Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

[Shaggy Hiker]

So definitely appropriately named then

I started out be saying that it didn't do anything useful, but that just seemed wrong in two different ways.

[dilettante]

Ouch:

[sapator]

Boooo.
We want DR Fat.
DR Fat!DR Fat!DR Fat!

[PlausiblyDamp]

I agree but there hasn't been a report of a flu - flu genesis that works the opposite way around and covid isn't something that will break the rules.
If that should happen, why it shouldn't be also happening on flu 's that are decades around? I'm just saying.
I also agree that there will be better vaccines in time, right now we are using that thrombosis pericarditis piece of crap and medical companies are laughing in bathtubs full of dollars.
Here is a research on sciencemag showing that natural immunity is eons better than vaccinating. Now, I don't say get the flue but what I could say is that people that do not have medical issues and of lower age should definitely NOT vaccinate.
https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2021...ection-parties

The natural immunity does involve surviving covid after catching it, which is a considerably higher risk than taking the vaccine however.

https://www.iflscience.com/health-an...Q4mjt-XqG7RUZI seems to indicate the risks from the vaccine are actually remarkably low.

[sapator]

That is to be determined in the long run.
So it's a risk, you do as you feel as it's your body, but that does not seem to be the case on many countries that are pushing the vaccine by force in a new neo Nazi fascist way.

[sapator]

Having said that.
Today at 7 we have a huge (hopefully) protest on main Athens square of Syntagma against mandatory vaccination.
I'm not sure the dictator idiot is in Athens, probably on vacation on Greek islands but he will get the message.
I'm on Evia so I won't be there but most of the people are returning from their summer vacations so I'm hoping for a bigger crowd than the previous protests.
Will see....

[sapator]

You don't get much of those people in the world and luckily we have one:
DR Dimitrios Kouvelas,
Consultant of the Pharmaceutical Industry in matters of Research and Development of Medicines, vaccines, diagnostics, medical devices, devices, etc.
https://www.clinicalpharmacology.gr/viografiko/

"This is inconceivable, never happened again , that's why we are talking about perversion of the medical thought and practice. Vaccinated must have been few not many , if they caught a mutation they are in danger."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnB9Pw5oEOE

There is a problem. It's in Greek. If you are able to auto translate (as Greek language is like this in transalations: fshdfhfshuner7ne47n4tyyrm8rmg8yimerrege) fine else I'm happy to translate any part for you.

[sapator]

Sooo.
Business as usual, we protest, the Nazis send the police to hit us.
But I'm extremely happy for Salonika protest. People went out of the government channel in Salonika yelling Beep Beep journalists.
Yeah! Better late than never, people are waking up. Nazi channels pushing mandatory vaccination are getting a taste of what will be.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfGhQy8YZDE

And on Syntagma square in Athens. Miitsootaki gamieeesaii.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sho3Ppb8j-o

[Shaggy Hiker]

You have better chanters than we have.

I have long felt that the US is kind of chant challenged. We always go back to the same chant, just with different words. I think we can do better. I'd like to hear a two part harmony form of chant.

[sapator]

https://pillarsofeternity.fandom.com/wiki/Chanter

Btw strongly recommend for RPG gamers.

[wes4dbt]

A lot of the vaccine hesitancy in the US has been blame on politics but I think the media also plays a major role. Every day you'll see a headline like,

"COVID-19 live updates: Vaccines appear less effective at preventing hospitalization under delta, CDC says"

https://abcnews.go.com/Health/live-u...s/?id=79720727

Though the headline is true, the article is mainly talking about people 75 and over, also the effectiveness only dropped to @ 80%. But if you don't actually read the articles, these type of headline surely will make some people hesitant or think the vaccine doesn't help. Still, if you consider the effectiveness of not getting vaccinated is 0%, I don't understand their reasoning.

[dilettante]

Along the same lines:

[sapator]

Japan suspends 1.6 million Moderna doses over contamination fears

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-58338281

[sapator]

Soo.
El dictador decided to send to unemployment the doctors and any medical personnel that did not got vaccinated.
But now doctors are beginning to talk and boy do the talk, that was the wrong move dictator. Mmhhhmm.
So in some hospitals, especially on islands, there is zero doctors on some fields. For example in Lesvos there is no oncologist and brain surgeon. Nice going dictator.

[Shaggy Hiker]

We're losing them, too, but it's from burnout. The hospitals in parts of this state have been overwhelmed. We're shipping people a long ways away to hospitals that have capacity. The death toll is rising, once again, too, and some reports show it to being 10:1 unvaccinated. So, hospital staff are basically being swamped by people who are there because they didn't believe. Some still don't.

[TysonLPrice]

Soo.
El dictador decided to send to unemployment the doctors and any medical personnel that did not got vaccinated.
But now doctors are beginning to talk and boy do the talk, that was the wrong move dictator. Mmhhhmm.
So in some hospitals, especially on islands, there is zero doctors on some fields. For example in Lesvos there is no oncologist and brain surgeon. Nice going dictator.

I wouldn't want to be treated by any doctors or medical personnel that didn't get vaccinated. Personally I think that is the right move.

[sapator]

And I would want to be treated on doctors that possibly have AIDS or flu or the measles. What kind of logic is that?
BTW what was the 3rd dose vaccine you did? The 3rd dose is not available yet, so did you ever found out what you vaccinated with?

[TysonLPrice]

And I would want to be treated on doctors that possibly have AIDS or flu or the measles. What kind of logic is that?
BTW what was the 3rd dose vaccine you did? The 3rd dose is not available yet, so did you ever found out what you vaccinated with?

If a Doctor doesn't want to take the vaccinate, and still treat people, I question his credentials. Unless he is a witch doctor.

I got the Pfizer. The third dose is absolutely available and approved in the U.S. I was eligible because I'm over sixty-five with an immune deficiency. Why do you think it is not available?

[sapator]

Well that is your opinion and you are welcome to it. Doctors that did not vaccinated are left without a job to help their family.
Because of the vaccine. That is fascist to say the least for me.

That's not on my knowledge but:

For the people who received the mRNA vaccines, boosters will begin to be available on Sept. 20. The first people to qualify for a third dose will include “many health care providers, nursing home residents, and other seniors,” then “residents of long-term care facilities.”

Sounds like somebody may have gotten a dose of something, but what is open to conjecture.

That's dilettante and I admit I thought that the 3rd dose in not available yet.So...

[TysonLPrice]

Well that is your opinion and you are welcome to it. Doctors that did not vaccinated are left without a job to help their family.
Because of the vaccine. That is fascist to say the least for me.

That's not on my knowledge but:

For the people who received the mRNA vaccines, boosters will begin to be available on Sept. 20. The first people to qualify for a third dose will include “many health care providers, nursing home residents, and other seniors,” then “residents of long-term care facilities.”



That's dilettante and I admit I thought that the 3rd dose in not available yet.So...

You wouldn't want to live in the U.S. then...a very large number of employers are requiring it now that it is approved. Required vaccinations are nothing new in this country.

For the people who received the mRNA vaccines, boosters will begin to be available on Sept. 20. The first people to qualify for a third dose will include “many health care providers, nursing home residents, and other seniors,” then “residents of long-term care facilities.”

That is for "normal" people. People at risk have been eligible for many weeks now.

[sapator]

True, I wouldn't want to live there and I wouldn't want to live here also but that is for political reason. AKA politicians the scourge of humanity.
But since I live here I will fight the traitors in hope of a better government.

If you say it's eligible for high risk people then I have no reason to doubt it. I was just concerned on what vaccine you did as I am for most people here, that I respect, apart from the "friendly" fights etc.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Naturally, a third dose will become available as soon as possible. Even the cynics agree on that: Selling third doses to richer countries beats selling first doses to poor ones.

I'm not thrilled with that situation, but it's certainly happening. From the sound of it, I may become eligible for a third dose in December, and even though I'm not thrilled that we're pushing to the front of the queue, I'll get that third dose when I can, because things are starting to suck around here, and I'll do what little I can.

As for requiring doctors to get vaccinated. Yeah, one might well say it's authoritarian, but one might also say it's life. We already require doctors to do all kinds of things, and if they don't, they are most certainly out of a job. This is just one more, and a pretty minor one, on a long list of requirements for them to practice medicine (and with enough practice, maybe they'll get good at it).

[sapator]

So out of curiosity, is there another vaccine that is mandatory for doctors in USA? Because here we never had a fluish mandatory one.

[Shaggy Hiker]

I'm not sure. Virtually everybody in the US was immunized with the MMR vaccine (at least those below a certain age...which is perhaps in the 60s, by now), so that one may be kind of automatic. The military requires a series of vaccinations, and that gets to the bigger point. I don't see any federal requirements on mandatory vaccinations, not for MMR (measles, mumps and rubella) or COVID. Vaccine mandates tend to happen at the business level. A doctor in private practice can probably do whatever they want, but a doctor working in a hospital probably cannot, and since virtually every doctor would probably start out working in a hospital, there may be a de facto mandate without a true mandate.

That's how COVID mandates are going, as well. It's employers making the decision, not state or federal governments.

[TysonLPrice]

I'm not sure. Virtually everybody in the US was immunized with the MMR vaccine (at least those below a certain age...which is perhaps in the 60s, by now), so that one may be kind of automatic. The military requires a series of vaccinations, and that gets to the bigger point. I don't see any federal requirements on mandatory vaccinations, not for MMR (measles, mumps and rubella) or COVID. Vaccine mandates tend to happen at the business level. A doctor in private practice can probably do whatever they want, but a doctor working in a hospital probably cannot, and since virtually every doctor would probably start out working in a hospital, there may be a de facto mandate without a true mandate.

That's how COVID mandates are going, as well. It's employers making the decision, not state or federal governments.

I believe the military is going to be required to get them. That's Federal.

[wes4dbt]

So out of curiosity, is there another vaccine that is mandatory for doctors in USA? Because here we never had a fluish mandatory one.

My daughter is a nurse and there are mandatory vaccinations. Can't remember what they were and don't want to guess. But I remember asking. She is also required to be tested periodically for things like tuberculosis.

[techgnome]

I believe the military is going to be required to get them. That's Federal.

But it's still at the organization/employer-employee level. It's a case of the Federal Government is your employer and your employer is requiring it. It's not you work for Microsoft but the Federal Government is requiring it. Even then, it's not the entire Federal Govt, but still each section - in this case Dept of Defense. To be honest, I'm not sure what USPS is doing... of the Dept of Interior, or the National Parks system either for that matter...

-tg

[sapator]

So consider this.
Vaccines that are being tested for decades and are for diseases lethal above the 10.0 point may or may not be mandatory (by your posts) on medical personnel and a vaccine for a flue that is below the 0.5 point that is tested for a year and have divided people is required to be mandatory for a wider range of personnel . Isn't there something wrong going on here?
Take apart all the sentimental thoughts and view this by pure logic.
Also a vaccine that is so widely available on million and million of doses have gained a price uplift by medical companies. Doesn't that smell a rat?
Again sentimental apart.
Finally an 1 year old vaccine is suggested to children for immunity build instead of natural immunity (that is for Greece, don't know on US). Amazing.

P.S. In Greece no vaccine is mandatory and I'm inclined to believe that the same goes for US as there a treaties specify this. I'm talking about government mantatoration... Then again... You people over there are ooodddd, so might have broken a treaty

[Shaggy Hiker]

Well, you have a bit of a point there, but some of the numbers are off. For one thing, none of us are quite sure who is mandating what, when it comes to vaccines. The US military is mandating vaccines, but they always have, and that makes a whole lot of sense. They don't know where they are going, so I expect that they have a higher vaccination requirement than most employers. I know there are some that require certain shots for going over seas to some places, and the military probably requires the same for the same reasons.

The bottom line, though, is that we aren't sure what is mandatory and where.

Second, the MMR vaccine isn't a vaccination against diseases that are...well, okay, after re-reading it, I'm not even sure what you were saying there. I read it as lethal above 10%. Mumps has a fatality rate that is FAR lower than COVID, at 1.6-3.8% per 10,000 (which means it's down around 0.0016 to 0.0038%, which I think makes it lower than seasonal flu). Measles is down around 0.1% mortality, and rubella is around 0.02%. So, COVID is FAR more lethal than any of those, yet that's the MMR vaccine that every child gets with few exceptions, and has since the 70s.

The point you made that is right is that the COVID vaccine hasn't been around for all that long, because of course it couldn't be. However, in that time, it has been studied pretty extensively, and the Pfizer vaccine now has full, formal, approval by the US CDC.

Still, there IS that division. It isn't so much a division about the vaccine, though. There are people who are opposed to ALL vaccines, but that's really a different matter. Sure, they're opposed to the COVID vaccine, that's just a matter of consistency. What's pretty unique about COVID, at least in the US, is that believing in the disease itself is a source of division. The level of misinformation and disinformation around the disease AND the vaccine is at levels that have never been seen before.

That's what's unusual. The rest is pretty mundane.

[sapator]

Yes I was giving examples, I admin I did not study the mortality rates as I don't know what are included as the mandatory vaccines there. What are the mandatories anyone can someone answer this?
But the point is the 1 year vax as you say. Also I was in the army here, you could decline a vaccine if you did not wanted to do it but since I served younger and we did not have the flue thing we kinda accepted any vaccine like idiots. But most of them where for scurvy (scurvyyyy arrrrgg) , food digestion stuff and another one that I did NOT do as everyone hands where inflating when they did that and I'm still not sure what the heck was that thing.
They where kinda mandatory but not really.
I also remember the day that a new batch of vaccines came and the officers where vaxing themselves laughing but whoever wanted to vax where welcome. I did not do those.

[dilettante]

I'm also seeing some bizarre waffling going on in the media. it runs something like:

"Hey, there are people who got COVID and recovered, and now they have immunity. Stop shaming people who refuse to be vaccinated."

Well sure, there are certainly some. But it doesn't include Neighborhood Crazy Joe who claims he's had it 5 times already. And it doesn't have very much to do with anything anyway.

So what's motivating this?

[sapator]

Yes! Dr Fat!

Let's gooooo!!!

[Shaggy Hiker]

Yes I was giving examples, I admin I did not study the mortality rates as I don't know what are included as the mandatory vaccines there. What are the mandatories anyone can someone answer this?
But the point is the 1 year vax as you say. Also I was in the army here, you could decline a vaccine if you did not wanted to do it but since I served younger and we did not have the flue thing we kinda accepted any vaccine like idiots. But most of them where for scurvy (scurvyyyy arrrrgg) , food digestion stuff and another one that I did NOT do as everyone hands where inflating when they did that and I'm still not sure what the heck was that thing.
They where kinda mandatory but not really.
I also remember the day that a new batch of vaccines came and the officers where vaxing themselves laughing but whoever wanted to vax where welcome. I did not do those.

Well, that's probably true here, as well: Things are mandatory...unless you don't want to, then they aren't.

I don't know if there are ANY vaccines that are mandatory for the general public in the US. I believe there are not. Employers can mandate whatever they want, and that's different. There are vaccinations that are strongly encouraged for kids, which I believe included MMR and polio when I was a kid. Clearly, there isn't anybody forcing MMR on people, because there have been measles outbreaks, recently due to anti-vaxx pockets. There may also be a further vaccine that is recommended, which prevents some kinds of cancers, especially in women. That one is controversial because the US always gets it's undies in a twist when sex is mentioned, but it's cancer....yeesh.

[wes4dbt]

SH,

This headline is about Idaho, https://apnews.com/article/business-...183dcbf03a8254

The chart of the US is nice, just move your mouse over a state and see the % of ICU beds in use.

Another 1,500 died of COVID today in the US, almost all unvaccinated. All these unnecessary deaths, it's crazy.

[Shaggy Hiker]

And there's even a hint in there of the amazing election we're going to have next year.

[dilettante]

It's difficult to penetrate the thick accents and Commonwealth Pidgin idiom, but it sounds like there is quite a split in Australia about "coming out of the cave." I can't quite follow all of it but there seem to be regional differences based largely on recent infection levels vs. economic and social impacts.




I think that was mostly the 1st half, the rest rambling around other topics like climate change and bailing out of Afghanistan.

[sapator]

The dictator did not think it through.
Now doctors , professors of medicine and stuff personnel are talking. If I putted 30% of what is been said over here these days you probably think that I am an anti vaxer

Here is a clip showing a German doctor examination of vaxbies blood. Now I can not cross reference so it may or may not be true but , do vaxbies glow in the dark? Can you close the light and test?

https://www.brighteon.com/29e1f9b2-5...9-625bc5348140

[sapator]

Vaccines may be revamped to avoid blood clots.
So according to them the vaccine DO cause blood clots. So now they are fixing the poison you got injected with, one might say.Hmm?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg4MABhdJPY

I would also like to point the re-VAMP-ing , Vaxpires!!!
Vaxpires or Vaxbies? I'm in a dilemma now...

[Shaggy Hiker]

Vaccines may be revamped to avoid blood clots.
So according to them the vaccine DO cause blood clots. So now they are fixing the poison you got injected with, one might say.Hmm?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mg4MABhdJPY

I would also like to point the re-VAMP-ing , Vaxpires!!!
Vaxpires or Vaxbies? I'm in a dilemma now...

Some vaccines (AstraZeneca and J&J) do appear to have a very rare incidence of clotting. COVID itself has an even greater chance of clotting. The two may be related. After all, those two vaccines use the dead virus approach, as opposed to the mRNA approach, so they are more like COVID itself. Since COVID causes blood clots, and nobody yet knows why, it's possible that whatever it is about COVID that causes blood clots might also exist with those vaccines due to the approach taken.

So, yeah, there's a risk with the vaccines, but it's a tiny fraction of the exact same risk from COVID itself. Depending on the exact risk, one study is showing that the vaccines caused troubles in 66 out of 10 million, while COVID itself caused the same trouble in 12,000+ our of 10 million. That means that you are VASTLY better off with the vaccine.

EDIT: Here's a link for you: https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/27/covi...isk-study.html

[sapator]

I don't get it.
So since covid causes trouble we add to that with vaccination?Also I did not state a number and we are talking about one of the many side effects.
Also I'm almost certain that you are wrong about the dead virus approach. The 2 that are not MR.Nay are something similar but not the dead virus. That one is the Chinese.
I'm not sure how to search that but I'm almost certain I listened to a genetic engineer saying that. Here, you can try an opposite search for a change if the 2 vax are similar to Mr.Nay.

I'm also curious how we end up with the rare and 66 of a mil numbers. Since the vax issues are reported to VAERS and you do not accept VAERS, how would you know the numbers?