Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

[dday9]

I've never cared for the red/blue pill analogy. Most people I've talked to use it in the context of democrat/republican instead of in the context of The Matrix. And the "red" side is certainly not always the side based in reality.

I have heard an outgrowth of the analogy, white/black pilled. White pill says that you have information that makes you optimistic about the future whereas black pill says you're pessimistic. However, I've only really noticed this analogy in Libertarian circles, it hasn't really made its way outside that little group.

[FunkyDexter]

If someone mentions Bill Gates, everything that he says should be rejected.

It was you that brought him up. Post 3960.

But it won't be necessary of mass murdering to profit

For the "it was deliberately released" theory to hold water requires that millions of people have been deliberately killed. That would be mass murder for profit.

My point, that I believe you may have missed, is that the corporate media initially oversold the vaccine over a year ago and have since been moving the goal posts as to why individuals should received the vaccine.

The media exaggerates and simplifies, sure. Like I said several pages back, if it bleeds it leads. The messaging has been changes because the facts on the ground have been changing. But ascribing some nefarious intent to either those (I'm not sure whether you are but participants in this thread certainly have been) is inaccurate.

why an individual with no comorbidities should risk taking a vaccine

Because it helps protect us all. It helps supress spread and helps prevent the emergency services from becoming overwhelmed. I'd also take issue with the word "risk". We have the data that shows just how low the risk of taking a vaccine is. You're at higher risk of dying in a plane crash.

shielded from legal liabilities

Now there I'm with you, I really don't like those clauses. Mind you, I work with highly sensitive data to do with abused children and I usually have similar clauses written into my contracts to cover me against data leaks that are beyond my control - I guess the difference is that my clauses specify "beyond my control". I see no conspiracy or secrecy there though, it's simple protectionism and done in the open.

Let's keep watching and trying to find more clues, more evidence

The problem is that you've begun with your conclusion and are casting around for evidence to support it. Your horse and cart need to go the other way round. There's plenty of evidence that media wants you to consume it so tailors itself as such. There's evidence that companies market their product to you. There's evidence that companies lobby governments to try and get favourable legislation implemented and there's evidence that some politicians are corrupt to respond to that lobbying regardless of what's good for their constituents. But none of this is new or remarkable.

Where is your single piece of evidence that "it is very logical to think that there could be someone behind". "It's possible" is not enough to draw a conclusion or start telling people that, because they don't agree with you, it is because they are uninformed (which is what you did). It's possible that the earth is flat and Nasa faked the moon landings. It's possible that we're all living in the matrix. It's possible that my wardrobe has a secret world behind it with talking lions. But if espouse those views with no evidence to lead toward those conclusion, I really shouldn't expect anyone to take me seriously.

I've never cared for the red/blue pill analogy. Most people I've talked to use it in the context of democrat/republican instead of in the context of The Matrix.

I first encountered it in the context of the toxic end of the Men's Rights movement. I actually think that Men's Rights is a cause worth endorsing but, sadly, most of the people that do seem to be a cess pool of incels and toxic anti feminists. For that reason I tend to view it as a dog whistle. And it shouldn't escape notice that this discussion briefly veered into blaming this all on the "feminist agenda" and the "gay agenda" so I guess the dogs were listening.

[wes4dbt]

Bill Gates is untouchable. Everybody knows that he is a good guy. And here even more, since VB was invented by his company while he was the chief.

This is more false claims. Bill Gates is not untouchable. Just ask his wife's divorce attorney. Also, not everybody thinks he's a good guy. There is negative things said about him, it's very common and the people saying them will depend on who's agenda he is hindering.

I'd be hard pressed to think of anyone who is untouchable. Even Kings, dictators, presidents are all "touchable".

[dday9]

Because it helps protect us all. It helps supress spread and helps prevent the emergency services from becoming overwhelmed.

This is exaggeration. One study shows fully vaccinated people have a ~35-~50% chance of spreading the virus (depending on vaccine) but this percentage decreases drastically and steadily after the first 3 months. So yes it does prevent the spread but not at a consistent rate that I (personally) think is worthy.

Also, if you look at the US, hospitals were almost never overwhelmed though they came close. Most famously, New York City had naval ships docked specifically to take the overflow and it never materialized. However, I would contend that this is a side effect of how the US structures its hospitals. There is an incentive to stay around ~80% capacity to begin with and laws that require hospitals to get permission (from the state or perhaps it's the department of health) to add additional capacity.

I think that this point weighs more heavily in countries with a weaker healthcare system, Italy most famously during the summer months of 2019.

I'd also take issue with the word "risk". We have the data that shows just how low the risk of taking a vaccine is. You're at higher risk of dying in a plane crash.

This is something that I usually bring up with people, but have yet to do so here. Your definition of risk is different from my definition of risk which is why these decisions should be made on an individual basis. Not a one size fits all solution like the vaccine mandates we're seeing in New York City and New Orleans.

[wes4dbt]

This is precisely why I adopted the term corporate media.

Edit
I will go further and say that your points are exactly why people are switching to long form podcasts. What I do blame the corporate media for is trying ostracize someone who says "this vaccine looks promising, but I'm hesitant because of A, B, and C."

Instead of taking on those questions, that person is immediately deemed a conspiracy theorist or quack, regardless of how sound their objections are.

Corporate media sounds good to me.

But I don't agree with this,

Instead of taking on those questions, that person is immediately deemed a conspiracy theorist or quack, regardless of how sound their objections are.

It just depend on which people you chose to listen to. It just depends if it suites the narrative there pushing. It really doesn't even have to be a "sound" objection. One group will praise them and another will call it crap. This happens constantly. Lately it's been about masks, vaccines and mandates.

[Eduardo-]

And we should also dispense with that stupid 'blue pill' nonsense. We all know that comes from "The Matrix" movies, so perhaps we should acknowledge that was the weakest element of a good movie (the first one was good, anyways).

"Take this pill and you see reality" Except that the 'reality' they showed was exactly the same as the 'fake', other than being worse in EVERY SINGLE WAY. If you were a schlub in the matrix, you're still a schlub in the real world, except now you're mired in a grimy world of perpetual war, perpetual stress, and for no clear reason. Do you have the same problems as before? Absolutely, except that their worse.

After all, Neo kept going back into the Matrix. At the end of the first movie it was clear that he wasn't going back into the Matrix for any particular reason, except that it was so much better than his 'real' life. In the matrix he had god-like super powers, and a truly god-like indifference to the other people around him. In the real world, he was a dirty, scared, bit of detritus devoid of purpose and meaning.

Now, had he awoken into an Eden where the vicissitudes of life had been reduced to a constant striving to bring people out of squalor to paradise, that would be one thing, but that's certainly not what that movie offered. All it offered was the idea that life sucks, and if you REALLY understand it, then it REALLY REALLY sucks.

Why in the world do people think that's a good thing?

The metaphor is that at some point you have to choose between staying being deceived, fooled, controlled, but still more or less "happy", as any other "normal" person, or choose to be aware of the truth, that is not pleasant.
What are the benefits? They are not clear sometimes, but perhaps you can do something to change something.

But I would say: if someone has chosen to stay being fooled, willingly, because that will help to make him happier, then do not contend with the ones that took the blue pill, because they are at another level.

[Eduardo-]

It was you that brought him up. Post 3960.

I know. I wasn't talking about you.

[Eduardo-]

This is more false claims. Bill Gates is not untouchable. Just ask his wife's divorce attorney. Also, not everybody thinks he's a good guy. There is negative things said about him, it's very common and the people saying them will depend on who's agenda he is hindering.

I'd be hard pressed to think of anyone who is untouchable. Even Kings, dictators, presidents are all "touchable".

I was exaggerating a bit.

[dday9]

But I don't agree with this

I think that more recently it has famously been against Joe Rogan. There are media montages of members of the corporate press claiming he's using horse de-wormer and wrong for telling people to eat right and to exercise to be more prepared for COVID.

They are implicitly (and sometimes explicitly) degrading him by framing it as "this quack is someone who takes medicine for horses and thinks he can exercise COVID away" instead of "he was prescribed medicine that probably won't have much of an effect on COVID but won't hurt to take".

[Eduardo-]

Bill Gates made his empire, more than making good software, paying to the media. To every magazine. (along with other things)
Something he must know about the importance of the media to form opinions, and to control people behaviors.
Did you know that his foundation is putting money on the BBC?

[wes4dbt]

The metaphor is that at some point you have to choose between staying being deceived, fooled, controlled, but still more or less "happy", as any other "normal" person, or choose to be aware of the truth, that is not pleasant.

This has nothing to do with being "aware of the truth". You've said yourself that you don't know the truth. As FD said, you have chose to believe in a conspiracies and now your searching for some evidence to support that. The problem is that you state your conspiracies as truths and people are blind or afraid if they don't believe it. People in general are not blind or afraid, but they need more than "it's possible". Well, there is religion, so you do have that.

Edit: It occurred to me that maybe this has nothing to do with being paranoid. One common thing seems to be that people in general are either stupid or afraid but they are smart, brave and can see through the lies. Maybe this about how they view other people and how they view themselves.

[Shaggy Hiker]

I've never cared for the red/blue pill analogy. Most people I've talked to use it in the context of democrat/republican instead of in the context of The Matrix. And the "red" side is certainly not always the side based in reality.

Hunh. I've never heard red pill/blue pill used that way, though I've certainly heard red/blue used that way in the US. I think one of the first 'red pill' references I heard was from Moti as he was spiraling into darkness.

[Shaggy Hiker]

The metaphor is that at some point you have to choose between staying being deceived, fooled, controlled, but still more or less "happy", as any other "normal" person, or choose to be aware of the truth, that is not pleasant.

That's only true if you fundamentally believe that the truth is not pleasant. The evidence is quite clear that such is not true. Take a look at any disaster in this country. The pessimists think it will all devolve into animal lawlessness, but that's not what happens. What ends up happening is ALWAYS uplifting. Some people put out lurid stories, such as some that came out after hurricane Katrina, but the stories weren't true. They stuck around because they fit somebodies narrative (usually racist, this being the US), despite abundant rebuttals.

One of the things I learned from hiking is that we have filled in the valleys of life, but we've done so by shaving off the peaks. You don't really appreciate water until your muscles are cramping to the point where you can't walk. You don't normally eat Crisco, but to the starving, it's awesome. However, those are trivial examples, even if entertaining.

If you really tear the curtain away, you find out that nobody and nothing matters, but it's perfect in being what it is. Only we bring it down with the shibboleths of our own creation. If you want to find reality, walk the length of your country.

[Eduardo-]

This has nothing to do with being "aware of the truth". You've said yourself that you don't know the truth.

I'm not totally sure about the conspiracy, I mean that the pandemic was planned (I'm now about 70% in favor).

But you even agree that the propaganda at the media is deliberated.

Olaf was talking about that and about that most of the governments are criminals.
He mentioned the pills in that context.

As FD said, you have chose to believe in a conspiracies and now your searching for some evidence to support that.

I'm open to the evidence, and trying to figure what makes more sense.
I can change my mind. I repeat: I'm open to evidence.
One thing that worth considering is that "it is too difficult to coordinate".
Another one is that it requires "too many people involved" (knowing about the plan): I already answered to that, that it is not necessary.

If there is really a plan, it is probably not known by more than 10 or 20 persons.

The problem is that you state your conspiracies as truths and people are blind or afraid if they don't believe it.

You confuse things too frequently. I can't explain all over and over.

OK, but the last one: people are afraid as being labeled as nut-case. That's why they are not even open to consider the possibility that there could really be a conspiracy. When they say things like "you believe in the Boogeyman", it is their fears to be pictured like this.
That's more or less what I said.

People in general are not blind or afraid, but they need more than "it's possible". Well, there is religion, so you do have that.

I think you imply here that I have blind faith, or that I believe in things that are only imaginations, or something like that.

But... since you bring the subject, I have to say that the way that the Bible describes the world, and how it works, yes, helped me to incline to the possibility of a conspiracy.

Edit: It occurred to me that maybe this has nothing to do with being paranoid. One common thing seems to be that people in general are either stupid or afraid but they are smart, brave and can see through the lies. Maybe this about how they view other people and how they view themselves.

All people have some fears. It is better at least to know that we have them. And try to not have them any more, but it is no so easy sometimes.

[sapator]

@Sapator: Is it true that the next significant variant would get the name pi?

If so, then everybody must do everything they can to stop COVID right now.

I don't get it, or you mean pee? It's not the same in Greek pi it's just the letter P - Π or means someone to say something.

Fresh news:
"Refugees lack COVID shots because drugmakers fear lawsuits"

https://www.reuters.com/world/refuge...Mfmyp7e3KODO2E

[Eduardo-]

That's only true if you fundamentally believe that the truth is not pleasant.

Yes.

The evidence is quite clear that such is not true.

Yes???????

OK, we live in Wonderland.
The world is full of nice people, specially the ones in power.

That's new to me, but OK, I respect.

Take a look at any disaster in this country. The pessimists think it will all devolve into animal lawlessness, but that's not what happens. What ends up happening is ALWAYS uplifting. Some people put out lurid stories, such as some that came out after hurricane Katrina, but the stories weren't true. They stuck around because they fit somebodies narrative (usually racist, this being the US), despite abundant rebuttals.

One of the things I learned from hiking is that we have filled in the valleys of life, but we've done so by shaving off the peaks. You don't really appreciate water until your muscles are cramping to the point where you can't walk. You don't normally eat Crisco, but to the starving, it's awesome. However, those are trivial examples, even if entertaining.

If you really tear the curtain away, you find out that nobody and nothing matters, but it's perfect in being what it is. Only we bring it down with the shibboleths of our own creation. If you want to find reality, walk the length of your country.

There is lot of beauty, in nature, in many things. There are lot of positive things.
But about "the world", the system of powers: religion, politics, enterprises, etc. It is very corrupt, very.

There are positive things also, we live in democracies (not in all countries). Let's protect that.

[dilettante]

Sure feels like a tussle between "try to be part of the solution" and "screw you, and your little dog too."

[wes4dbt]

I'm not totally sure about the conspiracy, I mean that the pandemic was planned (I'm now about 70% in favor).

Your about 70% sure that a group of billionaires secretly got together, came up with a plan to talk China into creating a virus, then let it escape. Just to make money. They are so evil that killing millions and millions of people is acceptable to them. Plus there is the chance they or someone they love could die from the virus. Once the virus has escaped and spreading they controlled all the major media outlet and politicians and had them follow their script. Even though, people in the media/politics ... had friends and loved one dying from the virus, everyone has kept this secret.

Your proof seems to be,

But about "the world", the system of powers: religion, politics, enterprises, etc. It is very corrupt, very

Plus your claim 20 scientist signed a paper and got paid for it and Russel Brand.

None of this sounds very scientific, you want to go from people are corrupt to the pandemic was planned. And your evidence is, people are corrupt.

[Eduardo-]

Your about 70% sure that a group of billionaires secretly got together, came up with a plan to talk China into creating a virus, then let it escape. Just to make money.

I don't think that China took part. They were used (if the virus "escaped" from the lab). Or the virus was directly planted there and was not from that lab in Wuhan.
Those are guesses, of course. I think what possibility makes more sense (in case it was actually planned).

If it was planned, and the Chinese were aware, they would not allow that to happen in their home. What do they win?

They are so evil that killing millions and millions of people is acceptable to them.

Yesssss, I have no doubt about that point.

Plus there is the chance they or someone they love could die from the virus.

I have thought about that.
Not sure they love someone, but may be, let's assume it as a possibility.
Do you know of any billionaire, or relative of a billionaire that died of covid?

I'm quite sure they know how to deal with this disease. They probably knew of the efficacy of Ivermenctin (or something else, perhaps still unknown for us, to protect themselves).
There are many medicines that are effective (or coctels), it is only the mass media that tells otherwise.

Once the virus has escaped and spreading they controlled all the major media outlet and politicians and had them follow their script.

I explained in other posts: they are not part of the conspiracy. They only follow orders, as they already did before the pandemic.

Even though, people in the media/politics ... had friends and loved one dying from the virus, everyone has kept this secret.

You are not following, obviously.
But I'm tired of repeating things.

[Eduardo-]

[Eduardo-]

What goes against the idea that it was planned is that nor Putin, nor China said anything about it.
Their intelligence services should know, or at least suspect something.
Perhaps they don't want to accuse if they are not able to present proofs.
I admit that there seems to be a weak point on that, or at least something that I'm still not understanding.

[Eduardo-]

Let's go down to 65%

[Shaggy Hiker]

I don't get it, or you mean pee? It's not the same in Greek pi it's just the letter P - Π or means someone to say something.

Yeah, that character. We often spell it out as pi. We write it as the symbol that you have (though that one's kind of an ugly representation on my computer).

So, would that be the name of the next major variant?

[Shaggy Hiker]

But about "the world", the system of powers: religion, politics, enterprises, etc. It is very corrupt, very.

Just out of curiosity: What do you mean when you say 'corrupt'? Olaf mentioned criminals, but that's not technically true. Still, I felt that he probably meant something similar to you, but I'm not sure what you mean. Corruption can have a couple different meanings. I think you mean that they are committing crimes. You live in Argentina, so you might be right. In the US, we throw the word around pretty freely, and some elected officials are corrupt and end up in prison. Most here aren't that kind of corrupt, despite the jawing on the subject. In the US, some people feel that anybody is corrupt if they don't support them, which is a pretty weak definition of the word. So, what do YOU mean when you use the word?

[Shaggy Hiker]

What goes against the idea that it was planned is that nor Putin, nor China said anything about it.
Their intelligence services should know, or at least suspect something.
Perhaps they don't want to accuse if they are not able to present proofs.
I admit that there seems to be a weak point on that, or at least something that I'm still not understanding.

What do you mean? China has been saying that it was an American virus brought over in those military games, since back in 2020 some time. The fact that they couldn't produce any proof didn't even slow them down.

[jpbro]

Recognizing lies, as they were emitted by your government/public media, would be a good start...Followed by speaking out, that they were indeed lies...

When I recognize lies by my government, I have no problem at all with saying that.

when you notice..., that your colleagues or friends are still believing in them.

None of my colleagues or friends believe in the government much. I don't believe in the government much, but I believe in "no government" almost infinitely less.

You will of course risk, being put into these "little boxes" then... (marked as a nut-case).
(so the "ahh, you're one of those conspiracists"-thing will of course happen to you).

I don't care what box I'm put in. I already know I'm a weirdo - I'm a VB6 programmer in 2021!

I also don't mind a good conspiracy theory. I was born-of, and raised by a conspiracy theorist. He's still theorizing conspiracies to this day, and that's fine by me.

Well, speak out against that idiotic practice (which seems to be the norm these days) as well...

I'm not sure what to say about this, but I don't want to leave out a response lest you think I'm avoiding it. Perhaps I'll come back to it.

In short, stop taking the "blue pill"

I'm not taking any pill, red, blue, or purple.

recognize and accept the harsh reality and learn to live with it

I accept the harsh reality of this life. I think about it all the time in fact. I was born into a family that was "lower middle class" as I was told from a young age. We were just barely "lower middle class", but we weren't poor. My parents worked hard - harder than I realized as a child, but they always provided the best they could. My father was immigrated to my country, and when I look at the conditions he grew up in, I'm saddened. I'm astounded by what he and my mother were able to provide for me. Depite this, I've had it better the vast majority of people born into the harsh reality of this world.

consequences be damned.

Not willing to do that?... (putting your head in the sand)?
- because you don't want to risk loosing your job?
- because you don't want to be considered a nutcase by your friends?

Well, this is the hard part isn't it? Consequences be damned...it's "easy" if we're just talking about talking. My friends and colleauges talk about this kind of stuff all the time. Some of us are more left wing, some of us more right wing. But we discuss and argue, no big deal. We even have a "nut case" or two in the group (I might even be one from certain perspectives).

However, no change will be affect in our lifetimes unless you're willing to:

a) Try to change the system by the rules from within by becoming an "honest" politician.
b) Be a whistle-blower
c) lead a revolution/coup-d'etat

Unless you're doing one of the above, I think you're blowing hot air.

[QUOTE=Schmidt;5548499]Your choice - but in that case, at least don't try to "explain reality" to those,
who made a different decision (one, much harder to live with, in the corrupted systems western democracies became).[/QUOTE}

I've never (and will never) try to "explain reality" to anyone. As far as I am concerned there is no objective reality, so there's nothing for me to explain. I think we're all coming to this conversation from our own subjective reality.

Democracy at "state-level" is dead for a few decades already -
(the real important decisions at this level, are made by corporations and lobbies, which act more and more global).

Yeah I agree with this. There are massive corporations with ridiculous sums of money lobbying governments to write laws in their favour. It's a huge problem.

Transparency at that level (how certain decisions came to be), is not given anymore.
(for example: only 3 or 4 countries worldwide, were releasing their Pfizer-contracts, Germany of course not among them)

Within my group of friends and colleagues, I've consistently advocated for open government. I'm actually pretty radical in this regard. I think all phone calls and emails should automatically be released every X days unless explicitly blocked for nationaly security reasons. Governments could keep blocking some calls/emails, but it would become burdensome. Eventually it wouldn't be worth the burden and the information would be released automatically. Just an idea.

Democracy still works (somewhat) at the communal level
(where it is a bit easier, to have "some transparency", fighting corruption) -
though for how much longer, remains the question.

I had a lot more planned to say, but I'm a bit tired. I'll leave you with this:

‘Many forms of Government have been tried, and will be tried in this world of sin and woe. No one pretends that democracy is perfect or all-wise. Indeed it has been said that democracy is the worst form of Government except for all those other forms that have been tried from time to time.…’ - Winston Churchill

[TysonLPrice]

A buddy of mine just came down with Covid. He is an anti-vaccine person. He is also in his mid sixties and a diabetic. Last I spoke to him he was starting to get sicker. That was Wednesday. I'll catch up with him this morning.

He was hospitalized yesterday with Covid pneumonia

[baka]

[Eduardo-]

What do you mean? China has been saying that it was an American virus brought over in those military games, since back in 2020 some time. The fact that they couldn't produce any proof didn't even slow them down.

The idea of military virus don't makes much sense to me, but it is another possibility.
One of the most affected countries is USA, so in that case they shot on their feet.
And it seems that Donald Trump knew nothing about that.

Just out of curiosity: What do you mean when you say 'corrupt'? Olaf mentioned criminals, but that's not technically true. Still, I felt that he probably meant something similar to you, but I'm not sure what you mean. Corruption can have a couple different meanings. I think you mean that they are committing crimes. You live in Argentina, so you might be right. In the US, we throw the word around pretty freely, and some elected officials are corrupt and end up in prison. Most here aren't that kind of corrupt, despite the jawing on the subject. In the US, some people feel that anybody is corrupt if they don't support them, which is a pretty weak definition of the word. So, what do YOU mean when you use the word?

Yes, you are right. There is a spectrum of corruption, some are literally criminals (like the ones we have currently here) and others no, or not so much.
Basically, to not to pursue the good of the people, in same (many) cases receiving some kind of bribery or benefits, directly or indirectly.
In other cases some are only cowards.

Some are better than others. They are not all the same.
And some may be kind of good, or at least to have good intentions.

The system to reach the power facilitates this to happen, because you cannot make any political campaign without money.

Thank you because you make me reflect more about these things.

[Eduardo-]

Vaccinated people should go and join the protests, because it is not about vaccination, it is about liberty.
Once you lose it, it will be too hard to recover.
That's aside whether someone thinks that there is a global agenda or no.
That's my opinion.

If you allow them to cross that line, they'll cross it again and again for any (valid or not) reason.

Martin Niemöller poem:

    First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out—
         Because I was not a socialist.

    Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out—
         Because I was not a trade unionist.

    Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
         Because I was not a Jew.

    Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

It is only fear that makes people think that something like that is right, and because they are not touching them (now).

[Eduardo-]

And (about mandatory vaccination) let's suppose that these vaccines of now are good, that there is nothing wrong in them.
Once you allow the state to make something like this, to enforce vaccination with this good vaccine, they could enforce to inject anything in the future.

Bill Gates and some others, that I believe I remember Fauci, already said that "there will be other pandemics in the future, that we need to be ready".
I think they were talking of in a short period, of few years to come.
I wonder how can they know that, if the last pandemic was 100 years ago, and they are not so frequent in history? It is statistically very unlikely that humanity will have naturally other pandemic soon.

[baka]

exactly, they follow a script. they know exactly all the events beforehand.
and as u say, they will not stop, once they start, the only way to end it is a real war, and nothing we want.

[Shaggy Hiker]

And (about mandatory vaccination) let's suppose that these vaccines of now are good, that there is nothing wrong in them.
Once you allow the state to make something like this, to enforce vaccination with this good vaccine, they could enforce to inject anything in the future.

There have been vaccinations required for schoolchildren in the US for decades. There have been mandatory vaccinations for soldiers in the US for decades.

So, that ship sailed before I was born.

Bill Gates and some others, that I believe I remember Fauci, already said that "there will be other pandemics in the future, that we need to be ready".
I think they were talking of in a short period, of few years to come.
I wonder how can they know that, if the last pandemic was 100 years ago, and they are not so frequent in history? It is statistically very unlikely that humanity will have naturally other pandemic soon.

Depends on what you count as a pandemic. The last GLOBAL pandemic that killed a LOT of people was 100 years ago. The last global pandemic was not that long ago (bird flu or swine flu) but didn't kill many people. The last pandemic that killed a lot of people, but which didn't spread all that widely, was Ebola, which was only a few years back....unless you count malaria, which sickens and kills vast numbers of people each year and is one of the greatest killers in history.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Bill Gates made his empire, more than making good software, paying to the media. To every magazine. (along with other things)
Something he must know about the importance of the media to form opinions, and to control people behaviors.

That's an example of interpreting history in service of your argument. Bill Gates made his empire because he was able to provide DOS to the IBM PC. It wasn't the best OS, nor was it his (until he bought it). Then, by a happy accident, he understood the potential value of it better than IBM did. They were all guessing, to some extent, and did what they thought was best. IBM bet on the hardware, MS bet on the software. It turned out that Gates and Allen had it right and IBM had it wrong.

It is mighty hard to see where the media even came into this. The most famous ads were all Apple ads...and the Apple OS has never been more than a bit player. The major computer advertising was not for the OS, it was for the hardware. The bulk of the press that I can ever remember seeing around computers glossed over the OS. The first time I remember the OS getting much press was Windows 95, by which time MS was already one of the most powerful tech companies in the world, and Windows 95 got all that press because it was already acknowledged that they'd have 90% of the market because they already did.

During the time when Bill Gates was leading MS, tech had no political footprint at all and no discernible media footprint aside from Apple. Since he left, though, tech woke up to the fact that politics matters. Now they lobby. Now they schmooze. Back in the 90s, and up into the first part of the 2000s, tech was notorious for ignoring all of that.

[Niya]

I remember reading or hearing somewhere that the fact that MS made their operating systems a viable gaming platform was a major contributor to it's success over it's competitors. I don't know if this actually holds any water though but I can see it being true.

Besides writing programs in QuickBasic, I also played quite a bit of games back in my youth like Sopwith, Digger, Prince of Persia, Prince of Persia 2,Doom, Doom 2, Wolfenstein 3D, Corridor 7, Blake Stone, Commander Keen, Wing Commander, Another World, Mortal Kombat 2 and 3, Hexen, Duke Nukem, Duke Nukem 2 and Duke Nukem 3D, Quake in the DOS era and then it was Starcraft, Age of Empires, Quake 2, Pitfall the Mayan Adventures and a few others I can't remember in Win95 to Win XP era. There was just a massive selection of games for DOS and early Windows unmatched by any other platform at the time. If you wanted to play the best games, you wanted to be using a Microsoft operating system. If you look up all these games, you would find that many if not all of them were ground breaking in one way or another. You just could not beat Microsoft's DOS and Windows as a gaming platform in the early days.

[wes4dbt]

Bill Gates made his empire because he was able to provide DOS to the IBM PC. It wasn't the best OS, nor was it his (until he bought it). Then, by a happy accident, he understood the potential value of it better than IBM did.

I remember reading/watching about this. Can't remember exact number but Gates bought the DOS software from a guy for about $30K, maybe $50k. Wish my investment were that good.

But convincing IBM to use his software and still keep control of the software was amazing. Because IBM always kept full control of their products. normally they would have just bought the software.

To Niya point, if 90% of the PC's are running MS DOS then all the best gaming being written for MS DOS seems reasonable. But I don't think gaming was what made MS DOS so dominate. I think the fact they were already so dominate that so many games were written for DOS.

But DOS wasn't dominate for that long, once MS went to Window I think it was hardware that kept them dominate. Because Windows on a 1meg ram with a 286 processor sucked. It was real slow. We had several clients had Windows programs written for them but had to throw them in the trash and pay us to write them a DOS based program. The 386 was available but very expensive and RAM was also too pricey. But amazingly it only took a few years we had the Pentium, cheaper RAM and large cheap hard drives. Windows was now fun to use.

[Shaggy Hiker]

I remember reading or hearing somewhere that the fact that MS made their operating systems a viable gaming platform was a major contributor to it's success over it's competitors. I don't know if this actually holds any water though but I can see it being true.

It would be kind of funny if you heard that from me. I've long asserted that point, though I don't recall reading it anywhere else. Games have driven computers for a very long time. I remember reading about the 486 when it was first coming out. The trade journals were all saying that it was for labs and offices because nobody had any use for that much power at home. HA!! That was wrong before it was even written.

Meanwhile, video cards were advancing FAR faster than CPUs, and it sure wasn't so that we could make prettier graphs. In the early 90s, I shelled out the cash for the newest, best, most cutting edge video card that had just come out. It was the Diamond SpeedStart 24, or something like that (I may have the number wrong). Six months later...you couldn't even buy those anymore, since they were so obsolete that stores didn't carry them. I never shelled out the money for the cutting edge video card again. Wait a few months and you can get it for a fraction of the price...or at least you could. Not so much today, though, since GPUs have so many other uses.

[sapator]

And this comes from a person that thinks that the best MS products were DOS and SQL, so.
The best games of DOS era came with the hardware upgrade to VGA and with sound blaster, until then, AMIGA.
The hardware fast change is slowly degrading, till we be able to have quantum computers without needing a liquid nitrogen pack to the side.
But i think this thread is about covid and how the vaxbies slak balls?

[Niya]

It would be kind of funny if you heard that from me. I've long asserted that point, though I don't recall reading it anywhere else.

I probably very well heard it from you

[Shaggy Hiker]

The best games of DOS era came with the hardware upgrade to VGA and with sound blaster, until then, AMIGA.

You're right about Amiga. It was ahead of it's time, for sure. However, there were some excellent DOS games that predated VGA. The Bard's Tale 1 was an excellent game, while the second version was...a bit weird, but good. Of course, I liked those games because they were not afraid to go all in on a pun or wordplay. There were puzzles that could only be solved if you looked at the words themselves without paying attention to the phrase they were in. For example, there was a sign on a wall that read: "The plan is near!" A while later on, somebody popped up and asked, "OK guys, what's the plan?"

Eye of the Beholder II was really funny because of the level that had stone giants. It was in a dungeon of fixed size, though, so the giants were...crawling.

There was an even better one that I played on monochrome, or on a four color CGA monitor. After a bit of research, I see it was Ultima V.