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Thread: getting a job

  1. #1

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    How much knowledge is required to be hired as a entry level junior programmer.

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    it depends what occupation you want, if its in the data capture industry, then absolutely nothing at all. the last place i worked at employed chimpanzees to program both VB and unix, but I dont hold grudges! (grrr). Seriously though, i would suggest that you apply to as many places as possible, youll find that quite a few places will fund formal VB training, or teach you in house how to do it.

    Im looking for a job too, if anyone's interested. (im gonna stop advertising myself now!)

    A.N.W.
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  3. #3
    So Unbanned DiGiTaIErRoR's Avatar
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    You probably won't get a job with VB because there isn't a demand for it because the EXE's are large and slow rather then C++ exe's are smaller and faster.

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    I disagree with that DiGiTaIErRoR. In the UK the demand for Visual Basic programmers is growing as Visual Basic becomes more popular. After I do a programming course I'm looking to get a Visual Basic programming job.

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    I live in Massachusetts (USA) and as a VB programmer you will find a job everywhere. You will not find VB job in company that makes programs for large number of people, but company that makes programs for individual person (company) will hire you without any problems. VB is faster than C++ and it really counts.

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    [This message has been edited by QWERTY (edited 01-29-2000).]

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    It is a source of endless astonishment to me, that Digitalerror can keep spewing forth these posts that are blatantly wrong. At least he offers some explanation for it, that "quote" for example!

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    Thanks for the encouragement I'm learning more everyday. I'm in LA so i know i'm up against a lot of competition but the kids I go to college with(i'm 40) seem like they don't care to learn. Maybe that's an atvantage for me.

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    I would have to dissagree with DigitalError. VB is a very popular tool and a lot of companies are using it right now. Even though companies are pretty rich, they still trying to save money on development. C++ programmers worth little more then VB. For database application most companies will still choose VB as a development tool, because they can develop it a lot faster, thus make money faster.

    Plus, there are a lot more issues about choosing VB over C++, but that another topic.

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    Please elaborate Serge. I am interested to know what decisions a professional may make about using one over the other.

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    I dont actually know from fact, but I'd guess demand for VB programmers is increasing, as companies want good apps, fast. (and make money )
    c++ is still the choice for games and low-level programs, obviously, but with the web becomming more & more important, so is VB. Vb is great for web and database development, which go together well.

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    Hyperactive Member Al Smith's Avatar
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    Hi,
    If you want a job programming games or creating a program that makes a machine do something, then you'd better learn C++. Most engineers use C++.
    If you want to write programs to supply information to users, e.g. IT or MIS, than VB is the way to go.
    Al.



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    Hyperactive Member Al Smith's Avatar
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    Hi again,
    It just occured to me that we didn't answer bjerring's question:
    How much knowledge is required to be hired as a entry level junior programmer.
    Knowing how to create a good looking form (User Interface) is a plus. I Just learned how to do this from suggestions from this site.
    Knowing how to pull data from a database and displaying it in the form is a plus.
    Also I find that most managers would rather have their information in a spreadsheet rather then on paper so knowing how to put the data into Excel is a plus.
    Al.



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  13. #13
    So Unbanned DiGiTaIErRoR's Avatar
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    VB is NOT faster then C++. C++ is smaller plus doesn't need those damn VB run-time files. Know your own programming language. VB is popular yes because any idiot can program in it. C++ is much more complicated. VB is simple and ya know what:
    • C++ is made in C++.
    • VB is made is C++.

    Don't you think if VB was better and faster then C++ that it would be made in VB? Of course an even harder language would be ASM and that is of course an even faster language. Then there's hex and binary.

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    Wow, great comment for a VB board and I quote, "VB is popular yes because any idiot can program in it"

    ...hmmm VB faster than C++? that's a trick question. I guarantee that I can build an application faster in VB than in C++. Will it run faster in C++? there's a high probability that it might run faster in C++. Is it worth spending the extra time? Well, that's probably not up to you(i.e. the programmer) and if it is then the project will dictate which is the better choice.

    Back to the quote, "VB is popular yes because any idiot can program in it"...this one is really interesting. If i were to make the mistake of posting something as "not intelligent" as that I would rewrite the phrase like this, "VB is popular because any idiot can create an idiot program in it."

    VB simple? I think if you want to make a non-scalable, non-production quality, worthless piece of crap program then you're correct. It IS simple to create those in VB. But that does not make VB simple. Ever visited vbaccelerator.com? how 'bout vbnet? or a slew of other sites that have immensly complicated and extremely advanced code that I'd be willing to bet even the best 'experts' on this forum would have trouble understanding.

    One reason VB is popular because it is easy to maintain(so long as it was written well from the start), much easier than the 'complicated' C++(no matter how well it was written is hard to maintain). Is VB better than C++? that TOTALLY depends on the project. PERIOD.

    Here's a good example of C++ vs. VB:
    Currently we have a vb com object that needs to be running all of the time on an NT Server. The VB COM object was developed quickly and easily and works exactly how we need it to, except that we need it to run all of the time at our client's offices, 24/7/365. So we used the code from the MSKB to convert our vb COM dll into an NT service. Results: crash and burn, vb just does not do NT Services well(it can be done, just not well). Resolution: Used VC++ to create a service(library) that calls the VB COM dll 24/7/365 and it works perfectly(so far). The bottom line is, we had time constraints and requirements and we let the environment choose the better language per task. Could our dll be written better in C++? maybe, even probably, but it wouldn't have been completed in the amount of time given.

    'complicated' absolutely does not mean 'better'

    ...fyi, there's a HUGE demand for 'good+' VB programmers; just remember the 'good+' part.

    [This message has been edited by pvb (edited 01-31-2000).]

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    I agree. There are a lot of VB programmers out there and, yes, DigitalError, anyone can learn VB.....BUT.....Companies are not looking for VB only programmers.
    Initially, VB was created to develop database applications, therefore, you have to be very good with datbases (SQL Server, Oracle, Sybase etc). Also, they looking for Web developers (Java, ASP etc). If you use ASP, then you would essentially use VBScript, which is striped off version of VB (but you still have to know it, right?)

    Resolution: Knowing only VB and Database development, still can get you a job very quickly. So, don't bury VB just yet.


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    [This message has been edited by Serge (edited 01-31-2000).]

  16. #16
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    Well said, pvb.

    There's a HELL of a lot more to VB than what you can learn in one college course.

    It's sad, but I think most people STILL have no concept of COM. VB gets a bad rap because there are too many VB 'programmers' (and I use that term loosely) who can do little more than drag a few controls onto a form and link them up with crappy, monolithic code.

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    Every programming language has its strenghts and its flaws, just like anything else. But if you want to get a JOB, then just learn how to use EVERY(Well, most) of them !
    That's how you'll get efficient...

  18. #18
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    You all make some really good points.

    But, in my humble opinion.. heheh... from experience, I can also say that VB is a VERY good way to get a job. And quick. The strange part about it though, is that anyone can pick up VB. So why is everyone not getting a job? Well, it's because of what is meantioned above... Web Page Designing. It's moved to a whole new level with MS Sheets and VJ++ 6 as well as DHTML. That is the way jobs are heading. And, as a J++ user, I can get a job faster if I know IT instead of VB. Why? Cuzz of the Internet capabilites that it has as well as being able to tie into Databases. VB is not really for the Internet. Someone on a message above meantione what it's for, and they are absolutly correct, it's for database integration mostly. Oh sure, you can do some fancy things with it. Don't get me wrong. I love VB6. But, it's very sloppy. J++ however has the same interface, and it's small. AND, it can also make EXEs, SCRIPS, APPLETS as well as a few other little goodies.. heheh..

    So, bottom line... If you want different, and are tired of the compitition of VB Programmers in this world.. then go where the Jobs are.. Learn J++. It's the wave for the next 4 or 5 years.. especially now with J2 that was just recently released... heh



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  19. #19
    Lively Member FirstKnight's Avatar
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    Well it seems to me that it would depend on where you live. I live in South Africa and here VB is very hot. As for what you can do with it, the answer is quite a lot IF you know how. VB allows you to make calls to the Windows API, the Internet API, heck just about any API you can think of.(by that i mean dll's) I can write a program in VB that can open a gate or a door after your fingerprint has been verified. As a matter of fact i did write such a program My point is, VB is very flexible because it is limitless because it allows you to make calls to external libraries. As for it being slower than C++, It might be but I'm sure we will see an improvement soon.

    Oh yes. DiGiTaLeRrOr, I think you are a snob. Just because YOU know C++ and are so proud of the fact that it takes you six moths to create a decent program, does not meen the rest of the world have to be so stupid.

    One more thing. If VB is so bad then why is it part of the Microsoft Certified System Developer's course?

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  20. #20
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    I just had to weigh in on this subject. First I agree with almost everything written on this topic (except for that written by DigitalError). I've been programming in VB for over 5 years (started with VB3). I've seen the language mature and get better over that time.

    Fast is a relative term, if fact most programs spend more time waiting for a user to respond then it does processing. Also much time is spent retreiving information from database (I would doubt C++ is going to perform this action faster). To test this theory I have compiled some of my applications using the native code compiler in VB. I've found that they don't get much faster but that do get much larger. All in all if your application does'nt do a lot of computational type alogorithms native VB code is just as good as C++.

    Regarding bjeeing comments regarding his age and the age of his costudents. I teach beginning and intermediate level VB at a local technical college and I have found that is usually the older non-traditional students that are more willing to learn and apply what they learn. The more traditional students still seem to be caught in the high school mentality.

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    I program in VB and C++ (not just one and assume about the other) and to be honest a lot of tasks are the same performance-wise. especially in GUI programming.

    The main thing I like about C++ is the free threading (for NT services), full object oriented abilities and static linking (stand alone exe's) I've managed as good speeds in VB for file I/O, and suprisingly, math! since the native code. VB is often faster than Borland C++ because BCB4 is no properly optermised for pentium pro's (CV++ 6 is quick though)

    As far as productivity goes though VB Kicks, not sure I'd like to see a program in VB but for internal software design... there is no competition.

    (But if Borland Builder 4 had decent DB access and optermised of 686 properly (they even admit they stuffed it) then I'd use it heaps more, the native API, objects and GUI speed are great)

    I could go on for hours... and I will :-) The RTF cotrol in VB is newer and faster than borland too.

    The reason I compare to Borland is that VC++ is NOT visual, it doesn't include RAD in any real sense of the word. BCB4 is MUCH MUCH easier to use, just some od the pascall infulence is annoying and the DB access is RUBBISH, (Check this out before you buy it, if you're a DB programmer stick with VB)

    ... and he lived happily ever after !

  22. #22
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    VB is

    but C++ makes me

    VB IS BETTER FOR MY NEEDS!



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  23. #23
    Hyperactive Member PITBULLCJR's Avatar
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    I have been looking for a programming job here in New York near Albany. I haven't been able to find one yet that uses vb I wish I could find one because i would aply right away does anyone know of anyone who is hiring in this area?

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