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Thread: How many people do you know personally who are invested in crypto currencies?

  1. #1

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    Question How many people do you know personally who are invested in crypto currencies?

    How many people do you know personally who are invested in crypto currencies (yourself included)?

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    Re: How many people do you know personally who are invested in crypto currencies?

    Only one that I know of. It hasn't served him as well as many people like to portray.
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    Re: How many people do you know personally who are invested in crypto currencies?

    I ended up speaking to taxi driver about this, he decided to tell me all about his Crypto currency journey after i told him a worked in software.

    It went something like, he bought a load of crypto currency, it's value rocketed up to nearly £60,000, but rather than pull it out he got greedy and thought that it would keep going up and up, then the currency crashed in value, he still didn't take it out as he thought the crash wouldn't last and he didn't want to lose something like £40,000 as it would only be worth £20,000 at that point, and now his initial stake is worth less then he paid for it.
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    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
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    Re: How many people do you know personally who are invested in crypto currencies?

    My mate's story's not quite as bad as that. He'd been investing for years and had been hedging across several currencies. He'd made a decent whack of money but there was a big downturn across the whole industry last year and he lost almost all of it. I think he's still slightly in the black but not by much.

    I think there's two lessons I'd take from his story:-
    1. Crypto Currencies are about the most volatile investment available and we don't have any historical data to help predict behaviours. If you're going to get into it then you should treat it as gambling rather than investing. Don't put any more into it than you'd be happy punting on the Grand National.
    2. If you want to protect yourself, hedge. It will never offer perfect protection but it does somewhat minimise your exposure.
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    Re: How many people do you know personally who are invested in crypto currencies?

    thanks for your comments and everyone who took part in the poll so far. It's still open and i welcome further votes.

    I'm in cryptos since summer 2017 and yes there was a crash but what was nice to see is that there is a pretty stable base line. since beginning of this year the price is rising again and many people think that the next huge wave is coming, looks like cryptos are definitely not dead and any hodler who came in too late, may it be a taxi driver or not may see their investments return.
    What also makes me think is that naturally i've got many friends in the tech area and none of them is invested. also the feedback i receive in this poll and elsewhere does not tell me that housewives and gardeners are in the game (this is what is usually said to be the sign of a bubble). We all are tech affine but very few own cryptos. So i personally think that the ATH's will eventually be surpassed by much higher prices.
    Of course it is a risk invest and you may end up loosing everything, so if you decide to, just spend what you can lose.
    And further: i am just a little guy and my opinion should not lead you into anything. i am just pointing it out so do your own research.

  6. #6
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: How many people do you know personally who are invested in crypto currencies?

    The trick to investing is not to get into something that you think is going to get hot, the trick is to get into it before it gets hot.

    People get into Bitcoin now because it got so very hot, and they're hoping that it will again. It might, but the people who made a bundle the first time around were the people who got into it before there was any sign that it would get hot. Those who got into it as it heated up, mostly lost a bundle unless they also got out of it while it was hot.

    That's the other problem with it. If it's an investment, then it's cash that you don't immediately need. So, if your investment soars in value, what are you going to do? If you cash out, you have a big wad of money that you need to put somewhere else. If you don't cash out, then you'd best hope that what you're in isn't a bubble, because what goes up may also come down, in which case your valuation will, as well. If that's fine with you, then why have any money in there at all? You aren't using it. You're just watching it rise, then watching it fall, and maybe watching it rise again. Are you just hoping it will be there when you need it? Because otherwise it is just fiction. But if you ARE hoping that it will be there when you need it, you probably should be taking some out at the height to put into something more stable.
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    Re: How many people do you know personally who are invested in crypto currencies?

    I'm in cryptos since summer 2017 and yes there was a crash but what was nice to see is that there is a pretty stable base line. since beginning of this year the price is rising again and many people think that the next huge wave is coming, looks like cryptos are definitely not dead
    The trick to investing is not to get into something that you think is going to get hot, the trick is to get into it before it gets hot.
    I would say just dont be too greedy, pull your investment out while the currency is on the way up, once you have made some money obviously. I have read about some other Bit coin investors as well and many of them lost whatever gains they made by waiting for the currency to keep going up and then it dropped a lot.
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    Re: How many people do you know personally who are invested in crypto currencies?

    ^That.

    You don't have to be pulling everything out. Leave a stake in. But pull a dividend out regularly.
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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: How many people do you know personally who are invested in crypto currencies?

    The problem then is: What do you do with that money? If it's just an investment, then what you're really doing is re-balancing. It's a good practice, but it can be pretty hard on people psychologically.
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    Superbly Moderated NeedSomeAnswers's Avatar
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    Re: How many people do you know personally who are invested in crypto currencies?

    The problem then is: What do you do with that money?
    Give to me obviously, if you've got no idea on what top spend it on iv'e got plenty and will happily spend it for you !
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  11. #11
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
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    Re: How many people do you know personally who are invested in crypto currencies?

    I am Nigerian Prince and have much wealth but I need your legendary business acumen...


    If you're after investing, I'd say hedge. Invest in some alternative cryptos or in "real" currencies. Even better, mix your risk levels and go for something non-volatile like bonds or gold. It's not glamorous but it'll ensure you end up with a pension.
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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: How many people do you know personally who are invested in crypto currencies?

    Quote Originally Posted by NeedSomeAnswers View Post
    Give to me obviously, if you've got no idea on what top spend it on iv'e got plenty and will happily spend it for you !
    Wow. I never even thought of that. It all makes sense, now that you have explained it, though. I'll certainly give you all of my earnings from my bitcoin investments...oh wait, if you didn't receive anything from me, then I guess I already have.
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    Re: How many people do you know personally who are invested in crypto currencies?

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    If you're after investing, I'd say hedge.
    Of course you would. It's always shrubbery, with you folks. I Ni'd not say more.
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  14. #14
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    Re: How many people do you know personally who are invested in crypto currencies?

    That reminded me of the big stock exchange crash in Greece back in the 90's. I was a little kid then and everyone was buying stocks. The exchange market value was close or bigger than every other market in Europe. Everyone were selling their gold teeth in order to get stocks and everyone(of course) was an expect on stock market. I was one of the few that said, don't go this way, it's unrealistic to have stocks higher that Germany and England, be careful, don't sell everything you got for stocks.But who would listen to a little thin boy...And suddenly... KA - POWWWWWWWWW!! All hell broke loose. The stocks were demolished, went down, even lower from their original price before the stock going up. Everyone lost millions and millions of Drachmas (our old and favorite Greek currency. DEATH TO EURO! ). Of course the government (sold out politicians born of a 3 legged camel) and some businessmen that where close to the government, just got filthy rich and everyone else was poor. I was laughing my a## of , it was captain obvious that this would happen but did anybody listen to me? Nooo sir.
    That was the first wave. The second wave is Euro currency. I knew this is going to end bad (just wait a couple of years more) as soon as a cheese pie went from 100 Drachmas to 1 Euro (aka 1 Euro is close to 340 Drachmas). So we where paying 3 times more. This is going to end bad, really bad. Thankfully I don't really have any huge amount of cash so I will just loose my job and probably start searching in the garbage for food but more and more people do that these days so I will blend in.
    Or , well , just be a burden to Funky in England and try to get a job there. Possibly on terra forming, trying to get the damn sun to come out from the clouds more than 10 days per year
    Last edited by sapator; May 17th, 2019 at 03:20 AM.
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    Re: How many people do you know personally who are invested in crypto currencies?

    Or , well , just be a burden to Funky in England and try to get a job there.
    Bristol will welcome you with open arms. It rains a lot over here, though, so bring a brolly.

    You've pretty neatly described how bubbles and crashes work. Things are really dangerous when people start borrowing to invest. We're not there with cryptos yet (there are people borrowing but not en-masse) so it doesn't represent a dangerous bubble yet - except for the few folks who are in it.

    Property is probably the more dangerous bubble at the moment (which is worrying because I'm pretty heavily invested) because basically everyone who's in it has borrowed to be there. That said, it's concrete nature, the limitations of supply and the abundancy of demand do mitigate the risks somewhat.

    Edit>"I Ni'd not say more." I've been trying to think of a counter-pun since I saw that and I've got nothing.
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    Superbly Moderated NeedSomeAnswers's Avatar
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    Re: How many people do you know personally who are invested in crypto currencies?

    Or , well , just be a burden to Funky in England and try to get a job there. Possibly on terra forming, trying to get the damn sun to come out from the clouds more than 10 days per year
    Your view of English weather is sooooooooooooo 2 years ago, even in the good old north of England which is notoriously rainy we had 3 months of Sun last year and i mean 3 consecutive months May, June & July where it was solidly mid to late 20's topping out at 35 in some places.

    So you will need to go to Scotland if you want a job terra forming, its still Cold there !!
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    Re: How many people do you know personally who are invested in crypto currencies?

    It's handy that you all had flat caps to keep the glare out of your eyes
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    Re: How many people do you know personally who are invested in crypto currencies?

    Coworker was riding the wave making bucks but then it crashed. Not sure if he still owns any or sold it all
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    Re: How many people do you know personally who are invested in crypto currencies?

    Quote Originally Posted by NeedSomeAnswers View Post
    Your view of English weather is sooooooooooooo 2 years ago, even in the good old north of England which is notoriously rainy we had 3 months of Sun last year and i mean 3 consecutive months May, June & July where it was solidly mid to late 20's topping out at 35 in some places.

    So you will need to go to Scotland if you want a job terra forming, its still Cold there !!
    Nah funky will understand.
    Anyhow I've been there for a few months. If the weather changed so much till last time I has there then maybe you can dig me some sand and blue seas also and then I'll get the yellow pages (or is it white can't recall) :P


    Hey you top out at 35! Good , we kinda top at 48 here from times to times. It's really nice when even the slightest movement of your arm will make you sweat.
    .

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    Re: How many people do you know personally who are invested in crypto currencies?

    It's handy that you all had flat caps to keep the glare out of your eyes
    Only in Yorkshire, in Liverpool everyone has 70's sun visors and in Manchester we just let the Sun burn our eyes out cos we dont wanna look naff !

    maybe you can dig me some sand and blue seas
    Will rocks and grey murky sea do ??
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  21. #21
    PowerPoster techgnome's Avatar
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    Re: How many people do you know personally who are invested in crypto currencies?

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    I am Nigerian Prince and have much wealth but I need your legendary business acumen...


    If you're after investing, I'd say hedge. Invest in some alternative cryptos or in "real" currencies. Even better, mix your risk levels and go for something non-volatile like bonds or gold. It's not glamorous but it'll ensure you end up with a pension.
    Now I know this is a scam. Your English is too good. Every word is spelled correctly, and so is the use of your punctuation. If you really expect me to fall or it, you really need to put more effort into it.

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  22. #22
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: How many people do you know personally who are invested in crypto currencies?

    Quote Originally Posted by RobDog888 View Post
    Coworker was riding the wave making bucks but then it crashed. Not sure if he still owns any or sold it all
    Yeah. I hear lots of bragging when things are going well. I never seem to hear an update when the market crashes, though.
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    Re: How many people do you know personally who are invested in crypto currencies?

    If you really expect me to fall or it, you really need to put more effort into it.
    I only scam well educated and erudite schmucks. I enjoy the challenge.

    Only in Yorkshire...
    Damn, stereotypes denied. I'm also disappointed that, since I moved to Bristol, I haven't seen a single person driving a tractor up the high street. LOTS of hipsters though .
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    Re: How many people do you know personally who are invested in crypto currencies?

    Two. Both of them just lost their money

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    Re: How many people do you know personally who are invested in crypto currencies?

    I and my friend invested in a crypto currency platform. We didn't know what we were doing at the time and possibly still don't.

    Our money has steadily grown, to say the least. I want to cash out, but my friend doesn't. I'll visit this thread in a couple of years to share how it all worked out.
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  26. #26

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    Re: How many people do you know personally who are invested in crypto currencies?

    i am pushing this one up again.
    abhijit, let us know how it did work out

    how are you hedging your savings against inflation? is inflation something you think obout?

  27. #27
    Super Moderator dday9's Avatar
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    Re: How many people do you know personally who are invested in crypto currencies?

    22% of the circulating USD was printed in 2020, inflation (possibly hyperinflation) will happen - no matter what modern monetary theorist say. Traditionally precious metals were used because the number of metals at any given coin would increase by a pretty steady amount every year (by physical mining). Today some people are using cryptocurrency as a hedge.

    There are three things that I like about cryptocurrency:
    • Proof of work crypto's solve the Byzantine Generals Problem (wiki)
    • Private crypto's (like Monero) allow for anonymous transactions
    • There are finite number of coins (except for crap like dogecoin) that will ever exist

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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: How many people do you know personally who are invested in crypto currencies?

    Cryptocurrency doesn't seem like a very good hedge, to me. It's so wildly volatile that your hedge could be mowed flat in a second. I don't think it's mature enough to be a suitable hedge. A modest investment may be reasonable, if that's your taste, but you wouldn't want to have too much of your money in a place that is that unstable.
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    Re: How many people do you know personally who are invested in crypto currencies?

    It isn't money in any normal sense. More like a derivative with no backing asset.

    However it does seem tailor-made to siphon cash from the gullible into the pockets of those running the circus.

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    Re: How many people do you know personally who are invested in crypto currencies?

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    It isn't money in any normal sense.
    Ludvig Von Mises defines money as the commonly used medium of exchange. By that definition I don't know if cryptocurrency would be considered money just yet because it doesn't meet the threshold of "commonly used". But there is no denying that individuals find value in cryptocurrency, value is subjective, but it is there nonetheless.

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    More like a derivative with no backing asset.
    Fiat currency from just about any country is backed by the full faith of the government, which is to basically say that there is no backing.

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    However it does seem tailor-made to siphon cash from the gullible into the pockets of those running the circus.
    Do you understand that most cryptocurrency is decentralized with no sole leader or council?

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    Re: How many people do you know personally who are invested in crypto currencies?

    Quote Originally Posted by dday9 View Post
    Do you understand that most cryptocurrency is decentralized with no sole leader or council?
    If you think there is even a shred of truth to that why not try issuing your own so you can sit at the top of the pyramid scheme?

  32. #32
    Super Moderator dday9's Avatar
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    Re: How many people do you know personally who are invested in crypto currencies?

    There is no question that the early adopters made beaucoup money. There is also a problem where because most cryptocurrency is open source that there is nothing stopping someone from forking from it, changing it slightly, and then trying to roll it out as something "unique".

    I'm not claiming that cryptocurrency is perfect, just that the respectable coins are open source and decentralized.

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    Re: How many people do you know personally who are invested in crypto currencies?

    It isn't money in any normal sense. More like a derivative with no backing asset.
    Sooooo.... just like money then. Money hasn't been backed by an asset since we came off the gold standard. Both are valued purely on consensual belief.

    Crypto currency speculation is certainly the most high risk high reward investment out there at the moment but you know what's second? Traditional currency speculation. If a punt's what you're after then either is a good choice. If a safe bet is what you're after then you should stay the heck away from either and buy an ISA or a pension.

    Personally I think crypto is still a good, if risky, bet. Lots of large retailers are setting up to accept it and that's likely to to let it continue to trend upward at least for the short term. I wouldn't bet my retirement on it though. You really shouldn't be investing more into crypto than you'd be wiling to wager at a poker game - i.e. what you can afford to lose.

    I contribute regularly to a pension, but I'll have a tickle on some crypto.
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  34. #34
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    Re: How many people do you know personally who are invested in crypto currencies?

    It simply isn't currency.

    Are There Taxes on Bitcoins?

    Bitcoin has been classified as an asset similar to property by the IRS and is taxed as such.

    U.S. taxpayers must report Bitcoin transactions for tax purposes.

    Retail transactions using Bitcoin, such as purchase or sale of goods, incur capital gains tax.

    Bitcoin mining businesses are subject to capital gains tax and can make business deductions for their equipment.

    Bitcoin hard forks and airdrops are taxed at ordinary income tax rates.

    Gifting, donating, or inheriting Bitcoins are subject to the same limits as cash or property transactions.

  35. #35
    Super Moderator dday9's Avatar
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    Re: How many people do you know personally who are invested in crypto currencies?

    Taxation on bitcoin is why some cryptocurrencies are geared towards anonymity. This is why the IRS put out a bounty on Monero Coin (XMR), who is to say they acquired XMR, printed the keys, then lost them in a boating accident when in reality they sold them using a cash transaction?

  36. #36
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    Re: How many people do you know personally who are invested in crypto currencies?

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    Sooooo.... just like money then. Money hasn't been backed by an asset since we came off the gold standard. Both are valued purely on consensual belief.
    Technically, it was always thus. Just because paper money was once backed by a metal that was, itself, valued purely on consensual belief doesn't make it all that much more stable. However, I have a big stone disc that I would be willing to sell.
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    Re: How many people do you know personally who are invested in crypto currencies?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Technically, it was always thus. Just because paper money was once backed by a metal that was, itself, valued purely on consensual belief doesn't make it all that much more stable. However, I have a big stone disc that I would be willing to sell.
    this is what i consider the key thing: humans use gold and silver since thousands of years as a "transaction good with rather fixed value". This is because of its physical limitation. 500 years ago when you sold a box of apples for silver coins, it was save to believe that these coins will still have value the next day. the physical limitation guaranteed that it would not happen the next day everyone jumping around with thousands of these coins because someone gives them away for free.

    gold and silver were only of interest for humans because of their rareness, that made them become money and jewellery (=show how rich you are).

    What other goods are limited? Land prices are going dramatically upwards since years here in Europe and I guess almost everywhere around the world since the fiat monetary system infiltrated every state (Thank you Nixon).

    So there already is quite some inflation and it is surely more than what governments tell you. Check out how inflation is calculated for your state.

    Now, Bitcoin (and others) are rock hard limited goods. There will ever only be 21 million bitcoin and that cap will never change (because there is no shady figure in the background that pulls strings and then runs away with your money like critics often imaginate).

    This limitation can only make its price go up when rated in an unlimited good like coloured paper.

    The bitcoin halvening makes crypto prices climb roughly every 4 years. Unless something unlikely and unexpected happening, BTC will not go down to 0 (until some point far in the future). It bubbles out like a volcano then sleeps for 4 years. Bitcoin exists since 12 years now. It is mature. The fact that everyone can come and create a better fork and bitcoin is still the number one crypto with 44%(!) dominance of the entire crypto market, tells that it is not easy to kill. Good luck if you plan to release your own coin…

    Centrals banks will come up with their own crypto currency in a few years. I guess they will make supply configurable. Their argument will be to control inflation and being able to provide money in case of crisis (which is a good thing). Once there is no physical cash anymore they can slowly introduce negative interest rates for everyone. The whole thing will go on again for a while but nothing has changed: someone controls how much money there is, they ‘print’ more than they should, the wrong people get the money and do the wrong things.

    For me it makes sense looking into alternatives. I am not sure about stone discs, though.

  38. #38
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
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    Re: How many people do you know personally who are invested in crypto currencies?

    It simply isn't currency.

    Are There Taxes on Bitcoins?
    There's nothing intrinsic in the definition of currencies that requires them to be taxed.

    Indeed, we typically don't, we tax changes in wealth rather than wealth. I.e. when you are paid your wealth changes, so we tax you on that change. When an asset you own increases in value, we tax you on the increase. Some countries do have wealth taxes but they're not the norm. We tax velocity rather than volume.

    That's kind of an interesting aside, though, because the point is simply that currency doesn't equal wealth though it is an asset like any other. The change in your pocket is an asset. As are the digits in your bank account... or recorded on a block chain.

    And notably, governments do want to tax crypt currencies. The quote you gave demonstrates this quite clearly. They struggle somewhat because it's difficult for them to track but that's no different to paying your plumber cash in hand.

    The difference I think you're digging at is that crypto currencies aren't, typically, government issued or controlled. This is both good and bad. E.g. It means your government cannot wreck your savings by devaluing the currency through quantitative easing. On the flip side it means your debt isn't going to get diminished either. Because it's not government controlled it removes the levers governments use to manage financial crises... or inadvertently create them. And that doesn't apply only to governments. Nobody is working those control levers because there are no control levers. It's much, much closer to the pure capitalist ideal.

    Think of it as currencies as a wagon careening down the hill. Traditional currencies have a guy (government) at the wheel desperately trying to steer it in the direction he wants it to go. He's not in control and his influence is actually pretty minimal but he does have some effect. Crypto currencies don't have a guy at the wheel. They don't even have a wheel. That sounds scary (and it should) but then, with traditional currencies, you were never the one steering anyway. You were shoved in the back and were going to end up wherever you were going to end up. You've never had any choice in the destination.

    I have a big stone disc that I would be willing to sell
    Do you deliver? And do you take goats?
    Last edited by FunkyDexter; May 7th, 2021 at 03:33 AM.
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  39. #39
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: How many people do you know personally who are invested in crypto currencies?

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    And notably, governments do want to tax crypt currencies. 7
    Brings to mind a zombie banker, shambling down some dimly lit wall street, muttering "gaaaiiinnnnssss".

    Do you deliver? And do you take goats?
    No, of course not, it's at the bottom of the ocean. I would take goats, though.
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  40. #40
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
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    Re: How many people do you know personally who are invested in crypto currencies?

    Well, I can arrange pick up but would need a discount, so a kid rather than a goat. I'm thinking my next door neighbour's kid. His name's Ben.
    The best argument against democracy is a five minute conversation with the average voter - Winston Churchill

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