Results 1 to 17 of 17

Thread: Apology Accepted

  1. #1

    Thread Starter
    PowerPoster Elroy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Near Nashville TN
    Posts
    9,853

    Apology Accepted

    The original thread was actually closed between me seeing your apology and hitting "Submit" on me typing this. I don't know if you (or anyone) will find it over here, but that's ok too. I had just spent some time on the post and didn't want to toss it.

    Quote Originally Posted by dreammanor View Post
    Hi Elroy, I don't mean to disrespect you, I know you are very successful in your field. But this is a technical forum, we are only discussing technology. You can always imagine things unrelated to technology from other people's comments.

    IMO, there are many people who can learn a lot from this thread and Olaf and other people's remarks, only you will not, because you have too many stereotypes in your heart.

    You laugh at me as a little fanboi of Olaf, I don't mind you saying that, although I may have more programming experience than you. One thing you may not know is that most people who use vbRichClient5 are professional software developers with rich programming experience. Only those with rich programming experience can appreciate the mystery and magic of vbRichClient5. I respect Olaf very much, because I respect all gentlemen who have superb skills and are enthusiastic about helping others. In fact, I respect many people on this forum. If you don't have stereotypes in your heart, then you also belong to someone I respect. We all see that you have made a lot of contributions to this forum.

    In fact, my comments in post #20 are mainly meant to be told to Olaf, and I want him to stop persuading you, which is a waste of time.

    In addition, I guess this should be the last time I speak in your thread. If my comments hurt you, I apologize to you here.
    I appreciate the apology, and I'll apologize to you as well.

    And just to say it, I'm more interested in functionality than "looks", and my clients are as well. Also, yeah, I've got some experience in C, C#, VB.NET, and even a substantial (quite successful) FORTRAN project back in the day. However, I can get end-user functional work done FAR faster in VB6 than any other programming language. But my largest client had decided they want a viable plan to move away from VB6 into a "Microsoft Supported" language (with debate about what that actually means, but please, not to be debated in this thread).

    Furthermore, I'm at a point in my life/career where I'm playing more and more of a consulting role (still actively programming, but helping them to figure out how to have others take on various programming tasks). It's sort of the flip-side of finding a niche market in which to program. How do you ever "escape"? But basically, I'm just trying to say that I have tremendous respect and even admiration for this "largest client", and I'd like to do everything possible to help them continue with this software into the foreseeable future, even if I have a more and more diminished role with that, and with others stepping up as the programmers that carry it all forward.

    And just to say it again, in my case, there's absolutely zero chance that they'll want to do things on anything other than a Windows platform. All of my clients are hospitals, and I'm not sure I've ever been in a hospital that had anything other than Windows-based workstations.

    And let me say just a bit about RC5. I'm sure it's a nice library, and, in other circumstances I might give it a serious look. However, one thing that gives all of my clients a degree of comfort (and a willingness to carry on with a VB6 program for at least a while longer) is the fact that it's all either open-source or libraries written by Microsoft. Just to illustrate the degree to which they're concerned about such things, they've paid another consultant to do a review of all the libraries I use. Beyond the core windows libraries ... that would include the VB6 runtime and five OCX libraries (mscomct2, mscomctl, richtx32, tabctl32, and msflxgrd). They even checked out the specific versions of those libraries I use and reviewed every security related KB article about them.

    I informed them that I could get rid of the OCX libraries and replace them with Krool's open source work, but they'd rather spend that money on moving forward with a plan to get into the latest version of "Visual Studio" in some form or another. And THAT is the purpose of this thread. I'm simply trying to explore the easiest path to get from where we are into the latest Visual Studio, with the precise same functionality.

    Best Regards,
    Elroy
    Any software I post in these forums written by me is provided "AS IS" without warranty of any kind, expressed or implied, and permission is hereby granted, free of charge and without restriction, to any person obtaining a copy. To all, peace and happiness.

  2. #2
    PowerPoster
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    2,083

    Re: Apology Accepted

    Hi Elroy, thank you for accepting my apology. In many cases, I was only talking about the project or solution itself, not talking about other things.

    I once mentioned the word obsessive-compulsive disorder in my comments. First of all, I would like to point out that in China, "obsessive-compulsive disorder" is not an insulting word, it is a synonym for "the pursuit of perfection." If we always say that we are "pursuing perfection", this will make people think that you are "boasting", so we often use "obsessive-compulsive disorder" instead of "pursuing perfection" to describe ourselves and colleagues.

    Maybe I know you better than Olaf. I have many similar experiences with you, for example: I have used Access-DB (Access97) for many years like you. We had developed a large number of applications on Access-DB. In these applications, there were 50-300 users operating the database at the same time, and each Access-DB needed to add 300-2000M of data each month, and we needed to store at least 3 years of data in an Acess-DB file. The end result was that it often crashed, so we spent a lot of resources migrating from AccessDB to SQL Server, and since then we can process dozens of Gigabyte of data every year without crashing. I also used VB6 to develop a large number of software systems just like you. In fact, when you were still a PhD student, I already developed many large-scale systems. In addition, I had experienced the process of migrating VB6 code to C# just like you. When I saw that you were doing the same thing I did 15 years ago, I hoped I could give you some suggestions and hoped you could take fewer detours, but my expression was very inappropriate, I should not judge which ways were better, the right of judgment and choice should be left to you.

    IMO, everyone who has been engaged in software development for a long time will have different degrees of obsessive-compulsive disorder, and I'm an in-depth obsessive-compulsive disorder patient. I attach great importance to the affinity and modernization of the software UI. I can't stand jagged lines and curves, nor can I tolerate old software UIs. So I spent a lot of time developing my own user controls to replace the old Microsoft controls. If the UI of a software is very old, then I will reject it completely, just like you completely reject RC5. But I never deny the value and technical content of these old softwares, especially those that have proved to be very successful, just like no one laughed at the fact that the US medical insurance system and welfare system were developed in COBOL language.

    In any case, judging someone else's software UI is always a very rude behavior. I'll try to avoid this behavior in the future. In order to reduce the harm to others caused by my OCD, I'll try my best to reduce irrelevant comments in other people's threads.

    Hope your VB code migrates smoothly. Good luck.
    Last edited by dreammanor; May 5th, 2020 at 01:04 AM.

  3. #3
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    38,989

    Re: Apology Accepted

    Quote Originally Posted by dreammanor View Post
    I once mentioned the word obsessive-compulsive disorder in my comments. First of all, I would like to point out that in China, "obsessive-compulsive disorder" is not an insulting word, it is a synonym for "the pursuit of perfection." If we always say that we are "pursuing perfection", this will make people think that you are "boasting", so we often use "obsessive-compulsive disorder" instead of "pursuing perfection" to describe ourselves and colleagues.
    I can totally see that. From what little I know about Chinese culture, that's a very Chinese approach, to communicate something that could be seen as offensive in a fashion that is not intended to offend. Unfortunately, this is one of those phrases that has a VERY different meaning in the US. There's an even worse one between British English and US English, but the censor would dot out the word if I were to mention it.

    In the US, obsessive-compulsive disorder is just that, so you'd effectively be saying that a person has a mental illness. Meanwhile, our view of 'perfectionist' is pretty complicated. Some would see it as an insult, others a compliment.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  4. #4
    Wall Poster TysonLPrice's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Posts
    3,834

    Re: Apology Accepted

    but the censor would dot out the word if I were to mention it.
    Did you mean "anal". I don't think a moderator would dot that out. Butt maybe one would.
    Please remember next time...elections matter!

  5. #5
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    38,989

    Re: Apology Accepted

    No. If there's a different meaning for that word, I don't know about it.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  6. #6
    MS SQL Powerposter szlamany's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    18,263

    Re: Apology Accepted

    When did we all become so sensitive that we can't apply everyday terms to different situations. My wife jokes that I have OCD all the time - Obviously Care Deeply! I had an uncle and a great aunt with real OCD and tourette syndrome. Every time I curse in a place that might be less appropriate for that language, I joke that it's my tourette's!

    I was scared of my great aunt when I was little - that's for sure. She peppered "f-you's" through out her sentences!

    I think the thing I hate the most about what we are becoming is that "social justice warrior" flag so many wave. It's just retarded (and I mean that in an "grab-your-distributor-cap" and "adjust-your-engine-timing" way!)

    *** Read the sticky in the DB forum about how to get your question answered quickly!! ***

    Please remember to rate posts! Rate any post you find helpful - even in old threads! Use the link to the left - "Rate this Post".

    Some Informative Links:
    [ SQL Rules to Live By ] [ Reserved SQL keywords ] [ When to use INDEX HINTS! ] [ Passing Multi-item Parameters to STORED PROCEDURES ]
    [ Solution to non-domain Windows Authentication ] [ Crazy things we do to shrink log files ] [ SQL 2005 Features ] [ Loading Pictures from DB ]

    MS MVP 2006, 2007, 2008

  7. #7
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    38,989

    Re: Apology Accepted

    As you know, there are words that end up as asterisks on this site. I was specifically avoiding using such a word, because it would get dotted out, and that would just muddle things further.

    I'm of two minds about the SJW thing (I'm NOT of two minds about spelling out three, lengthy words, rather than use the TLA, though I'm also clearly willing to say much more rather than spell out three, lengthy words). For one thing, the SJW label appears to have been coined solely to bash people with. Second, the people who do the bashing often have some pretty hateful ideas and are wanting to get those out. On the other hand, some people have gone too far in silencing speech that they don't agree with. We've lost several members that way. However, I remember an ancient thread on immigration which was pretty lively and went on for several pages. If I remember it right, the guy who started it began it on pretty racist terms, and people jumped all over that. You won't find the thread, though, because in those days, if the OP deleted the first post, the whole thread went away, and that's what happened to that thread.

    We have different views on all kinds of things. Behind the mask of the written word, we sometimes speak in ways we wouldn't face to face, but we OFTEN don't communicate as well in this medium than we would in speech. That can be misconstrued....or not.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  8. #8
    MS SQL Powerposter szlamany's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Connecticut
    Posts
    18,263

    Re: Apology Accepted

    If you post it, at least stand behind it!

    At any rate, I'm talking more about the local SJW's - you often find them on hometown FB groups.

    One here decided that some construction in town - on a state road - was evil, because there was a nesting bald eagle on the site. Trees were cleared right up to the nest. People lumped hate and blame on the mayor - the builder - the local boards that approved this evil project. They all rallied behind the hate - stating this US regulation or that state regulation and omg...

    Come to find out the builder was very aware of the bird, various federal agencies and the local Audubon society all in the know and working hand in hand. Seems the bird was more bothered by all the local SJW's coming to take pictures!

    And of course now that the truth is out, no one is saying kudos to the builder - the fan fare lowers when the "hate fest" loses it's grip.

    *** Read the sticky in the DB forum about how to get your question answered quickly!! ***

    Please remember to rate posts! Rate any post you find helpful - even in old threads! Use the link to the left - "Rate this Post".

    Some Informative Links:
    [ SQL Rules to Live By ] [ Reserved SQL keywords ] [ When to use INDEX HINTS! ] [ Passing Multi-item Parameters to STORED PROCEDURES ]
    [ Solution to non-domain Windows Authentication ] [ Crazy things we do to shrink log files ] [ SQL 2005 Features ] [ Loading Pictures from DB ]

    MS MVP 2006, 2007, 2008

  9. #9
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    An obscure body in the SK system. The inhabitants call it Earth
    Posts
    7,900

    Re: Apology Accepted

    I'm a bit confused as to why it's come up in this thread but broadly I agree with both of you.

    I'm a pretty liberal guy and I generally try to avoid offending people, even if I feel they deserve it, because I believe you catch more flies with treacle. I also tend to be immediately suspicious when people start complaining about "SJWs" or "Political Correctness Gone Mad" because, as often as not, they're really just looking to excuse their own bullying behaviour. But, yes, I'm increasingly coming dark parts of the internet where people's outrage (often borrowed) gets truly ridiculous.

    I came across a guy recently saying the Cambridge University were racist because they have a course called something like "Celtic and Nordic History". His argument was that "Nordic" has often co-opted by the far right, so non whites would be intimidated by the name of the course and would therefore be excluded. The Cambridge usage, though, has absolutely nothing to do with that co-opting so to follow through on this does nothing but hand power to the bigots. It's stupid and in no way are Cambridge being racist by using the word absolutely friggin' correctly.

    There was a recent similar debate because Morris Dancers typically have one character who paints their face black. There were accusations that this was "black face". I mean, it literally is, but it also goes back to at least the 1400s and is thought to be a portrayal of the devil (though this is somewhat lost in the mists of time). It has absolutely nothing to do with racist portrayals but that didn't stop certain sections of the internet calling for an end to a tradition that precedes both the slave trade and the formation of the United States.

    If you're the sort of person who likes to insult people to get a rise out of them, you're a douche. If you're the sort of person who likes to condemn those same people for becoming offended after you've set out to offend them, you're an even bigger douche (and you probably refer to your behaviour as "Banter"). But if you're the sort of person who looks at everything in the world with an eye on how you can turn it into something you can be offended by, regardless of how it was intended, then, yeah, you too are a douche.
    Last edited by FunkyDexter; May 8th, 2020 at 03:19 PM.
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter - Winston Churchill

    Hadoop actually sounds more like the way they greet each other in Yorkshire - Inferrd

  10. #10
    New Member 911DIGITALAGENCY's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2020
    Location
    SYDNEY, NSW, AUSTRALIA
    Posts
    0

    Re: Apology Accepted

    Hi Team,

    I am steve, webdeveloper at sydney. Its nice to have a separate thread for "Apology".
    Good. Well done.

  11. #11
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    38,989

    Re: Apology Accepted

    Quote Originally Posted by szlamany View Post
    If you post it, at least stand behind it!

    At any rate, I'm talking more about the local SJW's - you often find them on hometown FB groups.

    One here decided that some construction in town - on a state road - was evil, because there was a nesting bald eagle on the site. Trees were cleared right up to the nest. People lumped hate and blame on the mayor - the builder - the local boards that approved this evil project. They all rallied behind the hate - stating this US regulation or that state regulation and omg...

    Come to find out the builder was very aware of the bird, various federal agencies and the local Audubon society all in the know and working hand in hand. Seems the bird was more bothered by all the local SJW's coming to take pictures!

    And of course now that the truth is out, no one is saying kudos to the builder - the fan fare lowers when the "hate fest" loses it's grip.
    Yeah, but that has ALWAYS happened, and it isn't necessarily on one side or another. Small towns are weird. I don't know that they are any weirder in New England, but they are plenty weird up there.

    Where I grew up, we had a similar reaction to the construction of a radio antenna. In that case, people were freaking out because they thought it made our town a target for Soviet nukes. That ignored our proximity to sub bases, air force bases (with long range bombers, at the time), and Boston. We wouldn't exactly be safe in a general exchange, and the antenna wasn't even suitable to be related to cold war activities, but that didn't stop people from freaking out....though, the lack of the internet, at that time, may have kept the hysteria at a manageable level.

    These days, people just have an easier time freaking out. If you want to lose your mind, it's easier than it ever has been, and it's equal opportunity. You can be left, right, center, lunatic fringe, religious, anti-religious, or anything else (except stoned...those people don't seem to rally for much of anything), and you'll have plenty of opportunity to exercise your blood pressure or lungs.

    The bottom line is: Just say no to FB. That's the common denominator.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  12. #12

    Thread Starter
    PowerPoster Elroy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Location
    Near Nashville TN
    Posts
    9,853

    Re: Apology Accepted

    WOW, just checking back with this thread. I had no idea it was getting so much activity.

    And well, since it's my thread, there are three themes mentioned I'd like to address.

    -------------
    #1 "Standing behind what we say"

    Yeah, I think that's generally true, but we're also human beings with emotions, and, more importantly, moods. And we sometimes say things we may later regret. Sure, I think we should stand behind them, but to come back later and give them more honest context is always a brave and dignified thing to do ... and I genuinely feel that dreammanor acted in that way.

    -------------
    #2 "Perfectionism"

    That's a word I've thought about a great deal in my life. And yes, I too have been called OCD many times by many people. I think it takes at least a touch of it to be any good at all as a programmer.

    However, I've also read quite a bit of post-modern philosophy, and that has convinced me that virtually everything (including our definition of "perfection") is a matter of perspective and personal opinion. Therefore, one person's perfection may very well be another person's garbage (and vice-versa). And, if we're truly going to be peaceful and noble people, we must somehow learn to appreciate that.

    And, truth be told, I've done quite a bit of work in my life to tamp-down my tendency to demand perfectionism. Sure, I still apply it when making sure my code doesn't have bugs. But, to apply it to every aspect of life is just too judgmental and makes too many impossible demands of people (especially when combined with the idea that it's always contextual and imbued with personal opinion). We just wind up coming off as arrogant. (And please, dreammanor, I'm addressing that to myself as much (or more) as to anyone else.)

    This makes me think of the "Changling" episode in the original Startrek series, or when 7-of-9 was so sad when the Omega molecules were destroyed. Also, the scene in Good Will Hunting with Robin Williams and Matt Damon, where Williams told Damon that it was all the IMperfections that actually made life worth living (badly paraphrased). Yes, again, that doesn't necessarily apply to programming, but it might in certain respects. When it comes to code meeting functional specifications, sure, we need perfection. But when it comes to what color to make something or whether or not to have rounded edges on buttons, those are NOT functional specifications, and one person's definition of perfection may be quite different from another's.

    ------------
    #3 "SJW"

    Yeah, this is a tough one for me too. Ok, I'll admit it ... I'm a "Yellow Dog Democrat". If you don't know what that is, look it up. It is rather particularly American (USA). I was a Jesse Jackson state delegate, and I've been active in the Democratic party to varying degrees through most of my adult life. And yeah, I think Trump is doing damage to this country that may very well take decades from which to recover. We are just frigging better than this!

    I read a Politico opinion article this morning on how several liberal professors were upset that he's now calling on people to be warriors, and how it's wrong of him to equate all of this to war. Personally, I think they're dead-wrong. I DO think we're at war, maybe not with a foreign country, maybe not with a political movement, but it's still war. Americans are being attacked and dying. And Trump has TRULY missed a calling to be a great president. When we're at war, we don't order our troops to run into the path of raging machine-guns. That's just stupid, and that's what Trump is doing. When we're at war, it's time to invoke the BEST in us, to throw money and resources at people like Alan Turing so the enigma machine code can be broken, to throw resources at things like the Manhattan project, to invest in technology to develop better and smarter defenses (still making WWII analogies, to develop the P-51, the Spitfire, the B-17). Trump could easily invoke the War Powers Act and Defense Production Act to mandate that people immediately start producing masks, gloves, gowns, tests. And, they talk about trying to pick the vaccine (currently several in testing) that has the best hope, and put it into production before the study results are in. Why in the HECK aren't we picking the best SIX or the best TEN vaccine hopes and putting them ALL into production, possibly saving months of time. And, compared to other things we spend money on, this is NOT that big a deal. I mean, this Covid thing has already killed more USA Americans than the Vietnam War, and it could approach the USA deaths of WWII before it's done. But, I wander afield.

    SJW, yeah, that's a though one, having been one to some degree in my own life. However, in general, I've come to believe that it often causes more division and derision than any good it might do. Without actually drinking the Cool-Aid, I think there's value in doing the hard work to understand the other side's point-of-view. We may never see it as morally correct, but we may find that there is a reasonable logic to it. Even the ideology of Hitler had a profound and persuasive logic, particularly in light of the decades between WWI and WWII. And, if we're to truly be any kind of an agent of beneficent change, I think having those appreciations is absolutely necessary.

    And, truth be told, we're all SJWs to some degree, or we're dead. It's just that we don't all define social justice in the same way. We're all working and struggling for a better world, even if it's just narrowly scoped to ourselves and maybe our own loved ones.

    I've also got all kinds of thoughts rattling around regarding my own struggles with my view of social justice, but I think I'll leave it where it is.

    -----------

    Y'all Take Care,
    Elroy
    Last edited by Elroy; May 10th, 2020 at 01:49 PM.
    Any software I post in these forums written by me is provided "AS IS" without warranty of any kind, expressed or implied, and permission is hereby granted, free of charge and without restriction, to any person obtaining a copy. To all, peace and happiness.

  13. #13
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    38,989

    Re: Apology Accepted

    Quote Originally Posted by Elroy View Post
    Ok, I'll admit it ... I'm a "Yellow Dog Democrat".
    Elroy
    Just to focus on this one line, are you a golden retriever, or yellow lab? Cause....I've got this tennis ball...
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  14. #14
    PowerPoster
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Modesto, Ca.
    Posts
    5,196

    Re: Apology Accepted

    SJW???

    Some Jerk Wad

    Sad Jester Walking

    Silly Joking Wes

  15. #15
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    An obscure body in the SK system. The inhabitants call it Earth
    Posts
    7,900

    Re: Apology Accepted

    Social Justice Warrior. Depending on who's saying it, it either means someone who's willing to stand up for the downtrodden e.g. by calling out racism, misogyny etc. when they see it; or it means an interfering busy body who loudly declares their outrage at anyone who doesn't exactly meet the SJW's moral standard, mostly in service of their own ego.

    Both of these types of people certainly exist. The former are really useful people and deserve praise (I'd like to think I am one). I wish the latter would just shut up and go away because they don't actually help the debate or move us to a resolution.

    I think Elroy actually summed up my position very well right here: "I think there's value in doing the hard work to understand the other side's point-of-view." It's very easy to identify people who's values or politics differ from our own as evil and/or stupid but it's lazy and dangerous to do so. We basically all want the same thing, a happy and healthy society, we just differ on the best ways of achieving it and the fact that someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they're "bad", it just means they have a different opinion.

    We should be engaging and debating the counter point of view, not condemning and dismissing it. But to engage requires work. It needs emotional and intellectual investment. And in the age of social media, that effort is rarely rewarded while outrage generally evokes immediate validation.
    Last edited by FunkyDexter; May 11th, 2020 at 02:16 AM.
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter - Winston Churchill

    Hadoop actually sounds more like the way they greet each other in Yorkshire - Inferrd

  16. #16
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2002
    Location
    Idaho
    Posts
    38,989

    Re: Apology Accepted

    Outrage also ties people to social media platforms. A whole lot of what you encounter is designed to cause outrage, as that will keep you engaged. As long as the platforms the majority use are designed to whip them up against all other groups, we can expect that polarization will increase.

    By the way I'm anti social media.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  17. #17
    PowerPoster
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    NYC
    Posts
    5,651

    Re: Apology Accepted

    Just wanted to jump in because I think 'SJW' refers to a very specific type of person.

    I'm way out there to the left on most issues (my preferred candidate was Sanders), but also routinely stand up to the particular type of what I consider a betrayal of liberal values found in a person that could be described as 'SJW'.

    I'd describe an SJW as someone who, with mostly good intentions, and in response to very real and serious historical injustices, wishes to continue the general philosophy of those injustices, but with the identity groups swapped, in a fundamental rejection of neutrally applied civil rights that will ultimately harm the very imbalance they seek to improve.

    To me the criticism is important, because I believe holding people generally in alignment with me most of the time accountable for undermining the principles that will achieve our shared goal is perhaps even more important than wasting time trying to convert someone who wholesale rejects my values.

    Let me give an example: Affirmative action. Someone describable as an SJW will not only support this, but paint all critics as racists, regardless of their reasoning.

    I'd argue that affirmative action is a fundamental rejection of the principle that everyone should be judged equally regardless of their skin color, and that endorsing an affirmative value on someones skin color undermines the goal by creating an opening to claim that the value is just as properly placed on the privileged group. This isn't to say that the disparity in objective measures is something that should be ignored, as arguments from the right will often conclude, but rather, to address the disparity, it is properly done by identifying, examining, and ultimately solving the root causes. Since I reject any argument for genetic differences significant enough to account for an objective-measure disparity, as almost everyone can agree on, not only does it void the equal treatment principle, it does extreme disservice to the underperforming groups by endorsing the soft bigotry of low expectations--- that some groups are fundamentally incapable of performing at the same level as others, so should be judged under a different standard, instead of working relentlessly to address the root cause until there no longer exists any difference in objective measures.

    So while SJWs share my goal of eliminating the lesser success of some groups, their chosen path of rejecting the principle of equality will ultimately exacerbate it and harm the group they seek to help. What puts them firmly in the 'SJW' field is smearing a position like I've articulated as racist.
    Last edited by fafalone; May 13th, 2020 at 12:30 AM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  



Click Here to Expand Forum to Full Width