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Thread: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

  1. #1121
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    That's appalling! Especially given that she's front line medical staff. I hope she turns out OK and my thoughts are with her.
    Thanks FD, fortunately after 5 days her fever is gone and she is feeling better. But because of the difficulty to get tested, she has no idea if it was COVID - 19 or some other bug. Unfortunately, the administrators at the hospital where she works at pretty slimy people. Since the start of the pandemic they have done all they could to withhold PPE even when it clearly violated the established procedures for working with infectious patients. When an employee does get infected, they try and withhold workers compensation benefits saying they can't prove they got infected at the hospital.

    To be honest she is dreading going back to work on the 8th. In the last two weeks the hospitalizations have jumped from 56 to 121 COVID patients. ICU is @ 70% full. With the spiking cases in our area these may be going up significantly in the next couple of weeks.

    Please everyone do all the health care workers a favor and wear a mask. They have to wear one 12hrs a day while working, surely you can handle wearing one for and hour while your shopping.

    Sorry for preaching (not really) lol

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    All of the talk about mask shortages was probably about the N95 and similar types.

    Simple "one use" paper masks were being doled out like candy here when I was going to the Wound Clinic here in March and then when I was admitted to the hospital in April. Followup doctor visits since then involve going through a screening station where they'll offer you another if you don't bring your own face covering.

    I keep one in the car and 3 more here at home. I seldom go out anyway, but when I do I have a mask to hand. I'm not too worried about them wearing out and they always dry thoroughly between uses anyway. The one in the car sees long stretches of high temperatures (black car, sits in the sun many hours each day).

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    I wonder how much of the recent rises in cases might be due to increased use of air conditioning as the weather warmed up? More people huddling inside with windows closed.

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    None at all in Idaho, I'd say. We've had an impressively cool and wet spring. We did get a few hot days in there, but I've almost turned my heat back on at couple times in late May and throughout June. For us, it's hard to see the rise as being related to anything other than the reopening. A few dozen cases were traced back to a pair of individual bars that managed to each host a super spreader.
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  5. #1125
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Here in Ca. one of the major concerns of the Governor is 4th of July family gathering. I can see his point, my GUESS is that there wouldn't be a lot of mask wearing at family gatherings. With 9,000+ new cases yesterday and hospitalizations on the rise it seems like we're in a very fragile situation. But like usual it will take two or three weeks to see the results. Seems like that's my favorite phrase, "we'll see in two or three weeks".

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Yeah, it looks like most of the highly inflamed states are only now approaching the peak of their first wave.

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    Funny how many states have a similar daily cases curve and others followed a different curve in common.

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    I wonder how much of the recent rises in cases might be due to increased use of air conditioning as the weather warmed up? More people huddling inside with windows closed.
    I wonder how much cases are going to go up with Trump's Mount Rushmore event?
    Please remember next time...elections matter!

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by TysonLPrice View Post
    I wonder how much cases are going to go up with Trump's Mount Rushmore event?
    Ole Pumpkin Head wants a second term and he doesn't care how many people he kills to get it.

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Is air conditioning helping spread COVID in the South?

    “As people go indoors in hot weather and the rebreathed air fraction goes up, the risk of infection is quite dramatic,” Nardell said, adding that the data, while gathered related to tuberculosis, would apply to any infection with airborne potential.

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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Sure, but since the rises are not just in areas that are doing a lot of air conditioning, that can't account for more than a small fraction of the rises. After all the rise is being seen without air conditioning, and when you take that amount out of the rise seen in the south, you end up with the rise that can be due to air conditioning, and that can't be all that much.

    Besides, for the years I lived in south Florida, I only remember being able to turn off the air conditioner for a few days each year, and that was in late December and early January, before the virus showed up. South Florida is one of the places that is seeing a rise, now, but didn't see a huge initial outbreak, despite the fact that most everybody would have been using air conditioners since February.

    So, while it does make sense, I don't buy it as a significant factor in the recent outbreaks.
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Since we know a lot of things now "minimizing spread" doesn't make sense as a strategy.

    Controlling spread could help keep the rate of serious cases down to a level where heath care services can assist those people without becoming overwhelmed.

    However the only way out of this is for most people to have antibodies for the disease and in practical terms that means becoming infected. Trying to hide from it only prolongs the agony... unless you think we can do that long enough for everyone to be vaccinated with one of the vaccines still under development and testing.

    Aside from the misery from the infection itself there is the economic agony. Some try to paint that as a "fat cat's issue" but when people can't pay rent and buy food it gets pretty ugly on a human scale. Government subsidies tend to run out at some point and a lot of folks just fall through the holes in the first place.

    So we need people to get infected even as much as we hate the idea. The problem with a controlled burn is the risk of wildfire.

  12. #1132
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    It's probably getting a bit safer, too, but only a bit. The longer we wait, the better the care will get for those who do get infected. Perhaps we can get the death rate down before we catch it.
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Whew!!!!

    It is not as bad as everybody thought

    https://www.politico.com/news/2020/0...fection-348954

    “Now we have tested almost 40 million people … by so doing, we show cases 99 percent of which are totally harmless,” Trump said Saturday in a speech at the White House marking Independence Day celebrations.
    Please remember next time...elections matter!

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Yeah, I've tried to stop listening to any thing he says, I'm able to keep my anger issues under control if I just change the channel as soon as he comes on. True Story lol

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Brazilian experts said that the new coronavirus was already in the sewers last November. This shows that people have been carrying this virus a long time ago. People were infected but not diagnosed because we knew nothing about the new virus.

    https://weibo.com/tv/show/1034:45234...d_pc_videoshow

    My opinion is that the virus has spread throughout the world in 2019 and was brought into Wuhan during the World Military Games in October 2019. This is just my guess, there is no conclusive scientific evidence, but more and more phenomena seem to indirectly prove my guess.

    Another conjecture related to my conjecture is that the greenhouse effect caused by the three world fires (in Australia, Brazil, and California) in 2019 increased the thawing of glaciers and the migration of birds, which may be one of the reasons for the emergence of the virus.
    Last edited by dreammanor; Jul 5th, 2020 at 10:37 PM.

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Google Translate:

    [Oxford University expert: The new crown virus may not have originated in China. It has existed all over the world, but it is in a dormant state; when the environment permits, these dormant viruses will be stimulated] The Daily News, the most authoritative national newspaper in the United Kingdom "On July 5, an exclusive article was published saying that more and more evidence shows that the virus existed in other parts of the world before the emergence of Asia. "I think the virus already exists and can be said to be ubiquitous. What we are seeing may be a dormant virus activated by environmental conditions," said Dr. Tom Jefferson, senior associate lecturer at the Evidence-Based Medicine Center at Oxford University. "The virus was already here, here meaning everywhere. We may be seeing a dormant virus that has been activated by environmental conditions." He believes that the virus may be present in frozen food: otherwise you cannot explain it on cruise ships and on the Falkland Islands How did the virus come about. "You have to build assumptions based on facts, not find facts based on assumptions." (You question people, and you start constructing hypotheses that fit the facts, not the other way around) Dr. Jefferson believes that many viruses are dormant around the world and only appear when conditions are favorable. He also said that this is not an isolated case. In 1918, about 30% of the population of the Pacific island country of Western Samoa died of the Spanish flu, and they did not have any contact with the outside world at that time. Back to the moment, Italian scientists found coronavirus in sewage samples from Milan and Turin in mid-December; last week, Spanish virologists announced that they detected new coronavirus in wastewater samples collected in March 2019. This time Coronavirus disease was discovered 9 months earlier in China. Dr. Jefferson believes that the new coronavirus may be transmitted through sewage systems or public toilet facilities, not just through droplets sprayed when talking, coughing and sneezing. When the sewage reaches 4 degrees Celsius, it will produce high concentration of wastewater, which is the ideal temperature to stabilize the virus and may be activated.
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by dreammanor View Post
    Brazilian experts said that the new coronavirus was already in the sewers last November. This shows that people have been carrying this virus a long time ago. People were infected but not diagnosed because we knew nothing about the new virus.

    https://weibo.com/tv/show/1034:45234...d_pc_videoshow

    My opinion is that the virus has spread throughout the world in 2019 and was brought into Wuhan during the World Military Games in October 2019. This is just my guess, there is no conclusive scientific evidence, but more and more phenomena seem to indirectly prove my guess.

    Another conjecture related to my conjecture is that the greenhouse effect caused by the three world fires (in Australia, Brazil, and California) in 2019 increased the thawing of glaciers and the migration of birds, which may be one of the reasons for the emergence of the virus.
    Isn't that the same thing you posted a week or two ago? Have they been peer reviewed now and had someone else verify the findings? If so, that is definitely interesting. I wonder what made it blow up when it hit China then, or if the world has been 'ignoring' (for lack of a better word) these pneumonia cases for over a year.

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by dreammanor View Post
    Google Translate:

    [Oxford University expert: The new crown virus may not have originated in China. It has existed all over the world, but it is in a dormant state; when the environment permits, these dormant viruses will be stimulated] The Daily News, the most authoritative national newspaper in the United Kingdom "On July 5, an exclusive article was published saying that more and more evidence shows that the virus existed in other parts of the world before the emergence of Asia. "I think the virus already exists and can be said to be ubiquitous. What we are seeing may be a dormant virus activated by environmental conditions," said Dr. Tom Jefferson, senior associate lecturer at the Evidence-Based Medicine Center at Oxford University. "The virus was already here, here meaning everywhere. We may be seeing a dormant virus that has been activated by environmental conditions." He believes that the virus may be present in frozen food: otherwise you cannot explain it on cruise ships and on the Falkland Islands How did the virus come about. "You have to build assumptions based on facts, not find facts based on assumptions." (You question people, and you start constructing hypotheses that fit the facts, not the other way around) Dr. Jefferson believes that many viruses are dormant around the world and only appear when conditions are favorable. He also said that this is not an isolated case. In 1918, about 30% of the population of the Pacific island country of Western Samoa died of the Spanish flu, and they did not have any contact with the outside world at that time. Back to the moment, Italian scientists found coronavirus in sewage samples from Milan and Turin in mid-December; last week, Spanish virologists announced that they detected new coronavirus in wastewater samples collected in March 2019. This time Coronavirus disease was discovered 9 months earlier in China. Dr. Jefferson believes that the new coronavirus may be transmitted through sewage systems or public toilet facilities, not just through droplets sprayed when talking, coughing and sneezing. When the sewage reaches 4 degrees Celsius, it will produce high concentration of wastewater, which is the ideal temperature to stabilize the virus and may be activated.

    I thought we already knew that? The virus has never been stated as a new virus, just the transmission to humans is new. It would make sense that you can find the virus in other places, what would really make a difference is if they found human to human transmission in the past.

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by kfcSmitty View Post
    Isn't that the same thing you posted a week or two ago?
    The last post was new coronavirus detected in Spain's sewage in March 2019, this time in Brazil.

    Quote Originally Posted by kfcSmitty View Post
    I wonder what made it blow up when it hit China then...
    Originally, there was no blowing up. At that time, Wuhan just had some unidentified pneumonia, just like the rest of the world, without serious impact. But rumors and panic caused hundreds of thousands (or even millions) to flock to hospitals at the same time and caused the collapse of medical resources, and caused a large number of medical staff to be infected. These infected medical staff further infected people who came to the hospital for testing, which caused a pandemic of the disease in WuHan.

    Quote Originally Posted by kfcSmitty View Post
    ... or if the world has been 'ignoring' (for lack of a better word) these pneumonia cases for over a year.
    Under normal circumstances, it will take 3-4 months to detect and determine the new virus. The anti-epidemic agencies in many countries do not pay much attention to this. They did not tested it, or had tested it but didn't know it was a new virus. The Chinese government has concentrated all resources to detect and determine that it is a new virus within 3 weeks.
    Last edited by dreammanor; Jul 6th, 2020 at 12:24 AM.

  21. #1141
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    I am pretty sure they said that to reassure the population because we didn't have masks.
    Yeah, I feel like that. I think they were primarily discouraging mask use because they didn't want a run on them to deprive the health services.

    edit> That's what happens when you don't notice that a whole page of posts have been added since you read the thread last. You quote a post a whole page old.
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  22. #1142
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by dreammanor View Post
    Originally, there was no blowing up. At that time, Wuhan just had some unidentified pneumonia, just like the rest of the world, without serious impact. But rumors and panic caused hundreds of thousands (or even millions) to flock to hospitals at the same time and caused the collapse of medical resources, and caused a large number of medical staff to be infected. These infected medical staff further infected people who came to the hospital for testing, which caused a pandemic of the disease in WuHan.
    That still doesn't make sense to me.

    The CDC (as well as other countries) are reporting, across the board, that death rates have gone up over the past few months vs the same period last year, and the growth has been outside the margin of error/possible random flux from year to year. If this highly contagious virus was going around the US last year, the numbers should be fairly similar, or even lower right now since people are taking percautions like social distancing and wearing masks.

    Also, random question here: but if the virus came from bats like has been suggested, I wonder if it is possible that the amounts being found in these sewage tests could have been from people with bats and the general cleaning of the cages. Were the samples confirmed to have been from humans, or is it possible it came from another animal that the virus normally spreads through?

  23. #1143
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    The new crown virus may not have originated in China. It has existed all over the world, but it is in a dormant state;
    This looks like misinterpretation of information to me, we know that the virus and many others circulate in animals this is not new information and they will circulate in animals outside of China as well as inside.

    That doesn't change the fact what happened in China was that the Virus mutated and became transmissible to Humans.

    This fact has been used by many to then bash China and try to fix all the blame for what has happened on them and while China is not blameless, for many of us my country included our own politicians pandemic planning and response has been lacking and has been in major factor in the spread of the Virus.

    Also, random question here: but if the virus came from bats like has been suggested, I wonder if it is possible that the amounts being found in these sewage tests could have been from people with bats and the general cleaning of the cages. Were the samples confirmed to have been from humans, or is it possible it came from another animal that the virus normally spreads through?
    The virus mutated to become what we now know as Covid-19, so its not the same as the virus in animals although related, and yes Scientists can tell the difference through genetic markers.
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  24. #1144
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Both Spain and Italy had large numbers of "casual workers" going to and fro from China for years. That's the accepted explanation for the sewage sample testing results.

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Both Spain and Italy had large numbers of "casual workers" going to and fro from China for years. That's the accepted explanation for the sewage sample testing results.
    But wouldn't we have seen more cases and an outbreak then? Like if it was even in China a year ago, shouldn't we have been seeing outbreaks and increased numbers of death then?

    Or are you thinking the virus mutated to be more transmissible during that time, and the version they're detecting is less transmissible?

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by kfcSmitty View Post
    But wouldn't we have seen more cases and an outbreak then? Like if it was even in China a year ago, shouldn't we have been seeing outbreaks and increased numbers of death then?

    Or are you thinking the virus mutated to be more transmissible during that time, and the version they're detecting is less transmissible?
    Seems like a puzzle either way, doesn't it? If it has been lurking around that long it makes you wonder why it took so long to start spreading and producing serious symptoms. Perhaps it was symptomatically more flu-like until a mutation occurred more recently?

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Looks like the pandemic offers cover for a lot of things:


  28. #1148
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    The virus has been around for a long time. There are numerous corona viruses out there. Some infect humans, some don't. They are all constantly changing via mutation. Something happened to cause a virus that previously hadn't done anything to humans to start doing something to humans. It happens all the time. Had the characteristics been different, we might have had SARS, which was readily containable and faded out quickly. Instead, we ended up with this one.

    As far as I can tell, the real point of all of this is that China doesn't want to be blamed for the virus, and feels that it is because it originated there. In fact, there IS one reason why they might deserve some geographic responsibility, but not cultural responsibility. The reason is that several of these viruses that moved into humans have been shown to have gone through some intermediate animal on the way. While this has not been shown for this virus, and any such intermediate has not been definitively identified, one candidate considered likely is the pangolin. Since that exists only in a small part of the world, then if there WAS an intermediate host, and that intermediate host was the pangolin, then the virus turned into this human-aggressive version in the region where the pangolin lives, and is brought into close contact with people. That's probably China.

    Of course, there's a lot of unknown in every step of that pathway.
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.


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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    As far as I can tell, the real point of all of this is that China doesn't want to be blamed for the virus, and feels that it is because it originated there. In fact, there IS one reason why they might deserve some geographic responsibility, but not cultural responsibility. The reason is that several of these viruses that moved into humans have been shown to have gone through some intermediate animal on the way. While this has not been shown for this virus, and any such intermediate has not been definitively identified, one candidate considered likely is the pangolin. Since that exists only in a small part of the world, then if there WAS an intermediate host, and that intermediate host was the pangolin, then the virus turned into this human-aggressive version in the region where the pangolin lives, and is brought into close contact with people. That's probably China.
    In a United Nations meeting (perhaps a WHO meeting, before the United States withdrew from WHO), more than 160 countries, including China and Russia, agreed to start investigating the origin of the virus, but the United States refused because the United States believed it would threaten the national security of the United States.

    As long as the United States does not cooperate with the investigation, the world will never know the true origin of the virus.

    If the United States cooperates with the resolutions of the United Nations, then people can clearly know the origin, transmission route and transmission time of the virus.

    If scientists can 100% confirm the origin of the virus (for example, it is determined to originate in China) and the route of transmission, then the Chinese government will 100% cooperate fully to formulate strict laws and measures to prevent the next new virus from harming humans.

    Although the Chinese government has formulated strict wildlife protection laws based on the COVID-19 epidemic, and has also eliminated some wild animal raw materials from traditional Chinese medicine, does this really solve the problem? I don't think so.

    Regardless of whether the virus originated in China, China will assume/bear its own responsibilities. But what about the United States? Is the US still the world leader?

    Again: As long as the United States does not cooperate with the investigation, the world will never know the true origin of the virus.
    Last edited by dreammanor; Jul 6th, 2020 at 09:05 PM.

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Maybe we should go back and look at #post1, how much of the information we accept is true?

    If we continue to anesthetize ourselves with false information, does everything we discuss make sense?

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    then the Chinese government will 100% cooperate fully to formulate strict laws and measures to prevent the next new virus from harming humans.
    They can't, that's the point. Virology is a chaos engine. We have no idea where the next pandemic will originate. We have no idea what transmission vector(s) it will use. We don't know what the symptoms will be, how virulent it will be or how deadly it will be.

    That's why blaming China for this virus is so bloody stupid. It probably originated in China (though we may still find it came from elsewhere) but frankly you could roll a dice as to where the next will come from.

    Perhaps China could have had higher hygiene standards in some of it's markets but the same and worse conditions exist throughout Africa and South America. And the West, with it's battery farming techniques and over reliance on hormones and anti-biotics, doesn't get to stand on any moral high ground either - we're just as likely to be the source next time.

    @Dil, I think this is why I find it so ridiculous when you accuse people of politicising the virus when they criticise Trump. Trump is the one that's politicising this... again.... and again... and again. People in this thread are simply calling him out on his BS. It's Trump that constantly strives to blame China for it. It's Trump that continues to downplay the impact of it. It's Trump who, until last week, demonised anyone who suggested wearing masks or pursuing lockdowns. It's Trump who holds mass indoor rallies (or tries to) in the middle of a mass epidemic and wanted us all to go to church for Easter. It's Trump that put his fingers in his ears and yelled "Nothing to see here - move along".

    I think Trump Derangement Syndrome definitely exists. But I think the symptoms are the exact opposite of what you think they are.
    Last edited by FunkyDexter; Jul 7th, 2020 at 02:50 AM.
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Hi FunkyDexter, thank you very much for understanding my point of view. I post some comments searching for the origin of the virus not to shirk responsibility for China. In fact, the Chinese government and Chinese people have already done what they can do. Not only that, China is also actively producing anti-epidemic materials for the world. A large number of materials are given away for free, especially to poor countries.

    From March 1 to May 31, China exported anti-epidemic materials to 200 countries and regions, including 70.6 billion masks, 340 million protective suits, 115 million goggles, 96,700 ventilators, and 225 million sets of test kits, 40.29 million infrared thermometers.

    I'm proud of my country.

    I post some comments searching for the origin of the virus in order to find a really effective way to defend against the virus. Although China has successfully controlled the virus (my children have been in school for several months and the public swimming pool next to my residence has been open for several weeks), the world is still suffering from the virus . Finding the origin of the virus may not really control the virus, but it can facilitate scientists to correct statistical data (such as infection rate and mortality rate) to make more effective protection guidelines. In addition, it can also effectively avoid the next virus outbreak (at least can provide some reference experience).

    There are always people here who guess others with malicious intent.

    I'm very busy, but I still take the time to post some comments on the Chat forum, I want to provide some information from a Chinese perspective. I got a lot of help from vbForums, and I hope to do something for this forum.

    In fact, I don't care about others criticizing and slandering China, because the outside world has been slandering and humiliating China for decades. We've be used to it.
    Last edited by dreammanor; Jul 7th, 2020 at 09:03 AM.

  34. #1154
    Wall Poster TysonLPrice's Avatar
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Is the US still the world leader?
    The answer is NO! Trump abrogated that responsibility. We may be big and powerful in many ways and Trump uses that to bully other nations into doing things but that is not leading.
    Please remember next time...elections matter!

  35. #1155
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by dreammanor View Post
    Hi FunkyDexter, thank you very much for understanding my point of view. I post some comments searching for the origin of the virus not to shirk responsibility for China.
    Well, it certainly comes across that way when you repeatedly insinuate that the virus came from somewhere else. There doesn't appear to be any question in the scientific literature, the question only appears to exist among those with a more political bent.

    I'm proud of my country.
    Yeah, that's clear. The Economist has suggested that the exported materials came with strings attached. The strings were essentially: Don't criticize us.

    I post some comments searching for the origin of the virus in order to find a really effective way to defend against the virus.
    Why? How would the origin have anything to do with defending against it? At this point, it's global and ubiquitous, so you aren't keeping it out. If the origin isn't bats, then so what? If this particular one didn't come from bats, there are plenty more in bats, thanks in part to their unusual immune system and lifestyle. The only thing that helps with is searching for the next one, but groups, including the research institution in Wuhan, are already doing that, and have been for a long time....didn't help this time, though.
    Finding the origin of the virus may not really control the virus, but it can facilitate scientists to correct statistical data (such as infection rate and mortality rate) to make more effective protection guidelines. In addition, it can also effectively avoid the next virus outbreak (at least can provide some reference experience).
    Yeah? How?
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  36. #1156
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Well, it certainly comes across that way when you repeatedly insinuate that the virus came from somewhere else. There doesn't appear to be any question in the scientific literature, the question only appears to exist among those with a more political bent.



    Yeah, that's clear. The Economist has suggested that the exported materials came with strings attached. The strings were essentially: Don't criticize us.



    Why? How would the origin have anything to do with defending against it? At this point, it's global and ubiquitous, so you aren't keeping it out. If the origin isn't bats, then so what? If this particular one didn't come from bats, there are plenty more in bats, thanks in part to their unusual immune system and lifestyle. The only thing that helps with is searching for the next one, but groups, including the research institution in Wuhan, are already doing that, and have been for a long time....didn't help this time, though.


    Yeah? How?
    Why don't you produce some materials with strings?

    Why your president and secretary of state are constantly criticizing other countries, especially China. Because the United States has many citizens like you (even if you are not his supporter). Your prejudice stems from your lack of knowledge. As long as you wait patiently for a few years, you will understand a lot of things that you did not understand.

    Edit:
    When China exports some simple supplies, you laugh at its lack of technical content. When China exports technical products (such as Huawei 5G communication products), your government says that these products threaten your national security. What kind of products do you want China to export?

    Edit2:
    I have more knowledge about viruses than ordinary people, so I have been thinking and searching for the true origin of the virus(because this is more meaningful than pure gossip, like a detective case), and any information about this will be posted to this thread (even if the information is false , can also be used as material for discussion).

    This thread was originally about new coronavirus outbreak in Wuhan, China, and I'm the only Chinese who responded here, I'm here to clarify some rumors (such as the rumors in #post1) is completely necessary. If you do not want to see information about China or do not want to see my comments, then you as a moderator can lock this thread, and then open a new thread without Chinese participation to discuss the COVID-19 epidemic in the United States and Europe.
    Last edited by dreammanor; Jul 7th, 2020 at 10:19 AM.

  37. #1157
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Even if the virus was found to have come from overcooking shrimp in Australia... it wouldn't make any difference. It's everywhere now and we have to deal with it.

  38. #1158
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Even if the virus was found to have come from overcooking shrimp in Australia... it wouldn't make any difference. It's everywhere now and we have to deal with it.
    When I talk about the origin of the virus, I just want to discuss how to deal with it. But I have not grasped the exact evidence and information, and I dare not draw conclusions easily (what kind of measures), because these imprecise conclusions and measures will affect people's health or even life. In fact, I have hinted my views and measures in this thread.

    My wife's parents and family are in Wuhan. When the epidemic occurred, I was always instructing them how to protect themselves. Even if my measures are not correct, they will not blame me.

  39. #1159
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by dreammanor View Post
    Why don't you produce some materials with strings?
    Are you suggesting I weave something? I'm not much of a weaver.

    Why your president and secretary of state are constantly criticizing other countries, especially China.
    It's what he does. The secretary of state is a different matter, but don't expect anything else out of Trump. Division is what he is explicitly running on. Without an enemy, he is nothing, so he needs somebody to be against to make up for the lack of what he is for.
    Your prejudice stems from your lack of knowledge. As long as you wait patiently for a few years, you will understand a lot of things that you did not understand.
    That may be true, or it may not. I may be better informed about the world than you are, though. The problem is, you can't prove it one way or the other. You assume that those who don't see things your way base their views on ignorance. That's an impossible position to defend effectively, since it becomes untenable if you, yourself, are ignorant, yet the position practically assumes that everybody must be.
    When China exports some simple supplies, you laugh at its lack of technical content. When China exports technical products (such as Huawei 5G communication products), your government says that these products threaten your national security. What kind of products do you want China to export?
    That's a weird argument. You say that I laugh at a lack of technical content. When did I do that? Then you object to something that my government said, which you already recognized I don't agree with. So, you then ask a question not based on my views, but based on attributing to me a statement you made up and a statement that you already said I disagree with. That doesn't quite rise to the level of a strawman argument.

    This thread was originally about new coronavirus outbreak in Wuhan, China, and I'm the only Chinese who responded here, I'm here to clarify some rumors (such as the rumors in #post1) is completely necessary. If you do not want to see information about China or do not want to see my comments, then you as a moderator can lock this thread, and then open a new thread without Chinese participation to discuss the COVID-19 epidemic in the United States and Europe.
    I have no problem with your comments. I just don't always agree with them, and when I don't agree with them I say so. That's the nature of the thread.
    My usual boring signature: Nothing

  40. #1160
    Smooth Moperator techgnome's Avatar
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Even if the virus was found to have come from overcooking shrimp in Australia... it wouldn't make any difference. It's everywhere now and we have to deal with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by dreammanor View Post
    When I talk about the origin of the virus, I just want to discuss how to deal with it. But I have not grasped the exact evidence and information, and I dare not draw conclusions easily (what kind of measures), because these imprecise conclusions and measures will affect people's health or even life. In fact, I have hinted my views and measures in this thread.

    My wife's parents and family are in Wuhan. When the epidemic occurred, I was always instructing them how to protect themselves. Even if my measures are not correct, they will not blame me.
    But the point is that its origins are irrelevant at this point. Let's say that it originated with overcooking shrimp. OK, so now what? How does that help deal with it now? Does that mean we stop over cooking shrimp? We still have a pandemic to deal with. At this point I don't care if the virus was caused by some raw bats, over cooked shrimp, or if because on March 27, 2019 I farted into the wind instead of with it... the fact of the matter remains, there's a lot of people sick, the worst is yet to come, and this is going to play right into the hands of the Republicans come November.

    -tg
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