Wanna join an RPG Fantasy Simulation?

On this other board I frequent, we batted around the idea of making an RPG Fantasy Sim where each person would submit a text file (representing a character) to a program which I would make. It would then perform combat between all players and rank them from best to worst.

In order to submit an entry, I'd lay down the ground rules on this forum once I'm done and you'd spend "points" on your char's stats and equipment, trying to give your char the best winning combination. If anyone would be interested, please email me at...

[email protected]

...with a subject of RPG Sim or whatever. The reason I'm branching out to this forum as well is because I haven't gotten enough interest on the other forum to make it worth my while. (And if there aren't enough people, I won't bother creating it at all). And I thought maybe some here would be mildly interested, but if not, I understand.

It would be funner if you let people play each other instead of just simulating it.

I understand that, but the point (challenge) to myself is to make a simulator -- not an interactive game.

I see. Well, personally, as an RPG designer, it wouldn't be fun as text; could you at least have graphical animation of the characters fighting? Or have something where you drag and drop weapons onto characters, etc?

Yes, a "client program" which lets you drag stuff into your character instead of editing everything in a text file would be nice ;)

Actually, it'll be more of a battle simulator than anything else. It will pit every person against every other person multiple times, and after some type of tournament (double-elimination or count the # of win, etc.) it would rank the combatants from best to worst.

So there'd really be nothing to "see" since potentially hundreds or thousands of battles would take place. Best I would do would be a output file telling what happened with your fighter for each particular fight, but no one's going to read through hundreds of battles that there character fought in.

But for people to setup their char, you have a nice idea of making it graphical which I had thought of but then dismissed since I wanted to concentrate on the "server" portion. But if you'd like to jump in and do something like that for my portion, that'd be fine with me!

Sorry, I'm working on a massive RPG that will take me until Christmas 2003 (that's the scheduled release! honest!) so I can't really help you.

It can't be too hard, though...

Christmas 2003!? Is this for a commerical game where you'll make money? Or you're own personal enjoyment? If the latter, that's pretty die-hard!!

:) I am a diehard. But its commerical, yes.

Will the textfile be something like an artificial intelligence script or what is that going to be?

Basically, you'll be allocated X # of pts to spend on your char. For strength, dexterity, etc., and to buy weapons, armor, spells, etc. Class and race will give certain bonuses and/or disadvantages.

So you won't be able to create an AI for your char, but by spending your points in certain areas, you enhance certain abilities which in turn increase various random things, such as "chance to hit" or the amount of damage inflicted.

I haven't worked it all out yet since I currently don't have enough interest in participants, but if I ever do, then I'll work it all out.

I don't think it's a to great idea then, because I don't think you will find enough people here, because it's a little boring for most programmers just to distribute points, why don't you ask in some forum for paper-RPG (I haven't been to one, but I can't imagine it would be hard to find one).

One thing what would make your idea is very interesting is actually the simulater. It could be used by programmers (if open source) to balance their systems better by letting your simulator check if some items, spells, or character classes are to powerful or to weak.

I am not saying forget about your idea, I just think the second use would be much more interesting to the people here.

That's what I suspected, and I don't blame anyone. I posted the Sim idea on another VB Board, and several showed interest in possibly making their own moreso than playing it, which makes sense.

But if you like the Sim idea, you can take this idea for what it's worth: Someone mentioned making a skeleton class and then each player takes it and programs it, incorporating their own AI in regards to other players positions on a map grid. This would be cool since each player gets to code and give their character actual AI, but I'm not doing that cuz of time frames for myself, plus, I don't think many would actually take the time to program it, even if they wanted to.

Well as jotef sayz above it is much more fun to have a client app to create your char with. A few images here and there preferably the model of the char yur playing too.

In fact.. I think that if you dont and people have to edit a text file and then upload it that it will be quite boring after a while.

It's just kind of a one time thing -- an beginning experiment with creating a Sim. But who knows what it may evolve into. It'll be open source -- maybe someone else will add graphics down the road.

I think the concept itself is slightly flawed.

It wouldn't be an RPG as you wouldn't be playing a role. In RPG's the character race and class affects lots of other things than just combat (running, jumping, NPC interaction).

If it's merely a program to pit some people in a battle then the great big hulking walrus type thing is likely to win. Every time. The other races are unlikely to get a look it once people figure out which is best.

If you were actually creating an RPG then I'm sure there'd be a lot more support for it.

OK, OK, so it's a Battle Sim, not an RPG Sim -- my bad. But part of the challenge to myself is game balance, and to make it so the big hulking walrus doesn't always win. Special magical items, and allocating more spending points to magic users are my first thoughts.

And version 2 could become more RPG-like if it uses a map or randomly generated dungeon (taking terrain and stealth into account) rather than simply placing the units in an arena someday down the road. Maybe units could even level up as they win. Who knows? The whole thing's only limited by mine and others' imaginations.

However, I don't think that means the idea is flawed -- though I'll agree it may indeed make it less fun and/or interesting to others.

Don't mind them -- there will always be people that say any given game sucks. There's people that don't like Star Wars; and yet it was one of the most popular films of all time.

Yes I think it's a nice idea, but I think you would have MUCH more people participating if you have a graphical interface, even if there aren't any images. You know, with VB it's extremely easy to create this sort of stuff :)

Do you mean for the char creation portion? If so, consider it done. Anymore want to sign up now?

Cool!

If you could find someone that's good at making graphics, it would be nice to have it like this:

Code:

---


  o  | Here there's a list of stuff
--v-- | that you drag to your
 / \  | char (points, equipment...)

---

If I really wanted to get into that, I could just steal some graphics out there. But since this will more than likely be a one time deal (especially with the lack of participants, and I still need a few more for me to even bother doing this project at all) then graphics won't be incorporated.

BTW, nice ascii paper doll! :)

Doh! And here I thought it was a paper goblin...dang...

And an anorexic at that! :)

Hum if it was a woman I could use an 8 rotated 90º instead of the v :)

Clever! And if it was a dwarf, us a period for each of the legs. :)

Yeah :)

I'm starting a thread on ASCII people and stuff :)

Why doesn't someone start a calculator programming forum. That would rock.

If you will really make it open source it will be kind of cool I think since everyone could use the system once it is balanced and modify it to everyone's need. Well in case I get some sort of editor for the text file (which would assure you of having correct written textfiles, too) I would write one or two characters.

Join Times Of War :D

Hey don't do that Psy, that's not very modest.... Join Times of War

why not let people use their own graphics like the avatars then it isnt up to you to draw the graphics yourself?

So you'll try it out, /\/\isanThr0p?

Could you drop me a line at my email up top so I can keep you on the mailing list for this?

Techi -- I just saw your post -- wasn't trying to ignore you. All I'm really trying to do is make a Battle Simulator. Since the program will pool all the characters together and have them duke it out in hundreds or thousands of battles to determine who's the best, there's not really any reason for the graphics since all I'll do is post (and rank) the winners.

I suppose it'd be nice eye candy on the char creator portion, but since you'll never actually "see" your char participating in combat, I don't really see a reason for the graphics.

OK, everyone. So I've determined I'm making a GUI for the char creation portion. So that, plus the Battle Sim will take me hours, days, weeks. Creating a char will take you a few minutes. Are you SURE you don't have the time to help me out here? :(

depending in what language you are making it, I'm willing to help.

VB 6/Vb.Net and also pretty skilled with PHP and Mysql so you could make a site that ranks the stuff instead of typing it every week to a forum ;)

Also pretty skilled with photoshop =)

Greetz,

As long as its -very- easy and takes -no- time I'll do anything.

PHP -- MySQL -- Website -- Photoshop!? Quite a bit out of the scope I was thinking of! :)

But if you're serious about helping with some VB6 programming, I'll take it as there are some pieces I can break out and have someone else do seperately. And sorry to disappoint, but I'm just thinking "text files" at this point. :)

So can I assume you'll partipate too, since that'll be the easy part?

Gimme somthin to shoot.

I'm a webdesigner and programmer ;) - But if you post atleast what you WANT to make then atleast we dont get going on the wrong foot.

So enlighten us ;)

--

Actually, when I said, "Are you SURE you don't have the time to help me out here?" I was meaning won't more people volunteer just to participate in the game by creating a character when it's completed.

So feel free (both of you) to back out of the coding portion if you thought I was begging for that, since what I'm mainly asking for is participation when it's completed. HOWEVER, I'll still take some programming assistance if anyone wants to.

Just email me at [email protected] (so I have your email and can notify you) if you would participate in creating a char to fight in the battle when it's completed.

And/or if you want to code, you can let me know that as well via the forum or email. But since I'm still working out the specs, I'm not sure what to delegate out at this point, but I'll let you know.

You've got mail ;)

I still wanna co-op, how 'open' are you to changes in the development thingies? (just askin)

imho, this could become pretty large if rightly handled and become a pretty nice online game =)

True, Devion. When you threw out all that stuff originally, I began having visions of grandeur but then stopped myself since I want to make it very attainable at this point.

So for now, I think I want to stick with simplicity for Version 1.0. But after that, if it turns out to be a pretty good thing where people show interest, I certainly won't be oppossed to making it bigger and better. :)

Also, let me ask for some opinions here. What do you think would be better... When I have all the combatants fight one another, it'll keep track of wins and rank them from high to low. However, should I have each head to head battle be fought once? Or multiple times, and give the "win" to the character which wins it the most times?

I think the best way is to handle fights the way they are 'inserted' into the queue.

The fighting must be uhh.. gee, how do you call that in english... uhh. Winner stays, loser goes... (rank = rank -1? ;)

So if a player has a winning streak of 5 battles and looses, he has 4 points. if I'm correct that means that at the last battle you keep one winner and a lot of losers ;)

Also I think the battle must be simulated for like 5 minutes... in a sort of automatic turn based effect. Each side attacks and the other defends, and vica versa.

am I still making sense? ;-)

-- forgot to add,
So when everyone has played the ranking is just according to the scores the players had,

uhh I also noticed that everyone has to play against everyone since it would not be correct otherwise.

Or should there be a challenge-system attached to it ?

I understand what you're saying, and the ranking you mentioned is kinda what I have in mind. So I'm thinking each char fight hundreds/thousands of times, then averaging all the wins and loses out, come up with a ranking -- basically, like you've stated. This would most accurately rank those that are "the best."

Otherwise, if I do one shot for each person, then while one person may not be truly "better" than the other, but if they win since lady luck was on there side for that battle, then maybe I should still just give the win to them.

So what's everyone think would be better -- determining who's actually the best with multiple runs for each battle, or go "one time only" thing for each battle?

So all chars will definitely fight every other char at least once. In which case, it wouldn't be practical for each battle to last 5 minutes since hundreds/thousands of battle can potentially take place throughout the run of the Simulation.

Make sense?

you made more sense then I did ;)

well ok, make battles last 5 secs then =) or 10 moves etc. If one of the players aint dead then, then the player with the most health is ranked winner... or the game is tied. no rank change, otherwise -1 or +1.

and lady luck has to be pretty darn good if characters are build upon stats :-)

Actually, I think I'll have it go until one person is dead. But we'll see...

Thats a possiblity too, but you eliminate then that the 'dead' person can play again ... :P

Then it's more like a Diablo II Hardcore player ;-)

Well, I guess HP of 0 = unconscious then.

And what is the penalty of being unconsious ?

hey JDYoder,

Sorry for my awful plug for times of war earlier :(

Um i know i sent u a mail about ....

but i guess i can if u want (as long as it dont take too long).

Hehe -- don't feel bad about the plug -- it didn't bother me at all. We have to get our projects recognized out there somehow, and an occassion piggy-back is no biggy in my book.

Hey, it's actually very easy to have a 5-minutes battle without you spending that time sitting while they battle :)

The formulae is simple, NumberOfTurns = (Minutes*60000)/FPS

FPS is not actually the frames per second of the game, but actually how much miliseconds each frame lasts. This way you know how many turns do you need to have. If the FPS is 30 (gives you around 30 frames per second), you'd have to loop 10000 times :)

Jotaf is correct: you don't need to spend the entire time actually simulating how the battle goes. As long as you know the order the players go in, you can just do the math and return the results. You can simulate a 10 week battle in a few seconds this way.

However, there is no need for FPS etc--just assume each player takes a turn and calc. his turn, then do the next player, etc. Determine some kind of end criteria (all players go 10 times, 1 player dies, 1 player is alive only, etc) so that it won't be infinite.

I've been planning all along to just have each battle play out as quickly as it can, until there's a winner -- having each player fight every other player at least once, maybe more. So on my machine, the whole battle tournament simulation should take anywhere from 1 to 10 seconds.

:)

Hehe, you could give people their rankings the same minute you got their e-mail :p