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Thread: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

  1. #1441
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    If he really had a mild case, he was massively overtreated. The things they said they were doing to him are things that are only done to people with a severe case, and generally for a reason. There are side effects.

    Also, the death toll from COVID in the US appears to be underreported by about 30% if you look at the increase in deaths above normal for the time period.
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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    And how do you fill up an Excel spreadsheet? The 64K record limit was lifted back around Excel 2000, or so, wasn't it? Isn't the current limit something so crazy high that it could hold ALL the UK deaths for the period, COVID and non-COVID alike?
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    It was Lotus 1-2-3
    Frankly, at this stage I'm surprised they weren't using Notepad++.

    It didn't take long
    No, it didn't did it? Combine that with the Drive Past Photo Op and the guy's a sociopath. I still don't wish poor health on him but, yeah... straight up sociopath.
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    And how do you fill up an Excel spreadsheet? The 64K record limit was lifted back around Excel 2000, or so, wasn't it? Isn't the current limit something so crazy high that it could hold ALL the UK deaths for the period, COVID and non-COVID alike?
    I think with Excel data modeling you can store millions of rows.

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    And how do you fill up an Excel spreadsheet?
    Turns out the spreadsheet was originally created in 2007. Not sure which version of excel but our NHS often run behind on technology so I'm guessing it was pre 2000. I'm trying to find more information but there seems to be an absence of anything concrete. About the best thing I can find is this but it's mostly speculative.


    edit> Apparently it exceeded the max columns, rather than the max rows. But that begs the question, who the hell makes a record columnar?
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    This is the sort of mess you get when you let MS Office weenies run loose. Hilariously enough many will put "programmer" on their resumes.

    We used to find this sort of crapfest all over the place before I retired. I got caught up in a lot of projects that involved trying to harvest such sequestered data and get it into databases. Not so much "data cleansing" as "data power washing."

    I'd suggest that people be licensed with periodic re-exams, but then look how poorly that works for automobile operator licensing. Scary who is allowed behind the wheel.

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    PowerPoster jdc2000's Avatar
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.


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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Hard to imagine any "developer" would downgrade CSV data into any Excel workbook format. If I felt CSV was problematic due to locale differences I'd probably opt for conversion into naked DBF files instead. Though old and crusty, dBase 3, 4, and 5 formats are still readable on most platforms, even IBM mainframes.

    But the nature of the data makes locale issues pretty irrelevant anyway.

    Who the hell are these "developers" they've been paying? Whale biologists masquerading?

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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post

    Who the hell are these "developers" they've been paying? Whale biologists masquerading?
    If you're going to make outrageous statements like that, you should at least provide a cetacean to back it up.

    Anyways, you may be close. I would guess that they didn't hire anybody, just found somebody with just a bit of knowledge and enlisted them to the task. That's the way these kinds of things usually arise, in my experience. Not through planning, but through the opposite.
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    If I had to guess I'd suspect either slave wage illegal immigrants from Eastern Europe or ne'er-do-well nephews of inbred aristocrats. But who can tell what the U.K. looks like culturally any more? COVID has sort of put a damper on travel for most of us.

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    The moron in chief is back to it again...

    "Facebook on Tuesday removed a post from President Trump in which he falsely claimed that Covid-19 is less deadly than the seasonal flu. Facebook spokesperson Andy Stone confirmed the company removed the post for breaking its rules on Covid-19 misinformation."

    I can hear the face masks from his base hitting the ground now!

    https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/06/tech/...lse/index.html
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    There's just so much wrong with this it almost feels like a hoax.

    As Dil says, why did need to go via any middle format - let alone excel?
    Did they not even have any error checking in place? I mean, something was wrapping that import process.
    Why did it need to be in any file format at all? Is this not stuff you'd be putting into your centralised DB in real time? Why the need to store it separately (risking loss) and then import?

    This is the sort of mess you get when you let MS Office weenies run loose.
    I've never really had a problem with internal departments running their own spreadsheets as long as nobody tries to make the argument that they're somehow my responsibility. They can provide a useful (and often necessary) stopgap until the Dev team can develop a proper solution. And they act as a brilliant spec for that development once the Dev team are ready.

    The kind of idiot who thinks excel is a valid format for holding national covid data in, on the other hand... that idiot's an idiot.
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    There's just so much wrong with this it almost feels like a hoax.

    As Dil says, why did need to go via any middle format - let alone excel?
    You've clearer never seen NHS computer systems
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  14. #1454
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Ha! Actually, I have. I just assumed they'd done better on this one. My naivety knows no bounds.

    I spent some time working in banking a while back and that was an eye opener. Up to a decade ago (and possibly still today) our whole finance industry was run on Access.
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  16. #1456
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    Ha! Actually, I have. I just assumed they'd done better on this one. My naivety knows no bounds.

    I spent some time working in banking a while back and that was an eye opener. Up to a decade ago (and possibly still today) our whole finance industry was run on Access.
    This is a point that people often miss. The movies make it look like the government and other large, established, profitable industries are all using cutting edge technology and have access to the best of everything. That's just not the case. A whole lot of them are using archaic systems that happen to work and nobody remembers how or why. Whole lot more bailing twine and chewing gum than the movies tend to depict.
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    You sound like a city boy.

    A fisherman knows you can't bail with twine, and a rancher or farmer knows what a standard unit of hay is.

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    One spelling error...yeesh.
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    I was reaching for a pun but it eluded me. Better to have just not posted.

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Yeah we bale hay with wire around here, or at least we use to. But I have to admit, I have haven't seen one up close in a long time.

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Around here we see a lot more of the large bales, big cylinders.

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Around here we see a lot more of the large bales, big cylinders.
    Starting to see more and more of that. Worked in the hay fields a couple of summers as a kid, my dad bucked the bales and my mom drove the truck. My job was to walk in front and make sure the bales were all lined up straight. Hot hard work, led to some shouting matches on a biblical scale.

  23. #1463
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    I did a bit of baling and bailing, both, as I was growing up. We dealt with the smaller, 40lb bales, not those massive cylinders they have now.

    I do remember one super hot day when the chaff coming up from the baler looked like smoke...and then it got darker, and we realized it WAS smoke. The moving parts on that hot day had set fire to some of the chaff.

    Fun times, those were.
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    I think this is worth noting...Up until now strictly non-political:

    ‘Dangerously incompetent’: medical journal condemns Trump’s handling of pandemic
    New England Journal of Medicine publishes editorial saying current US leadership ‘recklessly squandered lives’

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...administration
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Those darned incompetent medical journals. They really are getting dangerous.

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Quote Originally Posted by TysonLPrice View Post
    I think this is worth noting...Up until now strictly non-political:

    ‘Dangerously incompetent’: medical journal condemns Trump’s handling of pandemic
    New England Journal of Medicine publishes editorial saying current US leadership ‘recklessly squandered lives’

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...administration
    Well that's no secret. Anyone (well that's an over statement) who cared enough to pay attention saw it a long time ago. But nice to see it being said publicly by the NEJM. Wish more organization that have a lot more clout than we have would speak up. Way to many people dying needlessly.

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Evidence for zinc is growing:


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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Well here we go again. The US and most of Europe COVID cases are soaring upwards. I don't know how people in Europe are reacting but in the US it doesn't seem to be bothering people much. In my circle of friends and family I'm the only one that even checks on this. But being retired does give me more time for these types of things. Most people just seem to be annoyed that thing aren't reopening faster.

    I think its gonna be a long hard winter for a lot of people. The only bright spot I see is the death rate seems to have dropped significantly (just a guess haven't seen current numbers). Lets hope a vaccine arrives sooner than later.

    EDIT: What is up with Belgium. they had @ 8,200 new cases today. The US has @ 30x their population. That ratio would be @ 246,000 new cases in one day in the US. We are bad but that's off the charts.
    Last edited by wes4dbt; Oct 15th, 2020 at 09:36 PM.

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    I suspect there is some unidentified cultural element, probably related to how much families and other social units intermix come hell or high water.

    I saw a talk on Switzerland. There were very different outcomes among its 3 mostly geographically separate major subcultures.

    Vaccine projections seem to be pulling back across the board. Trials keep hitting various snags.

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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    I don't know how people in Europe are reacting
    We recognise it's happening but I'm seeing a whole lot of denying the science for a response.

    On the left, labour are calling for increased measures and a circuit breaker lockdown - except in the North, who've got sky high levels of infection, where they are saying they'll refuse to respect the lockdowns that are already in place. And on the right we have a ongoing refusal to publish any evidence for the effectiveness of any of the proposed measures along with a lot of back bench support for not taking any measures because... FRIDUM!

    What's really disturbing to me is the growing rhetoric I'm hearing (particularly from the right) that we should just say screw it and go for herd immunity. To put that in context, we've had over 43,000 deaths and we believe roughly 7% of people have been infected. Assuming herd immunity cuts in at about 90% that means we're willing to accept over 500,000 deaths so that John can go to a pub. Couple that with the associated rhetoric that vulnerable should just have to lock themselves away permanently or die early and, screw it, we might as well dive right in and start up a Eugenics program.
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    On the left, labour are calling for increased measures and a circuit breaker lockdown - except in the North, who've got sky high levels of infection, where they are saying they'll refuse to respect the lockdowns that are already in place
    Come on FD thats not really true at all, firstly the Tier 2 lockwown measure are already in place here, The Northern Majors are just rejecting the idea that they should be put into a full Tier 3 lockdown without proper financial support.

    They reject it becasue they know if this was happening in the south we would be having a full national lockdown, and they also reject it because the Government own top medial advisor Jonathan Van Tam told them to there face in a meeting that the tier 3 lockdown was unlikely to work on its own.

    Sage has already told them they should do a full national circuit breaker lockdown for 2 - 3 weeks and use that time to make test and trace work, but the government are in denial about test and trace system and the fact that it has failed badly.


    What's really disturbing to me is the growing rhetoric I'm hearing (particularly from the right) that we should just say screw it and go for herd immunity
    I am not really worried about this its mainly the same voices who are in denial about Covid in the first place.
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    What's really disturbing to me is the growing rhetoric I'm hearing (particularly from the right) that we should just say screw it and go for herd immunity. To put that in context, we've had over 43,000 deaths and we believe roughly 7% of people have been infected. Assuming herd immunity cuts in at about 90% that means we're willing to accept over 500,000 deaths so that John can go to a pub. Couple that with the associated rhetoric that vulnerable should just have to lock themselves away permanently or die early and, screw it, we might as well dive right in and start up a Eugenics program.
    I was watching a recent Trump Rally and they had a big red arrow, maybe twenty feet long, pointing at the entrance that said "Trump Super Spreader". I'm not kidding. That's falling in line with the Trump administration new policy of "let it rip" and build herd immunity. If Trump loses I think tens of thousands of lives will be lost unnecessarily while he is still in office. If he wins I think it will be in the hundreds of thousands.
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    I was watching a recent Trump Rally and they had a big red arrow, maybe twenty feet long, pointing at the entrance that said "Trump Super Spreader". I'm not kidding.
    I saw the same thing but assumed the arrow had been put there by Trump opponents as a dig at him. Do you think it was put there by Trump supporters? Because that would be new levels madness. Talk about dancing in the shadow of Vesuvius.

    if this was happening in the south
    It probably is. London's looking like it's going that way. I honestly don't think the choice of areas to lock down is a North/South thing, it's just that you've got the overwhelming number of cases up there. I'm with you on the financial support, though, and that might be a North/South thing.

    I'm also with you on the denial over Test and Trace but a circuit breaker wouldn't give us enough time to fix that. What it would do is push the level down instead of up for a few weeks which, given the exponential nature of Covid spread, could have a very important impact.
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    I saw the same thing but assumed the arrow had been put there by Trump opponents as a dig at him. Do you think it was put there by Trump supporters? Because that would be new levels madness. Talk about dancing in the shadow of Vesuvius.
    I absolutely believe that. If you saw the people interviewed in that piece you would to. As for a "new level of madness"; The Trump administration new policy of "let it rip" and build herd immunity fits that nicely. Didn't the UK start out that way?
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Didn't the UK start out that way?
    Some voices were calling for it, yes. But then Boris caught it and was confronted with the reality of what that would actually mean for real people. There aren't many good things to say about Boris but one of them is that he's not as big a sociopath as Trump.
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Our state is fairly rational, as the US goes (ONLY on COVID, don't hold me to that statement in ANY other area...heck, I'm shocked the governor is being so rational about COVID). The gov came up with four tiers of lockdown. We moved up steadily, and without any particular thresholds being cleared, but once we got to level four, things stopped. The governor has consistently kept us in that level 4, while allowing individual cities and counties to step back to other levels. By now, the whole concept of levels has blurred out to the point where they don't really matter. At each level, certain types of businesses have to close back down, but we've had Boise go to level 3...with bars staying open, which isn't level 3.

    What we don't have is test and trace. I'm not sure that is being done anywhere in the US. So, basically, our policy, which is better than what seems to be happening in many states, amounts to "worry...but don't do anything."
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  37. #1477
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    What we don't have is test and trace.
    Nor us. Not that you'd believe it from the Government rhetoric.

    I was listening to an interesting interview yesterday where a virologist was pointing out that test and trace was largely pointless without mass randomised testing to start finding carriers before they're symptomatic, if they become symptomatic at all. Without that the the virus will have spread several times before you catch a carrier by which time attempts to "Trace" are basically impossible.

    I think this is something where we really should be looking to China. The level of testing they're doing embarrasses the West.
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    I guess we need to set up lots and lots of guard booths where everyone must submit to a test before proceeding. Every workplace and shop?

  39. #1479
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Every workplace and shop?
    In an ideal world, yes.
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    Re: Corona virus, China major city lockdowns, etc.

    Our tests would have to be fast enough to be meaningful. Currently, that's the case for antibody testing, but that's not the kind of testing that would matter for this. That only says whether or not you HAD the virus, not what your current status is. A cough test would be ideal, but whatever the test for current spreading is, it has to get results in a meaningful amount of time. Currently, we can take a week. It's not great.
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