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  1. Re: [twinBASIC] Bitwise Manipulations : VOTING OPEN UNTIL 3rd JAN

    Thanks @Shaggy Hiker, that's good to know.

    At the moment, polls are being held on the developer's GitHub repo. I didn't want to break any rules by linking to external discussion sites, but as I'm...
  2. [twinBASIC] Bitwise Manipulations : VOTING OPEN UNTIL 3rd JAN

    Voting is now open on whether to allow LShift \ RShift as aliases for << and >> respectively.

    The voting options are:


    IN FAVOUR OF adding LShift and RShift to the language, as alternatives...
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    Re: VB6 Web Site/App Server

    Thanks jpbro, great to see a real world experience of porting to twinBASIC. Note that AppObject support is still in progress - see https://github.com/WaynePhillipsEA/twinbasic/issues/143. Also,...
  4. Thread: TwinBasic

    by mansellan
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    Re: TwinBasic

    LeftShift
    LShift
    LeftS
    Shl

    None of these things are as readable to me as <<. And probably 99% of programmers out there.

    These operators are _ubiquitous_. Nearly every other language out...
  5. Thread: TwinBasic

    by mansellan
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    Re: TwinBasic

    That's understandable. Microsoft _did_ abandon VB6 for VB.Net, no question.

    But now there's a way forward. 64-bit. Cross-platform without a VM. It's frankly incredible. But we're arguing over...
  6. Thread: TwinBasic

    by mansellan
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    Re: TwinBasic

    @Shaggy Hiker,

    You've mentioned a few times that this thread is getting lenghty. Would you mind if I start reposting twinBASIC language proposals in this forum as new threads, prefixed with...
  7. Thread: TwinBasic

    by mansellan
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    Re: TwinBasic

    @baka, @Eduardo, you both seem very angry, and I'm not sure why.

    But I think I need to stop now.
  8. Thread: TwinBasic

    by mansellan
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    Re: TwinBasic

    These operators were actually added before twinBASIC reached alpha (and before there was a repo to discuss such things). I'm sure it never even occurred to Wayne that they could be controversial,...
  9. Thread: TwinBasic

    by mansellan
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    Re: TwinBasic

    Well you could look to what FreeBASIC has for operators: it uses Shl and Shr. But then again, it has +=, ^=, And= Shr=, so... maybe not lol.

    Not my call, but I can't see these new operators being...
  10. Thread: TwinBasic

    by mansellan
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    Re: TwinBasic

    So I did actually propose this, way back in the day. To me, prefix vs postfix seems entirely logical. But I accept it may not be a natural fit for BASIC.
  11. Thread: TwinBasic

    by mansellan
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    Re: TwinBasic

    Might be a NA thing. Never saw assignments in high school in the UK.
  12. Thread: TwinBasic

    by mansellan
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    Re: TwinBasic

    Um, I think you just proved my point? The math they teach at (high) school is equations. Not assignments.

    Have you seen the symbols used in higher math? I couldn't begin to understand them. You...
  13. Thread: TwinBasic

    by mansellan
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    Re: TwinBasic

    Yep.
  14. Thread: TwinBasic

    by mansellan
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    872,171

    Re: TwinBasic

    a = 1
    a = b
    a = 3
    a = b + 1
    a++

    FTFY

    (and indeed, static analysis tools would have fixed all of these)
  15. Thread: TwinBasic

    by mansellan
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    Re: TwinBasic

    Careful... Async/Await is very, very tricky. It pretty much rewrites your code into Begin/End methods. If it finds it needs to do that inside a loop, it has to write an entire state machine for you...
  16. Thread: TwinBasic

    by mansellan
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    Re: TwinBasic

    I absolutely get that. I've been in the C# world for nearly 2 decades now, but I got my start in VBA, and then VB6.

    I understand the BASIC ethos. The B stands for beginner after all - "Make it...
  17. Thread: TwinBasic

    by mansellan
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    1,809
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    872,171

    Re: TwinBasic

    @baka

    That's my hope too. VB6, but better.

    1. 64-bit compilation
    2. Faster execution
    3. Cross platform
    4. Language improvements

    It seems that the only one of these that's causing concern...
  18. Thread: TwinBasic

    by mansellan
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    872,171

    Re: TwinBasic

    I'm new here. There's clearly some history to these interactions, so I'll just call it as I see it.

    Classic VB was abandoned by Microsoft. That's the only language they did that to. C# was a new...
  19. Thread: TwinBasic

    by mansellan
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    1,809
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    872,171

    Re: TwinBasic

    I really would never have imagined that supporting a universally-known operator could be so controversial until I found VBF...
  20. Thread: TwinBasic

    by mansellan
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    Re: TwinBasic

    Just to reiterate:

    FreeBASIC and VB.Net have both done this. Hell, classic VB would have if it had survived. There really isn't an argument that it's not BASIC-ish that I can see.
  21. Thread: TwinBasic

    by mansellan
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    1,809
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    872,171

    Re: TwinBasic

    That's really unfair. The debates I've seen have been pretty free ranging and ego free. If you have a killer point to make, it'll get traction. But at the end of the day "I like what I'm used to" is...
  22. Thread: TwinBasic

    by mansellan
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    1,809
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    872,171

    Re: TwinBasic

    That's fair enough.

    As someone who has to learn big paradigm shifts every 12 months with C# (and huge reams of "magic" being undertaken by the compiler - it literally rewrites your code when you...
  23. Thread: TwinBasic

    by mansellan
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    1,809
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    872,171

    Re: TwinBasic

    Eduardo, if you want the modify-and-assign syntax that has been implemented in twinBASIC to be removed (replaced?), then you are most welcome to propose that on the GH repo. It would get labelled as...
  24. Thread: TwinBasic

    by mansellan
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    1,809
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    872,171

    Re: TwinBasic

    Sorry Eduardo, I'm just not seeing it. When you come to a new language, either as a newcomer or from another language, there are some things to learn. The process for add-and-assign would be:

    1....
  25. Thread: TwinBasic

    by mansellan
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    1,809
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    872,171

    Re: TwinBasic

    Actually, this is kind of an issue with C# - it evolves. Constantly. If I were to look at a non-trivial C# 1 application, it would look almost unreadable to me.

    The downside is that C# now has a...
  26. Thread: TwinBasic

    by mansellan
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    1,809
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    872,171

    Re: TwinBasic

    That's a very bold assertion. Why would somebody with zero programming experience choose a language that's currently pretty obscure, and likely to remain so for quite a while?

    If I were to guess,...
  27. Thread: TwinBasic

    by mansellan
    Replies
    1,809
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    872,171

    Re: TwinBasic

    If it's because it's not human-readable, well... no programming language is entirely intuitive. For modify-and-assign, understanding would take a quick Google search, hitting results from pretty much...
  28. Thread: TwinBasic

    by mansellan
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    1,809
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    Re: TwinBasic

    Didn't say that. I just said that it's ubiquitous. And thus will likely be expected by a traveler from another language. That's a benefit.

    What's the cost? You just don't like the way it looks?
  29. Thread: TwinBasic

    by mansellan
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    1,809
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    872,171

    Re: TwinBasic

    I find that syntax really unpleasant (it would probably also be a nightmare to parse in all the settings expressions can exist). Why reinvent the wheel? += (and all its many kin) are ubiquitous, not...
  30. Thread: TwinBasic

    by mansellan
    Replies
    1,809
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    872,171

    Re: TwinBasic

    Entirely agree. I've mentioned twinBASIC a few times at work (we're a C# shop), and the reply I invariably get is "For the love of $deity, WHY? VB6 died 20 years ago..." Of course I don't agree with...
  31. Re: VB6 QUESTION: LSP server implementation for VB6

    Heh, I did try
  32. Re: VB6 QUESTION: LSP server implementation for VB6

    Bringing this back to the question asked in the OP...

    LSP can't be retrofitted to the VB6 compiler. LSP is just just a protocol, a way to expose language comprehension in a standardised format to...
  33. Thread: TwinBasic

    by mansellan
    Replies
    1,809
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    872,171

    Re: TwinBasic

    Heh, that's almost exactly what MS did with the Net Core transition...

    (net framework (net standard) net core)

    Net standard was just a bridge. As soon as enough people crossed it, they burned...
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    Re: Extending VB6

    If starting from a blank slate, I'd agree with you. But there are a lot of open source components that cut out huge swathes of the problem. Before Eclipse Theia was considered, i was very much...
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    Re: Extending VB6

    That's kinda what I was getting at though. It's FAR easier to make an IDE that connects to an existing compiler and debugger, than it is to add a new (backwards-compatible) compiler and debugger to...
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    Re: Extending VB6

    Disclaimer: I'm a big fan of twinBASIC, and an early subscriber.

    I'm not surprised that Win11 runs VB6, it's basically Win10 21H2 but hijacked by the marketing department. It works because there's...
  37. Thread: TwinBasic

    by mansellan
    Replies
    1,809
    Views
    872,171

    Re: TwinBasic

    "Better" is always subjective. Is VB.Net, the language "better" than VB6? It depends... VB.Net - the language - is objectively more advanced. It has a unified type system, generics, overloads,...
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    Re: https://www.radbasic.dev/

    Keen to hear reviews of the private Alpha from paid members. I will likely wait for the public Alpha.
  39. Re: Another vb alternative Mercury? not 100% compatible but still!

    I loved (and still love) VB6, but was forced to make the jump to .Net 15 years ago (damn, that makes me feel old!). The differences between VB.Net and C# are trivial compared to the differences...
  40. Thread: TwinBasic

    by mansellan
    Replies
    1,809
    Views
    872,171

    Re: TwinBasic

    This is how .Net does it, and seems to me to be the least-friction way of doing it. For function-scoping, the existing VB6 syntax is exactly the same. If you want the new twinBASIC block-scoping,...
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