Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

[wes4dbt]

Last week was an awesome race and Hamilton won.

Any race where there is differing strategy, an uncertain outcome in the closing laps, and where the top finishing places don't match their starting positions (in other words, not a "carousel" "race" up front) make it an awesome race. Not dependent on who does (or doesn't) win.

I was just joking around about the dominance of Mercedes but if you want to talk about what makes an awesome race. OK. The last two F1 races were interesting at best to me. About 5 minutes of excitement in the first race at the end. Todays race was interesting because of the strategy call. If F1 is your favorite form of racing, maybe they would qualify as above average be cause it wasn't a carousel. To be honest though, the only thing I find awesome about F1 racing is the cars. The actual competition between the front runners and who going to win, isn't very exciting usually. It's not the drivers fault, they're great drivers. I enjoy watching F1 because I love racing. I'm glad you really enjoyed the races, it just seems we differ on what makes an awesome race.

My favorite racing is Nascar, then Indy car racing would be next. A Nascar race at Daytona or Talladega can have 50 lead changes, 10 pit stops with 30 cars on pit lane at the same time. Watched the Michigan races this weekend and they were fairly boring because Kevin Harvick was dominate but there was probably still 10 different leaders. And the margin of victory was still small.

So like beauty, I guess an awesome race is in the eye of the beholder.

[OptionBase1]

I'm a Nascar fan myself as well, for much much longer than I've been an F1 fan. Mostly because I never had consistent access to watch F1 races on TV until the past several years.

To me, an "awesome" F1 race is, of course, relative to F1. I have much different expectations going in to an F1 race than I do a Nascar race or an Indycar race. The fact that they don't have to fuel F1 cars mid-race is a big downer to me. The fact that in F1 they can pit at any point, including immediately when under a Safety Car is a big downer to me. The fact that there are only 20 cars is a big downer to me. The fact that there are fewer potentially winning cars per race than in a Nascar or Indycar race is a big downer to me. I know all that going in.

Just because an awesome burger can't compare to steak doesn't mean it's not an awesome burger.

[wes4dbt]

Just because an awesome burger can't compare to steak doesn't mean it's not an awesome burger.

lol, Those F1 burgers are awfully expensive.

[si_the_geek]

It was a good race with lots of good points, but certainly not in my top 30 or so races... thankfully with the new rules coming (now 2022) there should be much closer racing regularly from then on, and a good driver (or good strategy call) should be able to make the difference more easily.

The current period of rules (for over 10 years now) has seen lower quality racing, but with Ross Brawn etc now designing the rules with the aim of making it closer, things should be back somewhere around their best. There wont be massive amounts of lead changes, but there should be the possibility of long-running battles rather than the current pass-and-go style.

[wes4dbt]

Been hearing about the new package is coming for years, and now they put it off for another year. lol

Be interesting to see what affects it has on the racing. Maybe the areo effects of the car in front won't be so severe, But open wheel cars and the types of tracks they run on don't lend themselves to a lot of passing. Even the stock cars now a days have a hard time overcoming the areo effects from the car in front on super speedways but most tracks are wide enough for multiple grooves.

I'll continue to watch F1 because to me even if there's no surprises in the race it is still better than anything else on TV. Plus the sound of the cars is great to listen to as you nap in the afternoon.

[ChrisE]

The current period of rules (for over 10 years now) has seen lower quality racing, but with Ross Brawn etc now designing the rules with the aim of making it closer, things should be back somewhere around their best. There wont be massive amounts of lead changes, but there should be the possibility of long-running battles rather than the current pass-and-go style.

I hope with the new rules we won't see a Team dominating the F1 over years,
I think that a change is long overdue.

Well if somebody can change that it will be Ross, he know's what he's doing

[si_the_geek]

Been hearing about the new package is coming for years, and now they put it off for another year. lol

It is disappointing, but as they were all designing/building medical equipment for the pandemic, I'll forgive them!

Maybe the areo effects of the car in front won't be so severe,

If I remember correctly, the new cars will only have about 20% of the current effect on the following car.

Ross and his team have made various test cars and checked in the wind-tunnel to come up with the new rules.

But open wheel cars and the types of tracks they run on don't lend themselves to a lot of passing.

Agreed, but hopefully we can have a situation of ongoing battles, perhaps even better than we've seen before (as many of the new rules make the cars more equal).

I hope with the new rules we won't see a Team dominating the F1 over years,

With the cars being more equal it should be far less likely, but only time will tell.

Well if somebody can change that it will be Ross, he know's what he's doing

Agreed, the interviews etc I've seen from him make it look very well thought out.

[kragen2179]

Was really glad to see Mercedes struggling with the heat at Silverstone, gives us some hope that it won't just be a one horse race. Wonder if it will be hot enough in spain for Max to be the thorn in their side again?

[si_the_geek]

The mixture of softer tyres and higher tyre pressure helped, and so did the heat... apparently the tyres will have a similar situation this weekend, so it could be good if the weather is right too.

I do suspect however that with all the technology and determination that Mercedes have, they will have improved the issues since the last race. Hopefully they'll still be in a position that Red Bull (or maybe someone else) can give them a good fight.

[kragen2179]

I don't think they can really make that much of a difference in one week. Its all down to the downforce that the cars produce so they can stick to the corners. That downforce puts load into the tyres and causes them to wear faster.

With such little time between races and with the limitations on testing plus covid they will unlikely have any new parts for the weekend.

Which means (if Pirelli force softer tyres and its hot in spain) the only way for Mercedes to reduce tyre wear is tune out some more downforce and hope they're still faster than everyone else.

Look at the difference in lap times between the two Silverstone races. Softer tyres are supposed to be faster but everyone was slower

[si_the_geek]

Aero is certainly a major factor, but there are various other things under the hood they can change too (like suspension settings) that might help them. They will all probably have an effect on speed tho, so it does help us in terms of a better race.

Look at the difference in lap times between the two Silverstone races. Softer tyres are supposed to be faster but everyone was slower

I suspect that was probably due to the change in tyre pressures, but I could well be wrong!

[wes4dbt]

Well if you guys want to check out something fun, watch the Nascar Cup series on Sunday. They are going to be racing on the Daytona Road course, which is something they've never done before. Anytime they go to a new track, especially a road course, it's fun to watch. All you F1 fans should get a kick out of 38 stock cars plowing around a road course track they've never been on. Come to think about it, they haven't been having any practice before races so this will be completely new. Will be Sunday 3:00pm east coast time on NBC. Don't know if you get NBC in Europe, probably will be replayed on NBCSN later. There is a streaming option but I think that costs. I'm not suggesting anyone pay to watch. I'm looking forward to it.

[OptionBase1]

Qualifying was pretty much the same as past weeks. Nice to see Albon up in 6th, hopefully he can pass Racing Point and finish in the top 4.

The commentators seem to think that the top 10 teams are all going to try to stretch their softs 20 laps or so and then pit for mediums, making it a 1 stop race. That seems quite optimistic. I'm kind of hoping Red Bull has a plan of going all-out on the softs from the start, pitting around lap 10-12 for mediums, planning a two-stop for mediums both times and just driving the tread off the tires each stint. Gotta do something different than Mercedes as far as strategy is concerned to beat them.

[ChrisE]

yeah Albon did a good Job this time, but Vettel....
Vettel seems to have lost his ability to get the right setup, he is just
to far away from Leclerc

I think it's gonna be a Mercedes Win 1 and 2 again in Spain.

[wes4dbt]

They should be 1 ,2. They have .7 advantage over Max but you never know. Hope something happens to make it interesting. Not really a big difference between Leclerc and Vettel, 9th and 11th. Ferrari has really dropped this year. Must be hard for Leclerc, gets picked by a premiere team and then after one year they tank.

[wes4dbt]

Nothing to surprising happened. Thought Bottas would pass Max but never happened. Leclerc didn't score any point, not sure what happened I was watching the race with my eyes closed at that point. lol Sounded like he was battling someone and lost. Vettel scored points. I think there's a good possibility that someone might take 4th place in the championship away from Leclerc.

Well, I looking forward to next weekend. The Indy 500, 231mph lap speed. Should be fun to watch.

[OptionBase1]

Nothing to surprising happened. Thought Bottas would pass Max but never happened. Leclerc didn't score any point, not sure what happened I was watching the race with my eyes closed at that point. lol Sounded like he was battling someone and lost. Vettel scored points. I think there's a good possibility that someone might take 4th place in the championship away from Leclerc.

Well, I looking forward to next weekend. The Indy 500, 231mph lap speed. Should be fun to watch.

Leclerc had a massive mechanical failure in the middle of a turn (at low speed), and his car spun. He was able to get it going again to get back to the pits and retired.

Vettel hanging on for 7th place on a one stop was exciting. I completely agree with him being PO'd at his team about the strategy indecisiveness regarding doing a second stop or not.

I also completely agree with Verstappen being PO'd at his team for playing "watch Mercedes" instead of doing what was best for their own car.

Red Bull completely pooched the strategy for Albon. First, they pitted him way too early and put him in horrible traffic. Second, they put him on hard tires. I caught Practice 2 and a bit of Practices 1 and 3 and all of the discussion of the hard tires centered around how terrible they were. Now, I know Albon started on softs and had only 1 new set of mediums available, so they couldn't put new mediums on for both pit stops. But they would have been better off having him stay out a couple more laps, going mediums on the first stop, stretching them a bit, and then going softs on the final stop. Also, him not having 2 new sets of mediums available for the race is also entirely on the team, and not him obviously. Everyone has the same amount of tires available for the weekend, so they shouldn't have had him use up his mediums during practice/qualifying.

So, his struggles yesterday were like 99% terrible team strategy both for the race itself and for tire management for the weekend as a whole.

[OptionBase1]

Indy 500 tomorrow should be exciting. I hope Alonso is in contention for the win at the end. Rooting for Marco, Alonso, Ed Carpenter, or Helio to get the win. Biggest hope is for a clean safe race.

[ChrisE]

what another disaster for Ferrari at the 2020 Race in Spa
just as well they all wear red, it matches the in there faces

[wes4dbt]

what another disaster for Ferrari at the 2020 Race in Spa
just as well they all wear red, it matches the in there faces

That's funny. I like it. Well if we can just ignore Lewis, Bottas and Max there is some really good close racing going on.

[ChrisE]

That's funny. I like it. Well if we can just ignore Lewis, Bottas and Max there is some really good close racing going on.

I think that Max will win the Race, Red Bull is usually better in the Race than in the qualifying

[OptionBase1]

Rumor is Carlos Sainz has hired a group of attorneys to see if he can get his 2021 contract with Ferrari voided. Kidding, but man, he must be feeling pretty rough right now. Basically leaving a team getting their crap together for a team with skidmarks in the driver's seats each week.

I have to admit, since the top three positions never changed hands, part of my rooting was for Ferrari to score 0 points today, so I was pleased with that outcome. Nice to see Renault pull off a 4-5 finish. Albon looked ok. The team kind of left him out to dry by putting him on Medium tires so early. Had they put him on hards, he almost certainly would have finished 5th.

[wes4dbt]

Yeah, I thought that was a strange call to put Albon on mediums. I also thought leaving Perez out on softs didn't make any sense.

[OptionBase1]

Should be some good Grosjean vs. Vettel action tomorrow...

The battle for the third podium position should be interesting. Basically, the entire midpack should be some great action, strategy, and frustration tomorrow. I hope Red Bull gives Albon some A+ strategy calls tomorrow instead of the D- strategy the last couple races.

[wes4dbt]

Should be some good Grosjean vs. Vettel action tomorrow...

lmao

[OptionBase1]

Under red flag, Hamilton penalty for pitting when pit lane was closed was just announced. Holy cow, the second half of the race should be pure chaos.

When they said before the race that this could be the fastest race (in terms of time to complete) in F1 history, I said to myself, don't count on it.

[OptionBase1]

Wow, what a race!

[Arnoutdv]

What a race, wow!

The penalty for Hamilton also gave him the chance to show what a great driver he is.
Bottas, hmmm
Ferarri is laughable .
Red Bell, something seriously wrong with the cars

[OptionBase1]

To me, the Hamilton penalty ended up showing how poorly Mercedes performs in traffic. Albon had a damaged car and it still took several laps for Hamilton to pass him once he caught up to him, and only then that was because Albon went off track and had to give up the position. Yes, Hamilton passed many cars by the end, but none were gimme's.

In the end, he was something like 23 seconds behind the leader after being 30 seconds behind after taking the penalty. So, a net gain of 7 seconds in the final 25 laps with "top top" tier gear on the leader.

[si_the_geek]

Well that was a lovely race with lots of action all over the place, even the polystyrene blocks had some excitement!

It was great to see that most people there (no matter which team) cheered the new race winner


In a Mercedes dominated era (with Red Bull next best), as a McLaren fan why am I feeling disappointed with finishing 2nd and 4th?

Admittedly in the first couple of laps it did look like 2nd was likely for genuine reasons, and the bad Merc pit call for Lewis did make it seem like a win was likely... ah well, hopefully there will be more excitement for the team in the next few races!

To me, the Hamilton penalty ended up showing how poorly Mercedes performs in traffic. Albon had a damaged car and it still took several laps for Hamilton to pass him once he caught up to him, and only then that was because Albon went off track and had to give up the position. Yes, Hamilton passed many cars by the end, but none were gimme's.

In the end, he was something like 23 seconds behind the leader after being 30 seconds behind after taking the penalty. So, a net gain of 7 seconds in the final 25 laps with "top top" tier gear on the leader.

The Merc's have always been poor in traffic, so it wasn't too surprising that he could "only" get up to 7th from 16th.

It was 17.2s behind at the end apparently, so that is a gain of about 13s (roughly 0.5s per lap), which is quite impressive given that he was having some tough battles on the way.

The team should never have put him in that position tho (and the FIA should have put the "pits closed" boards next to the pit entry, rather than just on the other side of the track), so there were some rather disappointed people there.

[wes4dbt]

Think there were a lot more happy people than disappointed people. It's fun when the dominate cars have problems. Enjoy it when you can. lol

I was impressed by Gasly. Thought Sainz would catch him easily. I never did hear what was wrong with Bottas, except possible heat issues. Lewis was able to pass and finished just two spots behind, but Bottas looked very average.

It was fun, didn't fall asleep.

[OptionBase1]

The question marks I have from the race:

Why did Max retire? Seems to be blamed on some sort of engine issue from what I've read, but during the race it was never really talked about.

Why did Bottas not dominate post red flag with tier 2.0 teams in front of him? On lap 1 when he sank like a stone he complained on the radio of a puncture, but the team confirmed his pressures were fine. Makes me wonder if he had some sort of mechanical issue from the get go. He did make very slight contact on the opening lap to I believe the front wing area, but didn't look like anything broke or even really moved.

The big question - why did Kevin Magnussen slam on the brakes and stop in the grass when he could have easily coasted into the pit lanes? He totally screwed up the outcome of the race by doing that and bringing out the Safety Car. He was literally coming up the pit entry lane at more than enough speed to make it into the pits. Granted, he did turn the race from a likely Hamilton dominated snooze-fest to by far the best race of the year, but still, very dumb move on his part.

[OptionBase1]

Well that was a lovely race with lots of action all over the place, even the polystyrene blocks had some excitement!

It was great to see that most people there (no matter which team) cheered the new race winner


In a Mercedes dominated era (with Red Bull next best), as a McLaren fan why am I feeling disappointed with finishing 2nd and 4th?

Admittedly in the first couple of laps it did look like 2nd was likely for genuine reasons, and the bad Merc pit call for Lewis did make it seem like a win was likely... ah well, hopefully there will be more excitement for the team in the next few races!

The Merc's have always been poor in traffic, so it wasn't too surprising that he could "only" get up to 7th from 16th.

It was 17.2s behind at the end apparently, so that is a gain of about 13s (roughly 0.5s per lap), which is quite impressive given that he was having some tough battles on the way.

The team should never have put him in that position tho (and the FIA should have put the "pits closed" boards next to the pit entry, rather than just on the other side of the track), so there were some rather disappointed people there.

If half the field had pitted, then I think the argument of confusion over pit closed status would have held more water. Since the obvious play in F1 is to insta-pit immediately during a safety car if you are in a pit window, the fact that only two drivers pitted tells me that the other teams/drivers were well aware the pits were closed, therefore Mercedes/Hamilton should have known as well. No sympathy from me whatsoever on that front.

Hamilton's drive back was impressive, for sure. It was fun to see how high he could go. That being said, I think when he caught Albon he was something like 16 or so seconds behind the leader, so from that point forward he basically kept pace with Gasly while navigating traffic.

Edit: One other thing, Hamilton confronting the officials that gave him the penalty during the red flag was really really low class IMO. Especially afterward when he said he took 100% of the responsibility for the mistake. So I guess he just wanted to thank the officials in person for doing the right thing giving him a penalty.

[si_the_geek]

Max's issue was "power unit", but that's all I found out with all the beeping when he talked - he wasn't a happy chap!

Bottas apparently had damage from the first lap, which made his car much slower. Even when Lewis has a bad day, he can't get a break.

It's fun when the dominate cars have problems.

It is, and with any luck the 2022 rules will make this kind of race much more frequent, as there is far less likely to be domination.

The big question - why did Kevin Magnussen slam on the brakes and stop in the grass when he could have easily coasted into the pit lanes?

I'm not aware in this case, but for similar situations in the past there have been mechanical issues that mean the car needs to be stopped as soon as possible, to minimise further damage (either because the parts need to be re-used, or to investigate why they failed).

If half the field had pitted, then I think the argument of confusion over pit closed status would have held more water.

The team messed up (they should have known and told him to stay out), and the FIA didn't set things up well enough (the signs were in poor positions, and didn't even get shown on the initial video of approaching and entering the pits), and Lewis didn't pay enough attention - but being Lewis, he took the blame (because it was at least partly his fault).

Edit: One other thing, Hamilton confronting the officials that gave him the penalty during the red flag was really really low class IMO.

I haven't heard about that, but it is standard for drivers to chat to the officials about penalties - if nothing else to get clarification of what is or isn't allowed next time.

[OptionBase1]

I haven't heard about that, but it is standard for drivers to chat to the officials about penalties - if nothing else to get clarification of what is or isn't allowed next time.

During the race, face to face? I hate to sound like Joe Biden, but c'mon man! No way is that standard. I doubt you could find 3 other examples from the last 30 years of F1 of drivers still in the race leaving their cars and the pit area during a red flag to confront officials face to face about a penalty they were issued. That's spoiled brat stuff, plain and simple. This wasn't after the race (maybe what you are referring to as being standard), this was in the middle of the race. Red flag or not, the race was still in progress. The other driver that was penalized (Giovinazzi) didn't seem to think a field trip was needed to understand what took place, and he was about to restart in 4th place or so, which was huge for him, so he had even more incentive to get clarification on what the situation was.

If, during an extended delay of game due to a player's injury, Tom Brady went up to the booth where replay reviews are done and insisted they show him all the angles of some play he thought they called wrong, people would go crazy, and rightly so. Play on, man. Play on.

[wes4dbt]

I didn't see that incident because I always record the race and I just fast forwarded through the red flag. But I find it strange that F1 would even let a driver talk to the officials during the race. Seems like that could corrupt the process.

I also didn't like the fact it took another 10 -15 minutes (didn't actually measure) after the Giovinazzi decision to make the Lewis decision. It wasn't a hard decision, it wasn't a subjective decision, there was clear video evidence. It had to be the same penalty as Gio's. It felt like they were trying to come up with a way not to penalize Lewis. That's just my bias against Lewis lol Glad they finally did the right thing.

[OptionBase1]

I didn't see that incident because I always record the race and I just fast forwarded through the red flag. But I find it strange that F1 would even let a driver talk to the officials during the race. Seems like that could corrupt the process.

I also didn't like the fact it took another 10 -15 minutes (didn't actually measure) after the Giovinazzi decision to make the Lewis decision. It wasn't a hard decision, it wasn't a subjective decision, there was clear video evidence. It had to be the same penalty as Gio's. It felt like they were trying to come up with a way not to penalize Lewis. That's just my bias against Lewis lol Glad they finally did the right thing.

I agree. And I forgot about the lengthy delay between the announcement of Giovinazzi's penalty vs. Hamilton's penalty. It could be argued that Giovinazzi's pitting was more blatantly "wrong", since by the time he had pitted, significantly more time had passed since Lewis had pitted, and therefore the pits had been closed for much longer, but still, it was the same infraction for both. It wasn't like the pits were closed right as Lewis was on his way in to the pits.

Just my opinions. I'm not a Lewis Hamilton hater. Lewis is going to win the championship, deservedly so, and he's going to break several more of Michael Schumacher's records this year. He's an amazingly talented driver, and proves it each race when his teammate in the same gear lags well behind him.

[si_the_geek]

The drivers do all kinds of things during red flags... my favourite was Kimi in a hot race, where he went to get his shorts on then grab an ice-cream.

I don't know the timelines of what happened on this occasion, but in a video from before the red flag Lewis was clearly unsure of what had happened, so it is likely that he wanted to watch the video to find out what he should have done - so if the same issue happened later in the race, he'd be able to avoid making the same mistake. I'm only guessing, but that is the kind of thing he does after the race, so it would make sense to do it during a red flag.

I don't know why the officials took a while to decide on Lewis (from the longer video we saw later on, it was clear that he had passed the marker boards with the sign on), but it is likely they were dealing with other issues, because the officials do tend to have lots of things to decide on - most of which we don't find out about, because they are fairly easily dismissed.

[OptionBase1]

I don't know what happened, but if Lewis did it then it was standard and A-OK in my book.

Noted.

[si_the_geek]

That's not how I feel about him (he does do bad things sometimes), but you've clearly got a strong opinion on this particular situation - and as you are much more aware of what happened than me, you are entitled to your opinion.