Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

[wes4dbt]

To bad about Sainz. He'll probably be back by the next race.

Was a little surprised how far back Mercedes qualified. Probably wont be competitive for the race win.

[OptionBase1]

Bearman's drive was pretty much the only thing exciting to watch today, outside of Magnussen slowing down 1/3 of the field to build the gap for Hulkenberg to be able to pit and retain his position.

Perez is looking really solid so far. Honestly, if he can be as consistent as he has been so far for the rest of the season, then Red Bull should keep him on another year for sure.

[wes4dbt]

That was pretty cool of Mag to pull that off. Did you notice that after Hulk pitted Mag was able to gap the cars behind him. That gives me a little hope for HAAS, just a little. lol

[OptionBase1]

That was pretty cool of Mag to pull that off. Did you notice that after Hulk pitted Mag was able to gap the cars behind him. That gives me a little hope for HAAS, just a little. lol

Yeah, he gassed it once Hulk pitted.

Haas seems best poised to score points whenever one of the top 5 teams has an issue. Outside of that, though, it seems like it is:

Red Bull - Clear #1
Ferarri - Fairly clear #2
Mercedes/McLaren/Fernando Alonso - fairly close for 3/4/4.5

Small gap

Lance Stroll - 5

Huge gap

Haas/Williams - close for 6/7
Alpine/RB/The cool looking green car team formerly known as Alfa Romeo - close for 8/9/10

So, 2024 seems like a rehash of 2023. Barring unforeseen circumstances, the championship will be Max/Red Bull, but there will be some good fighting for places 3-9 in the driver's championship, and places 2, 3, 4, and maybe 5 in the constructor's championship, and then maybe some good fighting amongst the bottom 10 drivers and the bottom 5 teams for 11tth and 12th place driver, and 6th and 7th place constructor.

[Shaggy Hiker]

I don't follow racing, but I've always found this thread pretty interesting. So, here's a question for you: What do you get for being the 11th or 12th place driver or 6th or 7th place constructor? Being bottom of the heap in most leagues seems to give you some bonus (such as a higher draft choice) going into the next year. Is there anything like that in racing?

[OptionBase1]

I don't follow racing, but I've always found this thread pretty interesting. So, here's a question for you: What do you get for being the 11th or 12th place driver or 6th or 7th place constructor? Being bottom of the heap in most leagues seems to give you some bonus (such as a higher draft choice) going into the next year. Is there anything like that in racing?

11th or 12th place driver - bragging rights that they weren't the 13th+ place driver. Best of the rest of the rest.

For the constructor's championship, the final season payouts are determined by position. Last year there was something like 12 million dollars on the line for a team that finished something like 7th instead of 8th.

Basically, for us fans, tracking the low rankings like that is looking for at least something to stay interested in the races.

[wes4dbt]

Yeah, here are the pay outs https://us.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1...rned/10553552/

Also, a lot of the time this is where you get a chance to show your skills and maybe get to chance to drive for one of the top teams. A low team may have ties to one of the top, I believe HAAS has ties to Ferrari.

Definitely no "bonus" for finishing last.

[techgnome]

Here's how I see it playing out - with all the action that will be happening in the upcoming silly season, the first half of this season will see drivers playing it safe, making sure to not take themselves out. Then in the back half, they start getting aggressive as they try to shine up their skills and resume to land a seat for 2025 ... We already know where Max and Lewis are going to land ... with Lewis heading to Ferrari, then someone there is out, plus who is going to take Lewis's spot? Oct, Nov, Dec this year is going to be interesting with a number of seats changing.


-tg

[OptionBase1]

I could see Max to Mercedes if things go South at Red Bull (Helmut Marko or Christian Horner or both leaving the team).

Alonso to Mercedes would be a good stop-gap for Mercedes if they don't have a long-term preferred driver ready to do.

Carlos Sainz to Mercedes would be good for Mercedes for the same reasons as Alonso, although he's not as talented as Alonso.

If Red Bull drops Perez, he would also be good for Mercedes for the same reasons as Alonso or Sainz, a year (maybe 2?) of stability in their second car.

Lando to Mercedes would be a good move for Lando and Mercedes, but he just signed a lengthy extension at McLaren.

Oscar Piastri to Mercedes would be a good move in the short and long term for Mercedes, no idea of his current contract situation.

Outside of those drivers, I can't think of any current F1 driver on another team who has outperformed their car to the point of showing that they deserve a Mercedes seat.

[techgnome]

So it looks like hte grid on Sunday will be only 19 deep as Albon wrecked his ride and they're giving Sargeant's ride to him. Sucks to be Logan, but them's the breaks I guess. I haven't seen the replay yet (will get to it when I get off work later). Just caught the headline and the tl;dr of the results


-=tg

[OptionBase1]

So it looks like hte grid on Sunday will be only 19 deep as Albon wrecked his ride and they're giving Sargeant's ride to him. Sucks to be Logan, but them's the breaks I guess. I haven't seen the replay yet (will get to it when I get off work later). Just caught the headline and the tl;dr of the results


-=tg

I saw that too. Albon is clearly the better driver than Logan, but it still sucks for Logan.

Reminder for everyone that the race is late Saturday night / early Sunday morning (depending on your time zone).

[techgnome]

I saw that too. Albon is clearly the better driver than Logan, but it still sucks for Logan.

Reminder for everyone that the race is late Saturday night / early Sunday morning (depending on your time zone).

Yeah it's 1am Sunday here east coast US... oh... no... midnight... glad I checked on that...

-tg

[wes4dbt]

I guess F1 is different than Nascar. They have a backup car that can be ready fairly quickly.

I rarely watch the race live, always record them. The cool thing about F1 is for some reason they are usually commercial free.

[OptionBase1]

I guess F1 is different than Nascar. They have a backup car that can be ready fairly quickly.

I rarely watch the race live, always record them. The cool thing about F1 is for some reason they are usually commercial free.

I think it is normal for F1 teams to bring 3 cars to each race. I didn't see an explanation as to why Williams only brought 2. I would guess cost of transporting an extra car to Australia may have been a factor.

[Shaggy Hiker]

The cool thing about F1 is for some reason they are usually commercial free.

Unless you count the cars themselves.

[wes4dbt]

Unless you count the cars themselves.

Not really a commercial. But there is lots of advertising.

I'd say NASCAR is even worse. They're rolling billboards. It's funny when they interview the drivers, "Yeah, my Exxon, Interstate,Shell, Pennzoil, Coca Cola, Home Depot car was really fast today"

[OptionBase1]

not really a commercial. But there is lots of advertising.

I'd say nascar is even worse. They're rolling billboards. It's funny when they interview the drivers, "yeah, my exxon, interstate,shell, pennzoil, coca cola, home depot car was as fast as xfinity 10g today..."

fyp.

[wes4dbt]

That's funny

[OptionBase1]

Well, that race certainly was interesting. I guess Max needs a DNF once in a while to spice things up.

The ending was sure scary. The FIA needs to look at how they handle a last lap incident like that. There should have been at minimum an immediate VSC and 1000 yellow flags waving ahead of George's tipped over car. The first few cars on scene seemed ill prepared for what they were encountering.

[wes4dbt]

Yeah, it was nice to see that the Red Bull car isn't 100% bulletproof. It was starting to fill that way.

Sainz did an excellent job. Glad for him, he's had some hard knocks this year. Mercedes was off, so was Perez. Norris and Piastri look good. And hey because of the carnage HAAS got 9th and 10th. Life is good. lol

[OptionBase1]

After the opening lap Red Flag I didn't even try to stay awake to watch the rest of the race. I caught a few laps here and there, but it seemed like very little was happening overall.

Red Bull continues to look unbeatable. That doesn't seem to be in danger of changing any time soon.

[wes4dbt]

There was more passing than usual because of the various tire strategies. But 1st and 2nd was never in doubt. Nice to see them have to pit more than once.

You got to get a video recorder. lol

[OptionBase1]

There was more passing than usual because of the various tire strategies. But 1st and 2nd was never in doubt. Nice to see them have to pit more than once.

You got to get a video recorder. lol

I caught the evening replay on ESPN and watched the whole thing. There was more action than I had thought as you said.

Daniel's best racing days seem pretty far in the rear view mirror. I wonder if he'll keep his seat the whole season at his current form.

[OptionBase1]

Hamilton looked strong in the Sprint race, but then pooched it in qualifying for the real race! I think he's already mentally checked out of his Mercedes seat. Talk of Max going to Mercedes to replace Lewis is insane...why would Max leave the dominant car for arguably the 4th or 5th best car?

Red Bull finishing 1, 3 in the Sprint, and starting 1, 2 in the main event tomorrow. I would imagine the race for the win won't be in doubt, but maybe the fight for the rest of the podium/points positions will be good.

2:00AM race Central Time. I think I'll just catch the highlights.

[wes4dbt]

Yeah I don't see why Max would go anywhere, doesn't make sense.

I try to look forward to the races but it's getting harder. Unless Red Bull make has a major mistake/failure it'll be a RB 1 and 2. Not really sure what to expect from the McLarens, they're hard to read. Mercedes performance really has dropped off, think it was just the wet track that made Lewis look good in the sprint.

[Shaggy Hiker]

People tend to value themselves highly, especially if they are winning. Just from reading this thread, I get the impression that a good driver in an excellent car will always beat a good driver in a mediocre car (barring accident), but does the good driver KNOW that? If not, then they may believe their success will follow wherever they go, in which case money is the key.

[OptionBase1]

I've been babysitting an "about to cease working, but needs to hang on for just a few more days" boiler water circulation pump in the boiler room of the building I live in. By happenstance, the pump started squealing, indicating that it needed to be oiled _again_, at 10 minutes past 2 this morning.

So, once that was done, I settled in and watched the race from lap 3 or so, up until probably around lap 40. The Safety Cars certainly shook things up mid-race. The Max win wasn't really in doubt, but it did add some uncertainty, and the rest of the points positions were shuffling around a bit too, which made it interesting.

What odds would anyone give that Lewis is dumped by Mercedes before the end of the season? 20:1? 100:1? 1000:1? He's obviously very unhappy with the car, and Mercedes has zero incentive to try to appease him any longer.

[wes4dbt]

People tend to value themselves highly, especially if they are winning. Just from reading this thread, I get the impression that a good driver in an excellent car will always beat a good driver in a mediocre car (barring accident), but does the good driver KNOW that? If not, then they may believe their success will follow wherever they go, in which case money is the key.

I'd say Max is an exceptional driver. At the F1 level they're all good drivers. But Max's teammate has basically the same car but consistently finishes 20 seconds behind him. Maybe someone could temp him with money but he's already getting $55 million a year. He chased Hamilton for several years when Mercedes had the dominant car, I think he realizes the value of the car.

I wish he would change teams, it would make the racing a lot more interesting.

[Shaggy Hiker]

Pffft. How can he live on such a meagre sum?

[wes4dbt]

Pffft. How can he live on such a meagre sum?

He gets to drive te company car. That helps save money.

[OptionBase1]

My take on who the better driver is.

Lewis is old. Max is the better driver now than Lewis, hands down. Max now vs. Lewis 10 years ago, put in the same cars? No idea.

But then consider this. Nico Rosberg beat Lewis for the driver's championship in the second Mercedes. Is there any talk of Nico being the best ever? Look at how many races Bottas won in the second Mercedes. Is there any talk of Bottas being in the list of elite F1 drivers?

How many times has Max been beaten by his teammate in a non-incident race for Max? I would say his dominance vs. team mate record is higher than Hamilton's.

Frankly, I don't think either of them are the best F1 driver ever. Max would have to keep racing for many more years to be in contention. Lewis is clearly the most successful, and Max could eventually be the most successful if he chooses to race long enough.

[Shaggy Hiker]

He gets to drive te company car. That helps save money.

HA! Good point.

[OptionBase1]

Adrian Newey (Chief Technical Officer) is leaving Red Bull.

Christian Horner and Dr. Helmut Marko have also been in the rumormill of leaving Red Bull.

Rumors of Mercedes offering Max $Texas to leave Red Bull and come to their team.

How crazy would it be if in a year or two none of those 4 people are still at Red Bull?

[OptionBase1]

Not gonna lie, I got a little misty eyed for Lando winning his first ever F1 race. He certainly deserved to finally win one. Tough break for Piastri, though, otherwise it would have been an even better day for McLaren.

Even from the start, Max didn't look great. He wasn't pulling away at all like he has been normally doing in the past couple years.

Otherwise, Mercedes looked a tiny bit better than they had been lately, and Aston Martin looked a bit worse.

I feel bad for Logan Sargeant, but I think Williams would be best off getting someone else in that seat to start getting them experience. Logan just can't seem to avoid incidents.

[wes4dbt]

Nice to see someone else win besides Max and it's cool it was a first time winner.

I think the stewards were still upset with Mags from the sprint. But it doesn't seem to be consistently a penalty when there's contact in the corners. Mags front tire was just behind Sargent's front tie and Sargent ran into him. A lot like the Sainz/Piastri collision. These calls seems strange to me, I'm use to NASCAR. lol

[Zvoni]

I think it is normal for F1 teams to bring 3 cars to each race. I didn't see an explanation as to why Williams only brought 2. I would guess cost of transporting an extra car to Australia may have been a factor.

Right, haven't posted in this thread in a long time.

What you are talking about is the so called T-Car ("Training-Car").
Up until Season 2007 (included) each Team was allowed one spare T-Car additionally to the 2 "regular" Cars.
In case of an accident, the driver could switch cars, provided his starting number to be on the car

From Season 2008, they changed the rules, mainly to stop the "Budget-Explosion" which disadvantaged the smaller teams.
Rumor has it, that Ferrari had a Budget of 500M USD per Year in their M. Schumacher Hey-Days!

From 2008:
Each driver has a total of 5 Engines for the whole season, and a T-Car would circumvent that regulation.
Hence: T-Cars not allowed anymore (officially!)
Despite that, there are still Teams bringing a T-Car as a backup, but usually without Engine!
In case of an accident, they install the next engine (if the original is too damaged) in the T-Car, "graciously" accept the move-back of 10 positions on the Grid (Change of engine during a race-weekend), and off they go.

That said: I think the last race i actually watched on TV was in the days, when M. Schumacher came back to Mercedes.
I think that was before L. Hamilton?

Because, frankly, F1 is not racing anymore.

I still remember the "duels" between M. Schumacher and M. Hakkinen, or MS against Damon Hill (the infamous race in Adelaide? Or was it Melbourne?),
or the infamous races in Belgium (rain and mass-accident after first corner), or the "three-wheeled Ferrari", or the Monaco-Race in the rain with only 6 drivers finishing (I think it was O. Panis who won)

Nowadays, F1 is for me like "The Team with the best car wins" (Exceptions not withstanding of course)

I think the really last "exciting" season was the one with Ross Brawn being the Boss of the precursor what later became Mercedes.
Jenson Button won the Championship i think?

[wes4dbt]

I think the really last "exciting" season was the one with Ross Brawn being the Boss of the precursor what later became Mercedes.

Then you missed 2021. First year Max won the championship. It came down to the last race and a last lap restart with Max and Lewis battling at the front.

Definitely no excitement about the championship since then. Total domination by Max and Reb Bull.

[OptionBase1]

Qualifying in 12 hours or so. Red Bull looks vulnerable. Quali order is basically the race at Monte Carlo, so it should be interesting. I could see Red Bull starting something like 9th and 11th Sunday.

[wes4dbt]

Qualifying in 12 hours or so. Red Bull looks vulnerable. Quali order is basically the race at Monte Carlo, so it should be interesting. I could see Red Bull starting something like 9th and 11th Sunday.

That would make things more interesting. Especially at this race, the most boring race of the year, no way to pass. But I've seen this before and then Max ends up on pole. Hope your right.

[OptionBase1]

Perez P18. Yikes!