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If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
I find it highly amusing that our beloved CDC tells us every year about this time (except this year, of course) OMG!!! You HAVE to get teh flu shotz!!! Are now telling us we "have absolutely nothing to worry about" getting the Ebola virus: "It's really, really hard to get. Trust us. We're the government and we know these things."
Meanwhile half the schools in Ohio are now closed because some nurse who treated the one guy who died (so far) flew to Akron for a weekend with her family. And no less than 800 people who flew on the 5 flights used by that same plane afterward are now being "closely monitored" by the same CDC.
Nothing to see here, folks. Move along...
So who's afraid of the big, bad Ebola virus?
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
afraid? No
Worried? No
Concerned? only slightly.
As usual, I think it (along with a lot of things most people - especially the media - doesn't understand) is being blown out of proportion.
It IS a problem, but I don't think it's the big virus scare it's being made out to be. Too much chicken little.
-tg
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
Ok, so if were going to play by that logic (school closing), don't drive your car because there was a fatal accident on the highway yesterday. Thats probably just a school district not wanting to deal with a lawsuit.
I am flying to NY/Boston in a few weeks so I am slightly concerned, but overall, more people die doing everyday things than Ebola (especially in America).
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
I am terrified by the possibility that I will die from choking on some food. Heck, that almost took out W (or was it the elder Bush?), so it's not exactly rare. Some people do seem more prone to choking than others, and I don't appear to be one of them, but if somebody found me dead in my house from choking on a chip, I'd be so embarrased I'd just die.
Ebola??? That's not even on the radar. However, if you are going to die of that then you should rush right out there an snog that nurse (ok class, let's use our new vocabulary word compliments of the Post Race...though I already knew it). What you REALLY don't want to do is be something like the 10th or 20th person to die of the disease. Everybody knows the first few, but after that you don't even make the news. What a damn shame to go and die of an exotic disease and have everybody be like, "meh!"
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
I think we just don't know enough about it in order to scale our reaction at an appropriate level.
Things already seem to be moving far beyond what people have been told the real risks are. But that doesn't mean the trend will accelerate either.
Clearly people living in ant farms like New York, Boston, Atlanta, Los Angeles, you name it have higher odds of encountering an infected person just through the sheer numbers. But that tilts radically for the individual living in Podunk, population 2350, as soon as Aid Worker Sally comes home for the holidays from her work in Africa carrying the disease.
I do wonder how many "prepper" types who had been ranking plague low on their threat assessments are now laying in stocks of masks, gloves, etc. suddenly though.
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dilettante
I think we just don't know enough about it in order to scale our reaction at an appropriate level.
Don't you mean a "suitably inappropriate level"? After all, people freak out over some of the hikes I go on, yet, from a statistical perspective, I'm in far greater danger driving to the trailhead than doing the actual hike.
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Shaggy Hiker
Don't you mean a "suitably inappropriate level"? After all, people freak out over some of the hikes I go on, yet, from a statistical perspective, I'm in far greater danger driving to the trailhead than doing the actual hike.
I'd be freaking out that a bear or something would chase me down. Do you carry anything defensive when you go out there?
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jayinthe813
I'd be freaking out that a bear or something would chase me down. Do you carry anything defensive when you go out there?
As some one who used to do a bit of wilderness camping & hiking... wildlife is usually the least of your problems.
-tg
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
jayinthe813
I'd be freaking out that a bear or something would chase me down. Do you carry anything defensive when you go out there?
After a couple days, my socks will knock birds out of the air if they pass within thirty feet.
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1 Attachment(s)
Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
Reminds me of some trailheads here with signage about not looking a bear in the eyes, trying to outrun one, etc. They never mentioned the "socks defense."
For good or ill the only bears we have here anymore are black bears, though the various brown subspecies were always very rare and then only in the far northwestern part of the State. "Officially" we never had brownies but native tradition and early voyageur and coureur de bois reports up there say otherwise.
Quote:
Black bear are generally fearful of humans and will leave if they are aware of your presence. In the rare circumstance that you encounter a bear that does not turn and leave, first try to scare it off by yelling while leaving a clear, unobstructed escape route for the bear. If the bear stands its ground, makes threatening sounds or bluff charges, you are too close. Take slow steps backward while continuing to talk to the bear in a stern tone. In the rare event of an attack, fight back with a backpack, stick or your bare hands. Black bears have retreated in similar situations.
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
Although it was not ebola it was concerning to read about here in my city
Salem Oregon new report.
I am currently not concerned at the present time but know what to do if things go South.
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Shaggy Hiker
I am terrified by the possibility that I will die from choking on some food. Heck, that almost took out W (or was it the elder Bush?), so it's not exactly rare. Some people do seem more prone to choking than others, and I don't appear to be one of them, but if somebody found me dead in my house from choking on a chip, I'd be so embarrased I'd just die.
Ebola??? That's not even on the radar. However, if you are going to die of that then you should rush right out there an snog that nurse (ok class, let's use our new vocabulary word compliments of the Post Race...though I already knew it). What you REALLY don't want to do is be something like the 10th or 20th person to die of the disease. Everybody knows the first few, but after that you don't even make the news. What a damn shame to go and die of an exotic disease and have everybody be like, "meh!"
How about Lou Gehrig? What are the odds of dying of a disease with the same name as you :eek:
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TysonLPrice
How about Lou Gehrig? What are the odds of dying of a disease with the same name as you :eek:
Yeah!! What are the odds of THAT?!?!?!?
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
Sars, Bird Flu, Swine Flu, Ebola... These things are like pokemon, gotta catch 'em, all.
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Shaggy Hiker
Yeah!! What are the odds of THAT?!?!?!?
Ironically, Lou had a lesser-known older brother named Allen, who contracted and died of the same condition. That's why, today, Lou Gehrig's disease is often referred to as AL's
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
It's just a scam, designed to keep people scared and controllable. Like "man-made global warming".
Don't you guys listen to the best podcast in the universe?
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
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Don't you guys listen to the best podcast in the universe?
No i have been busy listening to the best album in the world ever 2
Which is obviously Twice as good as 'the best album in the world ever 1'
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
Bears? Reminds me of my favorite part in Trailer Park Boys, 'f****d by bears'.
Most preppers (should) know that disease will be the biggest killer. Without access to even poor healthcare, a splinter could be literally deadly.
The ebola 'scare' should clue people that everything is all OK right up until...BAM! As with hurricanes, storms, the water issue up in Lake Erie a few months ago, things can get ugly very quickly, even downtown Civilization Central - not because of the issue itself, but because of the lack of preparedness of people.
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
Excellent find. I wonder if they'd like to run that ad these days?
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
There are some of you saying that the Ebola virus isn't a large priority, but i've heard that there are more than 4000 casualties from the virus. I know that there are worse things happening than that, but really? i mean.....still, SOMETHING'S gotta be done, people are dying....if people are dying from a matter....ANY matter...then it SHOULD be taken care of...right?
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
3998 of those 4000 were in W. Africa, where they've been battling it for years. There are a number of issues leading to the high numbers there. The biggest is a social one and a fear & distrust of the government.
The other 2 (if it's even that many) are the ones everyone are panicking over. It's not the pervasive epic pandemic people are making it out to be. It doesn't transmit easily. There's actually a greater threat from the flu than there is from ebola.
-tg
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
techgnome
3998 of those 4000 were in W. Africa, where they've been battling it for years. There are a number of issues leading to the high numbers there. The biggest is a social one and a fear & distrust of the government.
The other 2 (if it's even that many) are the ones everyone are panicking over. It's not the pervasive epic pandemic people are making it out to be. It doesn't transmit easily. There's actually a greater threat from the flu than there is from ebola.
-tg
Indeed.
The contracted cases in the US were from people directly involved in treating the patient, and not from some random contact.
The concern, of course, is that the people treating the patient followed procedure, had extreme PPE, and yet still contracted the virus. Of course, some are saying that they did not follow the procedure...
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
It may have already been mentioned but the news media love it for the 24 hour news value and ratings. Certain politicians are also using it to their advantage. Both do a disservice to us all.
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
Who woulda thunk that Faux News would be the voice of reason... so far this is the best report I've seen on the issue.
http://fox13now.com/2014/10/16/news-...needs-to-hear/
-tg
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
techgnome
I can't watch that at work...
Have they blamed Obama for it yet :bigyello:
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TysonLPrice
I can't watch that at work...
Have they blamed Obama for it yet :bigyello:
Of course... that's why he now has an Ebola Czar... I kid you not.
https://www.google.com/webhp?q=ebola%20czar
-tg
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
I'll view the link at home tonight...I'm not surprised. I don't know if the member is still active but one got mad at me for insulting Faux news as a sub standard "news" show for democrat\liberal haters. I could accept his\her points that just because I feel that way is no reason to slam other people. I left it at we agree to disagree.
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TysonLPrice
I'll view the link at home tonight...I'm not surprised. I don't know if the member is still active but one got mad at me for insulting Faux news as a sub standard "news" show for democrat\liberal haters. I could accept his\her points that just because I feel that way is no reason to slam other people. I left it at we agree to disagree.
When someone refers to Fox News as Faux News, repeatedly, it does come off as very childish and pedantic, essentially an Ad Hominem attack. While it can be used humorously, it does undermine any argument about an issue.
Back on point, what the heck is going on when we have a whole governmental department dedicated to this sort of thing, but we now need to appoint another individual to oversee the situation?
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SJWhiteley
When someone refers to Fox News as Faux News, repeatedly, it does come off as very childish and pedantic, essentially an Ad Hominem attack. While it can be used humorously, it does undermine any argument about an issue.
Back on point, what the heck is going on when we have a whole governmental department dedicated to this sort of thing, but we now need to appoint another individual to oversee the situation?
I had to look up ad hominem...I'm embarassed to say I'm guilty of that quite a bit. I'll need to watch that. Right after this post :D
Maybe it has something to do with the Republicans not allowing a surgeon general to get through the process?
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
Quote:
The concern, of course, is that the people treating the patient followed procedure, had extreme PPE, and yet still contracted the virus. Of course, some are saying that they did not follow the procedure...
By all account those Nurses hadn't been trained in how to remove there protective clothing properly (for infectious diseases of this nature it is very important how you remove and dispose of hospital garments). And it was this secondary transfer that infected them.
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Mister_Meh
There are some of you saying that the Ebola virus isn't a large priority, but i've heard that there are more than 4000 casualties from the virus. I know that there are worse things happening than that, but really? i mean.....still, SOMETHING'S gotta be done, people are dying....if people are dying from a matter....ANY matter...then it SHOULD be taken care of...right?
Yeah, it should, but that response has to be in Africa. You have to go to the source and deal with it there, which is happening...to an extent. HUGE amounts of money are being put up, but what is sorely lacking is medical personnel. The US army is building some big facilities that can treat hundreds, but which will require staffs of thousands to be effective. Finding those personnel is a different matter. Australia pledged a couple millions dollars to one agency/group. The group declined the money and said that they needed Australian medical staff far more desperately. Australia said no, last I heard. In this particular case, money is relatively easy, volunteers and medical help....not so easy.
A response exists, and it is a large response, but everybody is trying to avoid doing the icky part.
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
techgnome
I missed something you saw. That seemed reasonable and fair. I honestly believe it was a good piece.
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
Gee, I misread it. I thought he had appointed an Elbow czar. I wasn't sure if that had to do with the macaroni scandal from the US revolution, a commission on repetitive strain injuries, or something to do with plumbing, but I figured it had to be one of those. An Ebola czar in the US is a dangerous things. How many czars don't want to increase their power? None of the Russian ones, as far as I can tell. If an Ebola czar wanted to increase his power, wouldn't he want more than just two people infected with the bug in this country? Wouldn't he be motivated to smuggle this stuff all over the place, especially places with nice climates where you can spend time at the beach?
Mark my words, it's a dangerous thing. When ebola outbreaks begin occuring near Miami Beach on spring break, southern California, or at the playboy mansion...you'll know who's work it is. Power corrupts.
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Shaggy Hiker
Yeah, it should, but that response has to be in Africa. You have to go to the source and deal with it there, which is happening...to an extent. HUGE amounts of money are being put up, but what is sorely lacking is medical personnel. The US army is building some big facilities that can treat hundreds, but which will require staffs of thousands to be effective. Finding those personnel is a different matter. Australia pledged a couple millions dollars to one agency/group. The group declined the money and said that they needed Australian medical staff far more desperately. Australia said no, last I heard. In this particular case, money is relatively easy, volunteers and medical help....not so easy.
A response exists, and it is a large response, but everybody is trying to avoid doing the icky part.
hmm, i see. I remember reading once on WP.pl, a Polish news site that the Poles were doing some experimental Ebola vaccine or sumthin. Me being Polish, I have to look into this stuff :P
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
SJWhiteley
When someone refers to Fox News as Faux News, repeatedly, it does come off as very childish and pedantic, essentially an Ad Hominem attack. While it can be used humorously, it does undermine any argument about an issue.
Fans of Faux News and its negative agenda like to parrot things they've heard but do not actually understand:
Quote:
Ad hominem reasoning is not always fallacious, for example, when it relates to the credibility of statements of fact or when used in certain kinds of moral and practical reasoning.
Thus such things don't necessarily undermine an argument at all.
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
dilettante
Fans of Faux News and its negative agenda like to parrot things they've heard but do not actually understand:
Thus such things don't necessarily undermine an argument at all.
I’m new to the term “Ad Hominem reasoning” but the concepts can be seen in day to day arguments. It seems that you are using a piece of information that can be true, “Ad hominem reasoning is not always fallacious, for example, when it relates to the credibility of statements of fact or when used in certain kinds of moral and practical reasoning”, and applying it to something unrelated to prove a point.
I can parrot 2 + 2 = 4 all day long without understanding why it is true, but it is still true. Fans of Faux News and its negative agenda can parrot things they've heard but do not actually understand all day long, but that doesn't make them untrue.
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
I'd be more of a fan of ad hominy reasoning if I didn't find it so corny.
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
We live in a world of shorthand discussions. Technically 2+2 does NOT equal 4, except in certain situations where it does. However, we use the phrase as a shorthand for something everybody knows to be true. This shorthand approach, where we leave out the conditions necessary for the statement to be true (the lawyer-speak), makes it possible to communicate without being too boring, yet it makes a definitive statement out of things that aren't definitive.
I read a fundamentalist christian cartoon that attacked science using the phrase "opposites attract", as if it were an absolute rule in the world rather than a shorthand description (not complete) of how electromagnetic forces behave. They weren't being argumentative, they just didn't understand that the shorthand wasn't "THE LAW!", and built there argument on the assumption that it was.
Essentially, shorthand rules like that are convenient, but they also fail to communicate as well as we might hope. As long as people are a bit fuzzy with their understanding, it's fine, but those misunderstandings can cause mischief.
I'm not suggesting anything here, just musing. In the last post I tried to be a-musing, in this one I dropped the a.
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Shaggy Hiker
We live in a world of shorthand discussions. Technically 2+2 does NOT equal 4, except in certain situations where it does. However, we use the phrase as a shorthand for something everybody knows to be true. This shorthand approach, where we leave out the conditions necessary for the statement to be true (the lawyer-speak), makes it possible to communicate without being too boring, yet it makes a definitive statement out of things that aren't definitive.
I read a fundamentalist christian cartoon that attacked science using the phrase "opposites attract", as if it were an absolute rule in the world rather than a shorthand description (not complete) of how electromagnetic forces behave. They weren't being argumentative, they just didn't understand that the shorthand wasn't "THE LAW!", and built there argument on the assumption that it was.
Essentially, shorthand rules like that are convenient, but they also fail to communicate as well as we might hope. As long as people are a bit fuzzy with their understanding, it's fine, but those misunderstandings can cause mischief.
I'm not suggesting anything here, just musing. In the last post I tried to be a-musing, in this one I dropped the a.
OK...accepting that, is there any doubt in your mind what my point was? If in daily communication everything was broke down as you mentioned it would really slow communications up. For example if someone said to you "It's as plain as two plus two equals four", would you say "Technically NOT, except in certain situations where it does"? If you do I'll bet you don't get invited back to very many parties...
I'm just musing also. There are times were exact parameters are necessary for understanding. Programmers can be pendantic to the point it drives non IT people crazy. My post was trying to point out dilettante's use of part of the definition of Ad Hominem reasoning to prove a point was in fact false logic in it self as I see it.
But hell, if I'm wrong and off base it wouldn't be the first time I was all wet with egg on my face :blush:
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Shaggy Hiker
We live in a world of shorthand discussions. Technically 2+2 does NOT equal 4, except in certain situations where it does. However, we use the phrase as a shorthand for something everybody knows to be true. This shorthand approach, where we leave out the conditions necessary for the statement to be true (the lawyer-speak), makes it possible to communicate without being too boring, yet it makes a definitive statement out of things that aren't definitive.
I read a fundamentalist christian cartoon that attacked science using the phrase "opposites attract", as if it were an absolute rule in the world rather than a shorthand description (not complete) of how electromagnetic forces behave. They weren't being argumentative, they just didn't understand that the shorthand wasn't "THE LAW!", and built there argument on the assumption that it was.
Essentially, shorthand rules like that are convenient, but they also fail to communicate as well as we might hope. As long as people are a bit fuzzy with their understanding, it's fine, but those misunderstandings can cause mischief.
I'm not suggesting anything here, just musing. In the last post I tried to be a-musing, in this one I dropped the a.
Seemed like a long-winded way of saying "I reject your reality and substitute my own."
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TysonLPrice
OK...accepting that, is there any doubt in your mind what my point was? If in daily communication everything was broke down as you mentioned it would really slow communications up. For example if someone said to you "It's as plain as two plus two equals four", would you say "Technically NOT, except in certain situations where it does"? If you do I'll bet you don't get invited back to very many parties...
I'm just musing also. There are times were exact parameters are necessary for understanding. Programmers can be pendantic to the point it drives non IT people crazy. My post was trying to point out dilettante's use of part of the definition of Ad Hominem reasoning to prove a point was in fact false logic in it self as I see it.
But hell, if I'm wrong and off base it wouldn't be the first time I was all wet with egg on my face :blush:
Any one who was around in the early Intel days will be very familiar with the fact that 2 + 2 may or may not equal 4. But 2 just might equal 1.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
-tg
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
Quote:
Any one who was around in the early Intel days will be very familiar with the fact that 2 + 2 may or may not equal 4. But 2 just might equal 1.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
I'm not and a quick Google search didn't pull anything up other than "The Infamous .999... = 1" from here:
http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/55748.html
With a quick blurb being:
"By the way, there is nothing special about 1 as being a non-unique
decimal expansion. Here are a couple of others:
2 = 1.9999...
3.71 = 3.709999999...
2.778 = 2.77799999999999..."
Nothing about Intel in any of that. I seem to remember hearing about errors in an intel processor many years ago but not specifics. At any rate I'm terrible at math and the advanced extentions of it.
Do we at least agree we all exist? :p
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TysonLPrice
OK...accepting that, is there any doubt in your mind what my point was?
No, there was no doubt in MY mind, but that's kind of my point. We communicate well enough that we expect that we are getting through to 70-90% of the audience. We probably feel that we are getting through to 90% or better, but there's always a possibility that there's a segment of the audience that think they understood what we said, but didn't really understand what we meant to communicate. Still, either way, there is still that 'other' segment out there. Generally, we can ignore them...until they get their own microphone and we hear our message filtered through somebody elses incomprehension.
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
techgnome
Seemed like a long-winded way of saying "I reject your reality and substitute my own."
-tg
I didn't have time to write a short statement, so I wrote a long one.
By the way, I was thinking of water drops: Two water drops added to two more water drops results in one (bigger) water drop. In other words: 2 + 2 = 1
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
TysonLPrice
I'm not and a quick Google search didn't pull anything up other than "The Infamous .999... = 1" from here:
http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/55748.html
With a quick blurb being:
"By the way, there is nothing special about 1 as being a non-unique
decimal expansion. Here are a couple of others:
2 = 1.9999...
3.71 = 3.709999999...
2.778 = 2.77799999999999..."
Nothing about Intel in any of that. I seem to remember hearing about errors in an intel processor many years ago but not specifics. At any rate I'm terrible at math and the advanced extentions of it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pentium_FDIV_bug
Quote:
Do we at least agree we all exist? :p
We can agree that we think we exist... "I think, therefor I am." ??? But I guess it depends on if we take the blue pill or the red pill.
-tg
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
Shaggy Hiker
I didn't have time to write a short statement, so I wrote a long one.
By the way, I was thinking of water drops: Two water drops added to two more water drops results in one (bigger) water drop. In other words: 2 + 2 = 1
I remember seeing an algebraic equation once that showed that 2=1 ... not once did it break any algebra rules either. It started with the premise: A=B, B != 0... then it expanded it out, keeping both sides balanced, reduced it down, divided, simplified and you're left with 2=1 in the end. It all seemed very bizarre but looked like it worked.
-tg
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
I believe that was posted here on the forums at some point.
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
Quote:
But I guess it depends on if we take the blue pill or the red pill.
Heh, heh! :D
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
Quote:
"I think, therefor I am."
I love that statement because it's so often missunderstood and it's actually more apt to the discussion than some might realise. Descarte never meant it to be a philosphical statement but rather a logical one. He was looking for a single atomic truth which required no predicates but which could be used as a predicate for inferring further truths. He figured that if he could find such a truth he could ultimately infer the rules for the whole of reality. Notably he failed.
It's particularly apt to this discussion because it's an attempt to circumnavigate the issue that Shaggy's referring to. We build what appear to be logical arguments based on predicates we take to be truths. But if you examine those predicates you find they're based on further predicates and so on back until you inevitably arrive at assumptions. Any argument can ultimately be destroyed so we should probably all just forget about it and have a nice cup of tea and some biscuits.
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
Quote:
Originally Posted by
FunkyDexter
I love that statement because it's so often misunderstood and it's actually more apt to the discussion than some might realize. Descartes never meant it to be a philosophical statement but rather a logical one. He was looking for a single atomic truth which required no predicates but which could be used as a predicate for inferring further truths. He figured that if he could find such a truth he could ultimately infer the rules for the whole of reality. Notably he failed.
It's particularly apt to this discussion because it's an attempt to circumnavigate the issue that Shaggy's referring to. We build what appear to be logical arguments based on predicates we take to be truths. But if you examine those predicates you find they're based on further predicates and so on back until you inevitably arrive at assumptions. Any argument can ultimately be destroyed so we should probably all just forget about it and have a nice cup of tea and some biscuits.
Well, that wasn't lost on me which is why I posted "Do we at least agree we all exist? :o". I wanted to at least establish a baseline of understanding between us since we couldn't even agree on 2 + 2 = 4.
By now I'm sure, there is that assumptive thinking again, everyone has heard of the doctor with Ebola in NY city. That does not change my position that the risk of an Ebola epidemic in the U.S. is minimal at best. What bothers me is this guy is out bowling, riding subways, etc. knowing damn well he was treating Ebola victims in Africa recently. He was "watching" himself for symptoms. It seems to me that he of all people should have known better than to be doing that. And what about the people he works for? Are their head up their asses? At the very least, what real risk there was aside, just for appearances they should be setting the best
examples.
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
Quote:
But if you examine those predicates you find they're based on further predicates and so on back until you inevitably arrive at assumptions. Any argument can ultimately be destroyed...
Truth in human terms is not an absolute, normally it's the guys with the biggest guns that get to decide truth !!
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
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that wasn't lost on me
Yeah, I wasn't sure who would know the background and who wouldn't which is why I hedged with a "some". I suspect TG probably got it as well.
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we couldn't even agree on 2 + 2 = 4
Gotta love chitChat. Only a dangerous fool would want to mod it.:rolleyes:
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What bothers me is this guy is out bowling, riding subways, etc
I don't know much about it but that certainly does seem crazy. The incubation period is only 3 weeks max so a quarantine for such an obviously high-risk case seems like a no brainer. I caught an article on Radio 4 the other day about a returning nurse (I think) who'd put herself in a self imposed quarantine (I only caught half the story so the details are hazy). At the time I found myself thinking, "wait, why did that have to be self imposed?"
I still personally think this is low risk in the West and is really just a media scarathon for us. If you live in rural Africa, on the other hand, where the climate is perfect for virii and hygiene standards are much lower, then you should be worried about this.
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
I typoed my last post:
This:
That does change my position that the risk of an Ebola epidemic in the U.S. is minimal at best.
Should have been:
That does not change my position that the risk of an Ebola epidemic in the U.S. is minimal at best.
Amazing how one word can change the meaning of something.
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
There is a difference between the incubation period and the contagious period. Normally with infections you're most dangerous during the incubation period. With Ebola though, the contagious period doesn't show up until you start showing signs. It's possible to be exposed to it, w/o ever actually contracting it. Which is why anyone at the bowling alley, subway, etc where the most recent case went, are likely OK. From what I understand, Ebola has a very short surface life unlike influenza which can hang around a while. It also isn't airborne.
I know there have been a number of people (not here specifically, but in general on the interwebs) that think that ANYone that's been to Africa (yes, I've seen it as a generic blanket statement like that) should be banned from entering the country. That's not the right solution. But maybe a mandatory 30 day quarantine should be used. That covers the 21-day, plus a bit of a buffer, just in case. If after 30-days, if you're symptom free, great! Otherwise, stay home. I don't know that that would work any better or not, it does seem like a rational solution to me. After all, we quarantine animals coming from other countries.
I had something else I was going to say but after writing that much, I've forgotten what it was. Maybe if I remember later I'll post it. Seemed like it was a good idea at the time, which means it probably isn't.
-tg
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
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Originally Posted by
techgnome
There is a difference between the incubation period and the contagious period. Normally with infections you're most dangerous during the incubation period. With Ebola though, the contagious period doesn't show up until you start showing signs. It's possible to be exposed to it, w/o ever actually contracting it. Which is why anyone at the bowling alley, subway, etc where the most recent case went, are likely OK. From what I understand, Ebola has a very short surface life unlike influenza which can hang around a while. It also isn't airborne.
I know there have been a number of people (not here specifically, but in general on the interwebs) that think that ANYone that's been to Africa (yes, I've seen it as a generic blanket statement like that) should be banned from entering the country. That's not the right solution. But maybe a mandatory 30 day quarantine should be used. That covers the 21-day, plus a bit of a buffer, just in case. If after 30-days, if you're symptom free, great! Otherwise, stay home. I don't know that that would work any better or not, it does seem like a rational solution to me. After all, we quarantine animals coming from other countries.
I had something else I was going to say but after writing that much, I've forgotten what it was. Maybe if I remember later I'll post it. Seemed like it was a good idea at the time, which means it probably isn't.
-tg
Agreed but what was in the news this morning, and granted that may change, was he was out in public within hours of being sick. Meaning he was contagious and walking around in public. I probably don't know all the facts but based on that I think that was very irresponsible considering he is a doctor and was just recently treating ebola patients.
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
I'm not sure I'd advocate quarantining everyone who's been to Africa. I imagine the cost of that would be huge unless you quarantine them in their own home in which case you've got no guarantee they'd adhere to it without some expensive policing. Folks who've been treating ebola victims (in Africa or anywhere else for that matter) seems like an obvious high risk group to me and worth quarantining. I'm sure you could probably identify some other high risk groups as well.
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
What spreads FAR faster than Ebola is fear:
http://www.kxly.com/news/north-idaho...-trip/29267368
The basic story is a few teachers went on a trip to Texas, and a bunch of parents are freaking out. They want the teachers quantined, and some parents have held their kids home from school. Apparently, visiting the state of Texas is about as bad as visiting West Africa. Didn't somebody suggest restricting flights from Texas? Up here...people want that to be a reality.
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
I believe the 21 days is at a 95% confidence level - typically what is used in other disciplines.
Personally, I think there's a conspiracy not to use 4 weeks. Because 28 Days Later, or something...
If you thought you had ebola, would you 'turn yourself in'? What would you do? If you walked into an ER, and said I think I have ebola...
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
If there was a remote chance that I thought I had it, yup, I'd head down to the big hospital downtown (MUSC - they're the closest place that's equipped to handle cases if they need to) and check in. Sooner I'm seen, better chance I have of making it through. But I haven't traveled out of state, let alone out of the country. And I haven't come into close contact with any one that has.
-tg
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Re: If you like your Ebola, you can keep it
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Originally Posted by
SJWhiteley
Personally, I think there's a conspiracy not to use 4 weeks. Because 28 Days Later, or something...
Ooooo...I hadn't thought of that. Excellent observation.
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If you thought you had ebola, would you 'turn yourself in'? What would you do? If you walked into an ER, and said I think I have ebola...
If I wasn't concerned about the utter hysteria that would surround it, I'd claim I had it so that I could spend three weeks coding in peace. Except for the doggone SQL Server issue I'm having, at the moment, which has me on the net seeking answers (as opposed to just being on VBForums, which is my normal drug), I could use a few weeks uninterrupted about now.
