AMD or P4? RADEON or GEFORCE?

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Aug 23rd, 2001, 04:53 PM
Krass

AMD or P4? RADEON or GEFORCE?

Hi people...
I would really appreciate any comments from the hardware gurus that might read this. My girlfriend is about to start college in computer-graphism and will need to buy a computer.

I believe she will make a very heavy use of apps like photoshop, illustrator (most adobe apps anyway), flash etc. She will also be learning the basics of MAYA (very powerful 3d modeler) for 3 sessions or so. I believe that owning her first computer will get her into games a bit (if she ever quits playing the sims), but what we're looking for is more stability and compability.

That's why I am a bit lost between AMD and P4 processors. I want to know what should be the best mix, considering that the most important is to render images quickly (3d images or only when working on large bitmaps).

I've been told that even if the P4 could be considered as a "more serious machine", the AMD 1.4ghz (athlon, for instance) could end up being a very good choice. Is this true? If so, what motherboard should I go with (I was thinking of ASUS A7V) ? I would also appreciate if someone could tell me what the difference is between T-BIRD and AHTLON is (both from AMD)... I believe one of both is the earlier and more robust version of the processor.

Many more questions will come up but I believe that's a start.

Thanks.
Aug 23rd, 2001, 05:02 PM
chrisjk

I was going to say AMD but then you said about graphics and (possibly) 3D work, so I changed it to P4.

As for graphics, GF 3.
Aug 23rd, 2001, 05:06 PM
[praetorian]

think so too......
Aug 23rd, 2001, 05:06 PM
JungleMan

Re: AMD or P4? RADEON or GEFORCE?

Definitely an NVIDIA. ATI cards are good for general use (AIW rules!!!!) and video editing. Nvidias are good for anything 3-D.

I disagree with Arse-Man :D, I would go with the Athlon 1.4. Contrary to this crap about higher bus speed with P4, well it has little edge over DDR in real life. Plus new DDR 333 FSB RAM is coming soon, with a compatible mobo of course.

You can OC it to 1600 or more if you custom build. Better yet if you have some money, get a Dual Athlon setup. Will beat a P4 system and will cost only a bit more than a high end p4 single processor system!
Aug 23rd, 2001, 05:09 PM

I'm partial to AMD for whatever the need.
Aug 23rd, 2001, 05:10 PM
chrisjk

P4's are knocking at 2GHz, which counts for a lot in video/image editing. Athlon can't keep up when performing those tasks.
Aug 23rd, 2001, 05:13 PM
JungleMan

Quote:

Originally posted by chrisjk
P4's are knocking at 2GHz, which counts for a lot in video/image editing. Athlon can't keep up when performing those tasks.

Athlons complete more instructions per clock cycle than P4s do. My Athlon 1.58 (a 1.4 overclocked) blows away all P4s at anything.

And do you realize just how expensive a 2ghz P4 is? about 600 bucks. for the chip ALONE. Athlons cost 1/4 of that.

oh yeah..original poster...you might want to listen to scoutt more than anyone, as he is a certified tech from what i heard.
Aug 23rd, 2001, 05:15 PM
chrisjk

wel he didn't say anything about cost ;)

I'm telling you, 3D tasks will be done faster on a p4
Aug 23rd, 2001, 05:17 PM
JungleMan

Quote:

Originally posted by chrisjk
wel he didn't say anything about cost ;)

I'm telling you, 3D tasks will be done faster on a p4

here, I asked this question on [H]ardOCP

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread....hreadid=202893

see what gets the most votes ;) ;)
Aug 23rd, 2001, 05:19 PM
chrisjk

with a similar clock speed I meant obvisouly
Aug 23rd, 2001, 05:20 PM
filburt1

Quote:

Originally posted by chrisjk
As for graphics, GF 3.

If you're Bill Gates.
Aug 23rd, 2001, 05:20 PM
chrisjk

yeah, 1 person has said Athlon. two people here have said P4...it's all swings and roundabouts really :)
Aug 23rd, 2001, 05:21 PM
chrisjk

Quote:

Originally posted by filburt1
If you're Bill Gates.

meaning? not that expensive
Aug 23rd, 2001, 05:21 PM
JungleMan

2 people have said Athlon, you forgot about scoutt ;) ;)
Aug 23rd, 2001, 05:25 PM
JungleMan

whoaaaaaaaaaaaaa

look at the [h] recommendations

http://www.hardforum.com/showthread....00#post2315900

only one person said p4, and even they said wait for the DDR chipset, and they seem to think I'm comparing the P4 to the Athlon 4

sir i think we have a winner :D :D :D :D
Aug 23rd, 2001, 05:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by chrisjk
with a similar clock speed I meant obvisouly

actaully I have to disagree, the AMD is more powerful than any Pentium at the same clock speed. but if you want video/graphics editing then go with a *pukes at the thought* MAC.
Aug 23rd, 2001, 05:40 PM
Krass

So many posts in 10 minutes

Thanks for all the feedback. That helps!

I would have the money to spend for the Gforce3... But wouldn't the Gforce2 do the trick?? Also, I think the Gforce3 is not dualhead, what about the Gforce2 and NVIDIA's? I'm not totally convinced about GF3 or NVIDIA cards right now.

I've been suggested on getting a AMD760 board and to avoid the VIA northbridges boards. Any further comments on this? Alternatively I would be considering ASUS motherboards. Any suggestions? The ASUS A7V133 SK-A VKT133A FSB@266 W/O SND perhaps? (and for my personal knowledge: does W/O SND means without an onboard soundcard? - don't reply just to answer this).

Thanks again people for the tips.
Aug 23rd, 2001, 05:45 PM
siyan

AMD 1.4Ghz
AMD 760 based motherboard

As for video card, you may want to hold out until R8500 comes out...

Although a GF2 Ultra will be probably more than adequate.

-C
Aug 23rd, 2001, 05:45 PM
chrisjk

okay, I conceed defeat on the AMD/P4 thing, but I really would go with GeForce 3 rather than 2. Manf's get slated for putting 2 in these days..it's only another £100 or so.
Aug 23rd, 2001, 06:21 PM

If I were doing a lot of graphics/video stuff, I would buy a Mac G4(With OSX, of course). I would never use one as my primary PC, but for graphics it can't be beat...
Aug 23rd, 2001, 07:04 PM

Re: So many posts in 10 minutes

Quote:

Originally posted by Krass
Thanks for all the feedback. That helps!

I would have the money to spend for the Gforce3... But wouldn't the Gforce2 do the trick?? Also, I think the Gforce3 is not dualhead, what about the Gforce2 and NVIDIA's? I'm not totally convinced about GF3 or NVIDIA cards right now.

I've been suggested on getting a AMD760 board and to avoid the VIA northbridges boards. Any further comments on this? Alternatively I would be considering ASUS motherboards. Any suggestions? The ASUS A7V133 SK-A VKT133A FSB@266 W/O SND perhaps? (and for my personal knowledge: does W/O SND means without an onboard soundcard? - don't reply just to answer this).

Thanks again people for the tips.

I have heard bad things about VIA, but i have used it for the past 2 years in a couple of boards and had no problems. as far as the w/o snd is correct, no on-board sound. I would try to avoid that if you can, same as the modem or network. they are a pain if you want to disable them and use your own card.
Wait for the R8500, you got to be kidding, that will cost a fortune when it hits the market, but it will lower some of the other cards out there as well. I cna't say to much about the video cards, as I haven't used a GF3 or 4, or Nvidia. but I have heard great things for both of them as far as grahpics go.

Asus and Abit are about the best on the market, they come highly recommended. either one I would say go for.
Aug 23rd, 2001, 07:24 PM
siyan

Re: Re: So many posts in 10 minutes

Quote:

Originally posted by scoutt

Wait for the R8500, you got to be kidding, that will cost a fortune when it hits the market, but it will lower some of the other cards out there as well. I cna't say to much about the video cards, as I haven't used a GF3 or 4, or Nvidia. but I have heard great things for both of them as far as grahpics go.

Lower prices elsewhere. My point exactly. :rolleyes:

-C
Aug 24th, 2001, 03:16 AM
HarryW

You might want to make sure she'll be using PCs in her classes - if it's a graphics course there's a very good chance they'll be Apple Macs. If they're Macs, I'd totally agree with Dennis and say get a G4, I don't think anyone will dispute (or will they?) that Macs are better than PCs for graphic design.
Aug 24th, 2001, 03:20 AM
JungleMan

however if you are getting a PC, look at boards by the following makers: Asus, Abit, Epox (I have the 8k7a+ and it 0wnz), Gigabyte, any others i forgot??
Aug 24th, 2001, 07:47 AM
Krass

They're working with PCs at school. And even if they would use MACs, she would NOT get a MAC.

Too many companied, so I heard, that have left MAC behind to buy PCs.

Q. on HDs now... The only 7200RPM I got in my price lists are MAXTOR and QUANTUM. Which of both do you recommend? Or maybe should I look elsewhere for quicker WD or FUJITSU?
Aug 24th, 2001, 07:48 AM
filburt1

Quote:

Originally posted by chrisjk
meaning? not that expensive

It's $400. That's insane considering the capable GeForce2 MX is $100.
Aug 24th, 2001, 07:49 AM
filburt1

Quote:

Originally posted by Krass
Or maybe should I look elsewhere for quicker WD or FUJITSU?

*snicker* Not Fujitsu. I've heard nothing but bad stuff about them in PC World and PC Magazine. WD is cool, despite the onslaught of flames I'll get for saying that. :rolleyes: They have a 7200 RPM ATA/100 80 GB for less than $250.
Aug 24th, 2001, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by filburt1

*snicker* Not Fujitsu. I've heard nothing but bad stuff about them in PC World and PC Magazine. WD is cool, despite the onslaught of flames I'll get for saying that. :rolleyes: They have a 7200 RPM ATA/100 80 GB for less than $250.

not from me, Me like WD, they are pretty ;)

they are pretty darn fast and god. I never had a problem with WD. but that is MY opinion.
Aug 24th, 2001, 09:52 AM
filburt1

I've never had a problem with them either. I had a 4.3 GB that survived a power surge while a Seagate one blew itself up. :)
Aug 24th, 2001, 10:24 AM

I recomend an IBM. I've heard they are better hard drives(they might not be the best, but I don't doubt they're good), and for some reason they are cheaper than WDs.... I thought they were more expensive(I think they were at a time), but in a few catalogs I've looked at they're like $20 cheaper....
Aug 28th, 2001, 08:15 AM
Krass

Alright, I'll soon be buying the machine but would like to clear out some points.

Are T-BIRD processors actually ATHLON processors? I am a bit confused as I sometime see T-BIRD processors categorized as ATHLON. I thought they were 2 different type of processors from AMD. What's the deal?

Also, I personally own an AMD 350mhz... (that's all I know about it). I remember back then (some years ago), AMD were known to be bad in video game playing - as if they were as good as pentium or newest celeron but not running with all games... or something like that. Anyone can confirm this and what about newest AMD processors?

Thanks.
Aug 28th, 2001, 09:46 AM
Serge

I just bought a new DELL. Although I'm going to use it for PhotoShop and Illustrator, mostly I'm going to do business apps (and of course programming).

Just to highlight the features:

P4 - 1.7Ghz, 512MB RAM, NVIDIA DDR 64MB, 16X DVR-ROM, 16/10/40 CDRW and a new IBM 7200RPM 100GB HDD
and to finish it - 21" SONY monitor.
Aug 28th, 2001, 10:05 AM

man, you must make good money :p

Krass, Thunderbird is the AMD internal code name for the new AMD Athlon processor with performance enhancing cache memory.

and I have never had a AMD be bad with games. the new ones are much more better. in my opinion.
My brother has a 350 and he can play any game under the sun, as long as his video card can do it :p
Aug 28th, 2001, 10:29 AM
Krass

Q.: Are GFORCE3 made by NVIDIA? Because someone suggested me to buy a GF3 *OR* a NVIDIA video card, telling me that both are awesome.

I thought they were the same. Am I wrong?
Aug 28th, 2001, 10:34 AM
Krass

Serge, thanks for telling us about your machine
Aug 28th, 2001, 10:50 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Krass
Q.: Are GFORCE3 made by NVIDIA? Because someone suggested me to buy a GF3 *OR* a NVIDIA video card, telling me that both are awesome.

I thought they were the same. Am I wrong?

yes they are the same, Nvidia is the company that makes GeForce. they probably meant the Radeon by ATI.
Aug 28th, 2001, 11:09 AM
Krass

Yet another Q.: In my price list, I can see many GF cards. There are GF2 and GF3 from ASUS, MSI and APPOLO. Why is that and what are the differences?
Aug 28th, 2001, 12:45 PM

what price list is that. it might mean that they bought the right to put the GeForce on the mother board. (imbedded that is)
Aug 28th, 2001, 04:51 PM
Bloodeye

Here's a nice link for Hardware:
http://www.anandtech.com/index.html

Check out the link titled:
"Intel Pentium 4 2.0GHz: The clock strikes two"
It details quite a few benchmark tests done between Intel and AMD. Very enlighting.........If you can read thru the techno crap.
Aug 28th, 2001, 05:07 PM
JungleMan

Krass: you may want to wait for the upcoming Athlon core, the palomino. This is going to have SSE extensions built in and is going to run cooler and faster. It's coming out in a few weeks if my memory serves me right.

And please sign up at http://www.pctsonline.com/ and join us and talk tech. :D :D
Aug 28th, 2001, 06:40 PM
JungleMan

Quote:

Originally posted by Krass
Yet another Q.: In my price list, I can see many GF cards. There are GF2 and GF3 from ASUS, MSI and APPOLO. Why is that and what are the differences?

I know that Gainward is great for Geforce3, and the 64 meg DDR card they sell is about $300.

Not sure about Geforce2, but get a well known brand, like Asus or Visiontek, with at least 64MB DDR onboard. And if you do go with the GF2, at least get a GTS.