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Thread: No Deal

  1. #281
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: No Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by 2kaud View Post
    This is, of course, the position the EU and the remainers wanted the UK to be in - so that we give in to their demands. A different negotiating team should never have allowed the UK to be placed in this position in the first place - they have been out-manoeuvred at all stages since the start of the negotiations. No wonder the UK is now the laughing stock of the world! How much notice are other countries now going to take of the UK? We've loosing/lost much of our oversees influence over May's disastrous handling of this.
    I don't think they've been outmaneuvered, I'd say they outmaneuvered themselves. I'm not sure you can really call it being outmaneuvered when all you did was plod stolidly forwards looking neither left nor right while headed into a dead end that anybody could foresee.

    However, I also don't think you should go down the path of ascribing nefarious purpose to the Remain camp around this. I've always felt that anything that looks calculated, or sinister, if you really understood it, would prove to be either accidental or a result of incompetence. The Leavers have been shown to be barely capable of standing up, let alone walking, but that doesn't mean that Remain would be any better aside from the fact that they're the status quo, so ALL they have to do is stand still. This is actually my objection to the VB6 crowd, too. If MS ever agreed to make a new VB6, the supporters would devolve into full-on civil war arguing over what a new VB6 even meant. No change takes no effort, but change is always subject to interpretation.

    Still, I hear that May is asking for an extension till the end of June, which I'd say is nuts, except that it's so consistent for her. That would give her time to bring the same deal up another 10 times (about once a week). No other outcome seems likely. That amount of time isn't enough to negotiate anything meaningful with the EU and it isn't enough time for another referendum, so it could only mean that she'd be using that time to try to twist arms for the deal on the table, something she is clearly incapable of doing to any effect.

    It seems to me that the best solution is a year delay, minimum, followed promptly by a change of government. That clearly opens up an opportunity for mischief as 2kaud suggests, but does anybody really believe that the current team can accomplish anything? Therefore, I'd say the EU should offer up a year or more and say, "take it or leave it."
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  2. #282
    Superbly Moderated NeedSomeAnswers's Avatar
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    Re: No Deal

    Still, I hear that May is asking for an extension till the end of June, which I'd say is nuts
    She is consistent though, consistently wrong headed like the man that keeps headbutting a wall expecting eventually it will break rather than his head.

    so it could only mean that she'd be using that time to try to twist arms for the deal on the table
    It seems like she is going to try to push Parliament into binding votes on options, with her deal being one of the options.

    The problem May has is she is risk averse and i cant see her wanting to present a fair choice between her deal and something else she wants a process stacked in her favour.

    From what i understand Labour would have to agree to a binding vote process and so i just dont think it will happen

    It seems to me that the best solution is a year delay, minimum
    Yeah i thought that might be what was offered but now we have October as the new date, until we request another extension anyway.

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  3. #283
    Fanatic Member 2kaud's Avatar
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    Re: No Deal

    October is the new March! If May agrees a Customs Union (or whatever it will be called), it will decimate the Tory party for years to come and make it un-electable. IMO they are now between the rock and the hard place. For the Tory party to survive as a party either a) they go for a no-deal Brexit or b) they hold their collective noses and go for the exit agreement and then hold talks on the future for after Dec 2021. Anything else could wipe them out. Both of these options have been rejected by parliament. Their only hope now is for May to resign, a 'proper' Brexiteer becomes leader and gets either a) or b). If the new leader can't get a) or b) then a General Election is needed but not with May as the Tory leader. The longer the talks go on with Labour, the worse it is for the Tories and if a deal is done with them, then that will be calamitous for them. For the Tory party (and for the Country), May needs to resign now, a strong Brexiteer elected and no deal with Labour. Between UKIP and Farage's new Brexit party, they now have about 12% of the vote. Enough to wipe out the Tories and give power to Labour. IMO either the Tories counter the UKIP/Farage threat or say goodbye - and possibly split. It was this previous threat from UKIP that decided Cameron to hold the referendum in the first place! It is, of course, this split in the Tory vote to UKIP/Farage that Labour is hoping for as that could win them the next election - and it could work. That is all that Labour is working towards - winning a General Election soon. They don't want deals - they want chaos and deadlock to force an election.
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  4. #284
    Superbly Moderated NeedSomeAnswers's Avatar
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    Re: No Deal

    If May agrees a Customs Union (or whatever it will be called), it will decimate the Tory party for years to come and make it un-electable. IMO they are now between the rock and the hard place. For the Tory party to survive as a party either a) they go for a no-deal Brexit or b) they hold their collective noses and go for the exit agreement and then hold talks on the future for after Dec 2021. Anything else could wipe them out.
    If May can her deal or something close to it even including a customs union, i would say the Tories would get a bounce from it. I could be wrong but i dont believe that conservative voters as a whole are as hard-line as the ERG in there opinions on how we leave the EU.


    Their only hope now is for May to resign, a 'proper' Brexiteer becomes leader and gets either a) or b). If the new leader can't get a) or b) then a General Election is needed but not with May as the Tory leader.
    May wont resign unless forced into it somehow, a general election is possible but if it comes to that i dont think anyone can predict that it will return a majority Conservative government or that the numbers in parliament will move enough so that there is enough support for No Deal.

    Between UKIP and Farage's new Brexit party, they now have about 12% of the vote
    I am not sure where your getting those numbers from, 12% sound far far to high, UKIP has been decimated as a party and with its current leadership i only see it numbers getting worse from the last one in a general election.

    Farage's Brexit party would likely pick up votes but we dont even know how much money the have right now to put up candidates in all seats.

    That is all that Labour is working towards - winning a General Election soon. They don't want deals - they want chaos and deadlock to force an election.
    Labour is actually almost as divided as the Tories, Corbyn and a number of his disciples would happily leave the EU as would those like Caroline Flint who has voted for Mays deal at every turn. If Corbyn can get May to move to a customs union then you cant rule out him agreeing to it.

    Corbyn also wants an election that no secret but of course politicians often hold many positions simultaneously.
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  5. #285
    Fanatic Member 2kaud's Avatar
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    Re: No Deal

    I am not sure where your getting those numbers from, 12% sound far far to high,
    It came from a discussion on one of the news channels. UKIP are on about 5% and Farage's new party are polling about 7%.

    If May can her deal or something close to it even including a customs union, i would say the Tories would get a bounce from it. I could be wrong but i dont believe that conservative voters as a whole are as hard-line as the ERG in there opinions on how we leave the EU.
    I agree that the mainstream Tory voters are not in the main as hard-line as the ERG - but they don't want a Customs Union. Given a choice between a Customs Union deal and no-deal IMO the majority of Tory members would vote for no-deal. But that could be different from what non-Tory members who consider voting Tory might do. If May moves much towards a softer Brexit she's going to alienate many of the Tory members - who could quite well switch to voting for Farage's new party but the Tories may pick up votes from others - but I would guess they'd loose about 10% in that scanario.

    What I would consider doing is polling the Tory membership for their views on the options - and what they would and wouldn't be prepared to accept. I suspect that the overall majority would support May's exit deal. She could use these results to put pressure on the Spartans to vote for her exit deal to get it through the commons so that we leave no later than 22 May.

    The only good news about all of this I've heard is that parliament is going to have an Easter recess now that the 22 May deadline has gone - so we may be spared more of this for a few weeks. The bad news is that we've going to have to participate in the EU elections so get ready for the election fever. Andof yes, there's more elections to come on 2 May - Local Elections.

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  6. #286
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: No Deal

    Well, I'm disappointed in the length of the extension. That's neither here nor there, really. I don't believe it's long enough to get to a real solution, but it certainly shows that this can will be kicked on down the road, maybe forever. This could prove to be even more of a festering sore than it already is.

    At the very least, there ought to be a consensus that May is an obstacle to any solution. A general election might prove to be one of the most 'interesting' in any current persons lifetime, but it seems like it has to happen for anything to get done. It may not solve anything, either, it's just that the current situation is pretty thoroughly tried, tested, and hopeless.
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    Re: No Deal

    12% sound far far to high
    In a general election, possibly, though I'm not sure. In the upcoming European Elections I think you're going to see a Farage landslide.

    Like him or loathe him (I tend to go for loathe) Farage has shown he is more than capable of building a single issue party, more than capable of securing backing, and more than capable of leading it to a degree of success. UKIP's support only began to collapse once the referendum result appeared to have made it irrelevant and only collapsed completely when Farage left. Under him, when they still had something to fight for, they were ascendant. And the failure to deliver a meaningful Brexit has given him more ammunition than he's ever had before. Don't take him lightly.
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  8. #288
    Fanatic Member 2kaud's Avatar
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    Re: No Deal

    The country's pretty much even split over remain/leave - with about 47% each for 'must leave' and 'must remain' although a much, mush higher % of Tory voters are for leaving. The other about 6% are waverers and on any particular day could vote either way. One week they might vote remain, the next leave, the week after again remain. A General Election with the EU at its centre is again likely to give a hung parliament and solve nothing - depending upon how many votes the Tories loose to UKIP/Farage who probably won't win any seats but could stop the Tories. If another referendum is held it's likely to be quite close and if Brexit looses there will be merry hell on from the Brexiteers which IMO will further split the country rather than unite it. For the sake of the Country, May has to go now, a new Tory Brexiteer PM must get a deal through Parliament that isn't a 'soft' Brexit before the October deadline, negotiate a good trade deal with the EU and have the new arrangements all in place by 31 Dec 2021 (when the new budget starts). In that scenario the Counrty can breath a collective sigh of relief and attention can then be turned to other pressing matters - education, health, housing etc.

    If there does come to be a General Election, all parties must state clearly in their manifesto what are their Brexit policies and their members/MPs must sign up to honouring them. We can't ever again have a manifesto that says we've against a Customs Union etc and then have their MPs vote for it. Or a party that says they'll honour the referendum and then do all they can to not honour it. That is the current political scandal.
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  9. #289
    Frenzied Member PlausiblyDamp's Avatar
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    Re: No Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by 2kaud View Post
    For the sake of the Country, May has to go now, a new Tory Brexiteer PM must get a deal through Parliament that isn't a 'soft' Brexit before the October deadline, negotiate a good trade deal with the EU and have the new arrangements all in place by 31 Dec 2021 (when the new budget starts).
    Unfortunately that is rather a lot of big requests. Getting a good deal with the EU is likely to be a considerable challenge, as soon as we become a 3rd country we are going to struggle to get decent concessions. This is likely to result in more industries leaving the UK for the EU so they don't need to deal with increased tariffs / delays and this will undermine our negotiating position even further. We still haven't managed to roll over that many of the existing deals we have with countries via the EU so there would be a lot of work involved and it could take up to 10 years to finalise things.

  10. #290
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: No Deal

    That's why I think October is too soon. I agree that the path is the best one, but that person is going to have to be seriously skillful to pull it off at all. They can't be a dogmatic ideologue and have a prayer of success, but an ideologue would seem to stand a better chance of becoming the next PM, so....are they also dogmatic? I kind of doubt that anybody expected May to be THIS stubborn, so you never really know what you are getting till you give it a go. I just think that 6 months will be a pretty frantic pace for all that has to be accomplished in that time.
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  11. #291
    Fanatic Member 2kaud's Avatar
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    Re: No Deal

    October is only for the exit deal. The trade deal negotiations with the EU comes after that has been agreed - and even if we do No Brexit, we can't start to negotiate a trade deal with the EU until we've agreed the exit deal. So No Deal really means No Deal including no trade deal! With the old deadline of 29 March, that would have given about 18 months for the trade deal to be negotiated and about 3 months to get it agreed through Parliament etc. If we exit with No Deal, then the existing exit deal dies and a new one with probably much more onerous terms for the UK would have to be negotiated in order to get a trade deal with the EU - which is unlikely to get approved by Parliament if the current exit deal can't! With a No Deal Brexit, no-deal means no-deal (to paraphrase a certain someone!).

    So we either have a) no-deal and no trade deal or b) a deal including the Irish backstop and hopefully a trade deal. But if the trade talks don't conclude then we've stuck into the customs union via the backstop. Once we leave the EU (by exit deal or no-deal), we're then free and able to conduct trade deals with other countries (we can't at present conduct formal trade talks with other countries as we've still a member of the EU). However, these trade deals only come into effect after Dec 2021 if we either have a) no deal or b) a trade deal with the EU. If we have an exit deal with the EU but no trade deal, then we can't invoke any agreed trade deals with any other country until either a) we get a trade deal with the EU or b) the EU allows us to.

    This is why the ERG is so against the exit agreement and why the EU absolutely won't change it for our advantage. The one bargaining chip we had was no-deal, but that has now been removed by parliament. The EU has now got their plans in place for a no-deal so we either have to up the stakes or fold. With this current Parliament our only option seems to be to fold - which of course is what the remainers have plotted for since 2016!
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  12. #292
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: No Deal

    I wouldn't be too sure that Remain plotted anything. Sure, they didn't WANT to leave, that's what makes them Remainers. However, plotting requires unity, planning...and a whole bunch of things happening that they had NO control over. Could they really have counted on May being unable to reach a deal? With the clarity of hindsight, it still isn't obvious that it was inevitable that it would come out the way it has.

    I don't believe in plots. It's convenient to blame failure on a cabal of nefarious minds, but think of the average idiot you know, and realize that half of them are stupider than that. Could they really have worked out all the imponderables so cleverly?
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    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
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    Re: No Deal

    I wouldn't be too sure that Remain plotted anything
    I would certainly stop short of "plotted". I think they've simply continued to fight for their desired outcome.

    However, this does beg the position of whether the original referendum result should be respected. Personally, I think it should be (this goes back to what I said previously about paying a political or a financial cost) and I really don't believe that a customs union will look like that to anyone who voted leave (except, perhaps, a tiny minority).

    I find it hard to condemn remain voters for continuing to fight their corner and I also find it hard to condemn remain politicians for fighting for what they believe to be right. I do think they're making the wrong decision though. I don't see those people as bad actors in this, but I do think they're focussed entirely on the financial ramifications and are sticking their fingers in their ears and ignoring the potential political fall-out.
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  14. #294
    Frenzied Member PlausiblyDamp's Avatar
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    Re: No Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    I would certainly stop short of "plotted". I think they've simply continued to fight for their desired outcome.

    However, this does beg the position of whether the original referendum result should be respected. Personally, I think it should be (this goes back to what I said previously about paying a political or a financial cost) and I really don't believe that a customs union will look like that to anyone who voted leave (except, perhaps, a tiny minority).

    I find it hard to condemn remain voters for continuing to fight their corner and I also find it hard to condemn remain politicians for fighting for what they believe to be right. I do think they're making the wrong decision though. I don't see those people as bad actors in this, but I do think they're focused entirely on the financial ramifications and are sticking their fingers in their ears and ignoring the potential political fall-out.
    Speaking as someone who is certainly a Remainer I think there will be political fall-out if we remain or leave. I also don't just focus on the financial aspect, although that is certainly a big consideration, but also the impact to jobs any loss of trade will have as companies leave the UK, the loss of our ability to move freely and work freely in Europe without the need for Visas, the loss of the European Health Insurance Card the potential requirement for more paperwork to drive in the EU, the delays for imports and exports amongst others.

    I also strongly object to a process that was fundamentally built on lies - the 340million a week for the NHS, easiest trade deals, we hold all the cards, constant lies about all the laws the EU forced on us against our will (72 apparently, not the hundreds we keep being told), lies about the unelected bureaucrats despite the fact we are now having to take part in the EU elections. The fraud that was committed by the leave campaign but couldn't change the outcome because of legal technicalities. All of these completely undermine the validity of the result but three years on it is still "the will of the people" yet politicians can have the same vote three or four times in case they have changed their mind.

    The current proposals are nothing like what was offered and promised but politicians are too frightened of changing their mind or doing their party harm, the fate of the entire country is a secondary though. We were promised the impossible ad now because we can't have the impossible we are being given a mediocre pile of nothing much at all that is going to leave us financially worse off, politically worse off and massively diminished on the world stage. It is looking that we are going to suffer politically, financially and socially if Brexit is forced through.

    A flawed and mismanaged referendum shouldn't be respected and treated as exactly what the people want, most of he Leavers can't even agree on what it means and the original idea has been retconned into the current "it always meant no deal" scenario despite Leave promising exactly the opposite. I admire Switzerland's recent decision to overturn a referendum result due to the fact voters were poorly informed.

  15. #295
    Superbly Moderated NeedSomeAnswers's Avatar
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    Re: No Deal

    12% sounds far far to high

    In a general election, possibly, though I'm not sure. In the upcoming European Elections I think you're going to see a Farage landslide.
    Yes i realised afterwards that the polling was actually for the European elections and that makes a lot of sense.

    I dont see a Farage landslide, for one thing he is no longer bank rolled by Aaron Banks, which will make a huge difference to the visibility of his campaign, but he will win a good amount of votes though in the EU elections.


    Well, I'm disappointed in the length of the extension. That's neither here nor there, really. I don't believe it's long enough to get to a real solution, but it certainly shows that this can will be kicked on down the road, maybe forever. This could prove to be even more of a festering sore than it already is.
    Much like Theresa May its stubbornly and predictably insufficient.

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  16. #296
    Superbly Moderated NeedSomeAnswers's Avatar
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    Re: No Deal

    However, this does beg the position of whether the original referendum result should be respected. Personally, I think it should be (this goes back to what I said previously about paying a political or a financial cost) and I really don't believe that a customs union will look like that to anyone who voted leave (except, perhaps, a tiny minority).
    This is the entire problem with the referendum, it was a choice between leave or remain, it had no nuance to it it was a stupid question.

    You say a customs union wouldn't look like leave to anyone who voted but how we left wasn't on the ballot. If we are speaking technically respecting the referendum result only means leaving not how we leave.

    Once we start to have conversations about how we leave and what people believed and what people meant etc, it becomes clear why we are where we are. Once we introduce opinions and clarifications and then we are talking about things that we didn't actually vote on in the referendum but its obvious that these things are incredibly important to everyone and make a huge difference to the process.

    I find it hard to condemn remain voters for continuing to fight their corner and I also find it hard to condemn remain politicians for fighting for what they believe to be right. I do think they're making the wrong decision though. I don't see those people as bad actors in this, but I do think they're focused entirely on the financial ramifications and are sticking their fingers in their ears and ignoring the potential political fall-out.
    This is one of the most polarizing political events in UK history, of course both side are going to bitterly defend there own sides of the argument. As for sticking their fingers in their ears and ignoring the potential political fall-out, i dont see that as a one sided thing. We are going to have a political fall out whether we leave or remain.

    I have heard people say if we dont leave we will break peoples trust in politics, that there will be an uprising in the streets or that we will enable and embolden the far right.

    I would say many of those things are equally likely to apply if we do leave, there is no neat way we are going to resolve this that doesn't disenfranchise a bunch of people and doesn't encourage some bad actors
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  17. #297
    Fanatic Member 2kaud's Avatar
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    Re: No Deal

    As the Stack Overflow referendum has Love C++ at 52% and Dread C++ at 48% (I've seen those numbers before somewhere... oh yes, the EU referendum result!), we must all now abandon the other programming languages and everyone only use C++.

    No, I don't think that will go down well either with those that dread C++!
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  18. #298
    New Member Tattia's Avatar
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    Re: No Deal

    I read bad predictions about this programming language for a long time. But it is still relevant!

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    Re: No Deal

    Hmmm, my spammer sense is tingling...
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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: No Deal

    Yeah, but it's as clear and relevant as everything else about Brexit.
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  21. #301
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
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    Re: No Deal

    Ha, I just noticed NSA's title.


    Anyway, Brexit. Still a thing?
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  22. #302
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: No Deal

    Made the news just yesterday, so it must be.
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  23. #303
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
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    Re: No Deal

    How so? It actually doesn't seem to be making the news here at the moment. The cross party talks are continuing but going nowhere (because they're really just for show) and we're preparing to fight a bunch of European elections even though we're supposed to be leaving. No actual action though.
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  24. #304
    Superbly Moderated NeedSomeAnswers's Avatar
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    Re: No Deal

    Ha, I just noticed NSA's title.
    Its taken you this long

    Anyway, Brexit. Still a thing?
    Not entirely sure its like someone hit the pause button and then lost the brexit remote control down the back of the sofa.

    Oh Yesterday Labour brought clarity to its brexit position where it now backs every possible outcome, oh sorry that was its old position too.
    Last edited by NeedSomeAnswers; May 1st, 2019 at 05:06 AM.
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  25. #305
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
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    Re: No Deal

    Not entirely sure its like some hit the pause button and then lost the brexit remote control down the back of the sofa.
    That's a good metaphor. It feels exactly like that. You sort of feel like stuffs going on. It has to be. Right? There's no way we could be facing down a deadline and getting set to take part in the EU elections and there be no activity is there? Nobody would be sitting on their hands at a time like this. That would be crazy... right?!

    And yet there is absolutely nothing about it on the news. Somebody turned the screen off.
    Last edited by FunkyDexter; May 1st, 2019 at 04:08 AM.
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  26. #306
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    Re: No Deal

    Labour wants a second referendum on any deal except it's own - because by implication it's own deal is the best and therefore doesn't require a 'confirmatory' second referendum! They want the UK to be in 'a' customs union and in the single market - so not much chance of a deal there that the Tories will accept. This charade of talks is really all about May saying 'look, my deal is the best you're going to get if you want to leave - so take it or else'.
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  27. #307
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    Re: No Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    That's a good metaphor. It feels exactly like that. You sort of feel like stuffs going on. It has to be. Right? There's no way we could be facing down a deadline and getting set to take part in the EU elections and there be no activity is there? Nobody would be sitting on their hands at a time like this. That would be crazy... right?!

    And yet there is absolutely nothing about it on the news.
    Peace talks are on-going and are at a critical phase - so to improve the chances of their success we've having a news blackout so that the negotiating teams can conduct their talks in peace.
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  28. #308
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
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    Re: No Deal

    This charade of talks is really all about May saying 'look, my deal is the best you're going to get if you want to leave - so take it or else'.
    I agree but I'd also add that they're about Jezza saying "well we engaged with the process, it was just those damned intractable Tories that spoilt it". Basically, it allows both sides to say they tried to be reasonable without actually having to be in any way reasonable.
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  29. #309
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    Re: No Deal

    Once this charade of talks has finished which i think we all agree are little more than a PR excersice, then maybe we will find out what happens next.

    My feeling is May wants to maneuver the process into some sort of limited parliamentary voting which will in the end prove that her deal was best all along especially when lined up against the alternatives that she wants to allow parliament to compare it to.

    Labour will initially go along with this, then realise it is all a dastardly trap and denounce May as a double dealing scoundrel and back out of the process.

    We will then hold EU elections in which the only thing we can be sure of is the Tory vote will be hit hard by the Brexit party

    Meanwhile we all lose the will to live ...............................................
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  30. #310
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    Re: No Deal

    BTW, have you received your polling card yet? I haven't had mine for either the Euros or the locals (which are tomorrow). I think I must have dropped off the register for some reason. Perhaps it's Vince's revenge for my temporary (and now regretted) switch to Corbyn at the GE.


    Edit> Ah, my colleague tells me there's no local for Bristol in this round so that explains that one. Guess the Euros aren't due out yet.
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  31. #311
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    Re: No Deal

    Yes i have had my local polling card, not the euros yet though.
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  32. #312
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    Re: No Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    How so? It actually doesn't seem to be making the news here at the moment. The cross party talks are continuing but going nowhere (because they're really just for show) and we're preparing to fight a bunch of European elections even though we're supposed to be leaving. No actual action though.
    Yeah, that was what made the news. I guess they felt they had to say SOMETHING, after all the talk a few weeks back.
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  33. #313
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    Re: No Deal

    Euro Polling Card arrived this morning.
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  34. #314
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    Re: No Deal

    At this rate, the No Deal thread may outlast the Post Race.
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  35. #315
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    Re: No Deal

    Well the local elections have a seen a MASSIVE swing towards Remain supporting indy parties and the Lib Dems in particular. That would imply remain support is really strong.

    On the other hand no Brexit parties were running except UKIP and they've swung so far to the hard right that they're probably turning off anyone remotely moderate (honestly, I wouldn't believe I'd ever regard Farage as "moderate" but his successors... oooh). And LOTS of ballots were spoilt using pro-Brexit messages.

    So we're probably still just as divided as we've been for the last 2 years. It'll be interesting to see what happens in the European elections. I think I'm still predicting a big turn out for Farage's Brexit party - there's going to be an interesting reaction in Brussels when he walks back through the door. But seeing the Libs get such a strong bounce back is great and hopefully they'll be able to carry that forward.
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  36. #316
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    Re: No Deal

    I am not sure the local elections tell us much other than everyone is pissed at the main 2 parties.

    The EU elections i suppose are vaguely interesting but none of these votes seem to truly matter as they dont change anything about the one overriding issue we cant get past.
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  37. #317
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    Re: No Deal

    So is Galloway as much of a persona non grata in the U.K. media as he is within U.S. corporate media?



    In the latter half of this interview segment he (probably inadvertently) makes an impassioned case for the election of Donald Trump over here.

  38. #318
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    Re: No Deal

    Well the local elections have a seen a MASSIVE swing towards Remain supporting indy parties and the Lib Dems in particular. That would imply remain support is really strong.
    IMO, not really. All this shows is a massive protest vote against Tories/Labour. These are the local elections so the position of the candidates on Brexit means very little as Councils don't have much to do with Brexit. If you want to register a protest vote against the Tories but won't vote Labour then voting Lib Dem is a good protest choice. There was also a huge swing to Independents - again as a protest vote against the two main parties. As there was practically no Exit party standing (The Brexit party didn't field any candidates as it was formed too late to enter and UKIP is imploding and only fielded relatively few candidates), other than not voting there was very limited options for someone to vote for Brexit. It's telling that over 30,000 ballot papers were s 'spoiled' by having Brexit or similar written on them.
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  39. #319
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
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    Re: No Deal

    So is Galloway as much of a persona non grata in the U.K. media as he is within U.S. corporate media?
    Yes. He's a populist that lacks even Trumpian levels of charisma (ie sod all) - which makes him a pretty hard sell. He also seems to oppose anything which the sitting government stands for, which is no bad thing, but when your compass is so off that you'll support Saddam Hussein purely on the basis that the government doesn't... that's a bad thing. Couple that with siphoning off large amounts of cash from the oil for food program and crawling round on the floor in a green leotard pretending to be a cat for reality TV (even Trump didn't sink that low) and you start to get the measure of the man.

    Honestly, it's pretty hard to find a politician Trump would actually look good in comparison to but, yeah, you managed it.
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  40. #320
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    Re: No Deal

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    and crawling round on the floor in a green leotard pretending to be a cat for reality TV (even Trump didn't sink that low)
    Well of course not. That would be exercise.
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