ReactOS 0.4.14 dev and VB6 programs EPIC WIN thread

[yereverluvinuncleber]

I've been on about ReactOS for some years now and although I have been an advocate for the fledgling o/s it hasn't been really usable up to this point. However, I've been doing some testing on the recent dev (nightly build) versions with some of my most used utilities and the result has been positive with 85% of those tested working well or acceptably. The main programs I use to develop with and for are still not yet functioning so some work to go before it becomes usable in any real form.

However, saying that still should not detract from the phenomenal work that has gone into getting ReactOS into the advanced Alpha state that it is today.

To punctuate how much of an advance it has received I'd like to point you to a thread called "Epic Win" on the ReactOS forum which shows my VB6 program running on ReactOS, a screenshot of which is shown below.



The forum link is here:

https://reactos.org/forum/viewtopic....140241#p140241

The program runs flawlessly, no errors at all.

In addition my more recent program also works on ReactOS:



OK, the VB6 IDE is not yet installable on ReactOS (testing still underway) but the above proves something that Olaf Schmidt and I discussed on a thread on this forum some years ago, that being the idea of potentially bundling an XP compatible o/s with your VB6 application. When Microsoft deprecates the VB6 environment so much that it becomes impossible to run your program on current Windows ReactOS could be the solution.

My two main VB6 programs run on ReactOS almost without error at all.

I suggest you take a ReactOS nightly build. Create a 3gb NTFS VHD on windows called APPS and in Windows load some installers there and copy your programs there too. Install Virtualbox and create an XP-type virtual machine, create a 10gb VHD for the o/s, load the ReactOS nightly build ISO into the virtual CD ROM and boot it. Install it, format the main drive as FAT, reboot. Add the APPS VHD on the next boot and start testing. After each iteration, save the main VHD as ReactOS may corrupt its registry and it easier to use a copy of the fully backed up VHD than it is to reinstall each time.

If you need help doing this then contact me as I've just done the same and the results are impressive.

ReactOS is the FUTURE for hosting VB6 applications, when the IDE functions as it should, it will also be the default host for your VB6 development too. You will be able to run Win10 and yet run a perfectly working VB6 IDE on a guest o/s that supports it. Just not quite yet!

ReactOS is NOT ready for daily use and is not suitable for stable operation but it is a good sandbox and testing tool for your VB6 programs. That is how I am using it, developing on Win 7 and copying over to a ReactOS VM to see how it runs on XP. There are components missing so for example if your program uses GDI then it will not operate as it should, GDI is an incomplete component within ReactOS.

Now I've raised them, lower your expectations but have fun testing!

[DllHell]

ReactOS is the FUTURE for hosting VB6 applications

I can't imagine how many sales I would lose by requiring a vm of another operating system to run my programs

[yereverluvinuncleber]

I can't imagine how many sales I would lose by requiring a vm of another operating system to run my programs

Well, you'd better start imagining. The decision over your program's future is currently in the hands of a man in a grey suit at Microsoft and we all know how well those management decisions have gone.

With ReactOS, at least there IS a potential for some future, beyond any such decision. The VM is a certainty, just proven. ReactOS on real hardware is another possibility, just not as likely in the medium term.

For VB6:
Is the future 32 bit? Long term? Possibly not. OS/X has already bitten the bullet.
Is the future Windows? Possibly but I'd say probably not.
Is the future VB6? Well supposedly not , .NET & .NET CORE- but at least there is the potential for one for VB6 using this route.

As a job I support applications in virtual machines, we charge a lot of money for this sort of solution as it requires extra skills to provide support for their essential programs. Be positive. The 240v light at the end of the tunnel had previously been switched off but someone has just supplied it with 48v, enough to make it start to glow again.

[DllHell]

As a job I support applications in virtual machines, we charge a lot of money for this sort of solution as it requires extra skills to provide support for their essential programs.

So not only will my program be more difficult to use, it will also be more expensive to support?

Be positive.

I'm positive this is not "the future of vb6"

[dreammanor]

Well, you'd better start imagining. The decision over your program's future is currently in the hands of a man in a grey suit at Microsoft and we all know how well those management decisions have gone.

With ReactOS, at least there IS a potential for some future, beyond any such decision. The VM is a certainty, just proven. ReactOS on real hardware is another possibility, just not as likely in the medium term.

For VB6:
Is the future 32 bit? Long term? Possibly not. OS/X has already bitten the bullet.
Is the future Windows? Possibly but I'd say probably not.
Is the future VB6? Well supposedly not , .NET & .NET CORE- but at least there is the potential for one for VB6 using this route.

As a job I support applications in virtual machines, we charge a lot of money for this sort of solution as it requires extra skills to provide support for their essential programs. Be positive. The 240v light at the end of the tunnel had previously been switched off but someone has just supplied it with 48v, enough to make it start to glow again.

I originally wanted to make my point in a thread on the chat sub-forum, that is: "In this world, there is only one person who could bring a new opportunity to VB6, but we ourselves destroyed this only opportunity". Maybe I won't try ReactOS, but I'll applaud you.

[Schmidt]

I'm positive this is not "the future of vb6"

I'm positive, that the future of modern App-Development is:
- (Web-)Browser-based (providing the clientside GUI-Renderings platform-independently at basically no client-deployment-costs)
- and (Web-)Serverbased in the backend (where most of the App-logic resides, and "the language you know best" can come into play)

And those Servers are usually VM-based these days ("cloud-wise", at the Provider-side).

@yereverluvinuncleber
So, basically you're not wrong (VM-wise, with "container-based" thinking).

But keep in mind, that VMs don't make much sense as a deployment-vehicle for "fat" or "rich" Client-Apps for the Desktop.
They only make sense, when they provide "a package which runs at the serverside"...
as e.g. the approach shown by jpbro here:
http://www.vbforums.com/showthread.p...System-for-RC5

The approach described above works:
- in a Linux-VM (on a Linux-kernel)
- with a native running, Linux-version of the NGINX-WebServer
- which is configured to delegate requests to a VB6-written AppServer(-Pool) with VB6-compiled native COM-Dlls
- using the WINE-layer on that Linux-VM, to be able to load and use these serverside VB6-binaries

And if you tune that VM a bit (sizewise), you can end up with a VMWare-image of about 250-400MB
(which is smaller than the usual size of an MS-Update for a new version of the .NET-libs ).
Quite easy to deploy and set-up within the VM-based environments of Inet- or Cloud-Providers.

Just be aware, that this covers "only the serverside" of a modern App -
at the clientside (in the Browsers) you have to work with HTML5/JavaScript in the end, and thus -
the way you're currently writing your VB6-Apps (visually, using a "Form-Designer") is not applicable anymore.

Instead your serverside VB6-code has to "dynamically build and emit" the "right text-strings at the right time"
(in form of HTML-, JSON- and Javascript-Textsnippets - after talking with your serverside DB via your VB6-ServerDlls).

But that's exactly the task every other language which is used at the serverside these days, has to deal with...
(no real disadvantage by using VB6 there - only the "GUI-wise RAD"-advantage of VB6 is then gone,
but other RAD-features like IntelliSense and Edit&Continue are still there of course).

Finally, regarding ReactOS (about what it is):
- it is WINE atop a WinNT-Kernel-replacement (to be able to use "original Windows-Drivers" in the end)

If you think "VM-based", there's much, much better and more stable Kernels to run the WINE-layer atop of...
E.g. I run a VM here, which I've build from a tinycore-Linux-Desktop (which is 16MB, no typo) and starts in 3seconds or so -
and I can easily add the WINE-package on top of that (the VM-size then increasing of course - to about 120-160MB).
And this combination is far more stable (and supports far more hardware-devices via the Linux-Kernel) than ReactOS.

ReactOS still has a very long way to go, before one can consider it for "production-use".

Olaf

[dilettante]

Web-based applications: Taking the "personal" out of personal computing.

[dreammanor]

Web-based applications: Taking the "personal" out of personal computing.

Yes, it also makes programming lose a lot of fun and a lot of novel innovations. But there is nothing we can do, and we cannot change and stop this process.

[yereverluvinuncleber]

ReactOS still has a very long way to go, before one can consider it for "production-use".

Yes, of course, agreed and I think I made that point.

The important thing though is that my programs just worked. I did not expect them to. They did however and one of them flawlessly!

We can complain about the future or what it SHOULD be and come up with ideas as to how and what and why and suggest better approaches. However, these chaps are actually DOING something about it and creating a potential new home for VB6.

The time I got really interested in ReactOS and hopeful was approx. six years ago. At that time I tested a 0.3 version and nothing really worked. Disheartened, I have not tried again until four days ago. My programs bleedin' well worked. I don't care whether for the moment that there are more stable platforms - of course there are, ReactOS is Alpha - we ALL know that.

The point missed is the amazing fact that our VB6 programs run on an non-MS o/s and they do it now. Well mine do, many won't.

ReactOS has been running in a VM on my AMD machine for four days now, no crash. Single apps only. It proves a point. There is a new potential future and you are being given another choice. Whether you take it or not is entirely up to you. Take the one that suits you best.

However, this choice feels real where as many of the others are so much vapourware.

A few people here are always saying that they won't believe it until they see it and have the code in their hands. Well, here you have a chance to see it and you can even see the code. You can build it yourself. It is real.

The ReactOS devs are not even working to get VB6 operational, it has just happened as a side-effect of the development they are doing to produce a Windows compatible o/s. The proof is in the pudding!

I will keep tabs on the development and periodically test the VB6 IDE to see what progress it has made, each step is a positive one, support for the vb runtime, the IDE, ADO support &c it will all come in time - and this is positive.

That is what you chaps collectively need, some positivity! I wish I could give you lot a combined shot of adrenaline. Heck knows, you need it!

Instead of talking, test it, find out what doesn't work but better still find out what does work. Report it here but for gawd's sake - be positive!

I will try some VB6 apps and see what occurs when I try to run them. Xyplorer, any other suggestions?

[yereverluvinuncleber]

So not only will my program be more difficult to use, it will also be more expensive to support?

Yes - I am certain of it, well fairly certain. You did choose to program in VB6 on Windows did you? Well, you made the wrong choice. Microsoft have told you that already. Reality is painful.

I'm positive this is not "the future of vb6"

Well, I think it has as much potential viability as the one you've chosen but I suppose you don't have much choice. Oh yes, VB.NET or another language, that is your real choice, but if you haven't taken it already well you are stuck and in any case that isn't VB6 and this thread is really about VB6 and it running somewhere new. I don't envy you if this is where you have become stuck...

[yereverluvinuncleber]

In this world, there is only one person who could bring a new opportunity to VB6, but we ourselves destroyed this only opportunity.

Crikey. I don't get too involved in this forum and I must have missed something political and interesting. Intriguing words. I'm not so negative. I see potential in different things, some come to fruition, some don't. Some deserve to but don't. Some are just a bit ****e. The latter is how I feel about MS and their treatment of the VB6 crowd and I think that treatment is why this whole forum can come across as a bit down-beat on occasion especially when potential futures are suggested.

None of this stuff worries me - as for me, a bird in the hand is better than a bird in the bush and when I see positivity it has a life of its own. The ReactOS team are positive and they know their goal and they stick to it. They don't care whether someone thinks they have a better method or route, they simply say, "if you have a better suggestion rather than talk, code it and merge it". If it fits they'll have it. As a result it is all progress. They are a nice enough crowd when you start to fit in and find your niche.

[Schmidt]

The ReactOS devs are not even working to get VB6 operational, it has just happened as a side-effect of the development they are doing to produce a Windows compatible o/s.

As I tried to point out already, the fact that "VB6-Apps work" is mainly due to the WINE-project (a completely different group of devs with different skills).
The ReactOS-devs write (mainly) Kernel-Code (not Userland-Code as provided by the Wine-Layer... so, credit to whom it is due - and all that).

If you download an ISO-image for Ubuntu or another Linux-Distro (like e.g. PuppyLinux, if you want a smaller ISO) -
and then add the WINE-layer to that Linux-based VM, you will end up with a much more solid base to run VB6- and other Windows-Apps,
than currently provided by ReactOS.

I'm kinda "insisting to getting this point across", because when you indeed want to contribute something -
e.g. by testing more complex Win-Apps like e.g. "a VB6-IDE-install" or "the VB6-IDE itself",
then potential errors would have to be reported to - and fixed by "the Wine-folks" (and not the ReactOS-devs).

And the primary Kernel the Wine-devs are testing and working against, is the Linux-Kernel (not the ReactOS-Kernel) -
therefore you're better advised, to use such a combination instead of ReactOS (as your VM).

Olaf

[DllHell]

The point missed is the amazing fact that our VB6 programs run on an non-MS o/s and they do it now

This isn't new. The WINE project has been around for many, many, years.

You can even use things like Guacamole and Xvnc to create a terminal server for your vb6 apps that can be accessed from any modern webbrowser. And they require no windows or terminal server licenses.

[yereverluvinuncleber]

As I tried to point out already, the fact that "VB6-Apps work" is mainly due to WINE-project

You don't have to. I think I know it already. Let me check - Yes I know that and so do probably most of us here - but thanks anyway.

Actually the Wine devs aren't a completely different set of devs. The ReactOS crowd regularly contribute code to Wine and the other projects that form ReactOS, that's the positive side of open source, you can contribute where you can.

The errors I encounter on VB6 are reported to the ReactOS group and then fixed by them. They then pass any fixes they find, where appropriate, up to Wine. That is actually happening right now as one of the devs is looking into diagnosing an IDE installation problem, no fixes guaranteed of course but it is nice to know that someone is working on it. Real support.

Olaf, you don't need to get a point across. You will always go your own way and always insist that way is the best - good for you. It is good to have confidence in your own belief. Actually though. this thread really isn't about your alternatives, it is only about VB6 and ReactOS and as we both know there is no need to compare which one is the better choice as ReactOS is in Alpha and therefore is no choice at all at the moment. It is only good for testing and having fun but so far, it tests! That is the step we are celebrating here, nothing more - but nothing less.

I personally don't need suggestions for alternative hosts as I already have Kubuntu and wine tested and lined up for transfer when Windows 7 becomes unusable. I have to say though the experience of Win10 as the host and ReactOS as the guest o/s I am configuring and installing onto has turned out to be a much more pleasant experience than I was expecting. Not having to interact with Win10 and the ease of interacting with an XP-like system without all the Win10 baggage is quite enlightening.

Unfortunately for me and other users of GDI some of the functionality that Windows provides at Kernel level is not replicated by Wine and so Wine on Linux is not currently an option - so my hopes still remain on ReactOS ability to deliver that kernel level functionality regardless of any friendly suggestion you might make, unless it is your very own VB6 replacement IDE and language. I'll take that anytime.

[yereverluvinuncleber]

This isn't new.

Yes it is, Testing on ReactOS is a process that improves over time like a good wine

The WINE project has been around for many, many, years.

Did I know that? Yes I did, I think we all do but I am sure we thank you anyway, you are kind to remind us.

You can even use things like Guacamole and Xvnc to create a terminal server for your vb6 apps that can be accessed from any modern webbrowser. And they require no windows or terminal server licenses.

That's great information which I will store away for when I need it. Thankyou.

[yereverluvinuncleber]

I have raised a VB6 IDE installation error that I encountered with the ReactOS team and they discovered the source of the error that was preventing setup.exe from displaying correctly.

The bug as reported was this:

o Setup.exe fails producing a zero width and zero height modal pop-up that you cannot interact with.
o Acost.exe that is used to configure your installation remains completely blank so you cannot configure anything.

I am raising an official bug report on JIRA and the developer will merge his bug-fix and it will subsequently appear in the nightly build shortly. When that is done I will download and re-test the VB6 installer on ReactOS and see how it goes and whether it encounters any more bugs. I will report back here on the progress.

It feels good to be able to report a bug on an o/s re: VB6 and get support! That hasn't happened in a while.

[Schmidt]

It feels good to be able to report a bug on an o/s re: VB6 and get support! That hasn't happened in a while.

And that very bug would (in all likelihood) *not* have occured on a LinuxKernel+WINE-combination
(which was my whole point...).

Olaf

[yereverluvinuncleber]

And that very bug would (in all likelihood) *not* have occured on a LinuxKernel+WINE-combination
(which was my whole point...).

Olaf

Of course bugs like this WILL occur and daily! The o/s is Alpha! and we aren't suggesting using ReactOS we are suggesting TESTING it.

But it doesn't really matter, does it? As support is obtained and bugs fixed by simply raising them. If it needs passing back to Wine it will be.

Isn't open source great?

Ultimately it is all down to choice and personal preference. Olaf, you like to 'win' an argument. I don't really give a toss about winning. What I am suggesting is merely choice, personal preference. The extras that new choice gives you, extras that might sway your preference one way or another.

Would I prefer working in a Windows-alike environment that is familiar where all my tools function and all my skills operate?

Would I prefer to work in a Linux environment that is unfamiliar where many of my skills have to be relearned?

These are the the sort of choices that are close to being offered now and that's it. No winning required. Eventually you will choose the one you want. If I had to work in someone else's garage or my own then I know which I'd probably choose but for the moment it is all about which one is better equipped. That will change over time so you make your choice.

[SuperDre]

I'm sorry, but ReactOS will never be anything more than a nice hobby project, it will never be used for any production.
And with Windows 10 now getting/having the windows subset Linux (WSL), it is capable of running WINE, and with that........... Yep, future support of VB6 on any future windows....
BUT, I would certainly not advise anyone to start developing a new application in vb6, anything other than maybe some small little tools with one purpose..
(I'm still using vb6 professionally for a payroll application which we started in 1998 and is still serving a lot of customers (each year a new application), BUT, our company also has a .NET cloudbased application (which is completely different). And the vb6 version will still be around for a couple of years probably.