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Thread: [RESOLVED] Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

  1. #1681
    PowerPoster kfcSmitty's Avatar
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    So when he doesn't get censored, will you take off your tinfoil hat? Or has it kinda blended with the skin at this point and would require surgery?

  2. #1682
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.


  3. #1683
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    I was wondering if I must write this or not as I did not read all those pages here and I don't know the frustration I may cause (btw get well Funky it's just a flu , or as I like to call it, a flue).
    Now this is for Greece only. It may well be for everywhere but this is what I know from Greece:

    1)95% that died had other related diseases that may well trigger death from a common flu, also, 85% where above 83 , I haven't heard of anyone below 55-60 dying from pure covid, the total covid non xtra diseases are investigated on 5% of total covid deaths and of course the age is very high.
    2)The amount of people that died here in 2019 is almost the same as the people that died in 2020. Think about that.
    -- The below is for the RNA vaccine --
    3)The born of a dogs a^us politicians are pushing the vaccine, ignoring any pill, non vaccine pharmaceutical treatment.
    4)Our prime minister has done both doses on the vaccine , yet he is still wearing a mask. Forgot to take it of or he glued it there for safety?
    5)He probably has not done it(the vaccine), it was just a show, because if he had done the real one and had even the slightest side effect then the whole "vaccine, get you fresh vaccine here" campaign would have trumbled
    6)There are a lot of side effects from the vaccine, Israel is experiencing a lot of them
    7)The pharmaceuticals gained billions of Euros from EU, tricked the EU, and they are providing the vaccine to other countries, probably for more profit. More non important deaths to these countries i guess.
    8)Other non RNA vaccines are ignored. Gates my deal old friend, vaccine murdered in Africa, whassup!?
    9)They are just starting to mumble something about pills rather than vaccines probably because they got their money and bribes by now, so they don't care.
    10)Economics for the middle to lower class have demolished. 10 richest people in the world become billion of dollars richer, pharmaceuticals got their stock high enough and their main CEO's sold all their stock just in time before this whole BS goes down.
    11)They are trying to push a vaccination proof card that will allow people to travel, else in EU, the others stay in lockdown. A big FK off from me with love to them.
    12)Mask don't do nothing on outer grounds yet we have a total lockdown.
    13)They are passing anti society laws out of the windows because there is noone there to do something as we are all locked.
    14)Everyone is using masks and are careful not to get to close yet deaths are rising(?)
    15)Covid positive tests send to people that never even had a test before.
    16)Of course people will get the virus more and more, everyone rushed to the flue infected hospitals out of fear and they got it. It is possibly more contagious than the flu so they got it easily.
    17)Now that people start to wake up and riot... Teenage Mutant Ninja Covid! Boom, get in there again!
    18)After this one is over we are going to have a 25-30% more unemployment and the worst death toll is not covid or cancer, it's poverty.
    19)A good one. Our born of a slug made it with a caw politicians said that it's covid safe to travel in packed public transportation but it's not safe to have a drink outside or go to a non crowded shop.
    I could go on but.... (i did not do 20, to get even with the compulsive ones :P
    So, yeah, this is not panacea. Just make out what you want from it. If you think it's BS then that's fine, probably other countries know better, but , at least here, whatever our government claims is usually the opposite and this principle is been going on for as long as I can remember.
    It's a flu, it's a fkn flu more contagious but with less than nothing more fatalities than the common one and they took advantage of it.
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  4. #1684
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Not going to waste my time disproving all your angry delusions. I'm sure your capable of finding the truth if that's what you want. But I will dispute your last falsehood.

    It's a flu, it's a fkn flu more contagious but with less than nothing more fatalities than the common one and they took advantage of it.
    Yearly US flu deaths 12,000 - 61,000

    https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden...20since%202010.

    COVID-19 deaths 439,000+ Imagine how many if we didn't take precautions.

    https://coronavirus.jhu.edu/

  5. #1685
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Care to back any of that up?

    1) The death rate is one per person. Old people tend to have multiple issues. If this pushes them over the edge, it doesn't matter to anybody...unless it's their loved one.

    2)Show it. That's not the case in the US, but then again, the US has done one of the worst jobs in the world with this. Our death rate increase is greater than the official COVID death rate by about 30%. In other words, we appear to be undercounting.

    3) What is this magic pill? At this point, we have all kinds of things for bacteria, a lesser number of things for protozoans, and for virus-caused issues: Vaccines and....chicken soup. Seriously. We SUCK at dealing with viruses. So, what IS this magic pill? Of course, there ARE pills being pushed for this. Their called steroids, and they treat symptoms with moderate efficacy.

    4) It is not yet known whether vaccinated people can still spread the virus, so every guidance I have heard says that masks are still advised until the vaccination rate gets FAR higher. Therefore, your PM sounds like he's following guidance.

    5 & 6) I haven't heard of any significant ones unless a person ends up being allergic, so what are you talking about?

    7) The problems of the EU are problems caused by the EU. They started with a policy of excessive caution, which put them well behind the US and UK when it came to approving vaccines. They've botched this, for sure, but I see no reason to blame the pharmaceutical companies for this. Nobody thought they had the manufacturing capacity to meet global demand, and they can only sell what they can make.

    8) Do tell. Which ones are you talking about?

    9) That one sounds like you doing the mumbling. What are these magic pills you talk of? I haven't heard of any that work. The ones that have any impact are targeted at getting your body to not react so strongly to the virus. That's a mixed blessing.

    10) If the CEOs sold their stock, they aren't cheering. The markets are WAY up. I got a 58% return for this year on one international fund. That's insane. THAT fund is certainly going to be happy with showing average returns for a long time, since this year will be such an incredible outlier.

    11) Up to you.

    12) No idea what that means. What are "outer grounds"?

    13) Are you saying that the wheel got Greeced?

    14) Death rates are a lagging indicator. Infection rates have started to decline across the US. The reason is only speculation, but death rates will peak a bit later. Besides, doesn't this point contradict your point #1?

    15) Never heard of that. Is that a Greece thing? Do you have proof, or just rumors?

    16) In the US, there's a whole lot of denial. People don't NEED to rush anywhere when a significant portion of the population don't believe in it. The parents of a friend of mine wanted to go to FL. They lost their sense of taste and smell, then started getting sick...so they didn't tell anybody, because they didn't want to miss their flight. The other folks on that plane sure are lucky.

    17) No idea what you are talking about here, either.

    18) Yeah, that's probably true. Of course, it will vary by country. I kind of think the US will be spared much of that because of the debt we took on.

    19) Can't even parse that statement, let alone understand it.

    Not sure what flue means in Greece. You'll probably tell me it comes from some Greek word, but in the US, flu is an illness caused by the flu vaccine, while flue is part of a chimney.
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  6. #1686
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    First of I'm not in anger . Well I'm kinda angry but not at people just the government and also because I've gained 5 kilos staying inside, not going to the gym and eating like a pig :P.
    2nd, I bored to back all this up but for Shaggy, I'll do a few , seen the posts I'm really disappointed at what is going on over there, I just want to say that we probably suffer less propaganda here. Or is it the opposite??!!!
    Also this is not a hostile post to people here, I just wanted to express my thoughts and as I've said this is not panacea, however wants to investigate he can do that whoever is on the opposite side, fine by me.

    (for wes4dbt, again my no 1 post, and again, I can speak for Greece here and only that.People died here from other kinds of illness and they offered them a free funeral if the signed for covid death. They have been exposed but the government media are not mention this. )

    2) https://www.cnn.gr/oikonomia/story/2...a-ton-koronoio
    In short, because is in Greek, Greek Statistic authority, less death on first 9 months of 2020 in relation to 2019

    3)The Pill are medical that will save people 40 or 60 % going to emergency , there are some strange names. Yes they are not 100% curing, we probably saying the same.

    5&6) OK, I have heard. We have 5 deaths here that government media do not mention and a lot of issues that the keep under the table in Israel.

    7)EU have been tricked it's all over the news.We paid for 25million doses and currently we have 100.000 . Don't care cuz I won't be doing the needle but it's our money!

    8)You haven't heard of the Gates vaccines in Africa? Also there are 3-4 vaccines that we don't get in Greece because our slave politicians just bought the rna ones.

    11)Not if I need a vaccination card to go to work. This is Fascism at it's highest.

    12) Mean outside in fresh air.

    13)Yes, if understand correctly what you are saying.

    14) I mean they are raising the numbers here intentionally.

    15)Yes even government media agreed on some of these .

    17)Yesterday riot at Nederlands , I mean the new mutated covid. There is a UK mutation that will be pushed out as an ace in the hole, or is ace in the sleeve? Err, at least is ace in the sleeve in Greek.

    19)There is no lockdown on public transportation, allegedly you are covid free there but you are not covid free if you walk around your block.

    Yes,flue, I meant that way back. I mean the blackness and darkness covering this whole BS (for me at least), probably not the best simile buuut I'll stick with that.

    Again this is not in any way aggressive to anyone here, for me it's my government puppy dog's to EU thing, people are not to be blamed if they believe the numbers or not.

    I would like to stop this , as I've said i did a lot of thinking before posting and seen an immediate attack, I am gracefully departing.

    Hope we get over this soon , hope you are right and I'm wrong but from my point of view this smells really bad.
    Last edited by sapator; Jan 31st, 2021 at 12:51 AM.
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  7. #1687
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    There is a big difference in the dysfunction of Greece and the dysfunction of the US. Both are dysfunctional, but each in their own unique way. You may be overcounting, we're undercounting. You may be suffering from a lockdown, we're...violently opposing even admitting that there is a virus (the Idaho legislature is trying to legislate away the virus, currently).

    3) I wouldn't be using the term "The Pill", as that means birth control in the US....which probably isn't all that related to COVID...or maybe it is.... Anyways, what is it? The only thing I have heard of that could come close is that steroid pill, but you can't just get that. So, I'm not sure what you are talking about.

    5&6) Five deaths? We have that many from people being run over by deer.

    7) Yeah. I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt and just say that people were being overly optimistic in how much they COULD get. In the US, the federal government dropped the ball, and every state was left to do as best they could. Naturally, the results have been mixed. It's easy to SAY the doses will be there, but the actual logistics proved to be tougher than making a speech, and we didn't do so well on that. I wouldn't say we were tricked, I would say that it was just human error.

    8) I have not heard of anything legitimate about COVID, Gates, and Africa. I've heard of Gates and Africa without COVID. I've heard of COVID and Africa. I've heard of COVID and Gates...but that was all hysterical nonsense about implanting chips in people. I haven't heard of the three words together.

    As for the various vaccines. There are some that have large clinical trials, there are some that do not, yet. You aren't getting the latter group. Do you really want it? As it is, the vaccines we are getting are all under "emergency use" authorizations where the safety data that would normally be required has been waved. In this case, I believe those RNA vaccines should be fine, but...it's far from ideal.

    11) Don't worry about it. I'd be surprised if there aren't plenty of counterfeits already on the market...and we don't even have official cards, yet. In fact, in the US, there is no solid plan to recognize proof of vaccination, and there may never be. The abdication of the federal role in the crisis means that every state is on its own. At best, we're going to end up with a patchwork. More likely, we won't end up with anything.

    12) I thought that might have been it. We have different rules, so there's not much to be said on that one.

    17) The London variant sounds like it is as susceptible to the vaccines, but the vaccines seem less effective against the South African variant.

    I know you're bitter about the Greek government, and I can't say I blame you any. They've...had some issues...over the last decade and a half, if not longer.

    However, I'd have to say that I'm a bit disturbed be the data coming out of Israel. They have the largest vaccination percentage of any country, and a competent record keeping. It sure looks like the effectiveness is not all that one could hope for. It's a bit soon, yet, for those 'two shot' vaccines to be evaluated, but that preliminary data...is discouraging.
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    ... but the vaccines seem less effective against the South African variant.
    There is little evidence for this, and what little there is has not been peer reviewed. It is prudent to be cautious, but no cause for alarm in this regard yet.

    https://www.vox.com/2021/1/21/222404...ne-coronavirus

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Speaking from experience, if it is "just flu", it's the manliest of man flues I've ever experienced. This is the kind of man-flu that wears sovereign rings and a wife-beater vest. Trust me, you do not want to go through what I did and I got off lightly... it didn't hospitalise or kill me.

    What is this magic pill?
    Viagra. It has no medical benefit but it sure makes you feel better about the whole thing.
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  10. #1690
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    I hear it keeps you up at night.
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    However, I'd have to say that I'm a bit disturbed be the data coming out of Israel. They have the largest vaccination percentage of any country, and a competent record keeping. It sure looks like the effectiveness is not all that one could hope for. It's a bit soon, yet, for those 'two shot' vaccines to be evaluated, but that preliminary data...is discouraging.
    I head read conflicting reports, some negative but then some more positive, and then a further report saying there are a lot of variables in play and it is really too early yet to read too much into the data coming from Isreal and we need more time to be able to see proper data trends taking away some of the variability factors.
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  12. #1692
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Yeah, too many variables at play, to be sure. I'm only a bit disturbed, nothing worse.
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Unless you really pay attention you can be lead down a rabbit hole. I'm amazed at the amount of so called factual information is available. Also, the number of people willing to believe conspiracy based new.

    I was on another site and a person said that COVID was a virus, not a disease. Then went on to say that if you just keep active you'll be fine. I couldn't resist asking if the 440,000 dead Americans died because they were lazy and his answer was yes. Then came the people telling me that if I believe 440,000 people died from the virus, I was an idiot. Now I wont argue that I'm not an idiot but that doesn't mean the COVID death numbers are wrong. The responses then turned to the vaccine and the same people that deny the COVID deaths were the same people willing to believe that anyone who died after getting the vaccine, there death was caused by the vaccine.

    Honestly, I don't think it has much to do with the virus or vaccine. These people are just angry, conspiracies give them a way to vent their anger, so they're eager to believe them.

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by NeedSomeAnswers View Post
    I head read conflicting reports, some negative but then some more positive, and then a further report saying there are a lot of variables in play and it is really too early yet to read too much into the data coming from Isreal and we need more time to be able to see proper data trends taking away some of the variability factors.
    Where's the preliminary data coming from?

    You have to remember that the 95% numbers only apply after the full course... at least a few days after the second shot, for the full immune response to have been mounted. Just 1 shot of the mRNA vaccines was what, 60-75% effective? (But most of the people who got it, got it within the first few days, before the vaccine had time to take full effect). So you'd still expect a lot of cases in 'vaccinated' people if they've only received 1 shot or just received their 2nd a few days prior to infection.

    Then the AstraZeneca vaccine was only limited effectiveness anyway (likely peoples immune systems destroying the adenovirus vector too fast because of prior exposure to adenoviruses).

    Important to remember too, if the vaccine is effective enough to put R under 1, that means herd immunity will come.

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    You have to remember
    Everything you said is true but I think NSA was talking more about the effect of new strains rather than the timing of 1st and 2nd doses. New strains have the potential to invalidate all the data we have so far.
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    Superbly Moderated NeedSomeAnswers's Avatar
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Everything you said is true but I think NSA was talking more about the effect of new strains rather than the timing of 1st and 2nd doses.
    Actually, I was replying to Shaggys post about the vaccination data coming out of Israel, as I did quote him I thought that was pretty obvious.

    Israel has vaccinated its population at a higher rate than any other country and as so it's seen as a bit of a test case as to vaccination efforts elsewhere as they are weeks if not months ahead of everyone else.

    The data coming out of Israel has been a bit mixed but the reports I have seen recently are actually pretty positive.

    You have to remember that the 95% numbers only apply after the full course
    Israel has already given 2 doses to over 70% of the people over 60 and around 1 in 3 have had at least 1 dose which is a pretty significant number.

    The data is showing a significant drop in infections, but they also are still in Lockdown and so we get a truer picture as they open back up.

    New strains have the potential to invalidate all the data we have so far.
    Initial data suggests that the vaccines still work against most of the variants maybe with a bit less efficacy and the RNA vaccines can be altered pretty fast to deal with mutations so I am still pretty optimistic in the vaccination efforts
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  17. #1697
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

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  18. #1698
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    That is why most people don't go by covid deaths. They go be overall increase in deaths vs previous years:

    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/c...ess_deaths.htm

    Also, even if you think the CDC is lying, what about the rest of the world? Is the entire world in on this conspiracy, as well as the majority of medical professionals, scientists, and people in the know? If this was as widespread of a fraud as you claim, there would be thousand upon thousands of medical professionals speaking to attest to that.

    I also have a question for you:

    If I have cancer, and then get in a car crash and die, would you list the cause of death as cancer?

    I assume not, since that is pretty ridiculous.

    So if I have a heart condition, and then I get covid, and it puts such a stress on my body that I die, why should my cause of death be the heart condition? Covid was what caused the death. Could that person also died from the flu if they had caught it instead? Possibly, but we're trying to calculate the effect covid is having on deaths.

  19. #1699
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    It's also old "news" ... before things were better understood about the virus, what it did, how it worked, and how it causes death. There were some that didn't know what to look for, testing that wasn't available like it is now. There was quite a bit of chaos and confusion in the early months. Lack of consistent leadership had something to do with that. IT really wasn't until June or so that it became clear to a lot of people that this wasn't going away, that we were stuck with it for a while, and that this was NOT like the flu.

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  20. #1700
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    My understanding is that a lot of what actually kills people who die of the virus, is an overreaction on the part of their own immune system. Not sure what percentage that would be, but it would be kind of ironic. Overreaction kills....imagine that.
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  21. #1701
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    My understanding is that a lot of what actually kills people who die of the virus, is an overreaction on the part of their own immune system. Not sure what percentage that would be, but it would be kind of ironic. Overreaction kills....imagine that.
    I have heard that too and it is one of the reasons my son is still out of school. He has allergies and his body already overreacts to food.. not sure what covid would do.

    Haven't actually looked at the data with regards to allergies being a pre-existing condition in relation to covid, but I figure if he is in school with his mask on, it becomes that much harder for a teacher to tell if he is having a reaction.

  22. #1702
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    an overreaction on the part of their own immune system
    My immune system turned into a total drama queen.
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Well, got my first shot yesterday. Shoulder a little sore today but that's all. One down one to go.

  24. #1704
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    Well, got my first shot yesterday. Shoulder a little sore today but that's all. One down one to go.
    Be sure to let us know when your third eye grows... an pictures too... we demand pictures...

    -tg
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  25. #1705
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Apart from our dispute here on simple flu and vaccination, I can't help but wonder what will happen then next time that the new covid 22 flue comes out or any heavy flu type.
    Should we tolerance a yearly+ lockdown again until we find a cure, or treat it as a simple flu, or, at least as a super flu, that might have a 0,6 mortality on persons over 80 and not lock ourselves in again?
    Are you able to handle another lockdown and it's consequences over a flue?
    .

  26. #1706
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    The question no one can answer at this point, is whether the fatality rate is only 0.6% because everything got locked down with social distancing and masks. I like to err on the side of caution, but I also haven't been affected by this financially at all, only mildly socially.

    However, that 0.6% is overall for all ages globally (vs the flu which is 0.1%). The rate for those over 80 is actually 7.8% (at least in Ontario), and that is with no overflowing hospitals. I wonder what it would be if the hospitals were full, but the non-covid cases requiring hospitalization that would suffer.

    Honestly, I think the lockdowns and restrictions were good to start while we learned ways to combat the virus. We are much better equipped now to fight it than we were 10 months ago, and I think things should start to be eased while kept an eye on. Allow businesses to open, maybe at like 80% occupancy but keep masks or something. If we start seeing spikes again, then we can revisit then.. however it is also scary to do that, because what if we don't notice the spike until the point of no return and cases skyrocket?

    Ontario is doing relatively well, but my hospital is already receiving patients from some near-capacity hospitals in other cities.

  27. #1707
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Are you able to handle another lockdown and it's consequences over a flue?
    Absolutely.

    But not all flu's are equal. Spanish Flu of 1918 killed @ 50,000,000 people. This one 2,200,000+ How many people have to die before you think a stay at home order is justified?

    Hopefully we have learned something and will be better prepared in the future. There will be another. South Korea is a good example of being prepared and knowing what to do.

  28. #1708
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    I'm not talking about the current thing (Btw fatality at lower ages may be as low as 0,001% so let's no go there, I gave a middle percentage) .
    OK let's say that we survived this and we know how to fight it.
    Next year we get the Greekhan flu. A super flu very contagious , with the same fatality than the covid , and with another symptom, the infected people start speaking Greek.
    We know nothing about that and how to cure it, covid knowledge does not mean squat and we need to start again.
    What do we do?
    Another lockdown?
    Don't forget that even if you have not been affected financially, most of the population did and in Greece probably 90% had issues. Also the unemployment went from 700.000 to 3.000.000 .
    I don't think we can afford this lockdown, let alone another one. And I am not speaking for myself, as I can afford it but I'm the exception here.
    This comes to the scale of, we let this slide as a more contagious flu or we don't .
    If we do, we get the 0,6 rating , if we don't we get almost all hospital covitized again , cancer and other disease treatments left back that almost certainly cause more death than covid, at least in Greece. We boost the unemployment to 4.000.000 ( we are 10mils total mind you) and we get locked in the vault again wearing masks.
    For me the answer is clear. Let's hope we don't come to that but if we do, what would somebody choose I wonder.
    .

  29. #1709
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    Absolutely.
    Greece cannot handle this as explained
    .

  30. #1710
    PowerPoster kfcSmitty's Avatar
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by sapator View Post
    I'm not talking about the current thing (Btw fatality at lower ages may be as low as 0,001% so let's no go there, I gave a middle percentage) .
    OK let's say that we survived this and we know how to fight it.
    Next year we get the Greekhan flu. A super flu very contagious , with the same fatality than the covid , and with another symptom, the infected people start speaking Greek.
    We know nothing about that and how to cure it, covid knowledge does not mean squat and we need to start again.
    What do we do?
    Another lockdown?
    Don't forget that even if you have not been affected financially, most of the population did and in Greece probably 90% had issues. Also the unemployment went from 700.000 to 3.000.000 .
    I don't think we can afford this lockdown, let alone another one. And I am not speaking for myself, as I can afford it but I'm the exception here.
    This comes to the scale of, we let this slide as a more contagious flu or we don't .
    If we do, we get the 0,6 rating , if we don't we get almost all hospital covitized again , cancer and other disease treatments left back that almost certainly cause more death than covid, at least in Greece. We boost the unemployment to 4.000.000 ( we are 10mils total mind you) and we get locked in the vault again wearing masks.
    For me the answer is clear. Let's hope we don't come to that but if we do, what would somebody choose I wonder.
    I'm not sure anyone can actually answer any of that. Hopefully governments and people are learning from this pandemic and next time there is faster action.

    If people did the whole social distancing thing and wore masks properly, there is a good chance there would not need to be any lockdowns if we acted early enough.

  31. #1711
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Hope we don't have to but putted to the test again.
    But (again Greece) now we know every mask and social distance and we are in a much more strict lockdown and (elegantly) death are more than the first lockdown that we didn't know how to protected ourselves.
    .

  32. #1712
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    I think the biggest thing is that we have enough time from when this ends until the next one to do an actual retrospective to find out what actually worked vs didn't. I would imagine a lot of people are getting a lot of money to study these things right now.

    Of course I'm sure that could have been said about 1918 as well..

  33. #1713
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Yeah, I highly doubt that for my own conspiracy reasons but I hope we won't have to find out.
    .

  34. #1714
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    If people did the whole social distancing thing and wore masks properly, there is a good chance there would not need to be any lockdowns if we acted early enough.
    True, but there seems to be a large percentage of people that don't think human life is worth the inconvenience. Investing in testing and tracing would make a big difference. Again, just look at South Korea. We have the blueprint to follow, just not the willingness.

  35. #1715
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by kfcSmitty View Post
    That is why most people don't go by covid deaths. They go be overall increase in deaths vs previous years:

    https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/nvss/vsrr/c...ess_deaths.htm
    Yep, here's another link which shows the excess-mortality over the weeks of last year:
    https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/e...U&region=World

    It allows one (over the "Add country" Button) to compare different countries with each other.
    In the link above: Sweden, Germany and the US are compared.

    And what's interesting - is the curve of Sweden.
    - at the time of the "first wave" the percentages are roughly similar to the US
    ..(which suggests, that the US was not really taking the first wave serious enough, reacting too late)
    - whereas in the second half of the year, Swedens curve is quite similar to the German one
    ..(Sweden acknowledging that "forcing herd-immunity by doing nothing" was not going to work, taking basically similar measures as the rest of the EU)

    Olaf

  36. #1716
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    The good news is that viruses this lethal tend to occur roughly once a century. They're very rare.

    But when they do occur, you really need to take them seriously. I take the view that you should treat a pandemic every bit as seriously as a world war. It'll kill similar numbers of people and cost similar amounts to national economies. When you put it in that perspective, concerns like "I put my career and love life on hold for a year" and "businesses are failing" start to drop away.

    Greece cannot handle this as explained
    I've got alot of sympathy for that. Greece has been treated appallingly by Europe for the last decade and that left your economy incredibly vulnerable. But Greece went through much worse than this in the last century and survived it. You'll survive this too. It'll suck, but you will survive it.
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  37. #1717
    Superbly Moderated NeedSomeAnswers's Avatar
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Apart from our dispute here on simple flu and vaccination, I can't help but wonder what will happen then next time that the new covid 22 flue comes out or any heavy flu type.
    Should we tolerance a yearly+ lockdown again until we find a cure, or treat it as a simple flu, or, at least as a super flu, that might have a 0,6 mortality on persons over 80 and not lock ourselves in again?
    Are you able to handle another lockdown and its consequences over a flue?
    1000 people a day do not die from the flu, I personally know people who have died from covid and also people who are suffering from chronic fatigue symptoms many months later.

    One of my best friends is also a Nurse and if you speak with anyone who has been working in hospitals during this pandemic you would know that this is nothing like a flu outbreak. My friend said that walking around the covid wards in the hospitals is the worst thing she has ever seen they are like death wards.

    Moving on to what happens if we have another outbreak of another virus.

    Firstly there was an alternative this time around, countries like New Zealand, Australia, etc went for a Zero covid strategy. In New Zealand for instance they locked down early and hard and only for 3 months and since then they have basically been open with only curbs on international travel.

    Greece like the UK and many other countries around the world didn't go for this they acted late and stayed behind the curve for this whole pandemic.


    Secondly, countries such as China, South Korea, and Japan just to name a few had previous recent experience of large-scale virus outbreaks with SARS and MERS and so were much better prepared this time around. All those countries dealt with this pandemic much better than most western countries that were not prepared. You would expect and people will demand that their countries act differently and have proper plans in place for possible new virus outbreaks. No country can blame ignorance on their response next time around

    Thirdly, one good thing that has come out of this pandemic is this is by far and away the most money ever that has been spent on vaccine research in world history. The development of Rna vaccine technology, in particular, is huge in tackling future pandemics as vaccines using this technology can be developed much much quicker. We are talking about being able to deliver new vaccines in just a few months rather than years.
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  38. #1718
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    A new "Spanish" flu would be an interesting thing. Many of the arguments in the US had to do with the idea that only old people were dying. The basic point, whether stated explicitly or in more roundabout ways, was that they were going to die anyways. That earlier flu mostly killed the young, while the old suffered much less. The reaction would be interesting.
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  39. #1719
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Yep, here's another link which shows the excess-mortality over the weeks of last year:
    I've been to that site, it's a great link if you really want to understand what's going on.

    No country can blame ignorance on their response next time around
    You WAY underestimate our politicians. lol

  40. #1720
    Wall Poster TysonLPrice's Avatar
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    The good news is that viruses this lethal tend to occur roughly once a century. They're very rare.

    But when they do occur, you really need to take them seriously. I take the view that you should treat a pandemic every bit as seriously as a world war. It'll kill similar numbers of people and cost similar amounts to national economies. When you put it in that perspective, concerns like "I put my career and love life on hold for a year" and "businesses are failing" start to drop away.

    I've got alot of sympathy for that. Greece has been treated appallingly by Europe for the last decade and that left your economy incredibly vulnerable. But Greece went through much worse than this in the last century and survived it. You'll survive this too. It'll suck, but you will survive it.
    That may have been true historically but I don't think that is valid anymore. A hundred years ago you couldn't go just about anywhere in the world in twenty-four hours. There are literally billions of more people now than then. Just like hundred year storms are becoming common place I think the same will be true for pandemics.
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