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Thread: [RESOLVED] Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

  1. #2081
    PowerPoster techgnome's Avatar
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    or "My animals slow", aka Saying something irrelevant.
    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    That's funny.
    That is... still partial to "got eels in your hovercraft" tho...

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  2. #2082
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    My animals slow
    I heard there is a blue pill for that.

  3. #2083
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Lol.

    Well https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=grA5XmBRC6g

    Also you say "this girl is drum", meaning very sexy.
    or "I lay my skin, or lay my crust" "meaning i relax" .

    When I was in UK years ago I was bombarded with phrases that eventually i forgot but the one I still remember is a youngster asking me if I got a flag. I was trying to find if there was any label sticking out of my jacket that resembled a flag.
    .

  4. #2084
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    OK, one more.
    That, I'm constantly using at work.

    "We drunk it" , meaning something went wrong and I say this at any software of hardware unexpected issue (and something is constantly wrong in IT dep ) .
    Although a Greek phrase, we don't translate it and say that straight up in English.
    Actually the Greek phrase would be "We drunk him" but we use the "We drunk it" as it sounds more on the English side.
    Last edited by sapator; Apr 27th, 2021 at 10:46 PM.
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Translation software is always inaccurate. It's like a Chinese leader saying that we want to isolate and people can cure the new crown virus without spending money. The result is that income has been reduced for a few months.
    As long as there is no death, this is already a great victory.
    But in India, the United States and other countries, they can't understand what the Chinese do, just as translation software always misinterprets the original meaning.

  6. #2086
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    There are always many people who think that I use machine software to speak automatically. If that is the case, I will definitely choose the correct English article instead of simply using translation software to express my views and comments.

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Mr. Wu is the main person in charge of the producer of Zhongshan. The products are mainly exported to India and other East Asian countries. After the product is assembled in India, it will be sold to Europe and the United States. The proportion of Indian export business accounts for more than 90%.

    ????

    "In fact, India has been affected by the epidemic this year." Mr. Wu said, "The Indian order has increased, and the year-on-year increase is about 50%, especially after the Spring Festival, the order amount has increased."

    The amount of production capacity is increasing the amount of order is the biggest troubles of Mr. Wu.

    Orders in March, according to our factory's manpower in March to produce and ship, the shipment time needs to be scheduled for September. ”

  8. #2088
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Fair enough
    Damnit! I fell at the first hurdle.

    I still suspect that preventives are more of a "riding the storm out" strategy until the clouds break and vaccination can be deployed.
    I agree. The call was to "flatten the curve" not "starve the virus into extinction". Expecting social measures to wipe out the virus completely was unrealistic but none of the experts ever claimed that was what they were for. It didn't prevent plenty of talking heads from building straw men out of it though.

    that is some kind of sentence generation software...not a real person
    Could be but I still believe he's real. I don't much agree with the arguments he makes and they do tend to veer off at tangents but they do start out as relevant and cogent - just very hard to read due to the language problems.

    I must admit, I'm often skipping over xiaoyao's posts, which is probably doing him a disservice, but they're just too much effort to interpret. When I do put the effort in, though, I frequently find an argument in there I can engage with.
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    That would be interesting.
    I suppose in some kind of clinical sense...
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  10. #2090
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    I like that Indian response: We flattened the curve. Unfortunately, we flattened it on the wrong axis.
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  11. #2091
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    From my experience Chinese people are very polite and heartwarming so I wouldn't want to insult him but maybe, some special need is taking place here?
    That's perfectly fine , else , it's Yodamarket!
    .

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    The main translation software has too many mistakes.
    It's like the Chinese are trying to give oxygen to the Indians to make machines.But India says, we never want to buy from China.Unless China is willing to donate to him voluntarily, it needs tens of millions of dollars.

    Even so, he won't think you are good.
    Sometimes in the diplomacy between countries, no matter how hard you work, people just regard you as an enemy.

  13. #2093
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    I agree. It's often kind of clear what you are saying, but that translation software is doing you no favors.

    As to the last line, I both agree with that, and think it doesn't matter. The USSR and the US were enemies for....pretty much as long as there was a USSR, yet they worked together where it really mattered. Just because you don't agree with someone doesn't mean you can't get along.
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    To be fair, Greece is a beautiful country with a couple of thou of islands, I wouldn't want to live anywhere else...Provided we dump the politicians somewhere else..
    Greece is a land rich in history, art and culture, so much so that it is called the cradle of Western civilization.
    I have had the pleasure of going on vacation 4 times in the Cyclades. (each time on a different island - paradises on earth)
    I fell in love with it, the environment, the climate, the landscapes, the seasides and beaches and the innate welcoming attitude of the population.
    I didn't go there last year, 'cause of covid. and I guess I won't even go there this year. ... and it saddens me.
    Almost everyone of you are going one side, and that is fine, I'm going the other way. And what probably motivates me more and more are the TV stations controlled by the government bombarding us with just one side of the coin.
    The same in Italy!
    I don't know how it is in other countries, but I think it's more or less the same.
    We should investigate who the news channels are funded by.
    We must also bear in mind that there is ruthless censorship on major social media.
    In Italy YouTube has "definitively" canceled Claudio Messora's ByoBlu channel, to which half a million users were subscribed and which in 14 years of activity had published about two thousand videos online, which included "interviews with scientists, researchers, political scientists, journalists"
    In the field of information, the giants have absolute power. This is a serious problem to think about.

    There is no debate, no different voice, the mainstream narrative is global and unique.
    This we must know.
    The debate, when there is, is fake, and it only serves to give the idea that space is given to different voices, but in reality they are all on the same side.
    On Italian TVs they sometimes invite people who have different opinions from the mainstream and then lynch them, attacking them and not giving the possibility of replying. (almost always they simply take away the audio)

    Perhaps I have already said it, but it is precisely for these reasons that when I listen to the voice of the mainstream I think:
    - Why do they say this?
    - What do they want to achieve?
    - Why are they talking about this information and not others?
    - How they give me the information (for example numbers .... "New cases" -> Meaningless word: It doesn't mean anything, it doesn't mean sick!)
    - Talking about certain topics in certain ways what emotions they want to get to the population.

    For exercise, try it yourself.

    Here, so, it comes naturally to me to think that the truth is the opposite of what they say.

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    As far as the passport is concerned, I would like to know if anyone has any scientific sources about its usefulness.
    I think it's just a small piece of one of the Overton's windows.


    "In 1998, Noam Chomsky said:

    The smart way to keep people passive and obedient is to strictly limit the spectrum of acceptable opinion, but allow very lively debate within that spectrum—even encourage the more critical and dissident views. That gives people the sense that there's free thinking going on, while all the time the presuppositions of the system are being reinforced by the limits put on the range of the debate"

  16. #2096
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    If you look back to this map that Dilettante posted:

    https://data.democratandchronicle.co...ccine-tracker/

    I got looking at the spread between those who have gotten one dose and those that have gotten two. There are no states with a very large number of vaccinations. The leading states are a bit over 50% for the first dose, but there's generally a pretty large spread between those with one and those with two. I have no idea how the J&J single dose vaccine figures into the graphic. Still, I got wondering about that spread. Generally, a large spread might indicate the increased pace of vaccinations, as a lot more people have been able to get it more recently, so a lot more will be between first and second dose. Then you look at Idaho and Wyoming, where the spread is pretty small, which means that most of the people who got the first dose have also gotten the second dose.

    It seems to me that this indicates that the pace of vaccination is slowing badly in those two states. I didn't look at all the states, but those two were the only ones I saw with a spread of less than 10%. That doesn't seem like a good sign for the long term.
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  17. #2097
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by reexre View Post
    Perhaps I have already said it, but it is precisely for these reasons that when I listen to the voice of the mainstream I think:
    - Why do they say this?
    - What do they want to achieve?
    - Why are they talking about this information and not others?
    - How they give me the information (for example numbers .... "New cases" -> Meaningless word: It doesn't mean anything, it doesn't mean sick!)
    - Talking about certain topics in certain ways what emotions they want to get to the population.
    You should be doing that with ALL media, not just mainstream media.
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  18. #2098
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    You should be doing that with ALL media, not just mainstream media.
    Agree!

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Why does everyone say the exact same words?
    ( I don't know the context )




    EDIT:
    I found more Info:
    https://ec.europa.eu/international-p...ging-effort_en

    https://ec.europa.eu/commission/pres...l/en/ip_20_797

    " On 24 April (2020), the WHO and an initial group of global health actors launched a landmark, global collaboration for the accelerated development, production and equitable global access to new COVID-19 essential health technologies. The group includes the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation (BMGF), the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations (CEPI), the Global Alliance for Vaccines and Immunisations (GAVI),the Global Fund, UNITAID, the Wellcome Trust and the World Bank.

    The Commission is also inviting governments, business leaders, public figures philanthropists, artists and citizens to raise awareness about this global pledging effort. The funds collected will be channelled into three strands: diagnostics, treatments and vaccines. "

  20. #2100
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Because the are not actual leaders, they are pawns.
    I'm surprised that this does not include the no1 pawn and idiot or Europe. Our prime minister.
    .

  21. #2101
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    I got vaccinated through my local County Health Department. There were also some hospitals and other organizations dispensing as well, but they had very long waiting lists.

    Early in March I went in to a lab to have blood drawn for testing (not related to COVID) but the techs there said "oh, just apply everywhere, get on every waiting list." That seemed like a bizarre suggestion that just produces discouragingly congested waiting lists. Turned out that didn't matter because none were accepting new names for their lists except the one I went with anyway.

    But the eligibility age dropped and dropped again before I got a slot on a list. The entire thing began to have overtones of Zeno's dichotomy paradox, always cutting the distance remaining in half yet never getting there.

    At the time, the County required proof of residency or employment. Now they are taking all comers 16 years of age or more. That probably makes sense because:

    • Anybody who can get there probably does get there and nobody wants them spreading infection, so try to get them vaccinated.
    • As time goes on you exhaust the population placing a priority on vaccination so you get more late cancellations and no-shows, wasting vaccine that goes bad after sitting around all day. This may mean they are now intentionally overbooking a bit.

    That last point might seem nutty. I'm sure they know telling people "no room at the inn, go away" would discourage vaccination. But they are running a large bulk drive-through operation and after several months probably have a feel for things now and can avoid turning people away.

    Kind of funny. By April they had to convince the media not to shoot photos showing any police and military presence, mainly National Guard and volunteer off duty police officers. It was "scaring people off."

  22. #2102
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    I had to give the secret handshake to the pharmacy clerk at the grocery store where I got my shots. lol

    Trying to draw some type of conclusion about the how the vaccine rollout is being handled is almost futile. Every state and county within the state seems to be doing it differently. Seems like the complaints about availability have went down but I have a small sample size to draw from.

  23. #2103
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Greece opened up the platform for 30 yearers about 2 weeks ago, the total aged 30 to 40 are about 1.5m , those that signed for the vaccine are about 90.000 .
    We have a lot of leftover doses if you need one.
    I can't cross reference but I believe those greedy Anthellenic politicians are buying 3 times the doses needed to vaccinate the entire population.
    Next they will be vaccinating trees and birds. Greedy pigs.
    .

  24. #2104
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X-aeP58-a04

    In Greek but it shows than one of the epidemiologist that terrorized people about covid received at least half a million dollars from "donations" of pharmaceutical companies that promoted the vaccines.
    That started from 2019....That is 2019. So how did they knew that the vaccine will be ready back then?
    Last edited by sapator; Apr 28th, 2021 at 08:39 PM.
    .

  25. #2105
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by reexre View Post
    Why does everyone say the exact same words?
    ( I don't know the context )

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UoZOCL9DyCE
    About my post I found more Info:
    https://ec.europa.eu/international-p...ging-effort_en

    https://ec.europa.eu/commission/pres...l/en/ip_20_797

    " On 24 April (2020), the WHO and an initial group of global health actors launched a landmark, global collaboration for the accelerated development, production and equitable global access to new COVID-19 essential health technologies. The group includes the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation (BMGF), the Coalition for Epidemic Preparedness Innovations (CEPI), the Global Alliance for Vaccines and Immunisations (GAVI),the Global Fund, UNITAID, the Wellcome Trust and the World Bank.

    The Commission is also inviting governments, business leaders, public figures philanthropists, artists and citizens to raise awareness about this global pledging effort. The funds collected will be channelled into three strands: diagnostics, treatments and vaccines. "

  26. #2106
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Why does everyone say the exact same words?
    Because they're reading the press release issued by the organisation. I don't see anything sinister there.
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    Because they're reading the press release issued by the organisation. I don't see anything sinister there.
    I just found more info: #2105

  28. #2108
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    I just found more info
    What are you seeing in there that you think is sinister?

    A group of significant players in the health industry have started a fund raising campaign to support distribution of vaccines globally, e.g. they want to make sure third world countries have access to the vaccine, not just wealthier countries. What's wrong with that?
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter - Winston Churchill

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  29. #2109
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    I already had my first dose and my second is early next week. I was at my Doctor's office yesterday and he has shots now (he is part of a large medical clinic) so it is down from pharmacies and large distribution centers to local Doctors in central Ohio now.
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  30. #2110
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    You should be doing that with ALL media, not just mainstream media.
    Agree!
    Do you really?

    In my experience most of those who disagree with what they hear on mainstream media, instead get there news from Social Media or even YouTube

    The problem I have with this is anybody with an opinion can post some supposed news on Social Media it gets shared around and seems to become fact at least to those consuming it.

    The People posting there do not have to validate their sources of information, they do not have to research properly they have no journalistic code that they have to follow.

    I know that mainstream media is not perfect and has its own biases but at the very least they have a set of rules which they have to follow to find out if a story is true or not and you just dont have that on Social Media.

    People get sucked into a Social Media vortex of confirmation bias where people find sources of information that fit there world view and due to Facebook algorithms the more you click on so called news like it the more and more of this same type of so called news is shared with you.

    I have had one friend tell me that the Covid vaccines can cause dementia and rabies in the same sentence, basically just because they had read it on Facebook. They had not bothered to read up elsewhere to check if this was true, it WAS true to them because they had read it on Facebook !

    Early on in this Pandemic I had people I know sharing this YouTube video called Plandemic, where some Women claims that the whole pandemic can been planed by the pharmaceutical companies and and Dr Fauci in particular is responsible. (there were also a load of other nonsense claims in there far to many to list here)

    The problem with this video is that on the very surface is was produced quite well and used many of the tropes of documentaries to set out a case, so many people watched it and just seemed to take it as fact...... as who doesn't love a good conspiracy.

    I spent 10 minutes investigating the origins of this video at the time and who the woman was at the centre of it and there claims and it was not only easily demonstrably false, the main women in it had been struck of the medical register in the US and blamed Dr Fauci for it and so specifically held a grudge against him.

    This is just one small example, so called news like this is everywhere and people who tell me that the Main stream media is lying to us fine if you think that, but have care about your alternative news sources, and at the very least aggregate and get your news from multiple sources (and even at least one source which you generally disagree with) which helps you filter out stuff that is just false.
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    How to manipulate masses using the OVERTON WINDOW


    Many translation errors may have occurred which I will correct.
    taken from here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mH-RZCKaN64


    A small question I ask today is this:
    is it possible to change the perception of reality in the masses by getting them to accept as normal something that they considered until just a few summers before absolutely unacceptable from a moral, political, religious or labour point of view?

    The answer is absolutely yes, using the very sophisticated manipulation tool known as the overton window.

    Once upon a time there was a guy named Overton, a brilliant young analyst, a graduate of the best American public schools and a leading member of an important think tank. Think tanks are study groups whose activity consists of carrying out analyses and outlining scenarios for the use and consumption of political parties, lobbies and individual companies.

    The topics covered range from politics to economics, from science and technology to industrial and trade policies and even geopolitical and military consultancy with dedicated strategic study centres.
    The institute where our dear friend Overton worked was mainly concerned with political analysis and in this field Overton has given us his famous window.

    Overton's window exploits a psychological mechanism or rather the tendency that our mind has to anchor itself to a point of reference and use it to judge the changes with respect to the environment.
    and use it to judge changes in relation to it.

    Overton stated that the feasibility of a political idea depends mainly on its position in relation to what is commonly accepted by public opinion.
    The political proposal should fall within the circle that is understood as the perimeter between its extremes and falls within what can be accepted by the masses at that moment.

    The Overton window stipulates that the political proposal to be introduced must first be assimilated by the masses, becoming commonly accepted opinion or socially accepted behaviour.
    Once the first political idea or the proposed new social behaviour has been assimilated, it can be expanded over time to involve more and more of the extremes.
    In order to be effective, the Overton window should act in a gradual manner to avoid ending up with scenes like this [ popular uprising] should the behaviour or political proposal find itself too far outside the circle of toleration of the masses.

    The Overton window is actually a subtle form of induced persuasion, where starting from ideas and behaviours that are unacceptable to the masses it is
    it is possible, by following precise steps, not only to get them accepted by society but even to make them the law of the state.

    ...

    For example, to make people accept profound changes in the organisation of work in a company by directing the perception of workers towards the new paradigms.
    Or to impose a new normality on the masses that has already been worked out. At the moment, they are working to clear the way for concepts such as paedophilia, artificial wombs, cloning (including human cloning), insects as the food of the future and the 'new normal' as social distancing.

    According to Overton, any idea, even the most incredible one, has a window of opportunity to develop. Within this window, the idea can first be discussed, then assimilated, accepted and finally the law can be changed in its favour.
    How do we make something that is absolutely stable, but also legal, something that is absolutely unacceptable as well as prohibited today?
    Or, how do we make unacceptable, even legal, what is commonly accepted and considered normal today?

    Yes because the overton window works both ways. isn't it fantastic?
    ...
    Think for a moment about suspending major constitutional rights by taking advantage of the health crisis , then used to suspend the normal
    democratic process.

    By using the overton window, one can define a range of norms that a politician can propose without appearing too extreme in relation to the political climate of the moment and avoiding negative repercussions on his or her and the party's image.
    In order to achieve this, it is necessary to follow precise steps, taking the time it takes. It can take years, sometimes decades, but once the process has been set in motion, it is unstoppable, simply by following the path already marked out.

    If we are in a hurry, there are always crises, real or perceived as such, which are an excellent accelerator of this process. In the case of a corporate economic or health crisis, for example, with the fear and anxiety that goes with it, people will be more willing to accept the proposed change even if they do not like it.
    Covid is a prime example of how new social behaviours have been introduced through the health crisis.
    We grumbled, of course, but in the end we accepted rules such as the suspension of key constitutional rights, rules that if introduced at any other time would have sparked a revolt.

    Let us now look specifically at the steps to be followed to build a good Overton window.

    PHASE 1
    transform the new idea from unacceptable to sensible.

    You start with a political idea or social behaviour
    you want to introduce that is initially unacceptable to the public.
    The first step is to propose exceptions, to raise exceptions, to make distinctions. The first step is to propose exceptions, to raise exceptions, to make distinctions.
    is at least in part admissible.

    For example, it starts by stating that in a free and civilised society there must be no 'taboos', that if we want to grow and evolve we must rid ourselves of these from a legacy of a past that was taboo and essentially uncivilised, so it must be possible to talk about them freely in order to proceed along the path of social progress.

    The subject begins to be debated, first in exclusive circles frequented by intellectual elites, then slowly moving to a wider audience. Dedicated conventions, conferences and seminars were organised, where high-ranking politicians, esteemed scientists and illustrious thinkers made statements in the form of scientific discussions that were only apparently aseptic, but in reality aimed at confirming the sensibility of the new proposal, a sort of seal of quality.

    The 'taboo' is now beginning to be desacralised and we are ready for phase 2.

    PHASE2

    From the sensibility of the proposal to its rationalisation.
    This is the most important phase. Without this, we cannot move forward.

    One begins to talk about the political or social proposal in an increasingly widespread manner to wider and wider audiences. The perception of the masses begins to shift from positions that are absolutely unacceptable to positions that make it all worth discussing.
    In short, that one can and must be able to
    talk about it freely. That possible, albeit very partial, changes are acceptable.

    We are beginning to call the originally taboo subject by other names.
    This is very important: to separate the form of the word from its content.
    I give an exaggerated example:
    from cannibalism, an excessively strong term, one has cheerfully switched to anthropophagy.
    Isn't this term more delicate as well as incomprehensible?

    - "I have my cousin for dinner tonight ... and what can I say, I am an anthropophagist".

    Or proposing a distinction between the words paedophile and child molester, starting to separate those who suffer from sexual disorders from those who physically abuse children or commit serious crimes related to child pornography. Exceptions are raised, distinctions are applied, unacceptable behaviour is separated from behaviour that in some cases makes sense and can be talked about.
    This is a useful example to understand the concept of how important it is to detach the form of the word from its content so that the masses lose sight of the reference to a behaviour or a political proposal that is otherwise considered unacceptable.

    At this stage our mental barriers begin to soften.

    PHASE 3

    Shift the terrain of discussion from totally unacceptable to considered, rational and logical.
    If it is rational and logical it obviously has a scientific basis, and who are we to question science?
    Any covid reference is definitely deliberate.

    The political or business groups carrying on the discussion on the subject at this stage rely on studies analyses research and reports, all of which are
    strictly in support of the proposed theories.
    We thus witness the emergence of a new dogma.
    This is then the phase in which derogatory labels are churned out to annihilate all those who insist on not accepting change or who at least question it.
    (Any reference to the subject of anti-Covid vaccines is quite deliberate)

    Anyone who continues to oppose or question the topic or the idea that you are trying to get across, gets the insult: conspiracist, denialist and obscurantist.

    Labels serve to instil in people who resist change a form of self-blame. Starting to be seen by the masses
    as an annoying foreign element. Sheep resent those who go in the opposite direction to the flock.
    Opponents are then relegated to a dark corner, marginalised and discredited.

    The masses at this point begin to be psychologically predisposed to accept the political proposal or the new behaviour that is to be made acceptable to society because they begin to see it as logical, rational and sensible.
    The mental barriers are breaking down.

    PHASE 4
    From sensible logical rational to widespread.

    The social behaviour, or the political proposal to be proposed to public opinion, thanks to the mass media
    enters everyday life becoming a topic so widely discussed and disseminated that it becomes, with time, socially accepted.
    Talk shows, interviews, front-page news, films dedicated to the subject, music, commercials...
    Testimonials are enlisted, usually famous people from the world of show business, sport...

    Titius outed Caius outed ... Sempronius in an interview said that the famous influencer had made a video which had gone viral in which he talked about ...

    The perception that the media will give us will be that of a common fact, an obvious phenomenon. When certain habits, certain ways of doing
    When certain habits, certain ways of doing things become commonplace, they become part of everyday life, and thus enter the normal range, instinctively leading us to adapt to the common way of doing things.

    Abnormal behaviour becomes normal.

    From extreme social-political proposal to proposal in line with the needs of the masses.

    Proposals that now become an integral part of everyday life, and with time we get used to them, finally arriving at full acceptance of the new social behaviour or the new political proposal induced.

    The barriers have now collapsed.

    PHASE 5
    From socially acceptable to politically sustainable.

    At this point the political and legislative basis begins to be built around the issue to be proposed and which the masses have now accepted as acceptable.
    The existence of a phenomenon is recognised and a public debate is held on the possibility of incorporating it into law by regulating it in some way.
    Or, on the contrary (I remember that Overton's window works both ways), work on the law to prohibit certain social behaviours that have been considered normal until now: for example, gathering in public places to socialise.

    At this stage proposals for laws to regulate behaviour, which is now taken for granted, obvious and commonly accepted, begin to emerge.
    At this point, power presents itself as the structure that collects the demands of citizens, making them its own by trying to build a legislative base to satisfy them.

    The beauty of the Overton window is that the masses do not have the slightest perception of the fact that all this has already been arranged at the table. And that the political or social proposals have actually been artificially induced by the very representatives of that same power, which this stage plays the role of good Samaritan.

    Let us move on to the last phase.

    PHASE6
    from unacceptable to admissible,
    from admissible to widespread,
    from widespread to socially acceptable,
    from socially acceptable to politically sustainable,
    from politically viable to politically sustainable in the sixth and final stage.

    We move on to the legalisation of a specific social behaviour covered by the Overton window or the decriminalisation of a previously prohibited behaviour.
    In an evolved society it is unthinkable not to normalise such a widespread phenomenon. don't you think? and therefore ad hoc laws are passed.

    In contemporary society, the Overton window finds particularly fertile ground because we live in a society that is completely imbued with relativism and
    and totally lacking in non-negotiable values.

    Moreover, since the masses are no longer able to exercise their critical sense, since society is completely atomised, pulverised and broken up, unlike power, which, on the contrary, is organised, it is almost impossible for citizens and the masses to react in a united manner.

    Therefore, any idea or social issue that is initially unacceptable can be brought into the debate, made to be accepted, and laws can be changed in their favour with relative ease.

    Remember that every idea, even the most incredible and outlandish, always has its window of opportunity.

  32. #2112
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    @reexre - Yeah, I'm familiar with the concept of Overton Windows and, yes, I agree that measures taken in response to this pandemic are shifting our Overton Windows on a number of issues, particularly towards increased acceptance of social control and I agree with you that that shift is undesirable.

    Where I disagree is that you seem to view this as a deliberate, if opportunistic, strategy by your government. I don't see that. I see it as simply a side effect of measures that had to be taken to avoid millions more deaths. So while I see these Overton shifts as undesirable, I also see them as a price worth paying, given the alternative.

    I also suspect that these shifts will be mostly temporary and short lived. There should be some concerns about what legislation governments bring in while our Overton Windows have swung toward acceptance of social control, certainly, but I suspect our Overton Windows are going to swing back to their positions before the pandemic (or very close) very quickly.

    So my position would be, watch for legislative moves that give permanent powers to your government and oppose them. I can't speak for Italy but I haven't seen a single measure in the UK that would meet that description. But don't oppose the necessary temporary powers that are required to minimise the deaths caused by a global pandemic.

    This is a slope but not a slippery one. We have agency to dig our heels in and climb back up it at the appropriate time.
    Last edited by FunkyDexter; Apr 29th, 2021 at 08:10 AM.
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  33. #2113
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    I also suspect that these shifts will be mostly temporary and short lived. There should be some concerns about what legislation governments bring in while our Overton Windows have swung toward acceptance of social control, certainly, but I suspect our Overton Windows are going to swing back to their positions before the pandemic (or very close) very quickly.

    So my position would be, watch for legislative moves that give permanent powers to your government and oppose them. I can't speak for Italy but I haven't seen a single measure in the UK that would meet that description. But don't oppose the necessary temporary powers that are required to minimise the deaths caused by a global pandemic.

    This is a slope but not a slippery one. We have agency to dig our heels in and climb back up it at the appropriate time.
    Interesting, I understand .... I hope so. Maybe I'm too pessimistic. I see little chance that some things will go back to normal (such as vaccination passport ... and other things).
    Just the fact that they have thought about it (green pass) should leave us astonished since even in the mainstream they have claimed that even vaccinated people can be contagious. So this would be useless, but useful for power to move on to something beyond.
    I have a feeling that there are strong powers pushing in some disturbing precise directions.
    There are already rumors that it will only be valid for 6 months. Every six months go to get vaccinated.
    In addition, this thing about the pass, even if it is senseless, would have precisely the purpose of pushing as many people to get vaccinated in order to get more freedom. And easily many, taken for exhaustion, will do it for this reason.

    EDIT/Countinue

    Another area they are trying to get to grips with is the abolition of cash.
    ........ News about covid found on POS and ATM surfaces and other object inside supermarkets. ....
    https://thefoodmakers.startupitalia....mento-italiano
    " The hamburger? “With us it's only cashless”. The first Italian experiment in Bologna
    ..... The novelty is that here you can only pay by card, debit or credit. Mobile phone is also allowed. Instead, ban coins and banknotes. The digital transition is done. "

    .....Anyway, yes, I will try to be more optimistic, thanks for instilling a little more positivity in me.

  34. #2114
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    We seem to have "flattened the curve" but that curve is vaccination rates day by day. Without a surge in supply allocation an effort is being made to rebalance what we have. I see more locations opening including many grocery store pharmacies and local pharmacies in addition to the hospitals and clinics and health departments. The strategy seems to be "move supplies to the willing" to get vaccines administered and avoid supply spoilage.

  35. #2115
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Grocery store pharmacies and local pharmacies seemed to be the primary delivery point in ID since back in March. I think this is being handled in VERY different ways within the US, which I suppose is understandable.

    As to the Overton Window, I would say that in parts of the US, the shift is in the opposite direction from what any sinister actor could possibly want...unless they were both sinister and VERY VERY clever. In Idaho, the result has been a strong attempt by the legislature to deny the governor (both Republicans) the authority to respond to ANY emergency. I felt that he did about as well as he was allowed to do, and they seem to agree, because they want to ensure that he isn't allowed to do anything at all in the future.

    I kind of feel that this reflects the state in general. If you ask people here to take some minor action for the good of those around them, a bunch will agree to do so, and a significant percentage will say, "HELL NO! You can't make me do ANYTHING." I get the impression they'd stop breathing if you told them that their breathing would help those around them.
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  36. #2116
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeedSomeAnswers View Post

    I know that mainstream media is not perfect and has its own biases but at the very least they have a set of rules which they have to follow to find out if a story is true or not and you just dont have that on Social Media.

    P
    That do not apply in Greece. They paid the media 150mil to do propaganda, not only for covid but for anything the government is doing.
    Even if they bombard a house they will say that the house was hosting Godzilla and they where right to do so.

    Also since our beloved politicians here are complete morons they do goof ups and expose their agenda.

    Some news, specialist in Greece at Salonika Papanikolaou hospital may have found a drug that cures covid. More on the weeks to come...
    .

  37. #2117
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Don't get your hopes up. Viruses may not have much of a cure the way things like antibiotics cure bacterial infections. A virus doesn't do much until it's in your cell. At that point, what is it that is getting 'cured' exactly?

    What they might have is something that reduces one of the pathways that cause harm, such as something that calms a cytokine storm. That would prove to be VERY beneficial, far beyond COVID, but would take a whole lot of study before anybody was comfortable with it.
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  38. #2118
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    I kind of feel that this reflects the state in general. If you ask people here to take some minor action for the good of those around them, a bunch will agree to do so, and a significant percentage will say, "HELL NO! You can't make me do ANYTHING." I get the impression they'd stop breathing if you told them that their breathing would help those around them.
    Any way to gauge how much of that is just philosophy, i.e. lip-service vs. action?

    Here I am still seeing strong masking and vaccination action taken in small town areas one might paint as "conservative" vs. much more disregard and vaccine opt-out in cities and university campuses ("liberal"). Both flap their gums in protest of these measures, but one follows through to hang themselves more often. We see this in the rise in younger victim hospitalization now, with the greater population shaking our heads.

  39. #2119
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    In Michigan, more and more young people are being hospitalized with COVID-19, and teens are testing positive at the highest rate of any age group

    "I am putting more patients in their 20s and 30s and 40s on oxygen and on life support than at any other time in this pandemic," Dr. Erin Brennan, an emergency-room physician in Detroit, told The Times.
    "I have a lower threshold to admit when I'm not worried about hospital capacity," Dr. Amesh Adalja, an infectious-disease expert and hospital doctor in the Pittsburgh area, told the publication. He added that when hospitals were full he had previously sent borderline cases to be treated at home.

    But doctors at Beaumont Hospital in Detroit's Royal Oak told The Times that this wasn't the case for them. They said that they hadn't lowered the bar for admission and that some young people had serious symptoms that required hospital treatment.

  40. #2120
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Similar scene in parts of Europe:


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