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Thread: Fatal exceptions?

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    Fatal exceptions?

    Hi

    For an article I am writing I need examples of software faults that have caused human fatalities (it's a "make a big impression" thing, not morbid fascination).
    Any ideas?

    Cheers
    Duncan

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    PowerPoster SJWhiteley's Avatar
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    Re: Fatal exceptions?

    Mars lander. Oh, wait, how many people were on that thing?

    The Prius(?) gas pedal sticking thing - isn't it a drive-by-wire car?

    SS Challenger. Although, technically not a software failure, but a failure of appropriate use of Microsoft Powerpoint.
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    Lively Member homer13j's Avatar
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    Re: Fatal exceptions?

    Quote Originally Posted by SJWhiteley View Post
    Mars lander. Oh, wait, how many people were on that thing?
    I thought that was due to a mixup of metric & standard measurements? If so, you really can't blame the software.
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    Re: Fatal exceptions?

    My investigations have dug up quite a few examples from aviation (Airbus Paris air show crash) and some really rather horrible industrial control systems failures.

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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Fatal exceptions?

    I thought there were some train crashes in the last few years that were attributed to faulty routing software, but it's just a faint memory.
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    Lively Member homer13j's Avatar
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    Re: Fatal exceptions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Merrion View Post
    Airbus Paris air show crash
    According to Wikipedia that crash was blamed on pilot error, but a National Geographic documentary floated a conspiracy theory that suggested a cover-up where someone deleted four minutes of data from the flight data recorder ("the black box.")

    Airbus has denied this and claims NG's "expert" simply didn't understand the synchronization between the black box and the control tower.

    The flight crew claims the engines didn't respond to their throttle inputs, but the data says they reached 91% of thrust when they began ingesting treetop vegetation and subsequently failed.

    Based on the info available it's likely software had nothing to do with this crash.
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    Lively Member homer13j's Avatar
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    Re: Fatal exceptions?

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    I thought there were some train crashes in the last few years that were attributed to faulty routing software, but it's just a faint memory.
    I don't recall any train crashes blamed on faulty software. Those systems have several layers of built-in redundancy and are pretty bulletproof. Got any links?

    Train crashes are usually the result of faulty hardware, employee errors, and of course the occasional dumbass driving around crossing gates & signals. I also recall the sabotage of Amtrak's Sunset Limited a couple of decades back that was never solved. The saboteurs unbolted a rail and attached a wire jumper across the gap to fool the dispatcher and signalling system into thinking everything was normal.
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    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: Fatal exceptions?

    I barely have a memory of it, let alone a link. I'm also thinking that it may have been in China, in which case any report I saw may well have been....incorrect. You never can quite tell with them.
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    PowerPoster SJWhiteley's Avatar
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    Re: Fatal exceptions?

    Since computer systems do exactly what you tell them to do, aren't all failures due to 'faulty software' actually human error?

    The one and only failure in software was the x86 floating point error (Pentium?) which would not perform some floating point calculations correctly. This could be classed as a borderline hardware failure, though.

    Edit: it seems that when a program is sufficiently complex enough that failures of that code are non-obvious, it's attributed to faulty software, but when the problem is - even in hindsight - obvious, then it is attributed to human error. Aren't these things equitable?

    For example, consider a multithreading application which every billion cycles encounters a synchronization problem causing the result of a calculation to be incorrect. Is this considered faulty software?
    Last edited by SJWhiteley; Feb 10th, 2015 at 09:29 AM.
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    Re: Fatal exceptions?

    Is this considered faulty software?
    IMO yes. I'd argue that if the code contained a mistake then it's faulty software. If an error is caused by a user miss-using the delivered software (entering incorrect values etc.) then it's user error. You're 100% right, though, that both are ultimately subsets of "human error".
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    PowerPoster SJWhiteley's Avatar
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    Re: Fatal exceptions?

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    IMO yes. I'd argue that if the code contained a mistake then it's faulty software. If an error is caused by a user miss-using the delivered software (entering incorrect values etc.) then it's user error. You're 100% right, though, that both are ultimately subsets of "human error".
    I'm kind of sensitive to this, at the moment. The machine we have is causing all sorts of quality issues because it's not doing what it should. The response from the engineers (a loose term in this case) is that the program is both working correctly and it's a programming fault.

    Regardless, they refuse to admit that there's a problem, and thus cannot do anything about it. When pushed, they simply explain this is how it works and needs more investigation.

    I think this is a flaw in software engineering, as taught, in that we are able to divest ourselves of a rather serious responsibility, as the general non-technical public at large accept that software just breaks, regardless of application.

    I cannot see a structural engineer shrugging 'oh well, something must have gone wrong' when a bridge fails, and it being taken as an acceptable answer.
    "Ok, my response to that is pending a Google search" - Bucky Katt.
    "There are two types of people in the world: Those who can extrapolate from incomplete data sets." - Unk.
    "Before you can 'think outside the box' you need to understand where the box is."

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    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
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    Re: Fatal exceptions?

    I think I'd agree with you on all of that.

    You can separate user faults from software faults but they're still both human faults. Hardware faults might be a human fault (if it's delivered with the fault) or it might just be degradation over time. Ultimately, though, if you buy a product from someone and it doesn't work per it's spec - it's a fault and you should have recourse.
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    Lively Member homer13j's Avatar
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    Re: Fatal exceptions?

    Quote Originally Posted by SJWhiteley View Post
    The response from the engineers (a loose term in this case) is that the program is both working correctly and it's a programming fault.
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