Jesus says " I am the Way, Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through me. " John 14:6
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Jesus says " I am the Way, Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through me. " John 14:6
*troll*
So, let me get this striaght... you are saying that not only is there a god, but he's your dad?
Yeah... riiiiiiight!
I don't go for religion in any way because I fail to see the relevance of most religions to modern life, and the complete lack of proof is a bit of a shame as well :rolleyes:
Therefore, my opinion on what was said is irrelevant because it was never said, due to Jesus' not existing in the first place ;)
Are we talking about the Jesus who runs the bakery down the road. I mean his bread is pretty good, but you are going a bit far in your praise there dude.
There are probably a few Jews, Hindus, Muslems, etc that might disagree with you.
Where the hell is Gen-X when ya need him.
Parksie has got it bang on. I couldn't have said it better myself. Except maybe the bit about the old guy not existing, because I just don't know either way myself.
A better question would be "Do you believe in a higher bieng or life then ourselves?"
Becasue not everyone is Christian. Take 1 billion ppl in China and India! Most of them arent Christian and thats a huge amount of the worlds population.
I dont believe in Adam and Eve and other stuff like that!
Jethro do you get mormons and the like?
We had one and i had this same argument with him(i usually tell them to go away) i figure there's too much conclusive evidence that the earth was not formed in 7 days.
I mean where did the dinosaurs fit into adam and eve? Did god f_ck up badly or something then decide that they sucked and where no fun at all and to try it again?
is this where this forum gets interesting again?
parksie - NOT ATTACKING YOU OR ANYTHING, just curious
what proof do you need, and on what subject?
jesus4u - i dont like the options you have, so i am boycoting your pool :), there should be a option "Do you believe in him other than whats said about him in the bible"
Jethro - i think reappearance of few people would be nice
Gen-X
JDavison
VBsomething
and HarryW
all of the above put good arguments up based on discussions
but if this can of worm opens up, i have some questions of my own that i still have not got answers too
Mormans and Seven Day Adventists. Yeah normally tell them l am a Satanist and watch them running down the driveway;)
And on the seventh day God looked at what he had created, and thought what a cockup. So he demolished the firmament and started again. And thought what a cockup, but too late, George Bush had got into the garden of eden. So God thought, bugger it l'm off down the pub with Zeus.
God would be best mates with Aussies and Kiwis.
Oops...almost forgot to mention...please donate 10% of your yearly income to my new church of the Later Day Mates.
God Bless.
jdavison was all ways a good proponent for christians. What's happened to the guy, last l heard he had another kid..Quote:
Originally posted by kovan
is this where this forum gets interesting again?
parksie - NOT ATTACKING YOU OR ANYTHING, just curious
what proof do you need, and on what subject?
jesus4u - i dont like the options you have, so i am boycoting your pool :), there should be a option "Do you believe in him other than whats said about him in the bible"
Jethro - i think reappearance of few people would be nice
Gen-X
JDavison
VBsomething
and HarryW
all of the above put good arguments up based on discussions
but if this can of worm opens up, i have some questions of my own that i still have not got answers too
i talked to him ummmm maybe about 2 weeks ago or so
i sent him a cd long time ago (last time i was here)
he got back to me that he receieved it
that was about it
ya i agree with ya there
Is jdavison coming back on-line? He was well liked around these parts.
In my opinion, it was not god who made the man, it was the man who made god...
dont know
i hope so
i like to talk to him about few things..
i respect all opinions...
i had the proof that god does not exist, or he turn his back on me...but it is to personal to post it...
If it is man who made God, then who made man.
and if man came from monkey, then who made monkey?
If monkey was evaluated to man, how come there are sill monkey around?
Even if evaluation is possible(I'm not saying it's impossible) the final thing will be who made the single cells?
Who made the earth? Who made the Universe?
Surely It can't be by luck that we are here.
So There must me god. And God Made Us! And That's The Fact! :)
i respect your opinion, but with that way of thinking why there is children dying, why exists drugs, why women are raped, why Boavista FC won the Portuguese soccer Championship :), those are questions that proof that can not exist a god, or a good one.
We are in the century of the science, it is time for people do what must be done instead talking to wood statue in a church...
faith is for faithless...
If you state that some one made the Universe, and this some one is god, then who made god? (We all know God is an Aussie who lives out Broken Hill way and hates poms;:)Quote:
Originally posted by Caleb
If it is man who made God, then who made man.
and if man came from monkey, then who made monkey?
If monkey was evaluated to man, how come there are sill monkey around?
Even if evaluation is possible(I'm not saying it's impossible) the final thing will be who made the single cells?
Who made the earth? Who made the Universe?
Surely It can't be by luck that we are here.
So There must me god. And God Made Us! And That's The Fact! :)
Jesus says "I am the Way...(through his guidance and direction), Truth...(the truth is with the Lord, because the Lord is true) and the Life...(only through his Life do we have Life). No one comes to the Father except through me...(Only through Jesus will God even deal with us. To God we are worthless pieces of human flesh. Jesus is in a way kinda like a big filter, that strains out our indescretions, failings, and sin. So through Jesus God sees the good in us, and only through Jesus can we reach God).Quote:
Originally posted by jesus4u
Jesus says " I am the Way, Truth and the Life. No one comes to the Father except through me. " John 14:6
jesus4u - I commend you on how you proclaim your faith through your nickname, and your reminders of Jesus, the Word, and God. To me that says you have true faith. Because alot of people say they believe, and really it's just words. True belief is action.
Of course you could express yourself by wiring yourself up with TNT and finding a crowd and blowing yourself up along with countless other people all in the name of your God. I don't believe and I dare to ask anyone else to justify this sort of action as "the right thing to do" That the guidance and direction for this kind of action would come from God..........I believe we all know the truth to this.
Bloodeye you have certain summed up Islamic fundamentalists in your statement.
Kovan................am waiting dude....oops forgot to get the Uni West Sydney stuff....back in a while.
Jethro - according to theories of science (dont want to use religion), everything is caused by another thing
but there has to be the ULTIMATE start
and thats where i say religion, my friend, come and explain
it says "God is the beganning"
ha ha
*now that should get this conversation going*
our mind has one problem, we only accept that things exists in a space & time dimension...but if there is no beginning...????
but our minds cant handle that
its not a concept that one can grasp and have proof for it
i agree with you...but a few years ago nobody thought that we could have this conversation (talking about internet), but we are...
caleb:
If it is man who made God, then who made man.
and if man came from monkey, then who made monkey?
If monkey was evaluated to man, how come there are sill monkey around?
Even if evaluation is possible(I'm not saying it's impossible) the final thing will be who made the single cells?
Who made the earth? Who made the Universe?
Surely It can't be by luck that we are here.
So There must me god. And God Made Us! And That's The Fact!
Who made the universe not who WHAT!
Why are you so sure it's not just luck?
I would persume that it's luck that you are on this earth. I.e lucky your father wasnt gay! Unless your saying God put you on this earth not your parents!
agreed on that as well
but things according to laws of the universe *ones we have found*
that no beginning breaks almost everyone of them
this internet is only a proof of what some laws of the universe tell us
Albert Einstein said "Religion without science is blind, Science without religion is blind"
or something like that
the question is
CAN religion co-exist with science
if you ask me
i can give you a finite answer (now that brings up a GOOD point)
why is there finite?
why cant there be a end to something? i mean 1+2=3
thats end of that
but finite is finite
see? if i go on you would probably wanna kill me
cus the human brain cant handle it :)
lot to be said about this
and for those who know me on here
i will be a lot more active now :)
well you can look at it this wayQuote:
Originally posted by Beacon
Why are you so sure it's not just luck?
I would persume that it's luck that you are on this earth. I.e lucky your father wasnt gay! Unless your saying God put you on this earth not your parents!
God put his father on earth, and his father and his father and his father..
and you can say he is lucky as well
if you ask a religious person(me for example)
i will say well yes through his father, god put him on earth
if god just dropped him on earth..
we would be like ":WHAT THE..."
things have to be presented to us in a way we can undrestand
Have you heard of the Big Bang?
The theory that the universe evolved from a massive explosion.
Do we only accept things that are there? A lot of science especially is based purely on Theories! Yet we believe them and prove them to be correct!
Take Noah's ark bit of the Bible aparently the World Flooded correct? for 40days and 40 nights but the only geological proof of any large amount of land being submerged for such a short amount of time is in The Middle East!
Hence thats were the Bible was transcribed. What about the other people that were around the world? Why dont they have any scipture of a flood?
Big Bang yes
i am very familiar with it
infact my scripture confirms big bang theory
flood,
my scripture doesnt say the WORLD was flooded
it just mentions a flood and noah
Theories are just theories
and can be proven wrong
so until they are concrete, they are just opinions...
i have my doubts of the bible, if you follow my other posts on these issues you will have a better undrestanding
but science doesnt explain everything
and thats where I feel, we humans need another way to have things explained to us, where science fails to do so
and thats religion
So your agreeing with me then Kovan?
Whatever way you look at it LUCK plays a big part.
I'm not upto speed with your previous posts. But what scripture would you be refering to?
I dont mean to offend but since you have no proof or concrete evidence of these events ever existing couldnt religion just be another theory created by a number of people?
This theory differes between races and people but has one common name Religion and as you say each theory can be proved wrong if people are willing to let that be. But in some parts of this world some people i.e churches will not allow this to be done as they would lose power.
You say your scripture confirms Big Bang and that it has been provided to us in a form we can understand. But who says we didnt misinterpret the scipture.
Perhaps God is a name given to represent the forces of the big bang etc.
I'm sort of religious but there are some things that just to make sense!
according to Islam (my religion) and its scripture (Qur'an)
nothing is luck, everything has a purpose
some maybe controlled by you, and other humans
but some is controlled by a higher being (God)
so thats just a wierd way of saying "some of your destiny is not controlled by you, but some is"
Yes i agree with you that there was a "big bang"
and yes i agree with you that bible is fabricated (i have my reasons for this)
now to answer your q
one way as you said, you can say "religion is just theories"
but through these theories, If your able to convince a MASS of people based on belief facts
than its more than just a theory
If you ask me
i dont HAVE TO have proof for EVERYTHING i believe in
i am not just talking about religion
i know there is atoms,
i cant see them
BUT I KNOW they are there
smell - if you smell something
you KNOW there is the smell
you cant SEE the proof
but you can FEEL the proof
lot of religion comes down to FAITH
how much belief do you have...
i recently got a email
i thought it was very interesting
i will share
to be direct with your last questionCode:There was a young man who went overseas to study for
>quite a long time. When he returned, he asked his parents to find him a
>religious scholar or any expert who could answer his 3 questions. Finally,
>is parents were able to find a scholar.
>
>Young man: Who are you? Can you answer my
>questions?
>
>Scholar: insha-Allah (God willing), I will be able to answer your
>questions.
>
>Young man : Are you sure? A lot of Professors and
>experts were not able to answer my questions.
>
>Scholar: I will try my best, with the help
>Young Man: I have 3 questions:
> 1. Does God exist? If so, show me His shape.
> 2. What is takdir (fate)?
> 3. If shaitan (Devil) was created from the fire, why at the end he
>will be thrown to hell that also created from fire.
> It certainly will not hurt him at all, since Shaitan (Devil) and the hell
>were created from fire.
> Did God not think of it this far?
>
>Suddenly, the Scholar slapped the young man's face very hard.
>
>Young Man (feeling pain): Why do you get angry at me?
>
>Scholar: I am not angry. The slap is my answer to
>your three
>questions.
>
>Young Man: I really don't understand.
>
>Scholar: How do you feel after I slapped you?
>
>Young Man: Of course, I felt the pain.
>
>Scholar: So do you believe that pain exists?
>
>Young Man: Yes.
>Scholar: Show me the shape of the pain!
>
>Young Man: I cannot.
>
>Scholar: That is my first answer. All of us feel
>God's existence without being able to see His shape.
>
>Scholar: Last night, did you dream that you will be slapped by me?
>Young Man: No.
>
>Scholar: Did you ever think that you will get a slap
>from me, today?
>
>Young Man: No.
>
>Scholar: That is takdir (fate).
>
>Scholar: My hand that I used to slap you, what is it
>created from?
>Young Man: It is created from skin.
>Scholar: How about your face, what is it created
>from?
>
>Young Man: Skin.
>
>Scholar: How do you feel after I slapped you?
>
>
>Scholar: Even though Shaitan (Devil) and also the
>hell were created from the fire, if Allah wants, insha-Allah (God willing),
>the become a very painful place for Shaitan (Devil).
qur'an is written in classic arabic, and for the reason of losing its authenticity, it cant be changed to other languages,
so according to people that translated the verses related to the big bang theory
it exacly states "cant you see that the universe was once all once, and we ripped it apart, and we are expanding it "
thats low version of the english translation
and Qur'an is DIRECT word of God (according to muslims)
meaning its not inspired
whats IN it is what god said
where as bible is mans interpertation of what god said..
just few things am letting you know about my scripture so we are on the same page
by the way, i thougth that email was funny :)
Is this the rebirth of the bible threads? I was waiting for someone to bring this up again..
I'm going to start by answering the original question: What is meant by what Jesus said at John 14:6. I'll divide it up into sections:
"I am the way"
Jesus us the way through which we are to be saved. Check out John 10:9. Also look at Romans 5:2. If you truly believe in Jesus, then you also believe in God. And that is the first step in being "saved". (I really don't like that word, but that's what everyone is comfortable with.)
"and the truth"
John 1:17 clears this up pretty well. It says that "the truth came to be through Jesus Christ". Also, Jesus told Pilate in John 18:27 that he came "to bear witness to the truth". The truth is coming through Jesus. A major reason why he came was to tell the truth that has been so fogged up until then.
"and the life"
Jesus is the life because, through the sacrifice of his life, we have the hope of everlasting life. His life was payment for it. See John 17:3 and John 3:16.
Jesus can call himself the truth and the life in the same way as a prison guard can say that he is the prisoner's way out. (I've given bad illustrations in the past, but I hope this one works out.)
Now, onto the other things that have popped up..
Someone said that God doesn't care about us and that Jesus is just a go-between or something. I can't find the post anymore. If that is so, then why did God sacrifice his son, Jesus Christ, for us? God does care about us and there is much proof of it.
The existence of wars and food shortages and disasters and stuff does not mean that God doesn't exist. Jesus himself warned that all this would happen (See Luke 21:10). 2 Timothy 3:1-7 also describes the way people would be today.
I believe that science and religion can coexist. People keep trying to find places where science disproves what is said in the bible, but this isn't the way we should be looking at it. It hinges on the assumption that everything in science is factual and unchanging. Science is always changing. Something that is considered cold hard fact now can be later be considered a complete falsehood. Instead, we should be looking to see if things said in the bible disprove science. What is said in the bible will never change. For example, the bible says that there is a God. Is there any evidence in science that there isn't? Sure, people try to dig up evidence of evolution (I say try because, even now, evolution is only a theory.), but that doesn't prove that people couldn't have been created. The bible says that God always was and that he created the universe. Is there any proof against that?
me go sleep
we do this in the morning..
night all for now
Kovan: I only know the Anglican Bible so i cant really comment on what your scripture says!
So God wrote this scripture then?
I did i misinterpret your comment?
Quote "and Qur'an is DIRECT word of God (according to muslims)
meaning its not inspired
whats IN it is what god said
where as bible is mans interpertation of what god said.. "
If god didnt write it then it is an interpretation of what he said!
And subject to the writers views and beliefs.
Tygur: There is strong evidence of evolution take neanderthals and other examples of pre-modern man!
Are you saying that these were created by god then extinct by god?
Take the Jurrasic era? Did god make the creatures then?
No-one in the past and present has had the courage to stand up and hold another belief other than what the church said because the church has so much power and the human race follows most of the time whomever has the most power.
so you are saying that religion is just a way of filling in the gaps until science can figure it out....Quote:
Originally posted by kovan
but science doesnt explain everything
and thats where I feel, we humans need another way to have things explained to us, where science fails to do so
and thats religion
you lot take religion too seriously, when the bible is just a storey book & there's no proof that any of this crap exists.
I am God.
well, disprove me !
Ok, I think that people who have faith have 'God' in their hearts but as for the physical manifestation of a higher being. Well frankly it's a load of rubbish. Look deep within your soul and you will find 'God' It is the good bits about you. The happy parts of your life. Nothing more. 'God' is simple chemicals reacting together. It's a happy 'at peace' feeling. When you truly believe in something that is meant to calm and soothe you, your body would respond with making chemicals that soothe you and make you feel at peace. It's kind of like anti-depressants.
I could believe in Jesus.
I could believe in Pink Elephants.
It's good to believe :)
I agree. People need to believe in something, gives them something to live for. Personally i believe in myself, I exist, I control my life. No-one does it for me.Quote:
Originally posted by Bonker Gudd
I could believe in Jesus.
I could believe in Pink Elephants.
It's good to believe :)
I presume you meant to say 'Evolved' as opposed to 'Evaluated'? This is a misconception of evolutionary theory. We DID NOT evolve from monkeys. Monkey's DID NOT evolve from humans. Humans and Monkeys evolved from the same species (different to both modern humans and monkeys) that is now extinct.Quote:
If monkey was evaluated to man, how come there are sill monkey around?
You cannot see atoms but you can do experiments that detect and reveal their existance.Quote:
i know there is atoms,
i cant see them
BUT I KNOW they are there
smell - if you smell something
you KNOW there is the smell
you cant SEE the proof
but you can FEEL the proof
Although we cannot see or hear smells, we can detect minute particles in the air that cause the smell.
The same goes for pain. We cannot see the 'pain' itself but we can detect nerve signals travelling from the pain center to the brain.
All the above are detectable (albiet indirectly) phenomena. Can the same be said for God? Belief in God is pure faith and cannot be supported by indirect detection.
If you can believe that God has always been here (and wasn't created by anything else) then why can you not accept the possibility that the universe was always here?Quote:
Who made the earth? Who made the Universe?
Surely It can't be by luck that we are here.
So There must me god. And God Made Us! And That's The Fact!
I agree with this. Science sets out to understand the rules of nature. Religion sets out to achieve spiritual harmony. Never the twain should meet. If everbody realised this there would be a lot less argument. The rules of nature will never yield spiritual fulfillment. Biblical stories will never be a valid objection to scientific theories.Quote:
I believe that science and religion can coexist. People keep trying to find places where science disproves what is said in the bible, but this isn't the way we should be looking at it.
Brainless words. Forget I wrote something here.
Religion - the biggest killer in history. Period. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and others should respect them and leave them to get on with their lives. All the worlds problems come from people who interpret books like the bible. Wars are started because some scholar says that line such and such in the holy book translates to "Kill all heathens". Where do you think we learnt about racism in the first place ? I'm not blaming god, I'm blaming the so called wise men who translate god's words.
Let me ask a question - God's supposed to be a good guy right ? If that's the case do you think he'd wants to dictate every action you take in your entire life ? Does he want you to spend your entire life in misery, thinking you're a sinner ? Or is it more likely that god gave man freewill so that he can enjoy his life ? What's the point in life if you're too afraid to live it ? Religion has been used to frighten the masses and keep them in line too long.
He just wants you to believe in him and respect those around you. Not much to ask is it ?
I've used he in these rantings but it could easily be she or even it.
Do I believe in God ? Yes, i think so but not organised religion - that's for brainwashing the masses to accept what they're being told.
Right, that's my bit over with.
That's a little harsh. Did religion cause WWII ? It was idealism and an intolerance of others that caused that war.Quote:
Religion - the biggest killer in history. Period. Everyone is entitled to their own beliefs and others should respect them and leave them to get on with their lives. All the worlds problems come from people who interpret books like the bible. Wars are started because some scholar says that line such and such in the holy book translates to "Kill all heathens".
I don't think it is intrinsic in religion to cause wars. It is the absolution with which beliefs are held that leads to intolerance. It is malicious people interpreting holy text's to their own ends that leads people to war.
If people took a little more heed of what Jesus said regarding the judgment of others, the world would be a much better place. :)
Simon, I think that's what I said so I agree with you totally. The thing about religion being the biggest killer is a fact, not my rantings. WWII was a drop in the ocean compared with the millions that have died over thousands of years, right up to today. I'm not diminishing the effects of WWII here before anyone has a pop. It's just small fry by comparison.
There is no proof of God...or even that Jesus was REALLY the son of God. Yes there was a man named Jesus...Yes there is a bible.
Just to be on the TOTAL other side...
How Do you know that the Bible isnt just a "book"..it is a great 'Story' (yes I have read some of it) but maybe thats all it is...a great Story!
and Look at the con men today? how do we know that jesus wasnt some Con man and 'Illusionist' that made people think he was something special!??
(I know..thats a little far fetched)
but I have a hard time believing in god...when so many bad things happen in this world.
I believe in Fate...Everything from the time we are born till we die is written out....that is the path we follow.
IMHO :D
I also dont quite believe in Evolution either though...there is enough oddities to disprove things...so really
I DONT KNOW WHAT THE HELL (which doesnt exist) TO BELIEVE! LOL!
There has never been in the history of man a war like WWII. Never before have so many died in a single war. Never before was there fighting on every continent as it was the first real world war.Quote:
WWII was a drop in the ocean compared with the millions that have died over thousands of years
I've always asked people (who believe in fate) why they don't just jump off a cliff? It they manage it and get smashed to bits when they hit the bottom, it was fate so they couldn't have avoided it anyway. If it is fate that they shouldn't die, something will surely happen to prevent it?Quote:
I believe in Fate...Everything from the time we are born till we die is written out....that is the path we follow.
If you want to see evolution in action, just observe a bacterial or viral population evolve before your very eyes. Their life spans are so small that many generations pass in a (relatively) small amount of time. Why do you think antibiotics are becomming less and less effective? The strains of bacteria that are left after the rest are killed pass on their resistance to a new generation and this resistance is propegated.Quote:
I also dont quite believe in Evolution either though...there is enough oddities to disprove things...so really
How can anyone say it is just a theory with evidence like this?
I dont think they were saying a single war simon more the fact that over centuries religion has killed far more people then anything else all because 2 twats in what they call the house of god reckon forcing ppl to believe in what they believe in is a good idea.
This comes too my point that Churches are all about the control of masses of people and power. I really cant comprehend God wanting us to say this is a church thats were you will find god and religion but elsewhere it's ok. Bollocks if there's god he wants you do be out helping ppl or having a good time or something not in a church. Gods everywhere not in a church a church is a symbol. But dont let the vatican here you say that they'll start a war!
I agree simon evidence of evolution is all around us!
E.g What did we do b4 we talked? We evolved to comunicate with voices!
Er, actually, I always thought that alot more people died in WW I ...... I could be wrong, but thats what I remember learning.Quote:
Originally posted by simonm
There has never been in the history of man a war like WWII. Never before have so many died in a single war. Never before was there fighting on every continent as it was the first real world war.
Anyway, lets look at religions greatest hits (as far as I can remember them)
The Crusades, The "conversion" of South America to Christianity, All the British/Spanish/French battles since Henry the Eight got ex-communicated and started the Protestant faith (I think??), the Spartans and the Persians (both inspired by religous visions to conquer/repel the other), hey, and they're just off the top of my head, I'm sure I've missed some stonkers.
SD
Beacon,
You said that there is strong evidence of evolution. What if evolution was just God's tool? What if he set everything up so His creatures would just evolve and maybe tweaked a few things along the way? The bible doesn't explain exactly how He created everything. That's not why it was made.
If we evolved, aren't we supposed to develop adaptations and stuff as we need them? If so, why do we have brains with so much more capacity than we need? (I'm referring to all those statistics that state the we only use X percent of our brain.)
If Jesus was just a con man, then he was surely the greatest con man of all time.
The bible contains many predictions for the future that came true many years after they were written. And it even has some things foretold for now and the future as well. It is much more than just a storybook. Also, the things that happened in the bible completely agree with archaeology. What proof is there that it is just a collection of stories?
I don't think more people did die in WWI. Although many soldiers died in pointless charges at enenmy trenches, it simply wasn't on the same scale as WWII.Quote:
Er, actually, I always thought that alot more people died in WW I ...... I could be wrong, but thats what I remember learning.
Besides, WWI wasn't a religous war either.
All I'm saying here is that it is not religion itself that causes wars, it is the intolerant ideology (that often goes hand in hand with religion) that causes wars.
Yes, evolution might be just God's "Tool".Quote:
You said that there is strong evidence of evolution. What if evolution was just God's tool?
The point we were making is that it's not just a theory. You can see evolution at work all around us. OK, there are many things still left (currently) unexplained about nature (like human brains) but that is hardly reason to dispute the whole theory.
The predictions I have seen are so vague that it is not difficult to interpret them as predictions for subsequant events.Quote:
The bible contains many predictions for the future that came true many years after they were written. And it even has some things foretold for now and the future as well.
It always amazes me how easily Christians accept the "predictions" in the bible. If the future is predetermined (as it must be in order for predictions to exist) then surely that negates the possibility of free will (also a belief that christians hold dear)? How are we free to create our own destiny if it is already known to God?
Ok correct me if i am wrong, but didn't Hitler start the war by 'clensing' the world of Jews? If that ain't religious then i don't know what is.Quote:
Originally posted by simonm
I don't think more people did die in WWI. Although many soldiers died in pointless charges at enenmy trenches, it simply wasn't on the same scale as WWII.
Besides, WWI wasn't a religous war either.
All I'm saying here is that it is not religion itself that causes wars, it is the intolerant ideology (that often goes hand in hand with religion) that causes wars.
Yip. I just checked it up on the web and you're quite right, more people died in WWII than WWI. I stand corrected :)Quote:
Originally posted by simonm
I don't think more people did die in WWI. Although many soldiers died in pointless charges at enenmy trenches, it simply wasn't on the same scale as WWII.
SD
Quote:
Originally posted by Jamagei
Ok correct me if i am wrong, but didn't Hitler start the war by 'clensing' the world of Jews? If that ain't religious then i don't know what is.
Mmmm, yes, but it wasn't driven by Hitlers religon, so religon didn't really 'cause them to be killed. He was merely using a group of people to divert the frustrations and violence of the German people away from the government and onto an easily identifiable group of people.
It might have as easily been blacks, people with green eyes or brown hair. It's just that there were the right amount of Jews within Germany to serve his political purpose.
SD
No, he didn't start the war by clensing the world of Jews. He started the war by invading one too many of his neighbouring countries. He hated them as a race (like he hated the Russians) and not for their religion. He didn't believe he was on a holy mission.Quote:
Ok correct me if i am wrong, but didn't Hitler start the war by 'clensing' the world of Jews? If that ain't religious then i don't know what is.
Nice to know someone's checking up on me! :rolleyes:Quote:
Yip. I just checked it up on the web and you're quite right, more people died in WWII than WWI. I stand corrected
Isaiah named Cyrus as the person who would conquer Babylon and allow the israelites to rebuild the temple over one and a half centuries before he even came to power. (See Isaiah 44:28)Quote:
The predictions I have seen are so vague that it is not difficult to interpret them as predictions for subsequant events.
Jesus foretold the destruction of Jerusalem. In Luke 21:20-22, he says to leave Jerusalem when armies encamp around it. In the year 66, the Romans came and surrounded Jerusalem. Then they left for four years. During this time, nobody in Jerusalem knew they would be coming back. Everyone who listened to Jesus left. Then the Romans came back and seiged and eventually invaded the city. (Also look at Luke 19:43)
I don't think those are so vague.
About Evolution:
My knowledge on evolution is sketchy, so I can't really say too much about it. But it seems to me that it can still be wrong, because it still is a theory. But there does seem to be much proof of it.
It seems to me that evolution describes how animals/creatures change over time. But I don't think it describes how life started out, which is the critical point we need to look at. There is no proof that the first life form, whatever it was, couldn't have been created. And there is no proof, as far as I know, against the idea that the first humans were directly created.
I don't agree with that. The future is not predetermined and we definitely have free will, but the predictions do come true. There are many occasions of the bible that proves this. Do you think God chose to have Satan deceive the first man and woman? And do you think He would've made Satan if He knew Satan would rebel and oppose Him?Quote:
If the future is predetermined (as it must be in order for predictions to exist) then surely that negates the possibility of free will (also a belief that christians hold dear)? How are we free to create our own destiny if it is already known to God?
The way I see it, God can see what will happen. Sometimes He directly influences events. (Such as helping a nation win a war) Other times, he simply can forsee what people will do. Why wouldn't He be able to? He did create us, after all. Though it does seem that sometimes, people can do things that God doesn't expect. There have been kings of Israel that God later regretted appointing, for example.
Wasn't the bible written over an extended period of time. Couldn't this have been written after the event as further "proof"?Quote:
Originally posted by Tygur
Jesus foretold the destruction of Jerusalem. In Luke 21:20-22, he says to leave Jerusalem when armies encamp around it. In the year 66, the Romans came and surrounded Jerusalem. Then they left for four years. During this time, nobody in Jerusalem knew they would be coming back. Everyone who listened to Jesus left. Then the Romans came back and seiged and eventually invaded the city. (Also look at Luke 19:43)
SD
Your clearly not an aussie, hence you can't be god:cool:Quote:
Originally posted by alex_read
you lot take religion too seriously, when the bible is just a storey book & there's no proof that any of this crap exists.
I am God.
well, disprove me !
Tygur:
The bible reads something similar to this: (sorry i'm not upto date with my biblical numbers etc.)
Adam was created from the ground and Eve was created from adam!
Science has found that the first 2 cells that started the human evolution came from the ocean.
Taken from some New Scientist i was reading.
I also disagree with predictions etc. in the bible surely isnt it just how the bible was interpreted by many a person.
It's all to do with how the bible was written and how you interpret it's words!
Was it meant to be taken so seriously or just some well written advice on how best to lead your life! E.g Ten Commandments etc.
Tygur Give me proof that it's not just a collection of short stories!
Also whomever wrote about archaelogical proof to my knowledge no substancial proof has been found!
But i'm ready to be proved wrong.
on a run..
if anyone has any questions directly for me
please repost them
i dont have time to read this thread..
do repost questions that are directly for me
thanks
i will get back to you with answers to them
kovan,