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Thread: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

  1. #401
    PowerPoster Zvoni's Avatar
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    Quote Originally Posted by techgnome View Post
    They could have delayed it to the next day, but there's no guarantee that weather would have improved, plus as the commentators noted, there may have been an issue finding marshals sufficient for the event.

    -tg
    According to german news that wasn't possible, since the next race is next weekend in the Netherlands (yeah, practically you can spit from Spa to Zandvoort), so the problem would have been the logistics involved
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  2. #402
    PowerPoster Arnoutdv's Avatar
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    Don't forget about the TV revenues. I think it was a pure commercial decision.

  3. #403
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    Quote Originally Posted by Zvoni View Post
    According to german news that wasn't possible, since the next race is next weekend in the Netherlands (yeah, practically you can spit from Spa to Zandvoort), so the problem would have been the logistics involved
    Odd... they talked to a couple of team principles, and they said, yeah it would have been tight, but it would have been doable...

    Speaking of Zandvoort... I'm looking forward to it... it will be interesting to see how the banked curves factor into things.

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  4. #404
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    Wow, so they just give them half points and call it a race. What a rip off. lol

    Never knew that's how it works. Shows how much I know about F1. Can't say that I like it, as a fan or as a team. Think racing Monday if forecast was favorable or fit the race in one of the gaps between races would be possible. Wonder if the fans get there money back. Maybe half. lol

  5. #405
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    That race day was painful to watch... I'm glad I only saw the highlights.

    Thankfully the teams etc are getting together to try to change the rules so that it can't happen again. The governing body is also trying to sort out some sort of refund for the fans at the track, who were stuck in the rain for all that time... having been at a wet race myself (where the race happened), I can say that without even having a race to watch they should get a full refund for that day.

  6. #406
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    Yeah, I didn't realize it only took two laps to get half points. I know with Indy, they have to do 50% +1 laps to be declared an official race and have points issued. There's no half points.
    I wonder... I wonder if maybe they had done the formation and lap 1 under CS, then laps 2-5 under VSC -- that might have gotten things going fast enough that they could have gotten more water off the track, then they may have been able to get 5 laps of green and some racing in, before red flagging it when the rains picked back up. But it's all Monday morning driving, and we'll never know. Let's just hope for better weather next weekend.

    -tg
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  7. #407
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    The weather forecast for Sunday is 25C and sunny

  8. #408
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    Quote Originally Posted by si_the_geek View Post
    That race day was painful to watch... I'm glad I only saw the highlights.

    Thankfully the teams etc are getting together to try to change the rules so that it can't happen again. The governing body is also trying to sort out some sort of refund for the fans at the track, who were stuck in the rain for all that time... having been at a wet race myself (where the race happened), I can say that without even having a race to watch they should get a full refund for that day.
    Remember the "scandal"-race in Indianapolis how many years ago, where after the warm-up round, only 6 cars rolled to the starting line (those with Bridgestone-Tires. The Michelin-tired cars all withdrew due to rain)

    EDIT: The Michelin withdrawal wasn't due to rain. I stand corrected.
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  9. #409
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    The Indy scandal was bad, too much politics going on to allow the race to happen properly.

    The highlight of that race was somebody throwing beer in front of Schumi's car.

  10. #410
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    This would have been a better alternative...




    -tg
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  11. #411
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    I didn't know how they were going to setup the DRS zones but with the long straightaways I thought there would be overtake opportunities. Not many happened in the sprint. Hamilton staying in 5th all race was surprising.

    Want to see an exciting race but then again I'd like to see Max just pull away and not have to worry. Hard to have it both ways. lol

  12. #412
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    I didn't know how they were going to setup the DRS zones but with the long straightaways I thought there would be overtake opportunities. Not many happened in the sprint. Hamilton staying in 5th all race was surprising.

    Want to see an exciting race but then again I'd like to see Max just pull away and not have to worry. Hard to have it both ways. lol
    It's why i like to watch Monaco: Yeah, not a lot of opportunities to overtake, but Holy Smoke, when they crash.....
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  13. #413
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    Was it just me or was Hamilton's car just a rocket ship. I know Mercedes always has a little more power than Red Bull but it wasn't even close. That new power unit was amazing. Wouldn't surprise me to see him win the remaining races.

  14. #414
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    Quite a performance by Hamilton.
    First on the sprint race, starting as last and finishing as 5th, in only 24 laps.
    The Mercedes had a lot of overspeed this weekend and the skills of Hamilton completed the success.

  15. #415
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    That's the first race I've watched all season w/o skipping ahead any laps. The Hamilton passes Versstappen, Verstappen re-takes the lead on lap 57 though was fun to watch...
    Kept getting annoyed by the announcers who repeatedly kept saying that he was coming from the back of the grid to the front to lead... um... no... he came from 10th...
    But... does make me wonder what would have happened had it not been a sprint weekend... and he had started from the back, assuming he would have been DQ'd following review after Q3.

    And now with just three more rounds left, come the mathematical games of who needs to win what in front of who in order to take the championship home.

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  16. #416
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    Next race in Qatar on the 21st of November.
    5th December Saudi Arabia and the final race on the 12th of December in Abu Dhabi
    It would be epic if the for the last race they both have almost the same amount of points.

  17. #417
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    Well.... doing some napkin number crunching...
    Max has 332.5 pts, and Hamilton has 318.5 ...
    If Hamilton wins the next two and Max takes P2, that gives Hamilton an extra 50pts for a total of 368.5, and Max and other 40, for a total of 372.5 a difference of 4 pts going into the final race. That would make the final race the championship decider. Bottom line, Hamilton has to win all three races here on out to beat Max. If Max can win any two of the three, Or win one, place second in another, and then place better than Hamilton in the final race (should things go sideways) then he'd be the champion.

    -tg
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  18. #418
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    Things 'going sideways' can have a much more literal meaning in car racing than in most things.
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    I believe P2 is 18 points. But it does seem that's it's going to come down to the final race. First time I can remember racing in December. After that, for me, it's the long wait till Daytona. Thankfully we got football to help fill our Sundays.

  20. #420
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    I thought it was 25-20-18.... I'll have to look it up...
    For me it's a short wait as I follow Formula-E, and with the exit of the Merc team this coming season, there's going to be some shuffling around.

    -tg
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  21. #421
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    1: 25
    2: 18
    3: 15
    4: 12
    5: 10
    6: 8
    7: 6
    8: 4
    9: 2
    10: 1

  22. #422
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    So that makes it even closer:

    Max: 332.5 pts
    Hamilton: 318.5

    Hamilton wins the next 2 races, adding 50pts for a total of 368.5. Max takes second adding 36 to his total for 368.5 ...
    That would send the championship tied into the final race, meaning who ever finishes in the points in front of the other would take it.
    It's getting down to the wire... as it should be.


    -tg
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  23. #423
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    Did they actually hand out points for that so-called "race" in Belgium?
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  24. #424
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    Yeah it was quite odd.
    The race started behind the safety car and after several laps the race was cancelled/stopped.
    The winner (actually of the qualification) received 12.5 points, place 10 got 0.5 points

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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    Doesn't look good for Max. Ever since they put the new power unit in Hamiltons car it just has to much power for Max to keep up with. It also has a great driver, with a wing man supporting him. I think it's going to take a mistake or some type or mechanical failure for Max to win. I sure would like to see a different champion.

    Does anyone know if they are still going to the new car design in 2022?

  26. #426
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    I dunno... if they continue to have collisions like they did at the end of the Saudi race... anything could happen. On the other hand, with points being the way they are, all it takes is for one to finish in front of the other... in theory they could play it safe (HA!) But neither of them are probably capable of that and have this need to win. And given how the last few races have gone, at this point, anything is possible.

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  27. #427
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    Well maybe there is hope for Max. P1 for tomorrows race. I checked out practice 2 and Max was down .3 - .6. Hamilton seem to have a lot more speed, like the last 3 races, since that new power unit. I have actually watched qualifying yet so maybe something happened, I'll check it out later today.

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    Re: Max 1x World Champion ? You bet!

    Based on my past posts in this thread, you should see that I'm very much a Max and Red Bull fan, so keep that in mind.

    There needs to be a full review of all communications (radio, text, computer, and any other) at the end of the race. It seemed like no one knew what was going on, including Masi, and the plan was constantly changing. Lewis got hosed, partly because of strategy decisions by his team, but mostly because of wishy-washy decisions from race control.

    Perez retiring at the end makes literally no sense. It's the last lap ever for this equipment, he's in podium position, he might get second if he can also pass Lewis*. For God's sake, even if he has to limp around because of some supposed equipment failure, he'll finish in the points. The radio replay of them telling Perez he needed to retire had the sound of a very panicky person. Why the panic?

    *That's why I think there's shenanigans afoot. Bottas was lumbering around the tail end of the points positions all day. Imagine a scenario where, on the last lap, Lewis's tires are so worn that he gets passed by Max, Sergio, Sainz... Suddenly Red Bull can win the driver's championship AND the constructor's championship.

    All the money is in the constructor's championship. And money talks. To me, there's a non-zero chance that Perez was forced to retire to "let" Mercedes win the constructors championship in exchange for the last-minute decision to let the lapped cars between Max and Lewis pass the safety car and give them a 1-on-1 lap for the championship.

    I couldn't be happier for Max, but if there is ever anything even hinted at publicly that gives credence to my theory above, that will taint F1 for me forever.

  29. #429
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    We are the champions, we are the champions
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  30. #430
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    Re: Max 1x World Champion ? You bet!

    Well done Max, a worthy winner.

    Quote Originally Posted by OptionBase1 View Post
    Lewis got hosed, partly because of strategy decisions by his team, but mostly because of wishy-washy decisions from race control.
    The strategy decisions by his team all made sense... for example not pitting under the safety car was the right thing to do, because if Lewis pitted and Max stayed out (which he almost certainly would have - Lewis was faster, so doing the same as him wouldn't work) and the safety car period lasted for the rest of the race (it almost did, but the marshalls were fast enough to allow one lap), Max would have won by default.

    The decisions by race control were sensible given the circumstances, and both drivers have been on the bad side of that in recent races.

    Perez retiring at the end makes literally no sense. It's the last lap ever for this equipment, he's in podium position, he might get second if he can also pass Lewis*. For God's sake, even if he has to limp around because of some supposed equipment failure, he'll finish in the points.
    That does seem very odd, and hopefully we'll get clarification of why it happened.

    Based on the amount of hassle that was happening on the radio between the teams and the race director, I can't rule out your theory, but it would surprise me.

  31. #431
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    There is a God. At least a racing God. lol

    I'm happy for Max. I'm still confused how Lewis's car was so much faster than Red Bull after the power unit change 4 races ago. The change has been dramatic, I could understand some improvement but not that much. Even all that power couldn't overcome bad luck.

    Sure was entertaining.

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    Re: Hamilton 8x World Champion ? Not yet!!!

    "Suspected loss of oil and water pressure" is the reason given for the Perez retirement. So, the panicky message to Perez to pit and retire immediately could have been because they didn't want to risk him potentially leaking fluids on the track, causing an extension of the safety car, and the race ending without going back green. At least, I hope that is all there is to it.

  33. #433
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    Ahhh, I was just going to start a new thread about Verstappen's win, but this is already here.

    I've been an F1 fan for years, but the Mercedes dominance has made it almost boring. I am sooooo glad we've had some new blood rise to the top this year (to mix metaphors). Max seems like a genuinely nice guy.

    Watch his acceptance speech if you haven't already. He's a wonderful champion.

    I watch the races, but I'm still watching YouTube replays of things. I think this picture sums up the season. "If I have to, I'll go over you."

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  34. #434
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    It'll be interesting to see what the off-season brings. Hamilton snubs the awards ceremony ... I've been seeing reports about how Wolff and Hamilton are now "disillusioned" with F1 and now Hamilton may not return next year, which would be interesting because that would leave Mercedes scrambling for another driver since they let Botas go. But I don't know how accurate those cliky baity articles really are. I usually just roll my eyes and move right along.

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  35. #435
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    Are they going to the new car next year?

  36. #436
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    Well, I know the wheels and tires are completely revamped next year ... from a 13" rim to an 18" rim. Apparently this is a massive change for two reasons: 1) with all the sidewall associated with a 13" rim, they don't have to worry as much about actual suspension mechanics, and 2) apparently acceleration is slowed down because of the additional energy required to spin-up a wheel-tire with more weight distributed near the outer part of the radius. There's a YouTube video that explains all that, but I can't quickly put my finger on it.

    Also, although I'm not totally sure about this one, but I believe they're going to allow more Venturi effect next year (the same phenomenon used on the old Bernoulli drives). I'm not sure of the differences, but Bernoulli and Venturi effects are quite similar.

    If you want an example of the Bernoulli effect, poke a straight-pin into the middle of a playing card ... then put the pin into the hole of a thread spool and then blow on the other end. Intuition says you should blow the card off the spool, but what actually happens is, the harder you blow, the more the card sticks to the bottom of the spool. It's sort of cool.

    p.s. It does have to be an old-style spool with some flat surface around the hole. These modern plastic spools just have venting around the hole, and I'm not sure that'll work.
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  37. #437
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    Si has been talking (for a few years) about a new car with significant changes to hopefully improve overtaking capabilities. It was suppose to start in 2021 but was delayed because of COVID. I was just curious if this was still happening.

  38. #438
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    I definitely think drivers should be able to overtake. I used to be into Nascar (but not so much lately), but on the Super Speedways they always talked about the slingshot effect they could get from drag. Not sure why but they don't talk about that as much in F1.

    But my feelings are mixed about the DRS. In a way, it just doesn't seem fair. If one car (behind) should get it, why don't both cars get it. Sure, I like passing, but I don't want to see it go back and forth on every lap. That gives too much to "playing with position strategy" rather than the best driver/team wins.

    I do sure hope Red Bull keeps up their front-runner status with Honda backing off of their support. Apparently they're starting a multi-year process where they're giving all their F1 engine technology to Red Bull (but not sure "giving" is the right word). Apparently, in a couple of years, it'll just be the Red Bull / Red Bull team (with them actually manufacturing their own engines).
    Any software I post in these forums written by me is provided "AS IS" without warranty of any kind, expressed or implied, and permission is hereby granted, free of charge and without restriction, to any person obtaining a copy. To all, peace and happiness.

  39. #439
    Super Moderator si_the_geek's Avatar
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    Re: Hamilton 5x World Champion ?

    Quote Originally Posted by wes4dbt View Post
    Si has been talking (for a few years) about a new car with significant changes to hopefully improve overtaking capabilities. It was suppose to start in 2021 but was delayed because of COVID. I was just curious if this was still happening.
    It certainly seems to be (I heard some stuff in commentary in the last race), but a quick web search didn't show anything recent

    Here's some highlights of the changes, which do seem like they will help overtaking by changing the air-flow in multiple ways:
    https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...oGrbqp6ye.html
    ...tests in the windtunnel (and simulator) have given good results.

    Quote Originally Posted by Elroy View Post
    I definitely think drivers should be able to overtake. I used to be into Nascar (but not so much lately), but on the Super Speedways they always talked about the slingshot effect they could get from drag. Not sure why but they don't talk about that as much in F1.
    With the designs of the tracks and the cars (until now) it doesn't tend to help much. Next years cars should improve things for it, but I don't know if it will become significant.

    But my feelings are mixed about the DRS. In a way, it just doesn't seem fair. If one car (behind) should get it, why don't both cars get it. Sure, I like passing, but I don't want to see it go back and forth on every lap. That gives too much to "playing with position strategy" rather than the best driver/team wins.
    It was added as a way to avoid a fast car being stuck behind a slow one for ages (so the fast car can race against an equal for better action), and until now has been good.

    With next years cars they might be too close in terms of performance for the DRS to be a good thing, so there might be too many overtakes and bringing in strategy for using it. I hope that isn't the case.

  40. #440
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    Re: Russell 1x World Champion ?

    I'm going to predict that the Haas slump continues. I know the story last year was that they didn't spend any money developing their 2021 car, so that they could focus resources on the 2022+ car. It could have been a convenient excuse. I don't expect much from them this year. I do think Williams jumps out of the bottom Tier of teams this year.

    I'm most excited to see how Russell performs this year. I'll be rooting equally for Max and George each race. Bottas has moved from my "root against each race" column to my "meh, whatever" column. Hopefully the mid-pack competition is as tight this year as it has been the last couple years.

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