What measures do you have in place at your house to take care of intruders?

In our house, we have a Border Collie and a Pomeranian-Chihuahua who barks at the door when someone approaches the front door. We have a security system and weapons, and I keep my cellphone in my bedroom at night. In addition, our HOA has security guards who monitor the area by patrolling it and with security cameras (though I haven't seen one in our area). If the alarm goes off and I'm sure it's a burglar, I'll call 911 on my cellphone.

I have a door with a lock on it.

This reminds me of the latest episode of South Park. http://www.southparkstudios.com/full...e10-insecurity

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Originally Posted by baja_yu

I have a door with a lock on it.

This reminds me of the latest episode of South Park. http://www.southparkstudios.com/full...e10-insecurity

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Having a lock on your door is the first step.

Some basic tips:
1) Get an alarm system. It doesn't have to be monitored. Be sure to arm the system in the nighttime and when you leave the house. As a bonus, have a siren or bell installed outside your house to grab your neighbors' attention. Alternatively, you could keep your car key fob next to you at night, but you won't have an alarm system to protect your house when your car's gone.
2) Turn on your porch lights, and a light or TV or radio in the front part of the house. Having your porch lights on allows others to see that someone could be breaking in. Leaving a light or a TV or radio on in the front part of the house can fool burglars into thinking someone is awake and will intervene if they break in.
3) Elminate any potential spots for burglars to hide. This includes untrimmed bushes.
4) Get a big dog. Just don't get a pit bull. When they're aggressive, they're too aggressive. I've heard stories of innocent people being mauled by pit bulls.
5) Keep a weapon in your bedroom closet.
6) Establish a neighborhood watch program if there isn't already one. Contact the local police department or sheriff's office by dialing their non-emergency phone number. They should have an officer who is responsible for helping you establish one. If there is a neighborhood watch program, be an active participant. Report any suspicious activity to the police department or sheriff's office and, as your schedule permits, attend the program meetings.
7) Tell the PD or SO if you will be going on a trip. Tell them when you will leave and when you plan to be back. Tell them who is authorized to access your property so they don't mistake your dogsitter or lawn care company for a burglar. Give them their contact details and maybe a license plate number so they can verify that whoever is on your property is really an authorized person and not just someone who claims that they are who they say they are.

1. My car is in a garage not that near me.
2. I don't have a porch. I live in an apartment.
3. No bushes either.
4. I don't like the concept of dogs in the house/apartment.
5. I don't have a closet, and I don't see a need for a firearm.
6. Neighbors don't care and I have better things to do than talk to them.
7. I have a feeling they will laugh at me if I called them with that :)

To be honest, I'm really not that paranoid about it.

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Originally Posted by baja_yu

1. My car is in a garage not that near me.
2. I don't have a porch. I live in an apartment.
3. No bushes either.
4. I don't like the concept of dogs in the house/apartment.
5. I don't have a closet, and I don't see a need for a firearm.
6. Neighbors don't care and I have better things to do than talk to them.
7. I have a feeling they will laugh at me if I called them with that :)

To be honest, I'm really not that paranoid about it.

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1. I presume your apartment has armed guards watching the building. Am I correct? If so, just ignore tips 1 and 6.
2. You don't have to get a firearm, you can get a bat or other self defense weapon such as a taser. You never know if it will come in handy. (I happen to know someone who sells self-defense weapons - you can check out her catalog by clicking on the link.)
3. I doubt the police will laugh at such a request. The Bexar County Sheriff's Department in Texas does check on houses in the area if the resident of the house tells them he's going on vacation.

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Originally Posted by moonman239

1. I presume your apartment has armed guards watching the building. Am I correct?

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Unless our stripey friend lives in the US or South Africa, I think that's highly unlikely.

In the UK, we've just been told that we would be allowed to use disproportionate force on burglars, although using grossly disproportionate force would still be a criminal offence. The example they quoted was that we wouldn't be allowed to stab a burglar if he was already unconscious.

Unfortunately, that doesn't clarify whether I would be allowed to shoot a burglar who is impaled on the spikes in my pit trap if I get to him before he passes out from blood loss.

MM, life in the UK is not like life wherever you are (I'm guessing the downtown Basra?). Over here we're just too polite to burgle each other and we believe that any intruder into our home should be offered a cup of tea and possibly a biscuit. We wouldn't offer them an Abbey Crunch mind, a plain old Digestive would do. And they wouldn't get the best china either.

Honestly, from our persepective you come across as paranoid and a bit wierd. I rarely, if ever, lock the doors if I'm in, including when I'm asleep. I'm not going to leave TVs, radios and lights on because it's a waste of electricity. I'm not going to allow fear to dictate the layout of my garden. I don't have a weapon in the cupboard and would probably baulk at using it if I did, instead I'll take the proper British course of action of noisily getting up and walking downstairs veeeeeery slowly so the burglar's got plenty of time to run away before I get there. I'd quite like a dog but have to acknowledge that my lifestyle doesn't allow me to look after one propely so the cats'll have to do (mind you, they're pretty mean, you should see my shins). Neigbourhood Watch mostly happens out on the country where people read the Daily Mail so feel the need to protect themselves from immigrants who might give them cancer and cause global warming. And the police would definitely be bemused if I told them I was going away.

Here's a typical British break in (this is a true story that actually happened to me): I woke up at about 3am and could hear someone moving around and whispering outside my bedroom window (My room was at the back of the property, 1st floor) so I opened the curtains to see who was there. There were three guys in their early twenties in my back garden, clearly sizing up the kitchen window so I opened my window. They looked up at me, one of them said "Sorry mate, we didn't realise you were in" and they legged it. See, the system works.

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In the UK, we've just been told that we would be allowed to use disproportionate force on burglars, although using grossly disproportionate force would still be a criminal offence.

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I had to put my head in my hands when they announced that. Really, someone in the home office needs to look up the meaning of the word "proprtionate".

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Originally Posted by moonman239

1. I presume your apartment has armed guards watching the building. Am I correct? If so, just ignore tips 1 and 6.
2. You don't have to get a firearm, you can get a bat or other self defense weapon such as a taser. You never know if it will come in handy. (I happen to know someone who sells self-defense weapons - you can check out her catalog by clicking on the link.)
3. I doubt the police will laugh at such a request. The Bexar County Sheriff's Department in Texas does check on houses in the area if the resident of the house tells them he's going on vacation.

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Armed guards in the building? :) http://www.hulu.com/watch/317011

I think Moonman may live in California. I hadn't realized it was so bad there, as all of his posts in this thread make it sounds like he ought to spend his days hiding under the bed.

I live in an area that is considered relatively high crime for the valley. Somebody did break in and steal some kind of random stuff from my house, and I did put in a security system, but that was mostly because:

1) It was a geek project (wireless, a variety of sensors, lots of DIY).
2) The design of my house makes water leaks a serious risk, so the system has water sensors in the risky areas (I know more people who have suffered serious water damage from broken pipes than from damage from fire or burglary, though fire is a close second).
3) I go away a fair amount, so water and smoke sensors on the system are nice.

On the other hand, I have colleagues who don't lock their doors. While I don't go that far, I've left the garage wide open through the night on more than one occasion, and have never lost anything. Still, this place is much more dangerous than where I grew up. At one point, my parents drove me up to a trailhead on a trip that took three days. When they got home, they found that not only had they not locked the front door, they had left it wide open. The greatest danger would be that you might come home to find that a skunk had taken up residence under the bed. Skunks are much less common out here (though you might find a few mormon elders taking up residence).

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Originally Posted by FunkyDexter

Honestly, from our persepective you come across as paranoid and a bit wierd.

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He definitely does. My security is locking the door when I'm not home. If I am home, the door is unlocked.

I have a dog, but she would more likely play fetch with a burglar than attack them. I find it sad that there are places in the developed world (anywhere, really) where people live in as much fear as moonman.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying MM actually is paranoid and weird, just that his list came across that way:) His politics are definitely further to the right than mine but they still generally fall within the realm of rational.

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I find it sad that there are places in the developed world (anywhere, really) where people live in as much fear as moonman

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Oddly there are plenty of those places in the UK. We call these places "villages near London". Ironically these are also probably the safest places in the country to live but the residents read the Daily Mail way too much and are therefore convinced that all immigrants have cloven hooves and that global warming is caused by the European Union.

There are parts of the US that are pretty bad. Whether or not they are really bad, or the perception of being bad makes them bad, I can't say. When I was down in the Florida Keys, the doors of the house were rarely closed, let alone locked. There was a large Doberman in residence, that I would take for a walk before dawn most mornings. One morning I came out onto the porch with the dog, and found a guy standing there. He was a budy of the son of the lady who owned the house (I was just renting a room), but he had come into the house and the dog had done no more than raise his head for a look. I guess that does make him a watch dog, but not more than watch.

I would also like to nominate Moonman as Instigator of Chit Chat. Aside from a couple loonies, he's consistently started more diverse threads than anybody of late.

I have a firearm. When my husband and children were away and it was just me and my Dachshund Chihuahua, I slept with my 38 special under my pillow.

No, I do not consider myself paranoid. Just aware.

I live in CT. Crime is low where I live. However, crime was also low in Cheshire, CT until someone broke into a doctor's house while his wife and two daughters were home "alone" (without the man of the house) and I believe raped tortured and killed them (the killing I know for sure). I did not follow the story closely. Just know that it happened and no I don't want to read the book and discover what goes on in murderers' minds.

It doesn't take a high crime area. Just one or two sick people.

I've also considered bringing my gun to the movies from now on, but went to see Atlas Shrugged Part II Sunday and did not. And hey, I'm still alive. Which is nice, because my daughters were in the theater next door watching Frankenweenie.

But I think I digress...

Actually, that does wander into paranoia. There is a problem with our awareness: We pay attention to the wrong things. While you are at home, you can carry whatever you want, and stuff your house full of any assorted junk you feel will be helpful. I do, certainly, I just have my own set of choices as to what I feel will be helpful.

The place this really comes into play for me is hiking. The absolute amount of weight you should not exceed is about 25% of your body weight. Beyond that you probably aren't getting more fit, you are just wearing down. That puts a cap on the max weight you can carry, though the weight that would feel comfortable would be WAY lower than that. By that calculation, my max weight shouldn't exceed about 60 lbs. In practice, I probably can't exceed 45 for the size of my pack, and my base weight (minus water and food) is about 18. So, if I targeted a base weight of 20 lbs, should I carry a gun? A fair number of people do, but mostly they are misguided because they are worried about the wrong threat. A gun that would do me any good against the animals I might encounter would probably weigh a minimum of 5 lbs, or a full 25% of my base weight. It would be abusrd to allocate that much weight to a threat that is so incredibly minor. While it is entirely possible that I could be attacked and killed by a non-human animal, I have never had any encounters that caused me much alarm (except for a moose encounter, or two). Meanwhile, severe storms have dropped trees around me on two occasions, I've been struck by falling rocks on two occasions (both could have been deadly had they been just slightly different), and hypothermia has had plenty of opportunities. Nothing I could carry would protect me from the first two, but proper clothing would certainly protect from the last one. So, based on the odds of encounter, and the fact that there isn't a moose repellent spray on the market, if I was going to add an additional 25% to my base weight, it should really be clothing.

The same issue is true with 'home defense'. The reason most people are so alarmed by home invasions is not because they are common but because they are sensational. I heard about that case in CT, which says it all right there. There was a guy busted for DWI two days ago out here in Idaho, did you hear about that? Probably not, because it happens all over the place every day. Get one sensational murder of a white woman (you almost never get national coverage of the murder of a guy unless they are a celebrity, and rarely of any non-whites unless they are celebrities), and EVERYBODY covers it. If those incidents were common, that's ALL there would be time for in the news...except that they wouldn't get covered anymore. The very novelty of the crime causes all the alarm. Meanwhile, the death toll on our highways has been around 40,000/yr for most of the last two decades. You are VASTLY more likely to be killed or maimed every time you get in a car than ANYTHING you do at home, yet people sleep in fear and drive with confidence. If you are sufficiently scared of a home invasion that you would sleep with a gun under your pillow, you should be too afraid of driving to set foot in a car, yet I would bet that such is not the case.

We, as a people, simply can not evaluate risk properly, so we take precautions against the exceedingly rare, while largely ignoring the relatively likely. If you have ever talked on the phone while driving, that description applies to you most assuredly.

Interesting...

If you are sufficiently scared of a home invasion that you would sleep with a gun under your pillow, you should be too afraid of driving to set foot in a car, yet I would bet that such is not the case.

All I can say to that is it's easy to sleep with a gun under my pillow. It would be much more difficult never to drive anywhere. My quality of life would drop way down. I do not, however, talk on the phone and drive, unless someone calls me, I will answer, but it will be quick and not a conversation (such as when my daughter called yesterday to say she didn't have soccer practice). I realize it's the same risk if I am listening to an audio book and changing CD's (distraction). Those commercials where the sister of a girl who died in a car accident while texting shows you the last words her sister ever read were a text from the girl...had too much of an effect on me to be that careless. And how can I teach my girls not to do what they see me doing?

Do look out for those trees! (I also carry my firearm every morning while walking the dogs, but again, it's easy, and if we were to encounter a bear or a coyote, I'd probably just fire it in the air to scare the animal(s) away...and hope my dogs would come home eventually). Mainly this time of year, when it's dark at 6:00 in the morning, is when I have it on me. I'm not really expecting to get kidnapped.

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Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker

I think Moonman may live in California. I hadn't realized it was so bad there, as all of his posts in this thread make it sounds like he ought to spend his days hiding under the bed.

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Actually, I live in a presumably safe neighborhood - it's a gated community that is monitored by security guards.

A couple of armed terrorists did try to break in once. I told them I had Chuck Norris's number on speed dial and they drove away screaming like little girls. :lol:

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Originally Posted by MMock

It would be much more difficult never to drive anywhere. My quality of life would drop way down. I do not, however, talk on the phone and drive, unless someone calls me, I will answer, but it will be quick and not a conversation

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I'd have to say that I'm the same way. I try to go carless, at times, and have considered trying it for a week, but there are big chunks of time where it wouldn't be practical. My commute is 27 miles each way. I've done it by bike, but it is only viable for a few months out of the year when the sun is getting up by 6, as the ride is nearly 2 hours, and traffic gets pretty nasty by 8. It's also brutal riding home when the temps get up into the mid-90s, and I've never tried the ride in triple digits. Still, it would be a rough thing to do three times a week (telecommuting two days a week).

By the way, talking on the phone is probably a lot worse than listening to an audio book, and is certainly worse than listening to music. Two people talking in a car will have a conversation that ebbs and flows based on the driving conditions, but when talking on the phone, that can't happen. Some studies have shown that the difference is significant when it comes to attentive driving. Texting is FAR worse, but even talking isn't good. Hands-free is all the rage, but it's curing the wrong problem. Having one hand on the wheel isn't the issue, it's the pacing of the conversation causing distraction, which has nothing to do with your hands (for most people). I still answer some calls, though.

Studys have shown it's actually worse than drink driving and it's illegal without a hands free kit over here. I agree with Shaggy, though, they're solving the wrong problem.

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All I can say to that is it's easy to sleep with a gun under my pillow.

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I have an occasional tendancy to walk, talk, shout and once even destroy a built in wardrobe in my sleep. Putting a gun under my pillow probably wouldn't be the best idea. I think you raise a good point though, it's about cost/benefit. For you, although the benefit is small (in terms of the probability of actually needing to use it rather than any sense of security), so is the cost. For Shaggy the benefit is equally small but the cost is much greater. I think that's another difference between the US and UK though. Over here having a gun is a big deal; over there it's like having, well, lunch.

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Originally Posted by FunkyDexter

Over here having a gun is a big deal; over there it's like having, well, lunch.

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Sadly, yes, for the criminals too.

I just meant listening to an audio book is distracting when you have to change the disk. I don't believe the actual listening is distracting. But my box is usually on the floor, I'll reach down and open it and the ones I just stuck in and didn't put away properly spill out, etc!

ShaggyHiker - this is OT, but I used to love riding my bike to work. I think I was 20 miles away. Two hours was about what it took. At one point I had sold my car and my new one wasn't ready yet, so just about all week I cycled to work. Now I am 38 miles away and don't even know a back roads route (it's all highway), and once I was six miles away and did it once, there was a lot of traffic and it was almost too short to be worth it. I like getting my exercize in a practical way, like riding to work or walking the dogs, and I teach an aerobics class once a week so I exercize and work for pay at the same time.

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Originally Posted by FunkyDexter

Putting a gun under my pillow probably wouldn't be the best idea.

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No, I wouldn't recommend it in your case!

Somehow those replies got out of order, sorry.

And some day I will learn how to spell exercise. That is a mental block and I always spell it with a z. Well, hopefully it's British or something and no one will notice.

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Originally Posted by MMock

ShaggyHiker - this is OT,

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Why is that a problem. Aren't you required by the AUP to go off topic by your second post in any CC thread? I thought you got banned if you stayed on topic for three posts.

I just hiked the Metacomet Trail in CT. There are parts of that state that would be pretty fair biking, but I found that most of the roads lacked shoulders, and certainly didn't lack traffic. Backroads would be better, though. One advantage I have is that my commute is largely flat, so my pace can be pretty steady, and the route has a designated bike lane along most of it. The only part without the bike lane is currently pretty rural.

While I have never destroyed a wardrobe, either asleep or otherwise, the thought of literally having a gun under my pillow would be pretty disturbing to me. I often have my hand under the pillow, so the chance of accidental discharge seems a bit high....and don't go telling me that gets better with age.

Note to self - keep gun under husband's pillow (but only when he's out of town...)

Yes, our roads are full of hills and lack shoulders. The speed limit on the road (Hickory Hill) where I walk my dogs is 25 mph. I have to walk on this road to get to side streets. But since it's a main road, people drive at least 40. Some do not even slow down or give me a wide berth as they are passing. It seems like a sport to come just inches away from me and my dogs. It is on my to-do list to call the police and request a speed trap. And I haven't yet ridden bikes with my daughters on a regular road, just bike paths, because people in cars scare me.

Where is Metacomet? I've heard of it but can't recall the town. It was worth coming to CT for? We hiked Ampersand Mountain in NY state over the summer. Two hours up, one hour on the summit, two hours down. But we are not seasoned hikers.

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Originally Posted by MMock

Where is Metacomet? ...

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Ah, yes, the Heublein Tower.

Wow - 19.5 miles! That pales in comparison to our 2.7!

Wow!!!

I should add to your reputation just for that!

I have never, in my life, lived in an apartment complex that had an armed guard.

I think if I were being shown around to available apartments and passed armed security I would not, under any circumstances, actually rent from there.

(On a side note, I too have a dog. If my dog had opposable thumbs he would wrap up the family jewels and hand them to the burglar providing said burglar was armed with some Milk Bones.)

What is 19.5 miles? I think the whole Metacomet trail is aroudn 65. It ties into the 117 mile Metacomet-Monadnock Trail on the CT-MA border, which ties into the Monadnock-Sunapee Greenway on Mt. Monadnock in NH. The hike was around 230 miles, though I did manage to kill my camera battery the night before reaching Heublein Tower. That was a pretty awesome view, and I have no pictures of it, or for the next week following that day.

I was born in Hartford and we lived in Granby, I think. I certainly don't remember, as I moved to NH before I turned 1. Growing up in NH, I heard about the Metacomet-Monadnock trail, and didn't think it really existed as a trail. A couple years back I decided to Google it, and found there was a trail to hike, so I decided to come back and hike it after I finished the Colorado Trail. The Monadnock-Sunapee Greenway was the first long distance, solo, hike I ever did, which was back in 86, so it was interesting to revisit that after all these years.

I was born in Hartford too! When is your birthday? Maybe our moms were roommates! (Just kidding on the personal stuff...)

I don't know, I googled Metacomet Trail and it said 19.5 mi (just tried to re-google but can't find where I landed before), but I see now I underestimated you even though that impressed me.

My mother didn't have time to be anybodies roommate. I was born in 1967 on a hot, very early, July morning. I was hungry from T - 1 minute, and have generally remained so ever since. I hike to allow myself to eat in the manner to which I have become accustomed.

I beat you by five years anyway.

Long winded here and perhaps slightly off topic

I had one invader while away; daughter (16 years old at the time) was sitting on the living room couch with a window behind her. Arm comes thru the window, daughter screams, invader keeps coming thru the window, daughter runs to the gun safe which is push button, pulls out a shotgun and runs back to meet the uninvited person and bellows out commands which in the end has him face down, palms up and head turned away from her. She then called the police, which in turn called me. What was funny was what the police officer told me. Kevin, Katrina scared the crap out of the man attempting to get into your place. He also said when they arrived she had the shotgun lying on the kitchen table with her hands lightly holding it (I taught her this, call it “politely greeting the police”) ready to use if he moved but moved back as they arrived.

Back in 2002, I just arrived home from New Hampshire, which was a 3.5-day drive across country to Oregon. Got home and jumped into bed without undressed and no sooner I hear strange sounds outside but decide to ignore them until something sounds terribly wrong. I go outside, shine my flashlight to where the noise is coming from, and find a gang of teenagers beating the daylights out of someone. I distinctly remember saying “What are you doing?” and one replies back with “None of your concern” which I replied back with “This is my neighborhood and you are not part of it so I have a right to ask”. No sooner then I shut my mouth they stop beating the teenager and head in my direction. I pop back into the open front door and pull out a BushMaster with attached flashlight. They see it and several back off while two others kept coming. Once they crossed the street and hit my front lawn, I noticed one had a rather large knife. My response was to yell out “STOP, STAY WERE YOU ARE” but they did not and I met the first one with the butt of my rifle in the upper chest area. One is down while the other said something in Spanish and took off. The teenager who was being attacked came over and thanked me for helping him. This entire time I later find out that several neighbors woke up and watched but did not call the police, which I had to do. Oh and the teenager being attacked was being attacked because he entered another gangs area so there were really no good guys between them.

Several months later (I did not know it at the time) one of the gang members was slicing up a woman (must had been a girlfriend or wife) while yet again neighbors stood by watching. I walk over, draw my 1911 and yell out for him to stop just as the police arrive. The responding officer is one of my students so he announces who he is as he walks up to the scene draws his taser and issues commands for the man to drop the knife.

So what does this all have to do with the best way to protect your home? There is a bit of humor here, each of the incidents above were from the same gang and they must have caught on that I was not one to mess with which I got from hearing a group of men saying “there goes Rambo” as I was walking down the street sometime after the above happened.

For those who are unaware that I teach civilians, law enforcement and military firearms, knife counter-knife, cane, baton and my specialty empty hand combatives. Even with these skills I know it is wise to have my house secure especially when away from home so I have setup a system which is only known to my wife and children.

My advice for the average person which rules out anything to do with firearms as not every place allows them i.e. New York City there is the Sullivan act or the Castle Doctrine to contend with is to do the following if you live in an area known for crime such as home invasions.

For the home reinforce the hinges and doorframes as standard ones will not last long from someone attempting to kick them in, especially back doors. Install good bolt style locks. Make one room a safe room, which has a door setup similar to what I just suggested. Depending on how deep down the rabbit hole you want to head have a system in this room, which can turn on all major lights in the house. Put your house keys on a glow stick so when the police arrive you can break the stick; toss it to the responding officers so they can get past your reinforced door. Another tip is never open your door to a stranger. My wife will always turn on the front lights then look into a surveillance camera which allow her to navigate the camera 180 degrees. What you are looking for is someone hiding to the side of the door, get the picture. Always have a plan if someone breaks in to your home. Example, you hear a load sound and wake up, pull out your trusty shotgun and follow the sound. You get to your back patio door where there is a fat naked man pounding on the door saying let me in using some colorful words. You tell him you are calling the police which makes him madder and breaks the door down, heads at you and you pull the trigger killing him. The sad part is he was a neighbor (in today’s world many don’t know their neighbors), all houses are cookie cut and look the same. Many will say you have the right to shoot this man down but there are alternates to this which is why you need a plan, I have one for my family, do you?

Any ways I seem to either attract bad things or head first into them when there is no other choice and with that said have a good deal of experience dealing with the worst that humanity has to offer which is why I teach classes each week and never surprised at how many sheeple rather than wolves are out there thinking the police are there to save them. The police in short many times are there to clean up afterwards in regards to home invasions.


My site http://kevininstructor.home.comcast....vininstructor/
One of the groups I teach for http://www.jimjacobe.com/

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While I have never destroyed a wardrobe

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I have to say, it was a pretty freaky experience waking up to find it in splinters all over my room. I'd actually ripped it out of the wall (it was plastered in) and reduced it to shards. I'm not normally a very physical guy and am, all told, a bit weedy really so it must have taken some real effort and quite a long time. And nobody else in the house (shared student digs) even woke up. It's possible I was the victim of an alien abduction. Flippancy apart, discovering your capable of that much violence in your sleep is a pretty sobering experience. Thankfully, I've never done anything else like that but apparently I have some pretty bad night terrors that involve thrashing and screaming.

The sleep walking's pretty weird too. I once walked in to my house-mates room buck naked in the middle of the night and stood at the end of his bed. When he woke up said "what the f... are you doing in here?" I mumbled "looking for the door", turned round and left. To his credit he didn't move out the next day.

I think I must be surpressing some dark memory from my childhood. Jim never fixed it for me but I did go to an all boys boarding school so ya never know.

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the chance of accidental discharge seems a bit high....and don't go telling me that gets better with age

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ahem, not since I was a teenager:eek:

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I'll reach down and open it and the ones I just stuck in and didn't put away properly spill out, etc!

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Yeah, I've had that experience. Worse is when you buy a takeaway and the bag falls over spilling curry all over the seat.

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Originally Posted by moonman239

In our house, we have a Border Collie and a Pomeranian-Chihuahua who barks at the door when someone approaches the front door. We have a security system and weapons, and I keep my cellphone in my bedroom at night. In addition, our HOA has security guards who monitor the area by patrolling it and with security cameras (though I haven't seen one in our area). If the alarm goes off and I'm sure it's a burglar, I'll call 911 on my cellphone.

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I live in Florida, and I have a nice gun collection.

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Originally Posted by kevininstructor

Always have a plan if someone breaks in to your home. Example, you hear a load sound and wake up, pull out your trusty shotgun and follow the sound. You get to your back patio door where there is a fat naked man pounding on the door saying let me in using some colorful words. You tell him you are calling the police which makes him madder and breaks the door down, heads at you and you pull the trigger killing him. The sad part is he was a neighbor (in today’s world many don’t know their neighbors), all houses are cookie cut and look the same. Many will say you have the right to shoot this man down but there are alternates to this which is why you need a plan, I have one for my family, do you?

I seem to either attract bad things or head first into them when there is no other choice and with that said have a good deal of experience dealing with the worst that humanity has to offer which is why I teach classes each week and never surprised at how many sheeple rather than wolves are out there thinking the police are there to save them. The police in short many times are there to clean up afterwards in regards to home invasions.

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1) In the event of an intrusion, the general advice is not to leave the room unless you have to. The SWAT team has a few advantages that you don't. They work as a group. They wear armor. They have more training than you do. In a nutshell, their combined effort is better than what you can do.

2) Maybe you should consider living near a police station or in some other well-supervised area. I imagine those areas tend to be the safest.

The SWAT team?! Seriously, where do you live when an intruder has to be handled by the SWAT team? May I suggest Seal Team 6 instead.

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Originally Posted by baja_yu

The SWAT team?! Seriously, where do you live when an intruder has to be handled by the SWAT team? May I suggest Seal Team 6 instead.

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Well, OK. The police in general have better training than he does. They'll dispatch SWAT if the regular police can't handle the situation themselves.

The difference between a regular cop and a SWAT officer is that a SWAT officer has more training. And more armor.

Sometimes, the SWAT officer performs the duties of a regular cop. I happen to "know" a local sheriff's deputy who does. I guess it all depends on the department's policy.

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Originally Posted by moonman239

1) In the event of an intrusion, the general advice is not to leave the room unless you have to. The SWAT team has a few advantages that you don't. They work as a group. They wear armor. They have more training than you do. In a nutshell, their combined effort is better than what you can do.

2) Maybe you should consider living near a police station or in some other well-supervised area. I imagine those areas tend to be the safest.

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Thanks for your thoughts...

In case you missed it I train police and military; firearms, empty-hand combatives, baton, handcuffing, active shooter and similar situation. Don't get much call for it but tactical driving also. Besides format and real life training I participate in several groups that go to extreme levels of training best to say those who engage in these classes are truly tested and sometimes leave injured yet better off for it.

In regards to staying in the room and not leaving and SWAT.
a) I have police training at instructor level, worked in live situations with LEO.
b) I have body armor, keep a semi-auto Remington 12G shotgun, Kimber full-size 1911 and AR in my bedroom

All of this spans thirty plus years which I bring up because expereince places a huge roll since simply having attended self-defense classes does not mean you are going to be the person surviving an encounter. Just today I did what I call CQB class which teaches basics of empty hand combatives. The techniques are easy to learn yet does not mean that a student can go out and expect to come out on top but with practice increases coming out on top. Note that I have avoided saying winning or victor as there are none in a violent encounter generally speaking. Any ways after class is over I have the students rest for rough 30 minutes than challenge them with what I have taught them and encourge them to try to defeat me using any means possible. Before we start I do tell them the purpose is to show why they don't want to get to ahead of them self as a season bad guy who has been in prision trains many times like a Sparton. So going back to say not coming out of the bedroom with an intruder is not wise for them. What I have taught is good but as mentioned before needs practice which is why several times a month I hold free training sessions to allow students to practice in the event they don't have training parnters. Lastly what I teach in empty hand combatives is what I like to think as the best of MA and street fighting. Tomorrow I am teaching a tool called the LLC. Safe to say I am not your average developer.

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Originally Posted by moonman239

Well, OK. The police in general have better training than he does. They'll dispatch SWAT if the regular police can't handle the situation themselves.

The difference between a regular cop and a SWAT officer is that a SWAT officer has more training. And more armor.

Sometimes, the SWAT officer performs the duties of a regular cop. I happen to "know" a local sheriff's deputy who does. I guess it all depends on the department's policy.

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One more thing, in most areas SWAT is not called for home invasions. What generally happens is a unit with a police dog is used, police stay outside and allow the dog to do the core work.

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Originally Posted by moonman239

Well, OK. The police in general have better training than he does.

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Just caught this, see my other post, I train LEO.

Heck, I caught that.

The only thing I could think of from all these posts are a series of puns. I guess everybody goes back to their training in the right situation.

I did a fair amount of MA back in NH, but by now, I have so many joints that are doubtful that I'm not sure I want to deal with it. Perhaps the reason that we die is just because the wear and tear gets to the point where it's just the best option.

well, i consider my security system just fine, there is always someone at home, and we live countryside so, few, if any people will attempt to steal anything, also got a katana, but i doubt i will ever use it.

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Originally Posted by thebuffalo

I live in Florida, and I have a nice gun collection.

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Better keep your doors locked, then :P

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Originally Posted by SJWhiteley

Better keep your doors locked, then :P

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Haha I don't worry too much. Intruders don't have a high success rate for occupied homes in my area.

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Originally Posted by thebuffalo

I live in Florida, and I have a nice gun collection.

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Does your last name happen to be Zimmerman? :lol:

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Originally Posted by moonman239

Does your last name happen to be Zimmerman? :lol:

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No but I fully believe he was in the right, if some strange ghetto looking young man approached me violently I would take full advantage of my right to self defense.

Self defense, yes. But didn't Zimmerman actually follow the kid, in spite being told by the Police not to do so? This isn't a rhetorical question, I didn't follow the case very closely.

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Originally Posted by baja_yu

Self defense, yes. But didn't Zimmerman actually follow the kid, in spite being told by the Police not to do so? This isn't a rhetorical question, I didn't follow the case very closely.

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Not sure at all, but I know from experience that people that grow up in the wrong parts of Florida tend to do very stupid things. I've been sitting at my friends apartment and his door got kicked in by 2 masked men with shotguns, turns out they had the wrong apartment number.

Just yesterday I had a man about 6'4" 220 come to my door with an angry attitude looking for a Kevin, no Kevin happens to live at my house. Very thug looking guy, I keep a baseball bat behind the door, and a 9mm in a jacket pocket next to the door for situations like this. I imagine he will actually watch my house to be sure that this Kevin he is searching for doesn't live there.

People should realize that Florida is not like the rest of the known world. I lived there for nearly five years, and was constantly struck by the very strangeness of the place. For instance, I always thought that Miami Vice was just another TV show, until I moved down there and realized it was a documentary. You have to accept the surreal when you live there.

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Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker

People should realize that Florida is not like the rest of the known world. I lived there for nearly five years, and was constantly struck by the very strangeness of the place. For instance, I always thought that Miami Vice was just another TV show, until I moved down there and realized it was a documentary. You have to accept the surreal when you live there.

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I think I finally understand about the Hot Dog vendors, I saw a few in Tampa around Channelside.

a PIR based system with sensors on all doors and windows to detect motion, front door has a microwave and PIR sensor to detect human presence, addtionaly each sensor is connected to a bright light that switches ON when human presence is detected.

Some doors have an IR camera that clicks takes a photo of the intruder, this camera does not need ambient light and works very well in the dark. The photo from each camera unit is collected wirelessly and sent to a webserver for later analysis...

Also each sensor triggers a loud alarm to scare of intruders, the alarm sounds for a few seconds then switches OFF.

Attachment 92749
This works fine.

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Originally Posted by moonman239

In our house, we have a Border Collie and a Pomeranian-Chihuahua who barks at the door when someone approaches the front door. We have a security system and weapons, and I keep my cellphone in my bedroom at night. In addition, our HOA has security guards who monitor the area by patrolling it and with security cameras (though I haven't seen one in our area). If the alarm goes off and I'm sure it's a burglar, I'll call 911 on my cellphone.

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I'll raise you two chihuahuas, three cats, roller-shutters on nearly every window and screen doors.

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Originally Posted by Nightwalker83

... roller-shutters on nearly every window and screen doors.

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I stayed with someone in Belgium, and they had roller shutters. They closed them every night (!) and set the down stairs motion sensor - warning me not to go down stairs... Honestly, I found that really creepy: the sense of locking oneself in an enclosed space just seemed a bit much. I couldn't wait to leave.

How do others feel about shutters as a protective measure? (I'd get some for hurricanes and weather - I'll do that when I get a house built - or when being away for an extended period).

It's very retro. I've been reading a book on what life was like prior to the advent of artificial lighting. Locking oneself into their house was the thing to do at night for a large swath of the people. We have gone back to that, or perhaps we never left it.

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Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker

It's very retro. I've been reading a book on what life was like prior to the advent of artificial lighting. Locking oneself into their house was the thing to do at night for a large swath of the people. We have gone back to that, or perhaps we never left it.

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I agree with you, before artificial light people went to bed much earlier than in current times. Many wars were fought in the day time and soldiers rested in the evening. Times sure have changed, five hour energy drinks, people staying up at all hours of the day and night. I remember disliking Sunday because many stores would not be open. Now we can get almost anything no matter what day or time of day it is. Of course we provide criminals with more opportunities at o’ dark thirty at ATM machines, store dimly light parking lots etc. For a time many left doors unlocked, keys in their cars but I think we have done exactly what you say, gone back to locking things up seemingly like we never stopped.

There are still places in this country where people leave doors unlocked, or even open, but those places do seem to be dwindling and never increasing.

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Better keep your doors locked, then :P

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maybe if you banned Guns people wouldn't get shot so much...... (ducks from the expected gun fire from outraged Americans)

I doubt it would matter, other than changing the types of injuries.

Prior to the Civil War, there was a large segment of the US South that had a very violent, dueling, culture. This appeared to have been driven by a touchy sense of honor. Conflicts were resolved in ways that only differed by the types of weapons employed. Some say that this culture allowed the South to do as well as it did in the Civil War, though I think it has more to do with the failure of a few northern generals.

However, that culture still survives in a only slightly diluted fashion. I would expect that banning guns would reduce certain types of shootings (accidental, mostly), but nothing more than that.

I wonder how many of these small, fearful people cowering behind firearms end up blowing their own feet off or worse?

Excerpt from "Pioneer Recollections Semi-Historic Side Lights on The Early Days of Lansing"

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1847

Serenaded every night in summer by the denizens of an immense frog pond near the cabin and with clouds of mosquitoes indoors and outdoors adding their plaintive thrills to the grand jubilee of welcome to the “early pioneer”—these and other romantic sights and sounds, such as the snarling of wolves, the distant cry of the panther—like a woman in distress—and watching the pretty deer as they fearlessly browsed among the newly made brush heaps, made for us a new and novel experience.

Had No Firearms.

These deer were perfectly safe, as far as we were concerned, not a gun on the place, and not a man who knew how to shoot one if we had it. I have heard father say that he never shot but one gun in his life, an old musket, when backed up against a brick wall. The wall seemed to stand the shock well—not so with father.

We were, however, frightened later on, when one evening in early winter the cabin door opened softly and in stalked four big Indians, who, after giving the usual grunt, proceeded to spread their blankets upon the clay earth and lie down, heads to the fire, and remain quietly there until morning. Rising at the first peep of day, they filed out in the same order as they came in, giving us again the grunt. It is needless to say that the only sleeping done in the cabin that night was by those four Indians.

Indians Frequently Called.

We soon found that all our fears were needless as we were frequently visited in like manner, as night would sometimes overtake the Indians when tracking bears. The animals had a long and well-beaten run-way from northern Wisconsin, south to the head of Lake Michigan and then northeasterly, coming through the “Old Maid's” swamp at the head of the Thornapple, and crossing the state road—now Saginaw street—passing through the Chandler, or “Big” marsh, and then north through the Saginaw valley to the straits. They were certainly not in pursuit of deer for they could pick them up almost anywhere in those days. I have seen bears on this same run-way, but never felt like interfering with their progress.

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Yes, Joe Gun Nut would probably crap his pants living in pioneer times.

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Originally Posted by NeedSomeAnswers

maybe if you banned Guns people wouldn't get shot so much...... (ducks from the expected gun fire from outraged Americans)

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That is a thought among many but does not solve anything. Look at countries where firearms have been banned. Nothing will change the mind-set of people with bad intent.
Firearms many differ from cave men weapons by the distance one needs to be removed from the person who they aim to harm while cave man tools i.e. edge tools to impact weapons require closing the distance. A percentage of bad people will not want to get up close and personal but instead will at a different angle, sneak up and attack rather than head on. Then some will give up but that is a small percent. Lastly never under estimate a man with bad intent without any tools/weapons when his prey is a sheep.

Good read On Sheep, Wolves and Sheepdogs by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman
On Killing by Lt. Col. Dave Grossman
The Gift of Fear and Other Survival Signals that Protect Us From Violence by Gavin de Becker

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Originally Posted by dilettante

Yes, Joe Gun Nut would probably crap his pants living in pioneer times.

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I agree with that.