can you confidently say that you have near or complete mastery of? How would you compare your skills in VB6 with those who've stuck with it and are very proficient in that language by now?



    Well, there are hobbyist/freelancer programmers who don't have much time to invest in learning multiple languages. They have no employers requiring them to write code in whatever is the hottest new language so there is little incentive for them to pick up a new one.



    Well, ever since Classic VB was discontinued, there has been a gaping hole in Microsoft's language offerings:

    Managed Code
    Native Code
    C family
    C#
    Visual C++
    Basic family
    VB.NET
    There is a substantial market for a Basic language that generates native code (as VB6's once popularity proves) but MS has chosen to ignore them.
    Learning a programming language which then becomes obsolete is not a waste of time if you have accumulated enough understanding about programming to use your more abstact understanding of coding to another language and use your earlier knowledge as a stepping stone.

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    Administrator Steve R Jones's Avatar
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    Re: MS abandoning VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Swinkels View Post
    Learning a programming language which then becomes obsolete is not a waste of time if you have accumulated enough understanding about programming to use your more abstact understanding of coding to another language and use your earlier knowledge as a stepping stone.
    I have a friend that has been trying to retired for a few years now... He's COBOL programmer.. His company keeps throwing more and more money at him to stick around.... He might have to hire his own replacement. LOL

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    Re: MS abandoning VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Swinkels View Post
    Switching to another programming language that is similar to vb.net isn't that hard. And what are these "hints" you noticed if I may ask?
    There have been these "hints" since at least 2012, and possibly earlier. If you think about that for a minute, you realize that there have been "hints" of the demise of VB.NET for longer than pre-.NET VB was in development. It still hasn't happened. The strategy that I have seen, makes sense to me: C# gets innovations, VB moves at a slower pace. Frankly, that's what I prefer, anyways. Not only can you move between C# and VB with ease, you can mix and match using dlls. They're all .NET dlls, so which .NET language they are written in doesn't matter.

    Back around 2010, there was talk, even from MS, of a future version of VS allowing mixing and matching within a single project. That seemed a bit nuts, to me, but considering the power of modern computers, it isn't all that unreasonable. You wouldn't be able to mix and match within a single method, but it does seem possible to mix and match methods within a single class. It would be horrible, of course, so I'm not surprised that it never happened. Only a masochist would want THAT, it's just that it could have been done, which was never the case with VB6 and....well, anything, but certainly with vb.net.

    As a hobbyist, I've used a few platforms, with associated languages, which have gone away. Ultimately, languages are all similar because logic remains the same, but some are certainly easier to work with than others.
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    Re: MS abandoning VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    There have been these "hints" since at least 2012, and possibly earlier. If you think about that for a minute, you realize that there have been "hints" of the demise of VB.NET for longer than pre-.NET VB was in development. It still hasn't happened. The strategy that I have seen, makes sense to me: C# gets innovations, VB moves at a slower pace. Frankly, that's what I prefer, anyways. Not only can you move between C# and VB with ease, you can mix and match using dlls. They're all .NET dlls, so which .NET language they are written in doesn't matter.

    Back around 2010, there was talk, even from MS, of a future version of VS allowing mixing and matching within a single project. That seemed a bit nuts, to me, but considering the power of modern computers, it isn't all that unreasonable. You wouldn't be able to mix and match within a single method, but it does seem possible to mix and match methods within a single class. It would be horrible, of course, so I'm not surprised that it never happened. Only a masochist would want THAT, it's just that it could have been done, which was never the case with VB6 and....well, anything, but certainly with vb.net.

    As a hobbyist, I've used a few platforms, with associated languages, which have gone away. Ultimately, languages are all similar because logic remains the same, but some are certainly easier to work with than others.
    Easy to work with allows people to ignore alternative options.

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    Re: MS abandoning VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by Millennial View Post
    Don't both of you regret that you've wasted time learning a language (that obviously doesn't get much love from MS) when you should have been studying Microsoft's favored language instead?
    I don't regret it because it wasn't a waste of time.

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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: MS abandoning VB.NET

    I don't see why I would regret it? I never expected permanence. I've written for a few platforms that have gone away. Almost nothing written twenty years ago is still running because of changes in hardware in that span of time. So, how long do we reasonably expect knowledge to remain relevant? Perhaps there's an industry where you can learn something when you are starting out, then have an entire career without needing to learn something new, but I'm not thinking of one, at this point. Things just change too fast. In programming, it's ALWAYS changing. It's probably better to be versatile.

    In some ways, we'd be better off if we had one, reliable, platform we could target. Back in the 80s and early 90s. There were a couple different platforms. If you wanted to buy certain software, you first had to figure out whether it would run on the system you had. It got a bit better for the consumer when there was essentially only one. That's fragmenting out again. Obviously, that's not great for us (except for some legacy coders who make big bucks for specialized, and rare, knowledge), since coders have always dreamed about cross-platform. Unfortunately, you can't have innovation AND homogeneous platforms.

    So, we'll always be chasing the next thing.
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    Re: MS abandoning VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    I don't see why I would regret it? I never expected permanence. I've written for a few platforms that have gone away. Almost nothing written twenty years ago is still running because of changes in hardware in that span of time. So, how long do we reasonably expect knowledge to remain relevant? Perhaps there's an industry where you can learn something when you are starting out, then have an entire career without needing to learn something new, but I'm not thinking of one, at this point. Things just change too fast. In programming, it's ALWAYS changing. It's probably better to be versatile.

    In some ways, we'd be better off if we had one, reliable, platform we could target. Back in the 80s and early 90s. There were a couple different platforms. If you wanted to buy certain software, you first had to figure out whether it would run on the system you had. It got a bit better for the consumer when there was essentially only one. That's fragmenting out again. Obviously, that's not great for us (except for some legacy coders who make big bucks for specialized, and rare, knowledge), since coders have always dreamed about cross-platform. Unfortunately, you can't have innovation AND homogeneous platforms.

    So, we'll always be chasing the next thing.
    Even if we did have a single reliable platform that still wouldn't solve all the problems, learning a language is sometimes more than just the syntax it can also involve thinking about things in a different way and learning new approaches to solving problems. Even knowing a single language amazingly well wouldn't always mean you could solve all problems ion the best way - VB, C# are certainly very good general purpose languages that could be used to solve just about any problem... I would still rather use a bit of Python and a couple of additional modules if I was doing a lot of file importing and exporting or wanting to incorporate a bit of machine learning. Dabbling in F# made me think about different approaches to problem solving and the benefits of immutability, often aiming for an immutable approach in a more traditional language can prevent a lot of problems. Helping to support a PHP application made me value the benefits of alcohol everything has it use after all

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    Re: MS abandoning VB.NET

    So, which of those languages can you confidently say that you have near or complete mastery of? How would you compare your skills in VB6 with those who've stuck with it and are very proficient in that language by now?
    My software always met the customer requirements (getting the correct requirements is harder than the actual programming) and was stable. If your only goal is to master a programming language then you should stick to one language forever.

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    Re: MS abandoning VB.NET

    If your only goal is to master a programming language then you should stick to one language forever.
    Might I recommend TempleOS? Guaranteed to be immutable, extant in a purely academic space and, as a happy side effect, will get you closer to God.

    Don't both of you regret that you've wasted time learning a language (that obviously doesn't get much love from MS) when you should have been studying Microsoft's favored language instead?
    A little but not really. If I want new features I have to be prepared to learn. Whether I do that in a language I already know or a new one doesn't make a lot of difference. It's the new features and approaches that are difficult, not the syntax. I think the migration effort is a different story and I can understand why people resented that.

    VB.NET really shouldn't have been created...
    In essence you're saying that VB.Net was a marketing strategy and I agree. But so what? I don't feel VB.Net was intended to kill off VB6 as many people portray it. The withdrawal of development, support and licencing was intended to kill off VB6 - VB.Net was, if anything, an imperfect safety net intended to ease the pain of that.

    Well, there are hobbyist/freelancer programmers who don't have much time to invest in learning multiple languages. They have no employers requiring them to write code in whatever is the hottest new language so there is little incentive for them to pick up a new one.
    I'm not sure I buy that argument. I certainly did 20 years ago but these days there are good, free and more innovative languages with new features being added like Python if that's your problem space.
    Last edited by FunkyDexter; Jul 7th, 2020 at 02:14 AM.
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    Re: MS abandoning VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by Millennial View Post
    Microsoft claims one of the reasons for its existence is to attract newbie programmers to the .NET ecosystem, but why couldn't they have made C# newbie-friendly instead? Why the need for a separate "stepping stone" language?
    C# is already far more intelligible than C/C++, just as Java was. I don't think that they could have dumbed it down any more and still kept the syntax C-based. VB.NET is, by the very nature of VB syntax, easier to pick up and less daunting for the majority of beginners. When I see questions like this asked, I really have to wonder how thoroughly the person asking them has considered the situation.

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    Superbly Moderated NeedSomeAnswers's Avatar
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    Re: MS abandoning VB.NET

    Don't both of you regret that you've wasted time learning a language (that obviously doesn't get much love from MS) when you should have been studying Microsoft's favored language instead?
    No i never regret learning new languages and techniques all it does is improve you knowledge and ability. Recently i have been learning some React, i dont even use it at work but its been a good exercise and i have learned a lot.

    but why couldn't they have made C# newbie-friendly instead?
    C# is not difficult, we have a 65 year old programmer at my work who who describes himself as "not technical" and he has shifted to using C# from VB6, initially he used to refer to C# as Swahili but 6 months later he is using it fine maybe not an expert yet but is completing projects in it
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    Re: MS abandoning VB.NET

    I am a old beginner (aren't we all ?) and amateur. I started a long long time ago with Basic and Qbasic. I learned in school Turbo Pascal and ADA (and that's the only language I regret to have learned...). I have done a bit of C too and a bit of VB6 then I discovered VB.net and it was a kind of revelation as the language is easy to use, to learn.

    The IDE allows to directly create the form and put visually all your controls in it so you can concentrate on the heart of your program so it is good for the beginner and amateur I am.

    Of course C# does the same thing, the syntax is close and I am sure I could learn it pretty quickly but frankly for now I don't see an interest in it as VB.net allows me to do all I need to do for my applications. (by the way, who has never spend hours to looks for the ";" missing cannot understand why I will always prefer VB to C(# or ++ or nothing) or other ";" language even if now the IDE helps you to deal with that )

    I still use VB.net 2010 for my professional applications so I am stuck with framework 4.0. But for the moment I didn't see the limits. Of course I don't have the newest/nicest features but who cares, not my users anyway who are looking for efficiency and not just a nice design.

    If I were a professional then I think I would learn 2-3 languages depending of what specialty I would have (web design, application, industry, etc...) but at first, it would be C#, C++ and and maybe python or java.


    PS : I forgot Fortran, I have done a bit of it too as it is/was used to do custom programs in mechanical software like ansys and abaqus. For ansys, I think it uses Python now.
    Last edited by Delaney; Jul 7th, 2020 at 04:05 AM. Reason: typo of course ;)
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    Super Moderator jmcilhinney's Avatar
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    Re: MS abandoning VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by Delaney View Post
    I still use VB.net 2010 for my professional applications so I am stuck with framework 4.0.
    You may or may not be aware but VS 2019 Community is free and has virtually all the features of Professional so, if you would like to upgrade to the latest, cost is not an issue.

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    Fanatic Member Delaney's Avatar
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    Re: MS abandoning VB.NET

    I use VS2017 for my personal projects, I didn't update yet to the 2019 version.

    At work, I work on an internal, secured network without any access to internet so I cannot install VS2019 on it so the cost is not the problem.

    I have also an old laptop for internet access with both VS2010 and 2017 on it but I don't do much coding on it as it is old and slow (mostly with VS 2017). I use it principally to code the Arduinos I use.
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    Re: MS abandoning VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by Steve R Jones View Post
    I have a friend that has been trying to retired for a few years now... He's COBALT programmer.. His company keeps throwing more and more money at him to stick around.... He might have to hire his own replacement. LOL
    Did you mean COBOL? That was my first language. After English...
    Last edited by TysonLPrice; Jul 7th, 2020 at 02:21 PM.
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    Super Moderator jmcilhinney's Avatar
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    Re: MS abandoning VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by Delaney View Post
    At work, I work on an internal, secured network without any access to internet so I cannot install VS2019 on it so the cost is not the problem.
    Neither is lack of internet access.

    https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/vis...o?view=vs-2019

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    Re: MS abandoning VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by TysonLPrice View Post
    Did you mean COBOL? That was my first language.
    Good Catch - THANKS (edit done above)

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    Re: MS abandoning VB.NET

    He's COBALT programmer
    I mean... chiselling your code into rock tablets... that's old school!
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    Re: MS abandoning VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    I mean... chiselling your code into rock tablets... that's old school!
    I'm not THAT old...we used punch cards
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    Re: MS abandoning VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcilhinney View Post
    Neither is lack of internet access.

    https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/vis...o?view=vs-2019
    Pathetic internet access is more of an obstacle than a lack of internet access. That download would take me about a week. Seriously, I did a download like that one time and it took 8 or 9 days non-stop.

    The alternatives aren't all that much better. The total size is far too large for a dual density DVD-R, so you HAVE to do some kind of mix and match installation. It's not great.
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    Re: MS abandoning VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by Millennial View Post
    Don't both of you regret that you've wasted time learning a language (that obviously doesn't get much love from MS) when you should have been studying Microsoft's favored language instead?
    Yes, I regret learning Apple BASIC. Man what a waste of time that was. All it did was lead me down the path of a 40+ year hobby and career that involved LOGO (now there's a dead language), PC BASIC, GW BASIC, QBASIC, BASICA, which then lead me to Pascal, Turbo Pascal, I think I picked up some SQL in there, then came ADA, COBOL, more SQL, VB 3, 4, 5, 6, .NET (2002-2012), and now Java, React, Redux, Kubernetes, and a bunch of other things along the way. Oh, I forgot HTML, CSS, Javascript in there too... so... I guess BASIC was the gateway language for me... so do I regret it? Sure do. I also regret the jobs I've had over the years that's allowed me to support things like non-profits, and the work I'm doing now supporting the Veteran's Administration.

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    Super Moderator jmcilhinney's Avatar
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    Re: MS abandoning VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Pathetic internet access is more of an obstacle than a lack of internet access. That download would take me about a week. Seriously, I did a download like that one time and it took 8 or 9 days non-stop.

    The alternatives aren't all that much better. The total size is far too large for a dual density DVD-R, so you HAVE to do some kind of mix and match installation. It's not great.
    Send me 1000 floppy disks and I'll sort it out for you. That said, a 16GB flash drive is peanuts these days so it's still not hard to do the installation from one source.

    With regards to internet speed, I have to say that I'm glad for the NBN here is Australia these days. It's not as good as it was originally promised and still particularly poor in some areas but I'm in a major centre and just did a speed test to get 46.14/18.45 Mbps and that is on the second fastest tier. That's about 4x the download speed I was getting on ADSL and about 20x the upload speed. It is easy to forget that not everyone has it so good at times.

  31. #31
    Fanatic Member Delaney's Avatar
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    Re: MS abandoning VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcilhinney View Post
    Neither is lack of internet access.

    https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/vis...o?view=vs-2019
    I tried to do that but it didn't work, at some point, it looks for an internet access to download some extra stuff and in any case you need an internet access to connect and get the free license to use it.

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    Well, I don't desperate, at some point, they will change my laptop for a better one so I can install and use VS 2019. I will do some lobbying.
    Last edited by Delaney; Jul 7th, 2020 at 10:24 AM. Reason: typo, always typo ;) and add stuff
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  32. #32
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: MS abandoning VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcilhinney View Post
    Send me 1000 floppy disks and I'll sort it out for you. That said, a 16GB flash drive is peanuts these days so it's still not hard to do the installation from one source.
    Good point. I do have access to very high speed access, I just don't have it at home, so anything large pretty much has to be done at work...and these days, that's not so easy. That will change, though. I am using 2019 on my work computer and a remote virtual machine, I just haven't put it on my home system, yet.


    With regards to internet speed, I have to say that I'm glad for the NBN here is Australia these days. It's not as good as it was originally promised and still particularly poor in some areas but I'm in a major centre and just did a speed test to get 46.14/18.45 Mbps and that is on the second fastest tier. That's about 4x the download speed I was getting on ADSL and about 20x the upload speed. It is easy to forget that not everyone has it so good at times.
    I'm not sure I could get THAT good a speed, but I could get about 20x what I have now. The problem is that I utterly loathe the only companies that provide that service. I'm in good company, too. If you mention either of those companies at any social gathering, somebody will surely tell a story of their odious behavior, sometimes with spittle flying from the lips. It's a bit entertaining.

    Thus far, my provider has gotten right the last thing they did, so they're on a roll. That's the first time they got something right on the first try. I hesitate at great length to talk with them because just asking a question can prompt them to do something that they can't recover from. When I first inquired about high speed internet, despite the fact that it was not available in my area, they signed me up and proceeded to bill me for months. Each month, I'd call them up and they'd promise to cancel and refund me. By the time it finally did get canceled, I had such a credit built up that I didn't pay a bill for another six months.

    Overall, though, I'm ahead by a modest amount. Some of their screw-ups have benefited me. For example, they sent me two modems. As it turns out, they were junk, so I should have kept the second for when the first failed, but I returned it...and the refunded me, even though they had only charged me once, so I basically paid for one, got two, returned one, and got refunded for one, thereby paying for 0 and getting 1. Other mistakes have been harder to understand.

    Recently, they sent me an offer of a price-for-life on much faster internet for only a few bucks more than what I was paying (they were lying, which I knew, but even factoring in the lie it would have been a good deal). However, that offer was only for new customers. If you had been with them for a few years...the price was nearly double. Still a tolerable price, but such an offensive practice. "If you're new, we'll let you pay about half what others are paying for the rest of time...but if you've been a loyal customer...we're gonna squeeze you till it hurts!"
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    Re: MS abandoning VB.NET

    Based on what I read, it's not just .Net. It's the entire language, not that it makes much difference.

    There are other dialects out there, but none I saw would have a GUI front-end like VB6 and VB.Net programs can have. They're all console, command prompt, whatever you want to call it. There's one called FreeBasic. Its syntax and keywords are about as close as one can get to the pre-VB offerings, like PDS and QuickBasic. The difference is a vast group of libraries which come with the package. It is also 64-bit. The real downside is no source editor. There are a couple of 3rd party code editors. I have used it some and its compiled programs are really fast. They should be. They have no runtime baggage.

    I still have CD's of VS Express 2008 and 2010. I used them back then. I tried C# but didn't get anywhere with it. Even though it was scaled-down C, it was still too complex for me to grasp. More recently, I taught myself a little Perl. It too is console. The introduction of Windows 7 created a hard push-back regarding the use of VB6. Windows 10 is not so bad. I think Microsoft gazed at the writing on the wall from afar but ignored it. Most of us tend to prefer what we learned in school, trade-school, or college. In my time at trade-school, C was in its infancy and COBOL was the business language of choice. Fortran was available, but no one taught it, even then. GWBasic pushed it aside, mostly.

    I see my programming days coming to an end on the horizon. I've been doing it over 30 years and I will miss it. As someone once said, "All good things must come to and end."

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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: MS abandoning VB.NET

    If you are that old, VB.NET will outlive you. It may well end at some point, but that end is not close. At worst, it will molder away for a time, and even that may not happen. That which molders always has a chance for revival. MS has changed course on .NET languages at least twice, so far in the 18 years that .NET has been around. Will there be a third, and if so, in which direction? Who can say....certainly not MS.

    However, C# isn't a scaled down C. They use the same syntax, but the differences are greater than the similarities once you get beyond the syntax. C# is much closer to VB, which is why you can readily convert one to the other, either by hand or via a tool. They both compile to the same IL, too, so they have to be pretty similar. I can't say that I'm thrilled with C#, because the syntax carries anachronistic baggage from the early days of C (semicolons and case-sensitive names), but don't let your expectations of the complexity of C color your understanding of C#. Just think of it as VB with different syntax.
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    Re: MS abandoning VB.NET

    Quote Originally Posted by ndwaynep View Post
    Based on what I read, it's not just .Net. It's the entire language, not that it makes much difference.

    There are other dialects out there, but none I saw would have a GUI front-end like VB6 and VB.Net programs can have. They're all console, command prompt, whatever you want to call it. There's one called FreeBasic. Its syntax and keywords are about as close as one can get to the pre-VB offerings, like PDS and QuickBasic. The difference is a vast group of libraries which come with the package. It is also 64-bit. The real downside is no source editor. There are a couple of 3rd party code editors. I have used it some and its compiled programs are really fast. They should be. They have no runtime baggage.

    I still have CD's of VS Express 2008 and 2010. I used them back then. I tried C# but didn't get anywhere with it. Even though it was scaled-down C, it was still too complex for me to grasp. More recently, I taught myself a little Perl. It too is console. The introduction of Windows 7 created a hard push-back regarding the use of VB6. Windows 10 is not so bad. I think Microsoft gazed at the writing on the wall from afar but ignored it. Most of us tend to prefer what we learned in school, trade-school, or college. In my time at trade-school, C was in its infancy and COBOL was the business language of choice. Fortran was available, but no one taught it, even then. GWBasic pushed it aside, mostly.

    I see my programming days coming to an end on the horizon. I've been doing it over 30 years and I will miss it. As someone once said, "All good things must come to and end."
    Sounds like you need a come to Jesus moment... like I did a couple years ago. After nearly 40 years working with MS technologies in one form or another (I started off with Apple BASIC in 82, moved to PC BASIC a couple years later, then GW-BASIC, Power BASIC, BASICA, eventually VB, and .NET) I realized that I was limiting myself and it was time to move beyond the boundaries of MS. Last two years I've been doing web development, building RESTful services, and working with Java and React/Redux... I've probably added another 10 years to my career as a result. Which is good because I've got kids heading into college over the next couple of years... so I'll be working for the next few until they are done.

    -tg
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  36. #36
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    Re: MS abandoning VB.NET

    I've probably added another 10 years to my career as a result.
    I'm going to have to wait another decade for my taco?! This is unacceptable.
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