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Thread: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

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    How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Hello Group,

    I currently have 5 products on the market written in VB6 (entrepreneur) . These products have evolved over the last 10-15 years. I have not come to the point where vb6 has limited the functionality in my software.

    To that point, I just cannot find the motivation to move to another development platform.

    My question is, is that common among you guys on this forum? If VB6 were to break what is your backup plan? Do you think it is irresponsible to wait until it breaks? I feel that point when it breaks will be the only way i will be motivated to move on...

    I have spoken with many upgrade consultants, and many of them have cautioned me on moving languages, they say that they have seen many companies go out of business because of the time spent migrating, made them loose their edge in the market. Because they are spending time trying to get to the same place, when their competitors are working on new features...

    Any wisdom, opinion, or approaches will be greatly appreciated.

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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by yereverluvinuncleber View Post
    This does not help much toward a VB7 but it may provide a new native home for VB6. I mentioned ReactOS in an earlier post but then it was truly in its infancy. 0.4.8 has just been released, it is still very much alpha-grade o/s that should only be run in a VM but it now installs and runs VB5, which you can see in the forum post here:

    start=1125#p130485



    Hopefully, we can test VB6 next and pray the result will be as positive. ReactOS being based upon Windows server 2003 will be a natural and familiar home for VB5/6 development and not being from Microsoft, forced obsolescence will not be part of the culture. ReactOS and VB6 are made for each other it is just a pity that ReactOS is written C, C++ and that you can't as easily contribute...

    Long live VB6!

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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    You also have to think about your own personal time horizon. When I first saw that subject line, my first thought was, "gee, I sure hope so..." Aside from that, it's a valid point. If you're in your thirties or forties, then you have a pretty long time horizon. If you're nearing, at, or past retirement, then why switch?

    I kind of figured I'd be coding for a long time. Now, I'm wondering whether there will be any point past retirement. VB6 is likely to last another ten years, and may well last longer....or Windows might go away and render it moot. If you have the option of retiring when and if that happens, maybe you don't even what happens.
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by axisdj View Post
    I have not come to the point where vb6 has limited the functionality in my software.
    That statement rings very true for me as well. It's somewhat concerning that I can't compile a true 64-bit program, but that really doesn't cause me any big concerns either.

    I think Shaggy is right. I think we can get at least another good 10 years out of it. It's probably going to be the possible (but, IMHO, very unlikely) demise of Windows that gets us before anything else.

    My primary project is just so terribly involved, that it's orders-of-magnitude-overwhelming for me to think about moving it to another language. That's precisely why I can still generate a significant level of indignation over what Microsoft did to us when it abandoned the COM architecture as a primary language.

    I still hold out hope (but probably pointless) that Microsoft will release VB7 (or VB6.5, or whatever). And I still insist they have most of the internal expertise to do it. How else could they maintain their VBA code? The only piece they're possibly not maintaining is a compiler to get from p-code to binary code. Heck, from my perspective, I'd take a VB7 IDE (COM based) that only compiled to p-code. And if it compiled both 32-bit, and 64-bit, that'd be incredible.

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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    The lack of support is the big thing, but we seem to have reached the point where all desktop and server application developers are being ignored. Even .Nutters must be getting a bit irritated at so little that is new getting coverage aside from WinRT and Azure. At least they still get wrappers, code samples, "open source" libraries, and docs to cover newer things though.

    When Windows comes to a halt VB6 programmers are in trouble. If you seriously expect that to impact you (coming sooner than 10 years and you will still need Windows as your platform) then you ought to be exploring alternatives now. If the horizon is actually 10 years or so guessing trends can be pretty tough. Most of the "world" outside of Windows + VB6 experiences very rapid churn and direction changes.

    Don't hitch your wagon to the vaporware star though. There are people making big promises of a VB6 alternative but so far there is very little to see. If it ever happens that's another story, but it doesn't look like a good bet right now.

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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Well.. personally I plan to keep every thing that was written in VB5 or 6 in VB6 as long as possible. I also still write some stuff in VB6 but I also use other languages so I am in no way locked into VB6 or even VB in general [and yes VB.Net is also VB like it or not] but I like being able to use it.

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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    To add to the discussion,

    If you had a new product idea today that can be done in VB6 5X faster than moving to another language, would you do it in VB6 or move on?

    WP

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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by axisdj View Post
    To add to the discussion,

    If you had a new product idea today that can be done in VB6 5X faster than moving to another language, would you do it in VB6 or move on?

    WP
    How big is it?

    I realized a while back that our group, which does mostly internal LOB, deals with "disposable" software: Programs that don't take so long to write that walking away from them can be done without any great pain. In fact, by chance rather than design, whenever any programmer quit, we threw out everything they did and started over. That was just chance, though. One or two wrote such interesting code that throwing it out was just easier. In another case, something screwed up when the source was archived. The archive wasn't checked, and when it was...well, that was the end of THAT project. That was a VB6 program. I played around with the program until I was familiar with how it behaved, and wrote the same program in .NET. It can't be the same (I never did figure out what one field in the DB was used for, and nobody else knew, either, so it couldn't have been all that important), but it looked and felt the same. It never got used, though, because another change came along right after that, and both programs were scrapped.

    That's the advantage of disposable software. It just doesn't matter enough to worry about. Write it in whatever you want. If things change, just go a different direction. Some of the programs are pretty important in what they do, but as long as they aren't too big, change isn't really painful.

    On the other hand, if you are starting into a BIG project, then I'd do my best to figure out what the future held, and go in that direction. I'd be wrong, of course, because I'm no better at predicting the future than anybody else, but maybe I'd only be wrong...ish.
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by axisdj View Post
    To add to the discussion,

    If you had a new product idea today that can be done in VB6 5X faster than moving to another language, would you do it in VB6 or move on?

    WP
    I would stay with VB6 then, cause I know it will work. Moving to another language that I'm unsure for me it's not a good idea.

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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by axisdj View Post
    To add to the discussion,

    If you had a new product idea today that can be done in VB6 5X faster than moving to another language, would you do it in VB6 or move on?

    WP
    Quote Originally Posted by Robotic View Post
    I would stay with VB6 then, cause I know it will work. Moving to another language that I'm unsure for me it's not a good idea.

    It's a bit of an "if all you have is a hammer..." type situation though.
    If you become proficient in some other language you might find that making such a product could be done faster in that language, maybe more extensive libraries exist etc.

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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    I would most likely use VB6 in such a case but would also try to write it in such a way that it would be easy to port to a different language if it did well.

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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by DataMiser View Post
    I would most likely use VB6 in such a case but would also try to write it in such a way that it would be easy to port to a different language if it did well.
    That is a very smart way to put it. All new projects I have started since 2010 only use the bare controls in vb6 and is written in way that can easily be re-written in another language, currently my backup language/ide/compiler is Lazarus.

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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    We sell to some large companies and it is getting problematic

    * Support is getting harder. So many things are web apps\services\hosted elsewhere that I'm seeing a lot of "IT system engineers" who can't follow basic instructions such as "Replace the old program.exe file with the new one" because they don't have any other client\server apps that they support and have no experience.

    * Desktops computers are being locked down. Automatic application updates are impossible because the users dont have rights to their computers anymore and running installers requires coordination with too many teams making updates takes days vs minutes

    * Security requirements are changing due to hacks. The most recent example is tls 1.3 for sql connections. Fortunately, microsoft relented and did provide a solution (https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/sql...or-sql-server/).

    I think the day will come that some critical component will be hacked or left behind and we will be forced to move.

    I'd never consider a rewrite (https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2000/...ver-do-part-i/) but would move from desktop to the web. We do interface with hardware so we will still need software on but I'd imagine it would only need to post to the webapi and would be less work to support and develop.

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    VB-aholic & Lovin' It LaVolpe's Avatar
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Glad I'm not really in that boat. Daughter, youngest child, just turned 17. Only need my job for a few more years. After that -- headed to a country (still window shopping) where I can live very comfortably on my military retirement, some investments & whatever social security I'll get if it still exists.
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by axisdj View Post
    I currently have 5 products on the market written in VB6 (entrepreneur) . These products have evolved over the last 10-15 years. I have not come to the point where vb6 has limited the functionality in my software.

    To that point, I just cannot find the motivation to move to another development platform.

    My question is, is that common among you guys on this forum? If VB6 were to break what is your backup plan? Do you think it is irresponsible to wait until it breaks? I feel that point when it breaks will be the only way i will be motivated to move on....
    I keep seeing more posts like this, and I do feel mostly the same as you. I have two commercial products, also written in VB6 and although I do see a path to VB.NET or C#, I currently have no immediate plans to make a move. I am worried though, partly because it's getting harder and harder to find competent coders to help in my endeavours. I'm starting to get to the point where reaching out to other VB6 entrepreneurs is becoming more & more attractive, especially if it's in the same area. For me, that's the network/IT world.

    I think migrating to another language should only happen when you feel you have more than enough resources to do so, which includes hiring others for the long haul. If your product is viable in the mobile world, I'd seriously consider thinking about that. I sure am.

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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    I'm with VB6 until it breaks. Part of why I spend so much time making my apps look like ones written in the latest VB.NET and interact with the file system like them. Same with Windows 7 (or at least until a new Windows version that doesn't spy on you, serve you ads, force updates, otherwise take away control, and always reverse what little options exist to fight these).
    Bottom line is there's no true successor to VB6 and it's still by far the best tool for standard Win32 desktop apps. .NET is just awful; if I did have to switch I'd learn C++. The way I program porting to that isn't much harder than .NET (which is basically a total rewrite too).
    The good news is, given all the legacy business applications, I can't see support ending for decades more.

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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    vb6 will never break. when windows upgrades to yet another windows, it will takes years before "everyone" will move to it, during that time we will figure out how to go around it, by a new ide or emulators.

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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by baka View Post
    vb6 will never break. when windows upgrades to yet another windows, it will takes years before "everyone" will move to it, during that time we will figure out how to go around it, by a new ide or emulators.
    Yes of course not everyone will move to whatever new version that may or may not come out. Some will stay with old versions, some will move to something completely different. The only thing that matters though is what your customer base is using, everyone else is irrelevant. VB6 will break, hopefully a long time from now but everything in the tech world comes to an end and is replaced by something else. VB6 has already lasted way longer than anyone would have thought.

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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    If you think C++ is portable you are either writing very simple command line programs or you are fooling yourself.

    If you are using exaggerated claims about Windows 10 as an excuse for staying aboard the Titanic (Windows 95, Windows XP, Windows 7) "fooling yourself" might be the more likely case. Windows 10 has lots of problems, but they aren't the ones mentioned above.

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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    If you think C++ is portable you are either writing very simple command line programs or you are fooling yourself.

    If you are using exaggerated claims about Windows 10 as an excuse for staying aboard the Titanic (Windows 95, Windows XP, Windows 7) "fooling yourself" might be the more likely case. Windows 10 has lots of problems, but they aren't the ones mentioned above.
    The 2nd part is to me so I guess the 1st is too... I've had to do some some work with C++ before so no I'm not fooling myself when I say C++ isn't that much worse than .NET when it comes to re-writing vb6 apps.


    And if you think my comments about Windows 10 are exaggerated, I'm afraid it's not me who's fooled myself. What claims did I make?
    Spys on you: Telemetry cannot be fully disabled, even on the Enterprise edition. MS still hasn't disclosed some of the info sent, and it's not possible to audit what they transmit. Even what they do acknowledge easily meets the bar for 'spys on you' on minimal settings: the "Basic" level collects all your hardware information and all installed programs. Yes it was backported to 7, but unlike with 10 it's easy to simply not install the update containing it.

    Serves you ads: First, all sorts of junk apps/games show up as tiles. This is paid placement. Advertisements to use Edge, Office, and Skype frequently pop up in many places. Lock screen ads are enabled by default. You seriously think this isn't a problem? You've got to be kidding me.

    Forces updates: If you jump through a bunch of hoops, you can disable it all together. But when you do need to update, you can no longer pick and choose which updates you want (with the exception of drivers, when the tool works).

    Reverses settings: Updates frequently reset changes you've made regarding system settings. Not once, this is routine. Again, this shouldn't even be in dispute, you'll find thousands of threads of people complaining about this.

    Takes away control: All of the above makes this case. You're less in control than previous versions.


    If anything, I've understated the case against Windows 10. To say that the above aren't even problems, wow, you've fallen hard for MS' excuses and marketing (Like oh my gosh those app suggestions are so totally helpful!). And talking to anyone about staying on the Titanic is a little funny coming from someone still using VB6 like the rest of us

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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by fafalone View Post
    The 2nd part is to me so I guess the 1st is too... I've had to do some some work with C++ before so no I'm not fooling myself when I say C++ isn't that much worse than .NET when it comes to re-writing vb6 apps.


    And if you think my comments about Windows 10 are exaggerated, I'm afraid it's not me who's fooled myself. What claims did I make?
    Spys on you: Telemetry cannot be fully disabled, even on the Enterprise edition. MS still hasn't disclosed some of the info sent, and it's not possible to audit what they transmit. Even what they do acknowledge easily meets the bar for 'spys on you' on minimal settings: the "Basic" level collects all your hardware information and all installed programs. Yes it was backported to 7, but unlike with 10 it's easy to simply not install the update containing it.

    Serves you ads: First, all sorts of junk apps/games show up as tiles. This is paid placement. Advertisements to use Edge, Office, and Skype frequently pop up in many places. Lock screen ads are enabled by default. You seriously think this isn't a problem? You've got to be kidding me.

    Forces updates: If you jump through a bunch of hoops, you can disable it all together. But when you do need to update, you can no longer pick and choose which updates you want (with the exception of drivers, when the tool works).

    Reverses settings: Updates frequently reset changes you've made regarding system settings. Not once, this is routine. Again, this shouldn't even be in dispute, you'll find thousands of threads of people complaining about this.

    Takes away control: All of the above makes this case. You're less in control than previous versions.


    If anything, I've understated the case against Windows 10. To say that the above aren't even problems, wow, you've fallen hard for MS' excuses and marketing (Like oh my gosh those app suggestions are so totally helpful!). And talking to anyone about staying on the Titanic is a little funny coming from someone still using VB6 like the rest of us

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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    well, the tools i share are quite unique and im also making games. also, its all free and im doing only stuff i want. theres no customers so i dont need to please anyone.
    so for me, the importance is only if the executable run or not. the gui is fully graphical so im making my own icons and style so even if vb6 is old theres no trace of that.

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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    If you're a SAD (Slow Application Development) programmer you might be a good candidate for FreeBasic. None of that pesky baggage like controls, events, data binding, visual designers, and so on.

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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Joel Spolsky of the JoelOnSoftware blog and founder and CEO of Stack Overflow has just described VB6 as "the most perfect programming environment ever created"

    Programmers love Google more than Apple, but dread Microsoft

    And as VB6 looks likely to last as long as Windows there seems little point in moving to a different Windows desktop language.

    That doesn't mean you shouldn't look elsewhere for other programming languages to meet other requirements.
    I'd suggest JavaScript - this looks like outlasting Windows, is probably the most portable language around, and it is surprisingly similar to VB6 in many ways.

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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by VB6 Programming View Post
    I'd suggest JavaScript - this looks like outlasting Windows, is probably the most portable language around, and it is surprisingly similar to VB6 in many ways.
    Yeah, that would sure surprise me. Similarities between JavaScript and VB6:

    1) They're both based in the English language character set.
    2) They both run on computers.
    3).....

    Can't think of a third similarity. What am I missing? I was going to say that they both have integers, except, of course, that JS does not.
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    Yeah, that would sure surprise me. Similarities between JavaScript and VB6:

    1) They're both based in the English language character set.
    2) They both run on computers.
    3).....

    Can't think of a third similarity. What am I missing? I was going to say that they both have integers, except, of course, that JS does not.

    Try harder.

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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by VB6 Programming View Post
    Try harder.
    Nope, still nothing. Your turn. Come up with some similarities.
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    if I did have to switch I'd learn C++
    c++, apart from being a really great language..., doesn't provide anything for gui. As part of the standard, it only covers console applications. For any gui application in c++ then either you need to use direct provided OS APIs (eg Windows Win32) (which definitely are not portable) or a gui framework (MFC for Windows or QT for x-platform work etc etc). If you move to c++ from a gui language (such as VB) then not only do you have to learn c++, you also have to decide how the gui is to be provided and additionally learn that as well. Say a minimum of 2 years if you have no solid c++ experience.
    Last edited by 2kaud; Apr 21st, 2018 at 06:31 AM.
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by 2kaud View Post
    c++, apart from being a really great language..., doesn't provide anything for gui.
    As part of the standard, it only covers console applications.
    For any gui application in c++ then either you need to use direct provided OS APIs
    (eg Windows Win32) -(which definitely are not portable)...
    Well, that's exactly what I'm trying to tell the VB6-community for years now (here in that very forum).

    Since we will have to switch (finally, at some point in time - perhaps "around 2024") -
    any investments (into learning or incorporating the Win32-API for "new stuff") are pointless and a waste of time.
    Any VB6-Code you write today, which makes calls against such libs, will not be portable (is "throwaway-code").

    If you are forced to learn a new language anyways (because the Vendor of VB6 abandons it "for good" in 2024) -
    the logical thing to do is, to abandon also the *platform* (the *platform-libraries* of the same Vendor -> the Win32-API).

    Quote Originally Posted by 2kaud View Post
    ... QT for x-platform work etc ...
    ... you also have to decide how the gui is to be provided and additionally learn that as well.
    Exactly.

    In all other "language-camps" that fact is well-understood:
    - learning (working through) platform-independent libraries is a must nowadays

    Platform-aware development means usage of:
    1) Apache, NGinx, Node.js for Application- and WebServers
    2) PostgreSQL, MySQL, Firebird for larger Backend-DBs
    3) SQLite for (App-) and local DBs or InMemory-DBs
    4) Cairo, Skia or OpenGL for antialiased, modern graphics-stuff
    5) SVG and PDF as a resultion-independent Vector-formats (directly generated PDF used for "paged Reports")
    6) QT, GTK+, wxWidgets, etc. for Desktop-GUIs
    7) one or two modern JavaScript-Frameworks (jQuery, Angular, OpenUI5, etc.) for Browser-GUIs and WebApps

    Most developers in other camps do "honor" (pick from) the above list, learning how to use the relevant libraries.

    On the other hand, what VB6-developers currently use (and unexplainably also *recommend* here, for developing new stuff with VB6) is:
    1) MS-IIS
    2) MS-SQLServer
    3) MS-JET-Engine (*.mdbs)
    4) MS-GDI+, MS-WIA, MS-DirectX, MS-Direct2D
    5) MS-EMF (Windows-PDF-Printerdrivers, or MS-dependent Reporting-Controls for "paged Reports")
    6) MS-CommonControls (or other MS-dependent OCXes) for Desktop-GUIs
    7) if done at all, the knowledge seems to be restricted to "dynamic concatenation of HTML-tags"

    Olaf
    Last edited by Schmidt; Apr 21st, 2018 at 07:50 AM.

  30. #30
    Android OpenGL ES Guru Jacob Roman's Avatar
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Since the mobile market is the future, Im jumping on the Android train and sticking with Android Studio. IOS will be next in due time once I get a Mac. We're at a day and age where people can now formulate their own companies and not have to work for someone else by simply making apps that generate ad revenue usings objects (or in mobile cases "widgets") such as AdMob by Google. Other than the mobile market, C++ will continue to dominate as other languages will come and go. As much as I love VB6, it's becoming more difficult to get it up and running with every new operating system without resorting to a few hacks. And that doesn't include distributing much needed runtime DLLs to get the apps working on other machines. Imagine if my Java apps in Android had to make like 30 or 40 if statements for every little thing I had to do to support all devices upto Android 1.0.

    [EDIT] Call me crazy but itd be sick if someone made VB7 for Android / IOS

  31. #31
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    the problem here Olaf is:
    - using independent libraries, means we need to learn how to use it. that "amount" of time that takes to learn that, could be better spent learning a new language that offers modern gui and better support.

    the only way, and this i have already posted before, is that VB7 gives us a modern gui and more features but still we can use our "old" code without too much re-coding.
    what i would like, is a way to use API, like we are used to, but instead of calling MS API, it will go to a "portable library" or libraries that are open-sourced and created by the community.

    you also offer vbRichClient. but so far its just a failure, dll that couldn't register, code that i couldn't convert because theres no equivalent, eventually i gave up, tons of time i just wasted for nothing.
    so far windows API works. no one of the thousands of users that uses my tools complains that the exe don't work.
    theres tons of examples everywhere, a community that helps when you get stuck. why change when its going well?

    that doomsday talk is just a waste of time, when we get to that point vb6 dont work anymore im sure we all can adapt and find solutions.
    also, if we want to work with smartphones, applications for mac and ios, then you are definitely in the wrong language.
    i also work with adobe flash, and i can code action script. why? because i needed that. that is how i adapt.
    you learn what you need, not what people tell you want to do.

    if i really wanted to learn freebasic, i would do that and i would not be in this forum anymore. so, thanks you for suggesting me to move on, but im not there yet, i still want to work with vb.

  32. #32
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by baka View Post
    the problem here Olaf is:
    - using independent libraries, means we need to learn how to use it.
    Sure, any lib so far unknown to the developer, has to be learned...

    Quote Originally Posted by baka View Post
    that "amount" of time that takes to learn that, could be better spent learning a new language that offers modern gui and better support.
    And with the sentence above, you just demonstrated how much you have still to learn
    (about languages and libs - and how to keep those two separated in your thought-train)...

    Where do you think the "modern GUI" comes from (if not from "new libs you will have to learn").

    If we take fafalones example (who considers switching to C++, then starting to learn entirely new stuff there - language and library-wise)...
    Regarding libraries (and thus GUI-wise) he can now choose to either invest time to:
    1) learn the lib-interfaces of the MS-Foundation-Classes, and for modern drawing-stuff the MS-GDI+ or Direct2D-Classes
    2) alternatively (with about the same time-investment) he could learn how to use the platform-independent QT-ClassLib
    Given that the Win-OS is in decline, I'd certainly know which library I'd invest valuable time into (to write portable C++ GUIs with).

    Quote Originally Posted by baka View Post
    ...the only way, and this i have already posted before, is that VB7 gives us a modern gui and more features but still we can use our "old" code without too much re-coding.
    Really?
    ...How do you think that shall work (in case you mean a platform-independent "new VB7"-compiler - which (language-wise) ideally works against platform-independent libs)?
    Again, the only stuff you seem to know about (graphics-lib-wise) is GDI32.dll - which is not a platform-independent lib.
    All your VB6-code you write today (Code, composed around lines which all call into that MS-lib) will never work natively on Linux or Android or iOS,
    so your entire "VB6-UserCode" (that is based on calls into gdi32.dll) will have to be rewritten (even in a new VB7 which is entirely compatible to VB6)...

    Why that is so hard to understand for some people, is really beyond me...

    Quote Originally Posted by baka View Post
    ...what i would like, is a way to use API, like we are used to, but instead of calling MS API, it will go to a "portable library"...
    Well, why don't you do so already ...
    (e.g. the cairo-flat-api is there - and easy to use from any language - if you want to avoid the RC5-Wrapper-Classes for cairo, you can do so right now).

    Quote Originally Posted by baka View Post
    you also offer vbRichClient. but so far its just a failure, dll that couldn't register,
    ...eventually i gave up, tons of time i just wasted for nothing.
    Well, that's a contradiction in itself (bordering on lying)...
    Because if you were not even able to register the RC5-COM-lib (registering COM-libs is "basic knowledge" for any VB6-dev) -
    you were apparently not using the RC5-lib at all (hence no chance to "waste tons of time" with it)...

    Quote Originally Posted by baka View Post
    ...so far windows API works. no one of the thousands of users that uses my tools complains that the exe don't work.
    theres tons of examples everywhere, a community that helps when you get stuck. why change when its going well?
    Not sure in what universe you live, but this very thread here is discussing "the end of VB6"
    (which according to MS will happen within the next 6 years or so) - and what to do, to "prepare for the time after".
    And one thing is for sure: extensive knowledge about GDI32.dll (or other flat-win32-API-dlls) will definitely not help (for the time after).

    Quote Originally Posted by baka View Post
    ...that doomsday talk is just a waste of time, when we get to that point vb6 dont work anymore im sure we all can adapt and find solutions.
    Sorry, but that's an infantile "I'll just stick my head in the sand, and be optimistic about it" kind of stance to take.
    Others (professionals who develop or maintain VB6-Apps, which ensure a monthly income) like to prepare "in advance".

    Quote Originally Posted by baka View Post
    if i really wanted to learn freebasic, ...
    Where is the problem?
    If all you currently do is, to work "directly against the MS-Win32-API, then you can jump right in
    (VB6-Declares for the Win32-libs are entirely compatible, when you put them into a FreeBasic *.bas module).

    Olaf
    Last edited by Schmidt; Apr 21st, 2018 at 12:30 PM.

  33. #33
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    javascript can be the standard language for programming desktop applications, in the next few years. Meanwhile we can program in VB6 as usual.

  34. #34
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Java Script? Really? As far as I am concerned java script is for client side browser related code and very little else. I do not see it as being in any way like VB and would not consider it at all for desktop apps. Java maybe but not script just like I would use VB but not vb script.

  35. #35
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by DataMiser View Post
    Java Script? Really?
    Yes, really...

    Quote Originally Posted by DataMiser View Post
    As far as I am concerned java script is for client side browser related code and very little else.
    That's just "uninformedness" on your part... (it is used for normal Desktop-Apps and also in serverside Backend-Code).
    <shrug>

    Quote Originally Posted by DataMiser View Post
    I do not see it as being in any way like VB and would not consider it at all for desktop apps.
    Why not - modern JavaScript-Engines work very much "jitted" (the results being much faster than VB6-PCode-binaries).

    And there's extensions (intermediate compilers) like e.g. TypeScript (which produce "plain JavaScript-code"),
    which then allow strongly typed Coding as well as "normal Class-definitions" (quite similar to how one works in e.g. C#).

    Olaf

  36. #36
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmidt View Post
    Yes, really...
    That's just "uninformedness" on your part... (it is used for normal Desktop-Apps and also in serverside Backend-Code).
    <shrug>
    Why not - modern JavaScript-Engines work very much "jitted" (the results being much faster than VB6-PCode-binaries).
    And there's extensions (intermediate compilers) like e.g. TypeScript (which produce "plain JavaScript-code"),
    which then allow strongly typed Coding as well as "normal Class-definitions" (quite similar to how one works in e.g. C#).
    Olaf
    I did not say that it wasn't used for anything else. I said as far as I am concerned it is for client side browser related code and very little else.
    And no it is not like VB not at all. I doubt that it is as fast as VB P-Code but even if it is that means little to nothing to me. I don't build my apps to run as P-Code, not sure why anyone would.

    I'm sure that if you add the right libraries you could do a lot with JS but the assertion was that it could be the standard language for desktop apps and to me that seems pretty far out there. Full blown Java maybe, C# more likely, but scripting of any sort is unlikely to become the standard as it is just far to easy to hack.

  37. #37
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by DataMiser View Post
    And no it is not like VB not at all.
    Your understanding of the term "JavaScript" is an old-fashioned one (as said, seems you're not really "on page" anymore in terms of JS)...

    In the meantime it is not only "a language" anymore, but considered also in terms of an:
    - intermediate language ... (kinda like "MSIL for .NET) being generated as the output from a whole lot of "full grown languages"
    - and also a platform (with large, powerful libraries - some of them already "quasi-standard", powerful rendering-capabilities, great connectivity)

    Quote Originally Posted by DataMiser View Post
    I doubt that it is as fast as VB P-Code ...
    As I wrote already - modern JS-engines produce faster running assemblies than the VB6-PCode-engine.

    Quote Originally Posted by DataMiser View Post
    I don't build my apps to run as P-Code, not sure why anyone would.
    I often build my Apps as PCode (to achieve smaller binaries) - just make that experiment some time
    with one of your own Apps - the differences will (for the most part) be marginal (performance-wise).

    Quote Originally Posted by DataMiser View Post
    I'm sure that if you add the right libraries you could do a lot with JS but the assertion was that it could be the standard language for desktop apps and to me that seems pretty far out there.
    It is not "far out there" - it is already common practice...

    Quote Originally Posted by DataMiser View Post
    ...scripting of any sort is unlikely to become the standard...
    As already mentioned, even "straight JavaScript" is not really "scripting" anymore -
    and please inform yourself about WebAssembly (now part of all the main-browser-engines - even on mobile): http://webassembly.org/

    Quote Originally Posted by DataMiser View Post
    ...as it is just far to easy to hack.
    That's also not true, because your code sits serverside (and won't get downloaded to unauthorized clients, if you implement that).
    On top of that there's several mechanisms to enhance integrity of loaded modules:
    https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/...urce_Integrity
    And with regards to (JS or WebAssembly-based) Desktop-Apps, you can always ship your own Browser-Engine
    (in a Dll-package like e.g. Chromium) alongside your App (with disabled "Developer"- or "Debug-Mode").

    So, no - not that easy to compromise this stuff...

    And no, I'm not the biggest fan of it either - but to say it is "irrelevant for future App- (or Desktop-)development" would be immensely ignorant.

    Olaf

  38. #38
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Quote Originally Posted by Schmidt View Post
    That's also not true, because your code sits serverside (and won't get downloaded to unauthorized clients, if you implement that).
    You do know I was talking about desktop apps right? How does the code of a desktop app end up being server side code?

    Yes it is totally possible that JS has changed a lot since the last I really looked into it but if it has evolved beyond scripting then it is not really JS any more is it.

  39. #39
    Addicted Member habenero's Avatar
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    Well for what I need to do - VB6 is my Soup de Jour..
    Almost anyone here can blow me away with their expertise and I respect them for it
    But you see - that being said - with no formal training/classes or et all I am able to write programs that suit my needs...
    I will be a VB6 fan for life..and I really think that there are a few of us out there that have learned from the net and others and their own moxy to implement that programming app to what they want it to be

    My 2 cents

    Jeff

  40. #40
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    Re: How Many People are Sticking around Until the end of VB6

    So pick a pony and ride it for a while.

    Even if you end up discarding it for one reason or another the experience of learning another programming language is useful.

    Most of the time we are talking about more than just a language anyway. They seldom exist in a vacuum unless command-line programming is your goal and even that implies console interaction libraries as well as OS interaction libraries.

    Most do not come with a complete set of tools though. You have to cobble up a bag of tools such as some sort of editor or IDE and some suite libraries to avoid coding everything from dirt. Your choices there usually dictate what sort of programs you'll be creating.

    VS.Net tries to be everything to everyone and that's part of why it is so huge.

    But if you want long term stability you aren't going to find much out there to compare with VB6. Such stability is both a blessing and a curse.


    The original question here is sort of silly. Sticking to a single language and set of tools "until something happens" puts the burden of relearning into a big bang many won't survive. If you aren't working with alternatives already you may find you don't have a ticket when this boat drops you at the dock and leaves.

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