I think they are both acting like complete *******es, but I know you guys like these kinds of threads.
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I think they are both acting like complete *******es, but I know you guys like these kinds of threads.
I heard that the suicide bomb last week blew arms and legs as far as four blocks away. Its terrible, but it sounds cool.
sounds cool?
haha
trust me, its not cool when you see REAL arms and legs of babies on the road
its only cool in the movies, trust me
oh, no don't get me wrong, it was a terrible thing that never should have happened. But hearing about it and actually seeing it are two different things. If I really saw that, I'd probably have nightmares for years.
ya
hope you never see that in real life
it will give you nightmares
Actually, that's disgusting, and I feel sick just thinking about it.Quote:
Originally posted by crptcblade
I heard that the suicide bomb last week blew arms and legs as far as four blocks away. Its terrible, but it sounds cool.
The Israelis do not have clean hands, but the Palestinians are fanatics being taken advantage of by their leaders. Anybody who thinks it is a good idea to suicide bomb a restaurant is pyscotic.
I do not think Arafat wants anything but a continuing conflict. He has power, prestige and lots of money from the other Arab countries. I do not even think he would want to win a war and take over all of Israel. In a more peaceful situation, he might have to be accountable for the funds. He might have to face elections. Nobody wants to change leaders in the midst of a conflict. He might lose his position if there was peace.
The Palestinian demands are totally unrealistic, especially the right of return. That one is too silly to discuss. It will happen voluntarily when the US gives the land back to the Indians. Those who left Israel in 1948 chose the losing side and deserved to pay for their mistake. Why reward their descendants?
Conspiracy theory :p ... I wonder if there is any Orwellian motivation for continual conflict and instability (not just in middle east) based on the economics of govt sponsored arms production and export.
Well regardless of who started it...the hatred is now rooted deep among both peoples. And that is what hinders peace. I agree with Guv, Arafat probably can't afford to let there be a peaceful resolution. That makes the situation even worse...
The irony is that even tho Filburt's poll is simplistic and we can all say "but hey, it is all so complicated now.. history... they did that to us" etc etc ... it really is as justifiable as the complex arguments that each side profers. There is never a black and white in these conflicts but apparently there are also few with the courage or inclination to move from their hard line stances.
I guess that the rest of the world will continue to look on with bemusement, thinking that .. "well, it's the middle east.. they are all a bit crazy over there."
TRue, true Beachbum, but the problem IS that both sides think that the other is the bad guy. But the things that each side "did" to the other are what keeps the hatred burning (and the bombs blowing...). In order for peace to happen there...people have to let go of there anger and hatred...and i dont see that happening in the near future.
Its all stupid.
-C
Arafat wants peace more than Israel does
i have said this before
if Israel is so interested in PEACE
why wont they let international monitoring of the situation?
clearly shows that they are hidding something
I think we should stop helping the Jews out and let them fight there own war.
how is that possible
when most of congress is ran by Jews?
It's not possible. This country is run by jews as we all know.
. I have no comment to make yet in this thread, but watch it or I will
Well, if anyone would ever look closely, they would see some misinterpretation and severe media bias. Israel has many times asked for periods of calm. ARAFAT REFUSED!!!
there are bombers from Fatah. Fatah is headed by Arafat.
Yes, Palestinian children die. But they are being placed in the line of fire by parents. Arab adults and children both instigate by throwing firebombs and rocks. Imagine Mexico doing this to the US. US soldiers would definitely fire.
Israeli children are killed while eating pizza. Arab children are killed while throwing rocks and soldiers or hanging out by wherever the violence is.
I recieved the following from an Israeli Arab. He is there, and sees what is really happening:
"I am an Arab Israeli citizen my friend. I am not Zionist. But neither am I fooled into thinking that the Israelis want us dead. If they did then why are we still alive?
"Below you talk about things the PA has done as if it is Israel's responsibility. Anyone not blinded by propaganda knows that Israel helps our economy more than they harm it.
"How absurd is it that the worst thing Israel can do to us (other than siege on a basic, humanitarian level; food, water, petrol (which we use for bombs) etc) is to prevent us from working in Israel? We want to kill them. We kill them. But if they stop us from being employed in Israeli companies, they are "war criminals?"
Israelis dont attack Arabs unprovoked. They retaliate after innocent civilians are killed. And Israel does not go for women and children. They target militants behind the attack. I know personally, that if I had a gun and little kids were throwing molotov coctails at me, I would shoot them. The reason there are more palestinians dying, is because they are not afraid to die. The Israeli citizens, wanting to live, stay away from the violence.
Hmmm... the UN displaces Palestine in 1959 to recreate the dead nation of Isreal.
And somewhere, someone thought this wouldn't cause problems.
Someone needs to explain this to me. Did Palestine get a say in 1959? Was there a vote or an invasion? What? How did it happen?
palestine was governed by the UK
I'm thinking it was earlier than '59, but I don't know.
But Palestine was a territory in the UK. Well, we all know how bad that can be. ;)
Israel becam independant in 1948
Get a life !!
Reading history book tells you that jews (there was no Israel before that) had occupied palestine in 1948 with the help of UK agreements and forces.
Till today People all over the world think palestinans are terorrists and they are the bad guys (I was one of those),untill couple of days ago when I saw some pictures of what Israel is doing at the meantime with the palestinian people and I know I was blind all these years , the're being killed everyday by israel's soldiers in a way I couldn't even imagine ,some being executed ,
other people being shot in the streets and left bleeding to death,
destruction of Houses(people have no place to live).
I'm christian and used to think Muslims are the only one there but there are lots of christian there fighting for freedom.
When u r being killed with tanks , F16 planes and other stuff of latest american tecnology and u have nothing to fight with except for a rock to get your freedom ,I think it's a kind of heroic act.
About 450 guys from US,UK,Euroup,and other countries came to that area all the way from their countries to prevent the Israeli's terrorism.
If u don't beleive this just some search on the internet for pictures and u'll find the truth .
People are being killed there rigth now ,if u haven't heard watch TV news other than CNN and american or UK channels, if I hadn't watched other ones I wouldn't have known the truth
I'm happy I found this thread to say sth
Everyone is soooooo good at making opinions! :) Congratulations! :) But I won't post my opinion! :D
Care to have look at this site if you please... www.mfa.gov.il
Here are some links on that page which I consider important to define terrorism better than that idiot who calls it simply as "evil".Oh yes... can I ask you people a favour? Please don't mix your possible anti-semitic feelings with your opinions which you may already consider as "the truth". Nazism and neo-nazism is sooo old-fashioned. tsk tsk.Quote:
Palestinian Terrorism: Photos - March 2002
The President of Magen David Adom condemns the adverse use of the Red Crescent Emblem - Mar 31, 2002
Apprehension of ambulance harboring a wanted terrorist and weapons at a checkpoint near Ramallah - Mar 27, 2002
Ramallah as a Center of Terror: Background Information - Mar 12, 2002
Which came first - Terrorism or "Occupation"?
Special Report: Inciting and Educating Children towards Hate, Anti-Semitism and Violence in the Palestinian Authority - Prime Minister's Office, March 2002
Answers to Frequently Asked Questions: Palestinian Violence and Terrorism; The International War against Terrorism (updated January 2002)
Palestinian violence and terrorism since Sept 2000
Victims of Palestinian Violence and Terror since Sept 2000
In Memoriam
Graphs and statistics of recent terrorist attacks (IDF Spokesman)
Suicide and Car Bomb Attacks in Israel Since the Declaration of Principles (Sept 1993)
Quote:
Originally posted by siyan
Its all stupid.
-C
After reading the all thread I must apologize everyone ... except for nad_scorp of course. I didn't mean everyone..
Yeah, I must agree, it's all really stupid... :)
Sorry to all , I meant no offense to anyone and maybe I was wrong saying that was the whole truth, but that the most part.Quote:
Everyone is soooooo good at making opinions! Congratulations! But I won't post my opinion! Care to have look at this site if you please... www.mfa.gov.il
Here are some links on that page which I consider important to define terrorism better than that idiot who calls it simply as "evil".
I removed that sentence MOON.
I'm not defending some palestinians bombing but When putting yourself in their shoes where the've no army nor weapons and want to fight for your own land occupied by Israel and they are being slaughtered every day by Israelies with no mercy with Israel claiming they are self defending ,didn't they occupy it in the first place and started killing people to get them out of their land.(I think palest. are using same way to get Israelis out)
Is "israelies spelled right" ?
Take a first look to :
http://www.intifada.com/
http://www.sabiroon.com/alquds/pictures.htm
plz check this :
Children were killed from both sides. Palestinian children were killed in great numbers in comparison to the Israeli side losses.
BTW. MOON ,I was discussing the subject and I can handle other opinions without offensing "as in idiot" anyone so take a chill pill and cheer up
Have u heard the famous story of the boy killed with his father by Isreal recorded on camera (found on internet),but here is the video's site:
http://moqarana.8m.com/qaren.htm then click to the first square to the right to watch video
and the pictures:
http://dorra.nawal.com/
People who say that the Jews run the U.S. are so totally delusional, they're only one step away from buying into the neo-Nazi fantasy that the holocaust never happened. (Yeah, you see, that too was a creation of the Jewish controlled media.)
Facts:
Jews comprise about 5% of U.S. population.
Jews comprise less than 5% of the Congress and Senate.
The last election was the first time a Jew had ever been on a major party presidential ticket (vice president or president).
Ted Turner is the most powerful American in the media world (not a Jew.)
Rupert Murdoch is probably the other most powerful figure in worldwide media (again, not a Jew.)
And yes, there are a lot of Jews who became the heads of the studios in the early days of Hollywood, and because of this it's not surprising that even today, there are a lot of Jews still heading the major Hollywood studios.
Well good for them, they came to this country and prospered.
But if you're going to use that fact as a basis to imagine this secret sect of powerful Jews who manipulate the invisible strings that control the United States of America, you, my friend, are totally delusional and might want to consider some psychiatric help.
Israel should open their eyes and look at their selves. They are the terrorist killing thousands of Palestenians. The brutilization of the Palestenian people is unbearable. They **** too much about terrorist attacks, rolling tanks into Palestenian villages is TERRORISM. If you watch any news station, you can see tanks in villages and surrounding Arafat's compound, this is not a recent event. This has been going on since 1948! Every Palestenian has seen this heinous brutalization or have had this happen to him or her. What drives a suicide bomber to do what he or she does? This brutalization! It is b/c thousands of Pals are killed. It is b/c the world is stereotyping Palestenians in being terrorist when this group of people harbors the most engineers, doctors, scholars, etc. in the entire middle east, including Israel. It is b/c Israel is covering their acts on us and reiterate all suicide attacks to give the impression that the Palestenians are terrorist. There are Jewish military areas where their purpose is to slaughter Palestenians police officers that are trying to keep the peace! They are Jewish Talibans as one said! Hitler Shoron has no compassion for human life. This is his plan of attack: pull back negotian talks with Palestenians, then kill hundreds of Palestenians for a suicide attack that killed 2 ppl, and then BLAME ARAFAT. This is ridiculous and it must stop! I heard Bush's speech, it was completely retarded! "I think Arafat should do more to stop the violence, I respect Israel's right to defend, but I still want a path of peace." Ok, Arafat is locked up with no electricity in a room with no windows, how can he stop the most recent suicide attacks that way? Now he also said it is ok for Israel to use tanks to stop these attacks, but he still wants peace. Now how can you have peace when tanks are rolling into Pal villages raging a person to commit a suicide attack? Some president we have.
I want the misconceptions of the Palestenians to stop, this war on terror relative to Palestenians is rubbish. People just look at the surface and say "Palestenians are terrorist, they must be stopped." But what they fail to do is look into the why question. What will drive a person to do this? It is the brutalization of our people while the world thinks you are the terrorist. A lot of rage caused here. People look at these ppl as a whole. "The Palestenians had 5 suicide bombing in the past 5 days." This is unjust. This war must stop. It is a very sensitive situation right now, it is not time for Shoron to start a full war where with his crazy mind... the entire Palestenian race will die. O how I wish Clinton was still president. I find it incredible how Europeans and the rest of the world admire and appreciate this man more than Americans do. He allowed both parties to talk instead of killing each other which Bush has done. Arabs want peace, last week in a meeting, they all agreed to sign a paper stating a cease fire. Anyways, my heart goes out to the Palestenians and the Israelites, may God be with them...
-sry for any typos
[Foghorn Leghorn]
You gotta breathe boy .. breathe...
[/Foghorn Leghorn]
doesnt matter anymore, terrorist or not, i hope they continue their struggle and we outsiders should do what ever we can to help them outQuote:
Originally posted by STT
Israel should open their eyes and look at their selves. They are the terrorist killing thousands of Palestenians. The brutilization of the Palestenian people is unbearable. They **** too much about terrorist attacks, rolling tanks into Palestenian villages is TERRORISM. If you watch any news station, you can see tanks in villages and surrounding Arafat's compound, this is not a recent event. This has been going on since 1948! Every Palestenian has seen this heinous brutalization or have had this happen to him or her. What drives a suicide bomber to do what he or she does? This brutalization! It is b/c thousands of Pals are killed. It is b/c the world is stereotyping Palestenians in being terrorist when this group of people harbors the most engineers, doctors, scholars, etc. in the entire middle east, including Israel. It is b/c Israel is covering their acts on us and reiterate all suicide attacks to give the impression that the Palestenians are terrorist. There are Jewish military areas where their purpose is to slaughter Palestenians police officers that are trying to keep the peace! They are Jewish Talibans as one said! Hitler Shoron has no compassion for human life. This is his plan of attack: pull back negotian talks with Palestenians, then kill hundreds of Palestenians for a suicide attack that killed 2 ppl, and then BLAME ARAFAT. This is ridiculous and it must stop! I heard Bush's speech, it was completely retarded! "I think Arafat should do more to stop the violence, I respect Israel's right to defend, but I still want a path of peace." Ok, Arafat is locked up with no electricity in a room with no windows, how can he stop the most recent suicide attacks that way? Now he also said it is ok for Israel to use tanks to stop these attacks, but he still wants peace. Now how can you have peace when tanks are rolling into Pal villages raging a person to commit a suicide attack? Some president we have.
I want the misconceptions of the Palestenians to stop, this war on terror relative to Palestenians is rubbish. People just look at the surface and say "Palestenians are terrorist, they must be stopped." But what they fail to do is look into the why question. What will drive a person to do this? It is the brutalization of our people while the world thinks you are the terrorist. A lot of rage caused here. People look at these ppl as a whole. "The Palestenians had 5 suicide bombing in the past 5 days." This is unjust. This war must stop. It is a very sensitive situation right now, it is not time for Shoron to start a full war where with his crazy mind... the entire Palestenian race will die. O how I wish Clinton was still president. I find it incredible how Europeans and the rest of the world admire and appreciate this man more than Americans do. He allowed both parties to talk instead of killing each other which Bush has done. Arabs want peace, last week in a meeting, they all agreed to sign a paper stating a cease fire. Anyways, my heart goes out to the Palestenians and the Israelites, may God be with them...
-sry for any typos
those who help themselves will get victory from Allah
jews are coming from every country to Palestine and claiming that its their land, long live people who will die for their cause
and for those 2 FREEDOM fighter women that died as freedom fighters i say i hope some day more women will follow their footsteps
>>>What drives a suicide bomber to do what he or she does? This brutalization!
Reminds me of a stupid ***** I used to date. I was young and she was great in bed, so I endured her behavior, which was totally psychotic. When I'd confront her, saying how on Earth could you do something like this to me, "It's your fault I did this to you because I wouldn't have done it if you hadn't done something to make me do it."
Now that's what I call ***** logic, and STT's reasoning is a perfect example.
You say Arabs want peace??? I can't tell you what the majority of the Arab people want, but I can tell you that when the Conference of Islamic countries that just ended couldn't even get half of it's member nations to come out and speak out against suicide bombings and the slaughter of innocent people just trying to live their lives, I can tell you for damn sure that most of the Arab leaders don't want peace.
Regardless of anything your enemies have done to you, if you can't just come out and say that these suicide bombings are evil, then you are perverting the whole essence of Islam. They obviously hate the Jews more than they love their religion.
I think you misunderstood. I was saying that yes these suicide attacks are completely inhumane, but instead of ppl just stating "Palestenians are terrorist>" they should look into the "why" question. Israelie tanks are rolling into villages slaughtering all Palestenians. 185 Palestenians died this month and about 30 Israelites died. Now I ask you, why is it that the media must reiterate these 30 deaths and not mention these 185 deaths? This is what drives a suicide bomber, this injust misconception and the brutalization of the people with hundreds of Palestenian deaths.
Uhh, yeah, or maybe not so long :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally posted by kovan
long live people who will die for their cause
I wouldn't have much of a problem with the suicide bombings, etc, if they weren't targetting civilians. The military is meant to be a dangerous pasttime. Shopping isn't. It really amazes me how bad they are at inflicting casualties anyway. How can you explode in a busy shopping centre or unload a fully automatic rifle into a crowd and only kill like 5 people? Seems like they're more interested in getting themselves killed than making a difference.
Quote:
Originally posted by HarryW
Uhh, yeah, or maybe not so long :rolleyes:
I wouldn't have much of a problem with the suicide bombings, etc, if they weren't targetting civilians. The military is meant to be a dangerous pasttime. Shopping isn't. It really amazes me how bad they are at inflicting casualties anyway. How can you explode in a busy shopping centre or unload a fully automatic rifle into a crowd and only kill like 5 people? Seems like they're more interested in getting themselves killed than making a difference.
yeah i know...but lets be glad they cant do it well
im not gonna bother stating my POV coz STT and nad_scorp already have...
if the "war on terrorism" (and i use that name loosely) does go to iraq and then on...he should go for ariel sharon next...he is the biggest ****in terrorist there is
I think we can leave Sharon alone Ghost. The guy's a moron he'll fook it up himself. No need for The US to get him or Arafat. It's like watching a new release of "Dumb and Dumber II (jackarses with bombs)".
Bit simplistic there kovan.....Quote:
Originally posted by kovan
Arafat wants peace more than Israel does
i have said this before
if Israel is so interested in PEACE
why wont they let international monitoring of the situation?
clearly shows that they are hidding something
You have the religous side, the security side, and numerous other problems here. What exactly is Israel meant to do, when a number of groups and political parties in the region are dedicated to the destruction of it.
Gee, International monitoriing really works:rolleyes:
Israel doesnt want any international monitors, why?Quote:
Originally posted by Jethro
Bit simplistic there kovan.....
You have the religous side, the security side, and numerous other problems here. What exactly is Israel meant to do, when a number of groups and political parties in the region are dedicated to the destruction of it.
Gee, International monitoriing really works:rolleyes:
as long as there is opression there will be freedom fighters
history repeats itself
True enough Ghost.Quote:
Originally posted by ghost ryder
yeah i know...but lets be glad they cant do it well
Who are the oppressors though? And who are the freedom fighters? It's all a matter of opinion.Quote:
Originally posted by kovan
as long as there is opression there will be freedom fighters
history repeats itself
might = opressors
its law of nature
you ever see a zebra dominate over a lion?
I've never seen any suicide zebras
you need to watch more nature showsQuote:
Originally posted by chrisjk
I've never seen any suicide zebras
nah, all they seem to have is lions ****in' each other over, dung beetles rolling up shiyat and Wilderbeast humping
Not my idea of entertainment; except the humping of course...err...did I say that out loud?
I wasn't calling you an idiot. By "that idiot" I meant W.Bush. Calling terrorism evil doesn't define terrorism and therefore doesn't define who are the terrorists -- acusations that the Israelis are getting right now.
I'll see your links. But that doesn't mean I didn't get a look at the other side already and I believe I won't see anything new...
Since everyone gives opinions, here's mine:
Terrorists attack civilians and protect themselves with their own "civilians" (women but mostly children)
If the Israeli act like this, I'm a flying blue pig. :rolleyes:
>>>Arafat wants peace more than Israel does
>>>O how I wish Clinton was still president.
Clinton himself would tell you how disappointed he was when he had the two sides on the brink of peace only for Arafat to reject the Isreali offer of the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, and part of Jerusalem. Not only did Arafat reject the offer, he never even made a counter-proposal.
The natural reaction of the Israeli people to the failure to reach a peaceful agreement was to elect a hardliner like Sharon.
All this Bush bashing is comical. Bush's national approval rating is between 80 - 90% and it just goes to show that no matter what the poll is about, there's a 10% margin of idiots.
Quote:
Originally posted by mikeycorn
>>>Arafat wants peace more than Israel does
>>>O how I wish Clinton was still president.
Clinton himself would tell you how disappointed he was when he had the two sides on the brink of peace only for Arafat to reject the Isreali offer of the West Bank, the Gaza Strip, and part of Jerusalem. Not only did Arafat reject the offer, he never even made a counter-proposal.
The natural reaction of the Israeli people to the failure to reach a peaceful agreement was to elect a hardliner like Sharon.
All this Bush bashing is comical. Bush's national approval rating is between 80 - 90% and it just goes to show that no matter what the poll is about, there's a 10% margin of idiots.
aint Hillary a jew?
Israels only chance of a mass acceptance for PEACE is the saudi plan,
Hillary is the farthest thing from a Jew, in fact, she has been accused by more than one person of using anti-Semetic slurs. When it comes to the Middle East, she's always sided with the Palestinians.
From your second link:
Click here if you want to see the picture
I know this picture. The guy bleeding is a Jew from Boston. He was in Ramallah in a cab and a mob of palestinians took him out and his friend. The Israeli policemen which was cut out of the picture is clearing the people away from him. The French newspapers used this picture the same way it's being used on this site
From your first link, I suggest you read "Which came first: Terrorism or Ocupation?" from the mfa site. The site is currently off and it's not the first time. Hackers always strike this site when there's something "big" in the Middle-East conflict and it was probably what happened. It will be back.
u betta sell lota that shareware to make up that fone bill
:D :D :D :D :D
MOON whats the big deal with that picture
some guy bleeding, geez big deal
how about show some with palestinians have their arms and legs removed from tanks shells
:) Yeah your right i'm beeing ridiculous... I'm just tired of all this conflict. It's better to have a drink and calm down. Let history be the judge. :)Quote:
Originally posted by kovan
u betta sell lota that shareware to make up that fone bill
:D :D :D :D :D
MOON whats the big deal with that picture
some guy bleeding, geez big deal
how about show some with palestinians have their arms and legs removed from tanks shells
>>>u betta sell lota that shareware to make up that fone bill
:p
Insha'Allah
use words that mean something to youQuote:
Originally posted by mikeycorn
>>>u betta sell lota that shareware to make up that fone bill
:p
Insha'Allah
*kovan jabs you some more*
God willing.
Actually, tank shells don't blow of arms, they blow up the whole thing. There isnt anything left.Quote:
Originally posted by kovan
u betta sell lota that shareware to make up that fone bill
:D :D :D :D :D
MOON whats the big deal with that picture
some guy bleeding, geez big deal
how about show some with palestinians have their arms and legs removed from tanks shells
The Isreally army isnt stupid, even if they wanted to kill people en masse, tank shells are the most inefficient way of doing that there is.
rockets from F-16's?Quote:
Originally posted by nishantp
Actually, tank shells don't blow of arms, they blow up the whole thing. There isnt anything left.
The Isreally army isnt stupid, even if they wanted to kill people en masse, tank shells are the most inefficient way of doing that there is.
and actually tank shells do blow off arms and legs
2 of my uncles lost their legs to tank shells
Please give them my condolences then.
When posting to a Thread like this, it seems correct to mention back ground for those who might not know. It puts some perspective on prejudices. I am an atheist who was initially brought up as a Quaker (obscure Christian sect with little dogma & no rituals).
It seems to me that a lot of the people posting here have little historical knowledge of Palestine/Israel. Following is some history after which I briefly mention my opinions.
First of all, talking about who owned what way back when is a silly waste of time. Who do you pick from 500 to 5000 years of history if not the ones in charge now? Pick a winner from the following historical outline.
The Jews were intermittently in charge from about 1000-1500 BC to about 100-200 BC, with various countries conquering them from time to time. They had taken over from some people long since forgotten. The Romans took over in about 100 BC and dispersed most of the Jews about 70-80 AD due to an attempted Jewish revolution. Israel was pretty much destroyed in about 600 AD. Various Arab cultures were in charge between the Romans and the Turks. Turkey was in charge of Palestine/Israel for about 200 or more years, ending when they chose the losing side in the First World War. England was in charge from about 1918 to 1948. In return for help during the First World War, Britain promised to establish a Jewish State, but did not follow through on that promise. Jews had started coming back to Israel in the late 1800's, and many went there between the First & Second World Wars. There were probably a few Jews there at all times since about 1000 BC.
In 1948, partly due to world wide guilt over the holocaust and partly due to various political pressures & problems, England, at UN urging, partitioned British Palestine into Jewish and Palestinian sections. Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, & Iraq attacked almost immediately after the British left. The Jews pretty much defeated the Arabs, although Jordan ended up in charge of the West Bank. Israel took the West Bank back in a war in 1967. I do not remember who was given the West Bank when the English left.
When the war broke out in 1984, the Arabs declared that Israel had no right to exist. They also threatened to punish Arabs staying in Israel as collaborators and traitors. Partly due to the urging of the Arabs, partly due to pressure from Israelis, and partly due to fear of being in a war zone, many Palestinians left Israel during the 1948-1949 war.
I was sent to Israel in 1960-1961 by a company which sold computers to the Israeli Department of Defense. While there, I made friends with Albert (Anglicized version of an Arabic name), who was a wealthy Islamic Arab. He and his father stayed in Israel when the 1948 war started because they owned valuable real estate and a construction business. They did not trust the Arabs to return their property and money if they left. They also felt sure they could bribe Arab conquerors if they stayed put and converted a lot of cash into hidden stores of jewelry & gold. They also trusted the Israelis to treat them fairly if they stayed neutral. They claimed that most Arabs could have stayed in Israel, and had been foolish to leave. They also felt that the Arab nations had an obligation to resettle the Palestinians in Arab countries since they been the basic cause of the Palestinian exodus.
From what I saw while in Israel, the Jews turned a forlorn desert region into a prosperous country. If they do not have a right to be there, who does? Certainly not the Palestinians who left when the going got rough. If the Palestinians want to talk about who owned what in the past, do they want to turn the country over to the Turks or the British? Or maybe to the Italians, who are successors of the Romans? Why do they think they have a right to property they left over 50 years ago?
If taken from the Jews, I would sooner see it given back to the Turks or the British. Psychotics who think it is a good idea to encourage suicide bombers to attack civilians do not deserve to own or run a country. It makes me ill when I hear parents of the suicides praise such actions. The Palestinians should be dispersed among the populations of various Arab countries.
When I saw Palestinians (and other Arabs) celebrating the World Trade Center disaster, they lost the last bit of sympathy I had for them. I would not want to Nuke them, but I would not lift my little finger to help them out of their misery. They deserve what they have gotten.
Sorry fell asleep during that recital....
- The current Israeli incursions under the banner "War against Terrorism" Sharon's words, seems an attempt to jump on the US bandwagon...........
again you seem pretty ignorant as to seeing few celebrate *which of course was made even bigger by media* while ALMOST ALL muslims condemn the attacks on WTCQuote:
Originally posted by Guv
When posting to a Thread like this, it seems correct to mention back ground for those who might not know. It puts some perspective on prejudices. I am an atheist who was initially brought up as a Quaker (obscure Christian sect with little dogma & no rituals).
It seems to me that a lot of the people posting here have little historical knowledge of Palestine/Israel. Following is some history after which I briefly mention my opinions.
First of all, talking about who owned what way back when is a silly waste of time. Who do you pick from 500 to 5000 years of history if not the ones in charge now? Pick a winner from the following historical outline.
The Jews were intermittently in charge from about 1000-1500 BC to about 100-200 BC, with various countries conquering them from time to time. They had taken over from some people long since forgotten. The Romans took over in about 100 BC and dispersed most of the Jews about 70-80 AD due to an attempted Jewish revolution. Israel was pretty much destroyed in about 600 AD. Various Arab cultures were in charge between the Romans and the Turks. Turkey was in charge of Palestine/Israel for about 200 or more years, ending when they chose the losing side in the First World War. England was in charge from about 1918 to 1948. In return for help during the First World War, Britain promised to establish a Jewish State, but did not follow through on that promise. Jews had started coming back to Israel in the late 1800's, and many went there between the First & Second World Wars. There were probably a few Jews there at all times since about 1000 BC.
In 1948, partly due to world wide guilt over the holocaust and partly due to various political pressures & problems, England, at UN urging, partitioned British Palestine into Jewish and Palestinian sections. Egypt, Jordan, Syria, Lebanon, & Iraq attacked almost immediately after the British left. The Jews pretty much defeated the Arabs, although Jordan ended up in charge of the West Bank. Israel took the West Bank back in a war in 1967. I do not remember who was given the West Bank when the English left.
When the war broke out in 1984, the Arabs declared that Israel had no right to exist. They also threatened to punish Arabs staying in Israel as collaborators and traitors. Partly due to the urging of the Arabs, partly due to pressure from Israelis, and partly due to fear of being in a war zone, many Palestinians left Israel during the 1948-1949 war.
I was sent to Israel in 1960-1961 by a company which sold computers to the Israeli Department of Defense. While there, I made friends with Albert (Anglicized version of an Arabic name), who was a wealthy Islamic Arab. He and his father stayed in Israel when the 1948 war started because they owned valuable real estate and a construction business. They did not trust the Arabs to return their property and money if they left. They also felt sure they could bribe Arab conquerors if they stayed put and converted a lot of cash into hidden stores of jewelry & gold. They also trusted the Israelis to treat them fairly if they stayed neutral. They claimed that most Arabs could have stayed in Israel, and had been foolish to leave. They also felt that the Arab nations had an obligation to resettle the Palestinians in Arab countries since they been the basic cause of the Palestinian exodus.
From what I saw while in Israel, the Jews turned a forlorn desert region into a prosperous country. If they do not have a right to be there, who does? Certainly not the Palestinians who left when the going got rough. If the Palestinians want to talk about who owned what in the past, do they want to turn the country over to the Turks or the British? Or maybe to the Italians, who are successors of the Romans? Why do they think they have a right to property they left over 50 years ago?
If taken from the Jews, I would sooner see it given back to the Turks or the British. Psychotics who think it is a good idea to encourage suicide bombers to attack civilians do not deserve to own or run a country. It makes me ill when I hear parents of the suicides praise such actions. The Palestinians should be dispersed among the populations of various Arab countries.
When I saw Palestinians (and other Arabs) celebrating the World Trade Center disaster, they lost the last bit of sympathy I had for them. I would not want to Nuke them, but I would not lift my little finger to help them out of their misery. They deserve what they have gotten.
you just need an excuse to take the side of israelis, which is fine
just dont say you had any sympathy for palestinians,
read your previous threads before you make such statement
as for "they deserve what they get"
i hope you get a flesh disease that eats you out from head to toe
its too bad one of those wtc planes didnt crash on your head and all the idiots like you, sympathy goes towards families of those that might have been in the plane when they would kill a ignorant person like you
as there is a saying "where ever the string gets thiner then thats where it should break" (translated saying)Quote:
Originally posted by Jethro
Sorry fell asleep during that recital....
- The current Israeli incursions under the banner "War against Terrorism" Sharon's words, seems an attempt to jump on the US bandwagon...........
this will not go far, clearly all muslims are not falling for it
including the rest of the world i might add *with exception of US*