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Thread: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

  1. #161
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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcilhinney View Post
    a perceived issue with the .NET VS IDE that isn't actually an issue.
    I've seen it take over a minute to start on my computer. But this may not be Microsoft's fault as there are lots of things outside their control that can cause (realtime antivir file scanning seems to be a common cause)

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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisE View Post
    how would one create a ActiveX exe in .Net ?

    I use in VB6 a ActiveX Exe for Database..
    a) track Users Logged on
    b) send Message to single or all User(s)
    c) Log Out User(s)
    d) Track User(s) Transaction(s) in the DataBase Add,Edit,Delete

    I don't have the knowledge if it's possible to do that in .Net ?
    I wouldn't expect that it is possible. ActiveX was a 90s technology that MS walked away from back then.
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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    ActiveX was a 90s technology that MS walked away from back then.
    Sorry, but that isn't true. At all.

    We are still getting new ActiveX libraries as part of Windows 10. Stuff like WMI and Explorer haven't disappeared, nor has MS Office yet.

    .Net is the foreigner in Windows. Sadly we're all paying the .Net tax now since the bag o' crap comes preinstalled. This opens a completely unnecessary attack surface and makes Patch Tuesday a far larger burden than it needs to be.

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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?


  5. #165
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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    .Net is the foreigner in Windows.
    Well, you could say the same about Java and it seems to be rather popular. Java updates are more prone to breaking things than .NET updates in my experience.

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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisE View Post
    how would one create a ActiveX exe in .Net ?
    Not sure as I've never had the need to.

    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisE View Post
    how would one create a ActiveX exe in .Net ?

    I use in VB6 a ActiveX Exe for Database..
    a) track Users Logged on
    b) send Message to single or all User(s)
    c) Log Out User(s)
    d) Track User(s) Transaction(s) in the DataBase Add,Edit,Delete

    I don't have the knowledge if it's possible to do that in .Net ?
    Perhaps then it's time to do a little research and look. Because, yes, it's possible to do all that.

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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcilhinney View Post
    I just timed VS 2017 and it took 3-4 seconds to open on my machine. The Start page takes some time to load and that happens in the default configuration but you can change that in the Options dialogue. Maybe my question about what would be an illegitimate reason has been answered: a perceived issue with the .NET VS IDE that isn't actually an issue.
    Code:
    Two friends were talking about their own success.
    - I have a farm that takes me one full day to cross by car.
    - I already had a car like that...
    What I can say about your post is that I don't want your VS, I want your PC
    Carlos

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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos Rocha View Post
    Code:
    Two friends were talking about their own success.
    - I have a farm that takes me one full day to cross by car.
    - I already had a car like that...
    What I can say about your post is that I don't want your VS, I want your PC
    I was thinking about that, too. My work PC is...nothing special. That's not slagging the company, it is just a coincidence of timing, and will be resolved in time, but it's the fact. I also do a fair amount of development on a virtual server. Not sure what the performance should be for that. It doesn't really matter, since there's a lag in working over the wire, and that makes startup times irrelevant. That lag exists in every application run on that server, so you just learn to type a bit slower. As a comparison, that's not a fair comparison.

    However, my home system is pretty doggone good, as it's a recently built gaming system with some pretty good hardware built around an SSD. Startup times on that are pretty awesome.

    Which brings up one point: Whatever is currently slow might not be slow in a couple years. Some people complain about the size of programs, but not so much now that you can get a terabyte HD for a few hundred dollars. We used to worry about arrays that exceeded one memory frame. Now....we just don't. Could we write code as compact as that? Yeah, sure, but nobody bothers because we just don't care about 64K limits (or 4K limits, if you wrote for TRS-80 Level 1s).

    So, when we compare speeds, it's also kind of important to compare hardware capabilities. Still, I'd say the biggest single slowdown with launching versions of an IDE have to do with....details, whether third party add-ins, features, or bad installations.

    I guess I could sum up this post with one word: Whatever.
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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    VB 6.0 loads in probably 1/3 of a second for me - with AV installed and configured for maximum scan aggression.
    VS.NET loads in about 1 second, but I'm using an old version of VS.NET that probably has less bloat than more recent versions.

    No fancy new hardware, just some old Dell boxes that my last employer sold once they were taken out of production.

    I keep my development devices as bare bones as possible as far as what other programs get installed, I find that is a huge factor in overall performance. Limit services that are running to just the essentials, pare down what runs at Startup via MSConfig to only what is necessary.

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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grant Swinger View Post
    This link is a good proof of the advantages of .NET, which is that things that are easy to do in VB6 require very complex steps in .NET.
    It also proves the advantage of OOP, that is, the operation that can be achieved in one step, which needs to be turned 9 turns in OOP.


    https://stackoverflow.com/questions/...com-exe-in-net
    Enterprise services will allow you to do just that. You can run a COM component as:

    A DLLHost process
    A service
    An inproc library (this is in the same process as your other code)
    There are numerous examples on the internet about these. What it comes down to is:

    Decorate your classes that you need to expose to COM with Interfaces
    Components that you want to host need to be derrived from ServicedComponent
    Decorate your interfaces with a GuidAttribute (use a unique Guid)
    Decorate the interfaces and classes that are exposed to COM with a ComVisible(true) attribute
    Hope this helps.

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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    I was thinking about that, too. My work PC is...nothing special. That's not slagging the company, it is just a coincidence of timing, and will be resolved in time, but it's the fact. I also do a fair amount of development on a virtual server. Not sure what the performance should be for that. It doesn't really matter, since there's a lag in working over the wire, and that makes startup times irrelevant. That lag exists in every application run on that server, so you just learn to type a bit slower. As a comparison, that's not a fair comparison.

    However, my home system is pretty doggone good, as it's a recently built gaming system with some pretty good hardware built around an SSD. Startup times on that are pretty awesome.

    Which brings up one point: Whatever is currently slow might not be slow in a couple years. Some people complain about the size of programs, but not so much now that you can get a terabyte HD for a few hundred dollars. We used to worry about arrays that exceeded one memory frame. Now....we just don't. Could we write code as compact as that? Yeah, sure, but nobody bothers because we just don't care about 64K limits (or 4K limits, if you wrote for TRS-80 Level 1s).

    So, when we compare speeds, it's also kind of important to compare hardware capabilities. Still, I'd say the biggest single slowdown with launching versions of an IDE have to do with....details, whether third party add-ins, features, or bad installations.

    I guess I could sum up this post with one word: Whatever.
    Microsoft used to be the dominant giant. When Microsoft was closed and conservative, competitors (such as Google) then defeated it through open source and openness. When Microsoft's products are getting bigger and more inefficient, competitors will beat it with smaller, more efficient products.

  12. #172
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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dreammanor View Post
    This link is a good proof of the advantages of .NET, which is that things that are easy to do in VB6 require very complex steps in .NET.
    It also proves the advantage of OOP, that is, the operation that can be achieved in one step, which needs to be turned 9 turns in OOP.
    I'm afraid that this doesn't really work. While it is true that there are some things that are easy to do in VB6 that require complex steps in .NET, the reverse is also true. Creating a COM component in VB.NET isn't a great example to use for the superiority of VB6 because, in my experience, the most common reason for having to create a COM component in .NET is so that it can be used in VB6 code. In my decade and a half of .NET development, I've not once had to create a COM-visible assembly so the fact that doing so is laborious has exactly zero effect on me.

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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcilhinney View Post
    I'm afraid that this doesn't really work. While it is true that there are some things that are easy to do in VB6 that require complex steps in .NET, the reverse is also true. Creating a COM component in VB.NET isn't a great example to use for the superiority of VB6 because, in my experience, the most common reason for having to create a COM component in .NET is so that it can be used in VB6 code. In my decade and a half of .NET development, I've not once had to create a COM-visible assembly so the fact that doing so is laborious has exactly zero effect on me.
    Maybe you can list some of the opposite examples to compare the features of VB6 and .NET. For example, things that are easy to do in .NET require very complex steps in VB6.

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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    It feels like we're getting to that VB6/.NET homeostasis point where nothing gets resolved, and since I don't have much faith in the .Netters to demonstrate much of anything of substance, I'll play the role of the devils' advocate here and ask a scary question of my own:

    Hardcore VB6ers- would you still recommend VB6 as a viable language for NEW software development? Please explain.

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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dreammanor View Post
    Maybe you can list some of the opposite examples to compare the features of VB6 and .NET. For example, things that are easy to do in .NET require very complex steps in VB6.
    I've never actually used VB6 in anger myself. I tried it once, many years ago, and didn't like it at the time. That's not necessarily a reflection on the language - there are undoubtedly many things that I don't like that aren't inherently bad - but I found that it didn't suit me, while I took to VB.NET immediately and with fervour. As a result, I have to rely on what those who have used VB6 say on matters like this and I have seen many developers who have migrated from VB6 to VB.NET say that they find doing various things easier in VB.NET. Maybe that's just because they didn't know the best way to do them in VB6, at least in some cases, but I suspect that that also applies to at least some complaints about VB.NET from long-time VB6 developers.

    With that in mind, one of the most common topics I've seen those who have migrated use as an example is multi-threading. I don't know how multi-threading is implemented in VB6 but I don't think that it was ever a focus for those who developed the language and I don't think I've ever heard a developer speak of the options available in a favourable manner. .NET has numerous options for implementing multi-threading and parallelism, with some of the newer options being built on top of the older ones. Just recently, I created a Wait/Progress dialogue for Windows Forms that can be used in any application can be displayed modally over any form to allow work to be done in the background. It took me a few minutes to whip up and it can be used simply by showing a form and handling an event or two. I'm not sure how that would be done in VB6 but my impression is that it would not be quite so straightforward.

    Obviously multi-threading is not the be all and end all of Windows GUI programming but, in this day and age, I'd suggest that it's probably more common and more useful than creating COM components for the majority of people.

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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jpbro View Post
    It feels like we're getting to that VB6/.NET homeostasis point where nothing gets resolved, and since I don't have much faith in the .Netters to demonstrate much of anything of substance, I'll play the role of the devils' advocate here and ask a scary question of my own:

    Hardcore VB6ers- would you still recommend VB6 as a viable language for NEW software development? Please explain.
    I reckon that this is a rather pertinent post. I'd say that a significant reason that nothing ever gets resolved is that there isn't really anything to resolve. Whether VB6 or VB.NET is better is largely a matter of opinion. VB6 can still do all the things it did so if you just want to do those and you like doing them in the way VB6 does them then there doesn't have to be any motivation to change. VB.NET and .NET in general is enjoyable to many and if you enjoy what and how .NET does them, why should you stick to VB6? I think that both groups resent the other, at least in part, because of their actual or perceived effect on themselves. By that I mean that VB6 developers are pissed off that they didn't get the VB7 and beyond that they wanted and think that Microsoft had a responsibility to provide and VB.NET developers as a group are in the way of them getting that. Likewise, VB.NET developers see VB6 developers as hindering the growth and development of VB.NET. Both might be right: if VB.NET had completely flopped then Microsoft might have continued development of COM-based VB and stuck to C# only for .NET and if VB6 developers had migrated to VB.NET en masse then VB may have got a bit more love as a member of the .NET community.

    Personally, I didn't like VB6 when I tried it but I have no issue with someone who uses it and does like it sticking with it. I do have an issue with VB6 developers trying to push it on new developers though. I think that it's done out of spite and for validation in many cases. Spite because it means that Microsoft don't get another VB.NET developer and validation because more people using VB6 means that their decision to use it is more justified. Espousing the good points of VB6 is one thing but doing so without pointing out the fact that Microsoft haven't made any improvements to VB6 in decades, never will and would prefer the language to die off is not really being fair to someone who is just starting out in development and doesn't know what will benefit them long-term.

    Before anyone gets too upset, I know I'm making generalisations here and no generalisation is ever going to apply to an entire group. It may well not even apply to a majority. Many (most?) groups have a vocal minority so when we say "this group says this" we're generally referring to that vocal minority and possibly not even all of them. I would imagine that the majority of VB6 developers haven't had an argument on the subject in a long time and just get on and write their code, as do the majority of VB.NET developers.

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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    i would never recommend vb6 to anyone that want to make a career.
    neither would i recommend to a friend that want to be serious with programming.
    but i could recommend to a friend if he wish to make some stuff for personal use, as i can also be of assistance.

    if u already know vb6, i would recommend to keep using it if you are fine with windows.

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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jpbro View Post
    Hardcore VB6ers- would you still recommend VB6 as a viable language for NEW software development? Please explain.
    No, but I'll use VB6 to make some personal or internal development tools, just like I'm doing now.

    Microsoft abandoned VB6, but .NET did not benefit from it. More and more people are turning away from .NET to other non-Microsoft development tools.

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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jpbro View Post
    It feels like we're getting to that VB6/.NET homeostasis point where nothing gets resolved, and since I don't have much faith in the .Netters to demonstrate much of anything of substance, I'll play the role of the devils' advocate here and ask a scary question of my own:

    Hardcore VB6ers- would you still recommend VB6 as a viable language for NEW software development? Please explain.
    well thank God I will only be working for a few more years, so once retired I will be writing stuff for Wildlife statistics
    Writing NEW Software is an Investment for Years, so I don't think vb6 should be the language to choose
    if all stays the way it is now.

    the one thing that M$ didn't take into account, is that VB6 is(would be) still popular... in Year 2019 !
    to hunt a species to extinction is not logical !
    since 2010 the number of Tigers are rising again in 2016 - 3900 were counted. with Baby Callas it's 3901, my wife and I had 2-3 months the privilege of raising a Baby Tiger.

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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    having recently explored recent versions of net VS, it just seems that actual development in the net VS IDE would be much more cumbersome. So, I've come to believe that the VB6 IDE is just an absolutely superior IDE
    All this talk that the VB6 IDE is somehow superior to the VS .Net one is just partisan nonsense.

    Firstly I started out as a VB6 developer so i know the language and i know the IDE and over the years as my career took me from place to place i learned new stuff ( not just Microsoft as i worked with ColdFusion & Flex for while and also PHP) now i primarily work with C# .Net although i still support a couple of VB.Net project.

    Strictly talking about the IDE and not the languages the current VS versions (which incidentally take about 5 - 6 seconds to open for me on a reasonable but far from top of the line laptop) it;

    -allows you to open multiple code windows, and even position them side by side if you want
    -has far superior intellisense
    -has a much better way of dealing with references
    -has nuGet for adding 3rd party controls/dlls which if you have never used is like light years ahead of the VB6 way of doing this
    -allows you to create a folder structure in the IDE to put you various classes / forms in etc which makes it a hell of a lot easier to find stuff in larger projects
    -has superior source control integration
    -alerts you to errors in your code in a far far nicer way and give you an interface to deal with them

    and that is just for starters straight off the top of my head

    There are a bunch of other features that are not even comparable as you just cant do them in the VB6 IDE such as Mobile development which i haven't even focused on



    There is just no comparison between the IDE's at all, i cant think of 1 single feature in the VB6 IDE that i prefer !
    Please Mark your Thread "Resolved", if the query is solved & Rate those who have helped you



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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Microsoft used to be the dominant giant. When Microsoft was closed and conservative, competitors (such as Google) then defeated it through open source and openness. When Microsoft's products are getting bigger and more inefficient, competitors will beat it with smaller, more efficient products.
    Microsoft abandoned VB6, but .NET did not benefit from it. More and more people are turning away from .NET to other non-Microsoft development tools.
    I understand you dont like Microsoft's decision on not making a new version of VB6 but these statements are just false and demonstrably so.

    Firstly MS has not been defeated, it's a company (and a very rich one) not an end of level boss in a game. Sure they made a bunch of bad decisions when Steve Balmer was in charge that actually harmed them and lost them development share, also they where late to modern web development in general.

    There were times when i questioned what they were doing and what there strategy was but one thing that is abundantly clear since Satya Nadella has been in charge is that MS has gone Open Source in a big way. Also they are looking to undo some of the less good decisions that were made in .Net and they are doing that through .Net Core.

    With .NET Core firstly its all Open Source, also it no longer relies on a framework being installed as it packages the bits of the framework you use with your application. This in turn has led to speed improvements as they can now do pre-compilation that was impossible with the old framework model.

    So .NET Core is a faster, leaner, more efficient product

    Secondly your assertion that more and more people are turning away from MS Development tools just doesn't not match what i see in the work place. There are more .NET jobs than pretty much anything else in the market place in the UK anyway and i would bet in the US too (primarily C# and primarily web or mobile). Yes there are lots of other development tools which is healthy and keeps the market competitive.

    I make my living using MS tools for 20 years and for the last 12 years with .NET and i am much more enthused using the development tools now than at any other point in my career.
    Please Mark your Thread "Resolved", if the query is solved & Rate those who have helped you



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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by NeedSomeAnswers View Post
    All this talk that the VB6 IDE is somehow superior to the VS .Net one is just partisan nonsense.
    It's not nonsense for me - since I'm not missing much (for Desktop- and also Web-Development).
    A load-time of 0.5sec compared to your 5sec counts as a large plus in my book. <shrug>
    Another plus for us is the deployment (which works regfree with the same binaries from Win7 to Win10 - even XP - although our last customers switched from XP already 4 years ago).

    Quote Originally Posted by NeedSomeAnswers View Post
    ... other points snipped ...
    - has superior source control integration
    That last one is the only point, I'm missing in the VB6-IDE...
    (the external tool we use at work, to sync our VB6-Projects with BitBucket- or GitHub-Repos, works well enough though).

    As for mobile-Apps - we develop them as PWAs...:
    - using VB6-COM-Dlls at the serverside (behind IIS)
    - and the OpenUI5-js-framework for responsive SPAs which work in all current Mobile- and Desktop-Browsers

    So no .NET for us (despite developing modern Apps).

    Olaf

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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by NeedSomeAnswers View Post
    All this talk that the VB6 IDE is somehow superior to the VS .Net one is just partisan nonsense.

    There is just no comparison between the IDE's at all, i cant think of 1 single feature in the VB6 IDE that i prefer !
    Instant startup, instant debug, edit and continue... off the top of my head.

    I also like compiling to machine code, and the instant startup / small footprint of the resulting apps. Makes deployment almost as easy as a web app.

    I actually use VIM, VS, VS Code, VB6 and MS Access on the regular though. It sounds like you might not even have VB6 installed on your laptop. But please - come in here and tell us how inferior something is that you haven't used in 12 years.

    I do appreciate the enthusiasm. It's wonderful to be happy with your dev tools.

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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmidt View Post
    As for mobile-Apps - we develop them as PWAs...:
    - using VB6-COM-Dlls at the serverside (behind IIS)
    - and the OpenUI5-js-framework for responsive SPAs which work in all current Mobile- and Desktop-Browsers

    So no .NET for us (despite developing modern Apps).

    Olaf
    Last year I developed a web user management system using RC5 + nginx + vbFastCGI, which ran on a Linux server. However, our desktop software needs to be integrated with QQ, WeChat, WeChat-Payment, Alipay, all of which have no interfaces and examples for VB6, we can't do anything about it. In addition, our customers are completely unable to accept the win-desktop apps, they require all software must be web-apps and mobile-apps. We suffered heavy losses. In order to avoid more money loss, we have to give up VB6(no longer use VB6 to develop commercial software), give up all desktop software development.

    I know that you can develop modern apps with VB6, but most VB6ers (including me) can't do this because we can't find relevant information and complete examples on the Internet.

    Even so, I still think that RC5 is the best VB6 framework I've ever seen and used. I'm very fortunate that I can use this great tool and I'll continue to use VB6 and RC5 to make some personal development tools. Thank you, Olaf.
    Last edited by dreammanor; Jan 8th, 2019 at 10:54 AM.

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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    well, in the communities im a member of, im developing tools, that i don't see anyone else do with other "superior" languages. i have been around in those communities more than 10 years, so people had time to make a superior tools to replace my inferior ones.
    thousands of people are using my inferior vb6 tools. in my recent zippyshare folder (just 3 years old), i see right now more than 20000 downloads (10888, 9523, 2320, 530), and that only if they use the zippy, i also upload directly into forums/discord and other places and people are also sharing it on their own. so impossible to know exactly how many. but views in the threads where i upload my stuff are in the millions.

    right now im also creating a game using direct2d that is running smoothly in my machine.

    what i try to say is, vb6 is still a good language to use, if you already know it, this community is great, u can learn and improve and that is also why im still using it. without vb6 communities im sure i would use something else.
    even so, i would not recommend it for someone that want to start programming, but that is not equal that vb6 is bad.

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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by DEXWERX View Post
    But please - come in here and tell us how inferior something is that you haven't used in 12 years.
    What are you suggesting? I agree with NSA, as I did go back to the VB6 IDE and found it painful, and I suppose it was about 12 years ago, too. So, are you suggesting that we've forgotten, or are you saying that it has improved since then?

    Though, I should note that I use VS2010 more than any other version, and that one has the same startup performance as people are reporting for VB6. I agree that startup has gotten sluggish in the more recent versions, it just wasn't back then. However, I also note that the reason it has gotten sluggish is because of all the added feedback items in the newer versions, and I am aware that I make abundant use of those when I work in VS2017. So, I end up with a trade-off that I'm pretty comfortable with: Fast startup, but lacking some feedback features, versus slow startup and abundant feedback features.

    I'm not counting anything other than visual feedback features because I don't know that they have anything to do with the performance. I can't really work with JS in VS2010 (if I can, I wouldn't want to, as it would be a rudimentary editor if there even was one), but the fact that there is a good JS editor in VS2017 doesn't seem likely to have anything to do with opening a .NET project.
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  27. #187
    Wall Poster TysonLPrice's Avatar
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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Microsoft SSMS powered by Visual Studio also seems to take longer to come up each version. I'm on 2014 and it is noticeably slower coming up than prior versions. After that it is fine though.
    Please remember next time...elections matter!

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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    What are you suggesting? I agree with NSA, as I did go back to the VB6 IDE and found it painful, and I suppose it was about 12 years ago, too. So, are you suggesting that we've forgotten, or are you saying that it has improved since then?
    No. I'm saying it adds nothing to the discussion, to point out that you can't think of something VB6 does better than VS, when you haven't used VB in over a decade. You're used to the flaws and have become dependent on the features of VS - so yes, it's going to be painful using something you've long ago lost expertise in. I can assure you though - especially with newer versions of VS, that going from an IDE as fast as VB6 to VS is just as painful. I think I only keep newer versions of VS for the updated C/C++ platform headers.

    (FYI I also prefer VS2010, but only because 2005/2008 couldn't target x64)

    I do like where VS Code has gone though. It's finally fast enough, that it's my primary text editor.


    food for thought:

    Quote Originally Posted by Just Chase Ex-Microsoft
    “Ever since Longhorn the Windows team has had an extremely bitter attitude towards .NET. I don’t think its completely fair as they essentially went all in on a brand new technology and .NET has done a lot of evolving since then but nonetheless that sentiment remains among some of the now top players in Microsoft. So effectively there is a sentiment that some of the largest disasters in Microsoft history (IE’s fall from grace and multiple “bad” versions of Windows) are, essentially, totally the fault of gambling on .NET and losing (from their perspective). “
    Last edited by DEXWERX; Jan 8th, 2019 at 04:13 PM.

  29. #189
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by DEXWERX View Post
    No. I'm saying it adds nothing to the discussion, to point out that you can't think of something VB6 does better than VS, when you haven't used VB in over a decade. You're used to the flaws and have become dependent on the features of VS - so yes, it's going to be painful using something you've long ago lost expertise in.
    Ah, yeah, I can see it that way. I don't think it's right, but I think I see where you're coming from. To be sure, the muscle memory is gone after all these years, but if you look at modern IDEs (I certainly can't say ALL of them, as I've only worked with a selection), there are a set of common features, such as tab pages for multiple pages, and collapsible regions (darn, can't check something on this site on Chrome, but it DOES have at least SOME collapsible region capability), that you see in all IDEs after a certain time. Those are the features I really missed with VB6, because you were forever opening and closing things. They were fast to open and close, and they were designed for a time when monitors were smaller and singular, but those are the pain points I remember. There was just too much clutter. Clutter I created myself, but I DO create clutter, and want to be able to slide it out of the way. Heck, I'm annoyed by VS's tendency to open things fully expanded, though one quick key combo tucks it all away. I wish I could organize my house that effectively.

    I think that may be partly why I like VS2010 so much. I believe that it was starting with 2013 (2012 was just ugly. It wasn't the features, it was the looks. Forget that one.) that MS started to add new items to the scrollbars. Seeing all the errors currently in a page is pretty nice, and seeing all search matches is really nice. It wouldn't have mattered much back when my monitor was 800x600, since there weren't all that many lines of code on the screen to begin with, but since you couldn't collapse anything, you didn't get that high level view of things, either. It was adding visual feedback features like that which appears to have slowed VS down so badly. It used to load a code page, and maybe some breakpoints. Now it loads the code page, loads the breakpoints, notes any error and adds gems for those, notes any searches and adds gems for those, draws ghost lines attaching If to End If, For to Next, and so on. That's a lot of visual elements that have to be worked out and rendered. I do find that I use all of them (there are many more, those are just the most useful ones to me, currently), I could just live without them. They aren't reducing clutter, and don't do that much to speed navigation. What they do is speed visual comprehension. Nice, but I can live without it. Clutter....just distracts, so it seems like everybody is doing collapsible code and tab pages.

    As for the quote, the older I get, the less I believe humans are intelligent. We like to talk about progress as being an arrow, and when you look back on it, it does look like an arrow, but at the time it does not. Worse, everybody observing history sees a different arrow. I look at my job, and realize that the people who have really shaped my organization didn't do so based on any policy. It was just a bunch of individuals deciding to go their own direction. As long as that worked out, they were rewarded....very mildly. In fact, they were rewarded largely by not being punished. If things didn't work out, they weren't usually punished much, except for some pretty public ridicule (and being awarded with the back end of a bobcat mounted on a plaque), as long as they meant well and didn't cause too great a disaster. So, we aren't following the lead of any one leader, it's a bunch of individuals heading off in their own direction that causes progress for us, and then almost by accident, since you never quite know where you'll end up when you venture into uncharted territory.

    I have my own inside lead (used to, actually, but not for many years) at MS, especially involved with the end of VB6 and start of .NET. I don't think they'd entirely agree with the perspective in the quote you've added, though I don't think they'd entirely disagree. That decision was made with considerable anxiety and doubt. Could that result in second guessing? Well, yeah, for any normal person it would. Would it result in bitterness if it wasn't an unalloyed success? Absolutely, especially in those quarters that didn't agree with the decision. Still, it's just a matter of perspective, and there are likely to be loads of them. Be careful to balance the views. Only a few views really matter to an organization, and you'd have to be careful to find the ones that did.
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  30. #190
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    That was a long post, it could be summed up as: It's all the same thing. Everybody has parts they like and don't like. Anybody who wants a new VB6 has features they REALLY want and features they don't care about. These sets are not the same for any two people I've ever heard from. I'm no different, whether it is VB6, VB.NET, or any other language or IDE.
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  31. #191
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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    I hate .NET for a lot of reasons. One of the reasons is this:

    VB6 is like a small farm aircraft. You can use it to spray pesticides on your farm. You can also use it to transport goods from the farmer's market. You can also drive it to hang out in the sky. Even sometimes, you use it as a tractor.

    .Net is like a complicated and expensive F35 fighter, but 90% of the work it does is still spraying pesticides on the farm. Although the drivers said that the driving experience of the F35 is very nice, and although it also needs to install a vertical take-off and landing engine when spraying pesticides.

    Olaf converted a VB6 farm aircraft, and he equipped it with two rocket engines, which allowed it to load more cargo and cruise at supersonic speeds, but most farmers were afraid to equip their aircraft with rocket engines because of the fear of being too fast. In addition, they don't know how to maintain and repair the rocket engines.
    Last edited by dreammanor; Jan 9th, 2019 at 03:32 AM.

  32. #192
    .NUT jmcilhinney's Avatar
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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dreammanor View Post
    I hate .NET for a lot of reasons. One of the reasons is this:
    That sounds like a reason to not use it but to hate it? That says more about you than VB.NET, I think.

  33. #193
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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by dreammanor View Post
    . . . but most farmers were afraid to equip their aircraft with rocket engines because of the fear of being too fast.
    The fear comes from the observation that rocket engines explode more often than simple propellers unless you mean "farmes being too fast" as a result of exploding boosters ala Wile E. Coyote? :-))

    cheers,
    </wqw>

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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Attached Files Attached Files

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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by jmcilhinney View Post
    That sounds like a reason to not use it but to hate it? That says more about you than VB.NET, I think.
    The problem is that you can't simply "don't use it". And it's big, really big. Enormous and useless, and it's development meant that nothing else was properly progressed since. So, I think I can say I hate it.
    I don't like java too, but I don't have to live with it.

    Another advantage of VB6 applications is that you can turn your back on windows and use them within linux if you decide to.
    Carlos

  36. #196
    Fanatic Member TTn's Avatar
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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Millennial View Post
    In the words of Alan Cooper:
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    I vote that we close the thread. We've all said our peace.

  37. #197
    PowerPoster ChrisE's Avatar
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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    well it's getting kinda childish now.

    VB6 vs. .Net discussions allways evolve into...Nothing or Exit Sub..
    really a shame with all the knowledge in the Forums here
    to hunt a species to extinction is not logical !
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  38. #198
    Superbly Moderated NeedSomeAnswers's Avatar
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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    It's not nonsense for me - since I'm not missing much (for Desktop- and also Web-Development).
    A load-time of 0.5sec compared to your 5sec counts as a large plus in my book. <shrug>
    So what your saying is the VB6 IDE starting faster makes it a better IDE ? (and let me be absolutely clear here i am ONLY talking about the IDE not the language) as you have provided no other features that you think are better in the VB6 IDE the VS IDE apart from that ?

    As for mobile-Apps - we develop them as PWAs...:
    - using VB6-COM-Dlls at the serverside (behind IIS)
    - and the OpenUI5-js-framework for responsive SPAs which work in all current Mobile- and Desktop-Browsers

    So no .NET for us (despite developing modern Apps).
    Also i agree that there are many other way to create modern web and mobile apps many of them very good alternatives to .NET, i mainly use .NET as its my job and its what i get paid to do. I am happy to use it, particularly more recent versions as the developer experience has gotten better over time. That being said i would equally be fine if my work turned round and said we are now using React / React Mobile go and learn that.

    I am not an evangelist just practical and practically speaking .NET is a perfectly good development tool i dont understand the hate. I dont hate VB6 it served me well i earned my living off it for many years it just came to a point to keep working i needed to learn other stuff so i did.

    Instant startup, instant debug, edit and continue... off the top of my head.

    I also like compiling to machine code, and the instant startup / small footprint of the resulting apps. Makes deployment almost as easy as a web app.

    I actually use VIM, VS, VS Code, VB6 and MS Access on the regular though. It sounds like you might not even have VB6 installed on your laptop. But please - come in here and tell us how inferior something is that you haven't used in 12 years.

    I do appreciate the enthusiasm. It's wonderful to be happy with your dev tools.
    No. I'm saying it adds nothing to the discussion, to point out that you can't think of something VB6 does better than VS, when you haven't used VB in over a decade. You're used to the flaws and have become dependent on the features of VS - so yes, it's going to be painful using something you've long ago lost expertise in
    You seem to be under the misapprehension that i dont use VB6 and haven't for some time. While it is true that use it less and less now, i work for a software house and we still have some legacy systems & controls written in VB6.

    Up until say 5 years ago i was working with VB6 as about 25% of my workload now gone down to about 2% but i did still did do some work last year using VB6. So yes i have VB6 installed and yes i have used it in anger to make a valid comparison between the IDE's.

    Many of your arguments have nothing to do with the IDE and all about the language or compilation of the program, i was specifically replying to dreammanor's post in which he said that the VB6 IDE was superior. (Which i think is nonsense and then provided reasoning as to why which you seem to have ignored)

    You mention debug / edit and continue however you have the same and actually probably a slightly superior debugging experience in the .Net IDE mainly because you can debug across projects much more easily then in VB6 and things like conditional breakpoints.

    So yes i have no problem coming in here replying to a post telling me how the VB6 IDE is somehow superior and providing examples as to how it is not. If you think i am wrong thats fine provide examples as to why and argue it out.
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  39. #199
    Superbly Moderated NeedSomeAnswers's Avatar
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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    +++ double post +++
    Please Mark your Thread "Resolved", if the query is solved & Rate those who have helped you



  40. #200
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    Re: No troll. What are the (legitimate) reasons people are still using VB6 ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Carlos Rocha View Post
    Enormous and useless
    That's my cue to ignore anything you have to say.

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