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Thread: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

  1. #1401
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    The urban area that will vote for Biden is masked, the rural area that will vote for Trump is largely unmasked. It has nothing to do with politics, though, it has to do with the different mask requirements impacting the different areas.
    Well that's an explanation. Doesn't seem to apply here though. Requirements here are statewide and observance of the mandates seems to be the opposite of what you described.

    Either what I see is just too small a sample to be meaningful or something else is going on. Perhaps age is a factor as you described above. When I've been in small towns this summer I haven't seen many children or college-age people, unlike in a nearby college town where masking seems to be about 50% in the shopping strip.

    I think masking is more complicated than politics though. I've even seen a few like these around:

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  2. #1402
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    We're still getting these misleading log-scale maps. They bury the story:

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    1770 to 19750 as a range hides a lot of detail, as does 19751+ which might be a million for all we know.
    Last edited by dilettante; Sep 18th, 2020 at 03:18 PM. Reason: goofy typo

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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    We don't have that. All of our logs are on fire.

    I'm not sure what is going on in the rural parts of the state I was recently in. There are so many layers of factors that it's really hard to figure things out. At one gas station, which was the only one for hundreds of miles, mask wearing was low the first time I went through, then high the next time. However, since it is the only gas station for hundreds of miles, people tend to stop there. The first day was early in the week, the second day was Saturday. Was I seeing a high percentage of locals the first day and tourists the second? Quite possibly, or it could have been chance.

    Mask wearing in this state may be more politicized than in most places, but not left vs right. We have a large, splintered, and vocal anti-mask coalition including Amon Bundy (the guy who took over the Malheur Wildlife Preserve). I wouldn't say he leads it, as they all fight with each other as much as with anybody else, but they vigorously oppose masks. They disrupted a special session of the legislature, Bundy got arrested a couple times, and so on. So, what do these groups do to mask compliance? Does it cause more mask wearing because people don't want to be seen to associate with them? Less mask wearing because people DO associate with them? No real change cause people don't care about them?

    It's all pretty interesting, but partly because there are layers to the question in this state that may not be so common elsewhere. In addition to the odd politics, our rural is more rural than the rural most states have. I sure didn't wear a mask when I walked 200 miles across the wilderness this summer, nor did the bears I met, but if you take out just a few days, I met more bears than people. Of the people I met, is transmission really an issue when the population density is so low?
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    I don't think it's realistic that we can come up with a set of rules on mask wearing that is fare to everyone. But it's a very minor inconvenience, I can't believe how much discontent it has caused. This is the first national disaster that I can remember where people didn't all ban together to fight the problem. The problem seems secondary to the politics around it. It's scary how divided our country has become. Human life being a secondary concern isn't new but I've never seen it on this level in the US.

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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    I'm not quite sure about that, in this case. I have heard that there were riots in San Francisco over the quarantine measures put in place for the 1918 flu pandemic, which was FAR more deadly than COVID is likely to end up being. It was killing young people at a high rate, there were few treatments known for ANYTHING, and STILL people were rioting over restrictions. I wouldn't dismiss that as some California thing, either, as I have only heard about the riots in one place, which doesn't mean they weren't elsewhere. If fact, the eight citizens in Clayton, Idaho all banded together, grabbed torches and pitchforks, and started marching on the capital. They only made it a few miles by dark, though, and by morning they had forgotten why they were out there, so they just went fishing.

    Seriously, though, the last pandemic had dissent at least as bad as what we are really seeing here, and that was a more equal opportunity pandemic. In this case, the young are largely unaffected, and they seem to be the great majority of the unmasked. The real anti-mask groups are mostly the nutters. The internet has allowed those folks to find one another across the country and form their own echo chambers, which makes them sound louder, but they are still the nutters, and nutters have always been with us.

    What Idaho seems to be showing is that the left/right divide isn't all that much out here when it comes to masks. The fault lines on mask usage seems to run along different axis than left/right.
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Shaggy,

    Two things.

    1. I was just talking about mask wearing, not quarantine.

    2.
    I've never seen it on this level in the US.
    Do you really think I was around in 1918? Or, are you saying you were around in 1918 and it was worse.

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    Do you really think I was around in 1918?
    Well, you HAVE made a few comments about your age......

    I'm not so certain about what the riots regarding the 1918 flu were about. I don't know if ANYONE was wearing masks back then (except those guys in the trenches, but that wasn't because of flu). I'm not so sure about quarantine, either. If you are rioting, you aren't all that quarantined anyways, so I'm not sure what measures prompted the riots. My point was just that people may not have been all that compliant back then. What I don't know is what they were being asked to comply with, and what, specifically, they were objecting to.

    We are polarized like few times in US history, but we've always had our share of loons, nutters, and general doofuses. They can find each other more easily, these days, and organize more easily. There are also regional differences that come into play. Dil is talking Michigan, and it sounds qualitatively different from Idaho in how people are dealing with the pandemic. I'm thinking that left/right isn't the divide here, but I wouldn't care to guess what drives things anywhere else.

    I started off thinking that people were largely ignoring it out here. That was the case LONG after it couldn't be ignored in places like NYC. Now, it seems like NOBODY is ignoring it out here. Those who aren't wearing masks in the valley seem to be doing it as a statement. Then I go to the rural areas...and I'm not sure what is motivating people to do whatever they happen to be doing. There are so many shades in this red state that it's hard to figure anything about people, even if you talk to them about it.
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    There is a simple answer to the current state of polarization.

    Hillary lost in 2016 and she is still having a tantrum, using all of her tentacles to sow high levels of angst. In her own way she's a lot like Professor X in Logan when he had one of his Alzheimerís fits. The rest of the Clinton-Bush mob are doing their part to assist her in this.

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Damn Hillary, causing all this division in the country. Poor Trump working so hard on bringing all the people together, trying his hardest to sooth peoples fears, trying to show that with honesty and selflessness and high moral values we can MAGA. It's nice to know the current people in power are completely blameless for any of our current problems. I know this is true because Trump has said so and he wouldn't lie.

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    and nutters have always been with us.
    .
    This is, I think, the correct explanation for a lot of things happening in this world ...

    " and a pinch of ... oups !! " do you really need that I translate what is on the red box ...

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Seems a bit far north. Perhaps he brushed them off, a bit.
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    Damn Hillary, causing all this division in the country.
    Frustrating, isn't it?

    I guess you can take the girl out of the Party of Goldwater, but you can't take the Goldwater out of the Goldwater girl.

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Damn Goldwater causing all the division in the country.

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Well, looks like the UK's heading back into lockdown. The measures announced today have been fairly mild but something stronger's probably on the way. I did my regular grocery shop at lunchtime and there was definitely panic buying going on .
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Well that's an explanation. Doesn't seem to apply here though. Requirements here are statewide and observance of the mandates seems to be the opposite of what you described.

    Either what I see is just too small a sample to be meaningful or something else is going on. Perhaps age is a factor as you described above. When I've been in small towns this summer I haven't seen many children or college-age people, unlike in a nearby college town where masking seems to be about 50% in the shopping strip.

    I think masking is more complicated than politics though. I've even seen a few like these around:

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    Too bad those aren't made of plastic and wrapped REAL tight
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    Well, looks like the UK's heading back into lockdown. The measures announced today have been fairly mild but something stronger's probably on the way. I did my regular grocery shop at lunchtime and there was definitely panic buying going on .
    Yeah, I keep an eye on UK, Spain and France numbers and they are going up. Especially France and Spain are going up, the UK wasn't looking real bad but I haven't looked in a day or two. Last week I noticed the US numbers creeping back up to the 50,000 a day range.

    We seem to be making the same mistake over and over. We are diligent and get the numbers down, so we relax and for some reason think it's safe. The virus is still there just waiting. Found out yesterday my sister (72) and brother in law (78) had COVID. My sister is strong/healthy and seems to be over the worse but her husband has health issues (one is some Dementia). He is not in danger of dying but he has stopped walking and hasn't been answering his phone so my sister can't talk to him.

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    yep in France , it is exponential
    https://www.gouvernement.fr/info-cor...rte-et-donnees

    orange are the cases
    red are the deaths
    green are cured people
    light grey are people in hospital (first number are actual's, second are new's for the day)
    dark grey are people in intensive care (under breath device) (first number are actual's, second are new's for the day)

    if you click on a box with number you will have the curve for that number.

    the curves are interesting as you can see the evolution with time

    EPHAD and EMS are dependent old people special care structure


    We have to be careful with number as for France the number of test is increasing fast so we detect more cases than before. it seems alarming but it may be not as I am pretty sure before summer a lot of people had covid and were not tested.
    Last edited by Delaney; Sep 22nd, 2020 at 02:57 PM.
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by TysonLPrice View Post
    Too bad those aren't made of plastic and wrapped REAL tight
    Well, the heads appear to be plastic, and to wear one of those suggests you aren't wrapped too tight.

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    the UK wasn't looking real bad but I haven't looked in a day or two
    We're currently doubling every week. I don't know how we compare to Spain and France but we're defnitely on an upward curve and a rapid one.

    Inevitably there were some talking heads downplaying it because the death rate hadn't increased. They blamed it on increased testing (sound familiar?) and the spread being among the young where it's less likely to be terminal. The fact that the death rate lags the infection rate didn't seem to enter their thinking. So, yeah, we've lost a couple of weeks when we could (and should) have been reacting.

    So, ermÖ
    We seem to be making the same mistake over and over
    ...Yep.

    He is not in danger of dying but he has stopped walking and hasn't been answering his phone so my sister can't talk to him.
    Just making sure, there are people with him right? He's not on his own?

    yep in France , it is exponential
    Are those graphs cumulative? When I first looked I was expecting them to be single day but that would look like your rate never came down.

    We have to be careful with number as for France the number of test is increasing fast so we detect more cases than before.
    There are ways of digging into the data to work out if the increase is due to increased testing or actual increased infection. You can look at the death rate (though that does lag) and you can look at the percentage, rather than number, of tests that are returning positive.
    Last edited by FunkyDexter; Sep 23rd, 2020 at 02:28 AM.
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    Hyperactive Member Delaney's Avatar
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    yes the graph are cumulative, but you can have the none cumulative one : click on a box with a number to have only one curve, in the top right of the chart you have the sentence "Afficher les variations quotidiennes" ="show daily variation"

    The number of death rise again a little bit but far from the acceleration rate of the number of case. So I think we have both a raise in number of people tested and a raise in number of people contaminated.

    We have just number, no percentage of test done, percentage of good/bad result on tests done, percentage of healthy carrier, etc... We only have, from the government, information to justify their actions. Anything that could generate questions, questioning, doubts or criticism is not accessible (or at least not to everyone or not easily).
    the only percentage I found is the number of positive case for the number of test which is 6.1%
    Last edited by Delaney; Sep 23rd, 2020 at 04:18 AM. Reason: typo
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    We only have, from the government, information to justify their actions. Anything that could generate questions, questioning, doubts or criticism is not accessible
    Sounds familiar
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    I see the inevitable has happenend and Trump has caught Covid.
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeedSomeAnswers View Post
    I see the inevitable has happenend and Trump has caught Covid.
    Yeah and I'm torn. If he glides through it I can see him saying its nothing and telling the nation to just don't worry about it. On the other hand, ashamedly, I wish him the worst for the irony of it. I'm sorry to say I hate what he has done to this country so much that I wish harm on him so he can't stay in power. I'm embarrassed to admit that but I'm being honest
    Last edited by TysonLPrice; Oct 2nd, 2020 at 05:18 AM.
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeedSomeAnswers View Post
    I see the inevitable has happenend and Trump has caught Covid.
    Unfortunately it isn't going to keep him off Twitter.... probably will be on it more...
    Oddly, just last night as we were watching the news and they were talking about how one of his aides had tested positive, and that rallies were still planned, I said to my wife, I bet he comes down with it. Wonder how that will change things.

    I bet he some how skates through this, and claims that it's because he's been taking hydrocloquin or what ever it's called, and uses it to claim that "See, it's all been a hoax by the Dems this whole time."

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    I bet he some how skates through this, and claims that it's because he's been taking hydrocloquin or what ever it's called, and uses it to claim that "See, it's all been a hoax by the Dems this whole time."
    I'm afraid of that also...

    An angle I didn't consider but just heard on TV is that because of practically a mandate NOT to wear masks in the inner White House; how many of the very top levels of government might come down with it?
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    I'd have to say that I never wished him ill because of who he is. However, he is a figurehead and reacts emotionally to things. If his is case is challenging, then he'll push his followers in the right direction, and that would be good for the country. If his case is trivial, he'll push his followers in the wrong direction, and lots of people will suffer as a result. Regardless of the man, he has the reigns of power in his hands and uses them carelessly. For the good of the country, this has to be bad enough to worry him, but not bad enough to kill him. I feel that that scenario, alone, will cause him to lead.
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Yeah, I can't make myself wish him to die but because of all the unnecessary deaths because of him, if he ended up gasping for air for a couple of weeks, I'd have no sympathy. Probably be a good thing for the country. But I don't see that happening. They have caught it in a very early stage and he wont lack for health care.

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Deleted...too negative.
    Last edited by TysonLPrice; Oct 3rd, 2020 at 05:16 AM.
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Deleted by request
    Last edited by wes4dbt; Oct 3rd, 2020 at 02:31 PM.

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    I've thought better about my post and deleted that. Any chance you could too?
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    I'm thinking of leaving the forum - you guys really all suck in one way or another - I'm sorry I even opened this thread.

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by szlamany View Post
    I'm thinking of leaving the forum - you guys really all suck in one way or another - I'm sorry I even opened this thread.

    Horrible bad taste/style on my part. I really am sorry! I'm trying to get it erased.
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    I didn't see the posts but I can imagine and, while I don't condone what I imagine you said, I can understand it.

    My first thought when I heard the news he was ill was "people are get schadenfreude from this... and I can see why". It's not like Trump has been compassionate in the past when the dynamics were going the other way as John McCain's family would no doubt attest. And, as some people have identified, if Trump has an easy recovery and uses it to further a narrative that trivialises the virus, that has the capacity to create further deaths.

    None the less, I think we should aspire to not sink the levels he has been willing to and I believe it's possible for someone to have a genuine change of heart without having to experience near or actual death and/or serious long term health issues. For that reason I wish him the swiftest and most complication free recovery possible, though I hope some good comes out of a horrible situation and it acts as a wake up call for him to treat this virus seriously.

    I also wish the same for Melania and the other folks around him who've also become sick. It's unsurprising that Trumps case is getting the most light in this scenario but we shouldn't forget that other people are being affected alongside him. We should be wishing our best to them all.
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    I didn't see the posts but I can imagine and, while I don't condone what I imagine you said, I can understand it.

    My first thought when I heard the news he was ill was "people are get schadenfreude from this... and I can see why". It's not like Trump has been compassionate in the past when the dynamics were going the other way as John McCain's family would no doubt attest. And, as some people have identified, if Trump has an easy recovery and uses it to further a narrative that trivialises the virus, that has the capacity to create further deaths.

    None the less, I think we should aspire to not sink the levels he has been willing to and I believe it's possible for someone to have a genuine change of heart without having to experience near or actual death and/or serious long term health issues. For that reason I wish him the swiftest and most complication free recovery possible, though I hope some good comes out of a horrible situation and it acts as a wake up call for him to treat this virus seriously.

    I also wish the same for Melania and the other folks around him who've also become sick. It's unsurprising that Trumps case is getting the most light in this scenario but we shouldn't forget that other people are being affected alongside him. We should be wishing our best to them all.
    For my part I don't think the points I was making were really off that bad...I expressed them in a base and crude manner though. One thought, and it was already expressed, is if he just glides through his period of illness he will hold it up as an act of defiance and a lot more people will probably get sick from it. And that along those lines his living will probably kill maybe hundreds of thousands of more Americans.

    The second part of my post was along the lines of how history would have changed had Hitler died in 1938. That was my first mistake because arguments using Hitler as an analogy start off bad to begin with. But I don't think you will find too many reasonable people that would defend this administrations approach to the pandemic and that hundreds of thousands of people have died needlessly. And, that if Trump stays in power, and maintains current policy, hundreds of thousands of more people may die needlessly.

    In both cases I worded my points by wishing harm on Trump. I withdrew that and regretted it. I definitely maintain if he remains in office if will mean death to a lot of innocent people.
    Last edited by TysonLPrice; Oct 5th, 2020 at 08:21 AM.
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  35. #1435
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    One thought, and it was already expressed, is if he just glides through his period of illness he will hold it up as an act of defiance and a lot more people will probably get sick from it. And that along those lines his living will probably kill maybe hundreds of thousands of more Americans.
    I absolutely agree, this is a concern, and from the look of the recent drive by photo-op I suspect that exactly what he's going to do. That's sad and I'll condemn him for it if and when he actually does it.

    I withdrew that and regretted it.
    Yeah, and it speaks volumes for me that you didn't double down. It's the difference between doing a bad thing and being a bad person.
    You can depend upon the Americans to do the right thing. But only after they have exhausted every other possibility - Winston Churchill

    Hadoop actually sounds more like the way they greet each other in Yorkshire - Inferrd

  36. #1436
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Over the last few days we've heard that the number of Corona cases in the North of the UK had been drastically under reported - it was about a half of what it should be. The news has just reported why.

    They were holding the list of cases in an excel spreadsheet. It filled up so no new cases could be recorded.

    Our much vaunted national test and trace system is a frickin' excel spreadsheet??!!
    You can depend upon the Americans to do the right thing. But only after they have exhausted every other possibility - Winston Churchill

    Hadoop actually sounds more like the way they greet each other in Yorkshire - Inferrd

  37. #1437
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    I think they're lying. It was Lotus 1-2-3.

  38. #1438
    Wall Poster TysonLPrice's Avatar
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    I absolutely agree, this is a concern, and from the look of the recent drive by photo-op I suspect that exactly what he's going to do. That's sad and I'll condemn him for it if and when he actually does it.

    Yeah, and it speaks volumes for me that you didn't double down. It's the difference between doing a bad thing and being a bad person.
    It didn't take long....his latest tweet.

    "I will be leaving the great Walter Reed Medical Center today at 6:30 P.M. Feeling really good! Donít be afraid of Covid. Donít let it dominate your life. We have developed, under the Trump Administration, some really great drugs & knowledge. I feel better than I did 20 years ago!"

    Half the country will listen to him. I'm just biting my tongue right now.
    Please remember next time...elections matter!

  39. #1439
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    The man is just pure slime ball, but that's not news. 210,000 US citizens are dead and his advise is "don't be afraid of Covid". Oh well, I think I'll still wear my mask.

  40. #1440
    Hyperactive Member Delaney's Avatar
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Be careful if you listen to him, you may have sudden need to vomit and with a mask it can be nasty. It was predictable that it will says something like that. He, of course, forgot to say that not everyone will have the same treatment than the one he had. What hurts me the most in political language (what ever the country) is the
    We have developed...
    . Other people do,sweat and have hard time and politicians get the credits.
    The best friend of any programmer is a search engine
    "Don't wish it was easier, wish you were better. Don't wish for less problems, wish for more skills. Don't wish for less challenges, wish for more wisdom" (J. Rohn)

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