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Thread: What if there was a NEW vb6

  1. #41
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: What if there was a NEW vb6

    I'm beginning to get the feeling that someone has seriously mislead you axisdj. While I'm not questioning your ability to create quality apps for your clients, its becoming clear to me that you really don't have even a basic understanding of how Windows works. You don't need this knowledge to write applications but if you're going to be talking about JITs, compilers, runtimes and such you really should start learning a little bit about what goes on when you execute an app in Windows. I don't know everything about this but I have a firm general understanding and I'm telling you, nothing you said in your last post made a lick of sense. It was like reading a cave man's explanation of why a combustion engine isn't working properly.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  2. #42
    MS SQL Powerposter szlamany's Avatar
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    Re: What if there was a NEW vb6

    I am going to kind of agree with his last post. I did a lot of "control" creation at runtime in VB6 - always found it to be smooth and painless.

    VB.Net's controls do not scale like VB6 from my experience. Really nice things like FlowPanels or FlowLayouts - whatever they are called - can't handle lots of changes during runtime, for example. GRID speeds are terrible.

    That's one of the driving reasons I left for the browser world and jQuery - the browser/JavaScript/HTML is made for UI - and really has a tight control and speed is what all these browser engines compete over.

    My next DESKTOP UI will be written in a much lower level language then .Net - whatever it takes to make a WINFORM looking APP without using MS .Net libraries.

    Has anyone ever used TOAD (oracle developer tool)? I wonder what that is written in...

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  3. #43
    PowerPoster dilettante's Avatar
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    Re: What if there was a NEW vb6

    TOAD, the Oracle tool from Quest/Dell was written in Delphi.

    They say there here too: TOAD Setup and Configuration

  4. #44

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    Re: What if there was a NEW vb6

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    LOL...even an interpreted language like JavaScript can execute several thousand functions a second. Hell, even scripting languages in games can go that fast.

    Look at Demon Arena, it features a 2D engine I wrote for fun. It can comfortably animate several hundred entities at the same time. I stress tested it with 5000 creature entities and it still runs smoothy. It'll drive you nuts if I told you the amount of things the engine has to do on every creature every several milliseconds, the bounds checking, angle calculations, direction checks not to mention that some of the creatures have complex definitions that are like small programs themselves, which define their behavior, a thing even I had doubts when I first wrote it but the damn thing still works like a breeze. The only thing that can slow it down is the collision detection system and that has nothing to do with the language. Its just a very poor implementation not even real game programmers would dare to use. Frankly speaking, your implication that the .Net runtime may not be feasible for your app is utter nonsense.



    Didn't you say in your other thread that you're using a DLL ? The DLL would be native code. You know that you can still call it from VB.Net/C# right ?

    Even if you're talking to the hardware from VB6 you do know that ultimately all the heavy lifting will be done by the Windows kernel right ? You talk to the hardware through user space APIs which are usually little more than wrappers around kernel functions. Its a form of isolation which keeps user space apps from interfering too deeply with the Windows kernel.

    The point is you don't have that much control over performance other than how much and how often you send data to your devices and since all programming languages can execute function calls at phenomenal speed then it means you can control your devices with phenomenal speed.



    Not really. Sorry man
    Ok. Again if .net is so wonderful why are none of my competitors using it? They are mostly using QT win32?

    Anyway i know how you feel about us vb6 types.

    Wp

  5. #45
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: What if there was a NEW vb6

    Quote Originally Posted by szlamany View Post
    I am going to kind of agree with his last post. I did a lot of "control" creation at runtime in VB6 - always found it to be smooth and painless.

    VB.Net's controls do not scale like VB6 from my experience. Really nice things like FlowPanels or FlowLayouts - whatever they are called - can't handle lots of changes during runtime, for example. GRID speeds are terrible.

    That's one of the driving reasons I left for the browser world and jQuery - the browser/JavaScript/HTML is made for UI - and really has a tight control and speed is what all these browser engines compete over.

    My next DESKTOP UI will be written in a much lower level language then .Net - whatever it takes to make a WINFORM looking APP without using MS .Net libraries.

    Has anyone ever used TOAD (oracle developer tool)? I wonder what that is written in...
    Well controls in VB6 are lighter than those in the .Net Framework. VB6(actually ActiveX) even had windowless controls which were even lighter than a typical control. The LayoutPanel controls do have a lot of quirks and work quite terribly when you try to do fancy things with them. I have mixed feelings about the DataGridView though. I use it all the time and don't experience performance problems unless I try to populate it with too much data but I believe that's why it has a virtual mode, which allows a lot more flexibility with how you populate the grid with data. In general though, I don't get problems with UIs in VB.Net apps but I know what you're talking about.

    When building very complicated UIs, VB6 does seem to have an edge in performance. I've faced this and realized I had to change a couple old habits. For example, UIs that morph like checking a box which reveals extra options. In VB6, I would have done something like this by hiding(Visible=False) a GroupBox or UserControl and showing it when the option was checked. VB6 handled this quite nicely but you're going to have problems if you do this excessively in VB.Net. I had to change this habit. I no long hide controls, I just instantiate them now. Its much cleaner that way anyway. Another thing is that GDI+ can be a little sluggish when compared to GDI which is what you would have used for user drawn controls in VB6. In general its not a problem but controls that have to perform too many graphical operations per paint is going to perform worse than its VB6/GDI counterpart. I've found that a little optimization here and there can boost their performance. You can't go hog wild like you could in VB6, you have to pay a little more attention to how you're drawing your controls now. Another solution is to use XNA which seems to work quite well for Shaggy.

    Yea so I agree that VB.Net isn't close to being the best for creating snappy UIs and I agree with your move to Web UI interfaces. I've always held that HTML/XAML and similar tech is unbeatable for creating nice UIs.

    Anyways, axisdj's last post wasn't about controls. He seemed to be saying that he isn't sure that the .Net runtime can execute hundreds of function calls per second which of course is ridiculous.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  6. #46
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: What if there was a NEW vb6

    Quote Originally Posted by axisdj View Post
    Ok. Again if .net is so wonderful why are none of my competitors using it? They are mostly using QT win32?
    Why are you asking me? You really expect me to know the answer to that ?

    Quote Originally Posted by axisdj View Post
    Anyway i know how you feel about us vb6 types.
    Really ? How do I feel about "vb6 types" whatever that is.

    [EDIT]


    Also take note of szlamany's attitude. Notice that VB.Net fell short for him in a certain regard and instead of populating the forums with these ridiculous bring back VB6 threads, he opted to use another tech that met his requirements. That is how a professional does things. They don't cry and moan, they act.
    Last edited by Niya; Jul 19th, 2014 at 04:39 PM.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena

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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  7. #47

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    Re: What if there was a NEW vb6

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    Why are you asking me? You really expect me to know the answer to that ?



    Really ? How do I feel about "vb6 types" whatever that is.

    [EDIT]


    Also take note of szlamany's attitude. Notice that VB.Net fell short for him in a certain regard and instead of populating the forums with these ridiculous bring back VB6 threads, he opted to use another tech that met his requirements. That is how a professional does things. They don't cry and moan, they act.
    I actually have a very control heavy app, What i thought jit means and the reason i dont like it is, if i press a button for the first time, it compiles, and that delays the intended action, which is not acceptable. Im sure there is a work around though?
    Maybe press all buttons on start up, but that slows start up...

    Also code security is very important to me, and from what i have seen it is much easier to de-compile a .net app even if it is obfuscated, rather than a native app.

    Sorry , i can understand your frustration with me.

    I will try to limit post on this forum.

  8. #48
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: What if there was a NEW vb6

    Quote Originally Posted by axisdj View Post
    I actually have a very control heavy app, What i thought jit means and the reason i dont like it is, if i press a button for the first time, it compiles, and that delays the intended action, which is not acceptable.
    Yes, every method is only compiled when its first called but have you tested it to see just how much of a hit you took ? As a matter of fact, lets find out. I'm going to knock together an app just to test this very thing and you can be the judge of the results.

    Quote Originally Posted by axisdj View Post
    Also code security is very important to me, and from what i have seen it is much easier to de-compile a .net app even if it is obfuscated, rather than a native app.
    No argument there. Its actually one of my only few gripes with MSIL bytecode.

    Quote Originally Posted by axisdj View Post
    Sorry , i can understand your frustration with me.
    My frustration is with you mouthing off untrue things. Attitudes like yours might very well discourage people from trying out VB.Net or C# which is a disservice. Being that I have used both VB6 and VB.Net I can speak with authority that VB.Net is nowhere near as bad as you guys make it out to be nor is it inferior to VB6, far from it. Someone reading your words might be persuaded by them. This is why I took as long to move away from VB6 as I did, it was because of reading words like yours and I could have benefited if someone had told me the truth which is why I'm so adamant about my views on this topic. I hate that I allowed myself to be swayed by the unwarranted prejudice of fools.

    Quote Originally Posted by axisdj View Post
    I will try to limit post on this forum.
    I have no desire to silence you despite what you say. Fatina and Carlos Rocha, maybe...those two are just ridiculous but you're a lot more reasonable then they are.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  9. #49
    MS SQL Powerposter szlamany's Avatar
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    Re: What if there was a NEW vb6

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    Anyways, axisdj's last post wasn't about controls. He seemed to be saying that he isn't sure that the .Net runtime can execute hundreds of function calls per second which of course is ridiculous.
    Actually from what I am hearing him say it is all about controls.

    In VB6 if you had a hundred sensors and feeders for lights you would setup a control for each one. That's just not the .Net way to do things - those "elements" should have a GUI reference for DISPLAY and a single PATH for control - that can be shared among all "elements".

    Regardless- check out this link. The GC is your worse enemy - not JIT...

    http://stackoverflow.com/questions/8...et-application

    Also - check out this - it might mean you can JIT once in advance

    http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/magazine/cc163610.aspx

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    TOAD, the Oracle tool from Quest/Dell was written in Delphi.

    They say there here too: TOAD Setup and Configuration
    Interesting - I've used TOAD a lot and saw it look WinForm like and also felt that it was not a MS native app. I've also noticed that Sony Vegas is kind of like that (although they use MS SQL Express for storing all your "edit" points and video libraries).

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  10. #50
    PowerPoster Nightwalker83's Avatar
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    Re: What if there was a NEW vb6

    Maybe Microsoft SHOULD put all that VB6 stuff they included in the 2002 version of Visual Studios back in the next version of Visual Studios just to appease the VB6 crowd.
    when you quote a post could you please do it via the "Reply With Quote" button or if it multiple post click the "''+" button then "Reply With Quote" button.
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  11. #51
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: What if there was a NEW vb6

    Quote Originally Posted by axisdj View Post
    Ok. Again if .net is so wonderful why are none of my competitors using it? They are mostly using QT win32?

    Anyway i know how you feel about us vb6 types.

    Wp
    You could just as easily ask: If VB6 is so wonderful, why are none of your competitors using it? Since you feel that VB6 is clearly adequate, then all of your competitors must be wrong. If they are wrong about VB6, why couldn't they be wrong about other things?
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  12. #52
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: What if there was a NEW vb6

    Quote Originally Posted by szlamany View Post
    In VB6 if you had a hundred sensors and feeders for lights you would setup a control for each one. That's just not the .Net way to do things - those "elements" should have a GUI reference for DISPLAY and a single PATH for control - that can be shared among all "elements".
    I re-read this like 20 times and I'm still not sure what you're trying to say here lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    You could just as easily ask: If VB6 is so wonderful, why are none of your competitors using it? Since you feel that VB6 is clearly adequate, then all of your competitors must be wrong. If they are wrong about VB6, why couldn't they be wrong about other things?
    I was wondering this myself.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  13. #53
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: What if there was a NEW vb6

    Quote Originally Posted by szlamany View Post
    The GC is your worse enemy - not JIT...
    You know I've always wondered about this. There are tonnes of articles and forum posts on the internet that talk about the GC kicking in at bad times thereby causing jitter yet, I've not encountered any situation in my own development where this has happened. I eventually made an app to brute force it and after allocating an unrealistic amount of objects I did notice a slight jitter when I called GC.Collect. I concluded that in a typical app GC is not really an issue.

    That being said, if your app needs to be able to respond in real time then it really shouldn't be executing in a managed environment so it makes some sense why axisdj is upset about MS abandoning VB6 which produced native code without the effects of the GC and JIT compilation. However, this doesn't make his position any more valid as its kinda like asking MS to continue VB6 just for the sake of people who are writing time sensitive code. People wrote all manner of apps in VB6, many of which VB.Net can also be used to author. Why should all those people be denied a better tool to please a small niche of developers who are doing things they probably shouldn't even be doing in the first place.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  14. #54
    MS SQL Powerposter szlamany's Avatar
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    Re: What if there was a NEW vb6

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    I re-read this like 20 times and I'm still not sure what you're trying to say here lol
    I was suggesting that the "display" of controls should be lightweight (knowing of the .Net control bloat) and then morph the same "action and event" logic over each "display" element. That way JIT compile of event functions is no longer relevant.

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  15. #55
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: What if there was a NEW vb6

    Ah. I understand now.

    I won't speculate about the impact of the JIT in this scenario since I've no experience with real-time necessities that comes with interacting with certain types of hardware. In my own experience playing around with hardware, latency was never really and issue. Nonetheless, in the past when I needed high level performance, I've always resorted to C++ but these scenarios weren't hardware related. Mostly string and image processing. VB6 as thin as it was still had way too many abstractions that hindered performance of certain types of algorithms.
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena

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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  16. #56
    MS SQL Powerposter szlamany's Avatar
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    Re: What if there was a NEW vb6

    I totally agree with those statements...

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  17. #57

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    Re: What if there was a NEW vb6

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker View Post
    You could just as easily ask: If VB6 is so wonderful, why are none of your competitors using it? Since you feel that VB6 is clearly adequate, then all of your competitors must be wrong. If they are wrong about VB6, why couldn't they be wrong about other things?
    Many of them did start with vb6, but have now moved to QT or Visual C++.

    I think the main reason is that they are MUCH larger companies with many programmers and larger budgets. I feel I kind of cheated by using vb6, but in the end my vb6 code still compiles to native exe, in a very similar way that vc++ project does(I know there is a runtime needed... but so does c++). That is what makes vb6 so great, it saves time of development, gives you the power you need to compete with vc++ generated apps, with same code security as vc++ and in my opinion very close to the same performance.

    The only reason I am so passionate about vb6, is that my codebase took years to mature to what it is today, and I just can't sit by, rewrite the whole thing and end up with un-secured source, with possibly slower performance.

    I am sorry it bothers some of you that I am so persistent about this, but I have never failed at a goal I have set, and my goal is to organize some way to use my existing code and have it be compiled by something else. I love challenges and this is a big one. It will happen, sooner or later. People have told me all my life that can't be done.. or that does not make sense.. and I always accomplish the goal I set out to do.

    I will continue to formulate a crowd-funding solution. I have several possible options right now, and waiting on more details for all those options. I will soon create a forum for this new project. It will be a central meeting place to find out about what the options are and how to move forward to the ultimate goal of a vb6 replacement.

    Peace

  18. #58
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: What if there was a NEW vb6

    Quote Originally Posted by axisdj View Post
    I will continue to formulate a crowd-funding solution. I have several possible options right now, and waiting on more details for all those options. I will soon create a forum for this new project. It will be a central meeting place to find out about what the options are and how to move forward to the ultimate goal of a vb6 replacement.

    Peace
    Good luck mate

    I wish you success in this endeavor.
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    Copy/move files using Windows Shell | I'm not wanted

    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  19. #59
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: What if there was a NEW vb6

    I disagree with the whole code security aspect, but I've already stated my objections to that view and don't see any point in doing so again. VB6 and VB.NET are both great languages when it comes to putting out working programs in short order, which is why I have used both for writing apps over the last (nearly) two decades. I suspect that the reason your competitors went with C++ over VB has very little to do with the quality of C++ and more to do with a persistent view of VB as a toy language, especially among C++ developers. That's their loss. The point is that you can't use your competitors choices as some indication that .NET isn't viable, because they also rejected a language that you know, first hand, IS viable. Therefore, their actions are no indication of wisdom.

    I can understand why you would want to stick with a code base that took years to develop. I'd like to believe that what I write today will be viable in a decade. Perhaps it will be. However, others suggest that the desktop itself, and possibly MS, won't be around in a decades, and they may be right. We simply can't count on the world remaining static. I'd love to know what technology will work on the systems of today as well as the systems of tomorrow, but I don't. We had the luxury of living/working in a window of time when the OS of one company dominated a relatively homogenous hardware platform. That allowed us the luxury of targeting one system with the confidence that it would remain dominant/viable for a long time. I don't believe that time is over just yet, but plenty of other people feel that it is drawing to a close. If we really see the demise of the desktop, we will be back to a world where you may have to pick a platform, or go web-based. It's not a world I look forward to, as I'm old enough to remember when it wasn't enough to find a program that you liked, you also had to determine whether it even ran on the hardware you were using.

    Developers would prefer that their programs reached the widest possible audience. That would require a homogenous platform, or great cross-platform performance. Since the latter has been promised since the early 90's, and has never really been realized, and the former seems to be fading away, we may not get what we'd like.
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  20. #60
    MS SQL Powerposter szlamany's Avatar
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    Re: What if there was a NEW vb6

    At least we get to eat steak...

    Oh - that's the other thread

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  21. #61
    PowerPoster dilettante's Avatar
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    Re: What if there was a NEW vb6

    While it can be a lot of work and pain you can hedge your bets and try to develop skills using several tools. No programming tool is best at everything, and some can take you where others cannot.

  22. #62
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
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    Re: What if there was a NEW vb6

    No programming tool is best at everything
    That's one of the wisest things that's being said in this discussion. "What's the right replacementfor VB6" is absolutely the wrong question because there is no "right replacement". There are just a bunch of tools available to carry out a bunch of possible tasks. Identify the task(s) you need to complete, pick the tool(s) that seems best to carry it out and don't allow that decision to be coloured by some miss-placed resentment of the fact that the world moved on before you were ready.
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  23. #63
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    Re: What if there was a NEW vb6

    Lets hope this project gets some momentum and is a sucess:

    http://vbvs.cloudapp.net/

    The ability to maintain legacy VB6 code in today's modern Visual Studio IDE is all most of us Classic VB6 developers really need and would go a long way to to silencing the calls to bring back VB6. I wouldn't be suprised if the guys in Redmond were actualy behind this!

  24. #64
    PowerPoster dilettante's Avatar
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    Re: What if there was a NEW vb6

    I don't think is has anything to do with Microsoft. It reeks of "3rd party."

    The IDE is the least of what most people need in terms of modernization. Think about things like better native icon support, native GDI+ support, unsigned data types, manifest generation, a new C2.exe code generator, etc.

    Beyond that a lot could be done simply through some new libraries, but 3rd parties do pretty well there as long as you're willing to spend some money.

  25. #65
    Frenzied Member Gruff's Avatar
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    Re: What if there was a NEW vb6

    Following the "get tools" link it looks like the same product cited in some earlier posts. (I could be wrong of course.)

    As a VB.NET extension it will not be usable in the free express version of VB.NET which means users would have to shell out for Visual Studio NET. I don't know how many would want to do that for VB6.

    In addition to that I agree with you dilettante. If your not going to change anything else why not continue to use the old IDE.
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  26. #66
    Super Moderator Shaggy Hiker's Avatar
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    Re: What if there was a NEW vb6

    Well, it's mighty hard to buy VB6, at the moment, so if it worked, there'd probably be some market.
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  27. #67
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: What if there was a NEW vb6

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    The IDE is the least of what most people need in terms of modernization. Think about things like better native icon support, native GDI+ support, unsigned data types, manifest generation, a new C2.exe code generator, etc.
    Its funny because VB.Net has all of these things which makes me wonder: why haven't you guys moved there if these are the things you need ? This is why the gripe in VB6 vs VB.Net threads make no sense to me. You say you want these things and when you get them, you still complain
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

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  28. #68
    PowerPoster dilettante's Avatar
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    Re: What if there was a NEW vb6

    Here we go around the circle again. VB.Net does not give you those things. It is an entirely unrelated language that brings its own baggage.

    If anyone wants to make a break like that they can do so. Or they can do the same thing but move to something offering you more in exchange for the pain. A move to a JVM language makes more sense because it gains you portability in an age where Windows has a murky future.

  29. #69
    PowerPoster Nightwalker83's Avatar
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    Re: What if there was a NEW vb6

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    Here we go around the circle again. VB.Net does not give you those things. It is an entirely unrelated language that brings its own baggage.
    That is why I am trying to make the jump from VB6 directly to C# because those two languages are in no way related there is no of this trying to use the wrong version of the language in the wrong framework, etc.
    when you quote a post could you please do it via the "Reply With Quote" button or if it multiple post click the "''+" button then "Reply With Quote" button.
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  30. #70
    PowerPoster dilettante's Avatar
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    Re: What if there was a NEW vb6

    As far as I know Microsoft mutates C# even faster than VB.Net, so I'm not sure how that gets you out of the churn cycle problem.

  31. #71
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: What if there was a NEW vb6

    Quote Originally Posted by dilettante View Post
    VB.Net does not give you those things.
    Well if you want to get technical, it's more accurate to say the .Net Framework gives you these things, which you can use from VB.Net.
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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  32. #72
    MS SQL Powerposter szlamany's Avatar
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    Re: What if there was a NEW vb6

    Getting into a word-use debate with Dill? Cray cray!

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  33. #73
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: What if there was a NEW vb6

    Quote Originally Posted by szlamany View Post
    Getting into a word-use debate with Dill? Cray cray!
    God help me!
    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena

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    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  34. #74
    PowerPoster techgnome's Avatar
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    Re: What if there was a NEW vb6

    Quote Originally Posted by Niya View Post
    God help me!
    Pfffft! I think we're all beyond help from any deity.

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  35. #75
    Hyperactive Member Maven's Avatar
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    Re: What if there was a NEW vb6

    Quote Originally Posted by axisdj View Post
    What are your thoughts?

    Thanks
    WP
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  36. #76
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
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    Re: What if there was a NEW vb6

    It seems relevant to point out that there seems to be a "VB6 Migration" ad running on the forum. Sadly I only spotted it as I navigated away from a page and now it doesn't seem to want to come back but if you refresh a page a few times I guess you're likely to see it.

    And no, this isn't a prank to see how long I can get Axisdj to sit furiously hitting the refesh button but, damn, I wish I'd though of that
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  37. #77
    Angel of Code Niya's Avatar
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    Re: What if there was a NEW vb6

    Quote Originally Posted by FunkyDexter View Post
    It seems relevant to point out that there seems to be a "VB6 Migration" ad running on the forum. Sadly I only spotted it as I navigated away from a page and now it doesn't seem to want to come back but if you refresh a page a few times I guess you're likely to see it.

    And no, this isn't a prank to see how long I can get Axisdj to sit furiously hitting the refesh button but, damn, I wish I'd though of that


    Treeview with NodeAdded/NodesRemoved events | BlinkLabel control | Calculate Permutations | Object Enums | ComboBox with centered items | .Net Internals article(not mine) | Wizard Control | Understanding Multi-Threading | Simple file compression | Demon Arena

    Copy/move files using Windows Shell | I'm not wanted

    C++ programmers will dismiss you as a cretinous simpleton for your inability to keep track of pointers chained 6 levels deep and Java programmers will pillory you for buying into the evils of Microsoft. Meanwhile C# programmers will get paid just a little bit more than you for writing exactly the same code and VB6 programmers will continue to whitter on about "footprints". - FunkyDexter

    There's just no reason to use garbage like InputBox. - jmcilhinney

    The threads I start are Niya and Olaf free zones. No arguing about the benefits of VB6 over .NET here please. Happiness must reign. - yereverluvinuncleber

  38. #78
    Super Moderator FunkyDexter's Avatar
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    Re: What if there was a NEW vb6

    Not really bait. If someone finally has come up with a decent migration tool (which would be more than MS managed) then it might alleviate a lot of the worries of the VB6ers. It would mean moving to .Net, which I know isn't the first choice for many of them, but at least it would provide a viable path forward.
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  39. #79
    Frenzied Member Gruff's Avatar
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    Re: What if there was a NEW vb6

    A migration tool for VB6 is complex by nature.

    Think about what you are asking it to do.
    To be 100% Accurate you would have to handle all the oddball ways VB6 code was written.
    No one wrote to a set standard. Work arounds abounded.

    Having re-written many vb6 apps in vb.net I believe there will always be situations where there is no direct translation.
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  40. #80
    MS SQL Powerposter szlamany's Avatar
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    Re: What if there was a NEW vb6

    I have the perfect migration tool for VB6.

    Buy Vb.Net



















    learn it














    get smarter









    stop whining!!!






    and JUST convert your code already!

    Or wait and convert it to an Android app

    Honestly if I look back over my 35 year career I've had a dozen languages and several hardware platforms go out of favor. Seems like crying about VB6 now would be like me saying "where is my PDP-11 Basic" when I need it!

    At least you have the same hardware to play with - for the moment at least!

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