Sentience: VB Game (comments please)

Hullo y'all!

Many moons have passed since this thread was first started and a lot of the first few pages are largely irrelevant now. Feel free to skip to the last page to catch up on the late breaking news and bug reports...

My partner in crime, Behemoth, and I have been plugging away for the last few months writing a turn based strategy game.

It's got to the point now where, although it's not fully functional, we think we may benefit from other peoples views on it.

We'd like as many people as possible to download this and have a play around, then let us know what you think.

So far, there isn't a huge amount of practical things you can do, but we could do with comments on the layout, features and earth shattering bugs in the game.

There is a very limited amount of combat working, research, loads of screens and fiddly things.

To move units around, simply click on them and use the numeric keypad to move them, to attack an enemy unit, just try walking over it. All units currently have infinite move (for testing).

Play with as many clicky things as you can, in fact, go on a clicking frenzy.

Tip - to explore the whole map automatically, click on a unit and enter '@' .

Please reply with as many constructive criticisms as you can - we're seriously trying to write a half decent game here (in VB as well!!!)

You'll need the VB6 runtimes (you all should have them...) and DirectX7 (for the sound). You shouldn't require anything else. Please see the text file with the zips for installation instuctions.

Here's the link:

www.btinternet.com/~bstap

Thanks guys!

Hey Arbiter!

A help file for the game would be appreciated, as well as a storyline to tell what the game is about. The option menus at the start (before you are in the game) don't work, and the only map setting you can change is the first one (in the few, normal, many categories).

Also, It would be better if you had a mouse interface for movement so it would plot a path, if you couldnt move diagonally (as this lets you skip between continents), and if you didnt have unlimited movement.

Other than that, I liked the game! The graphics are excellent.

These are just the bugs, I'm not saying that I dont like the game.

I will check it later, got to go for an interview this morning though.

Sastraxi, he said the unlimited movement was just for testing :rolleyes:

Sastraxi,

Thanks for taking the time to look at the game. It's far from complete but the framework is all there and now we're plugging functionality into it left right and centre.

There are a few buttons within the game that have no functionality (including the options, as you say). We're working on a help file at the moment, but the sheer depth of the game (which isn't really visible at the moment) means the manual is going to be pretty hefty and is taking a while to write!

All the options relating to the map settings can be configured, just not using the buttons (which are dummies and do nothing yet). If you manually change the settings using the text boxes to the right of the screen you can really configure the map to some detail.

Try making a fairly large map (250*250 - will take some time if on a slow machine), apply the explore everything cheat thing (click a unit and press the '@' key) and then looking at the world map (click the menu button on the main game screen and select world map - may also take some time on slow machines). This really shows off the map generator algorithm!

Pathfinding will come later for the units, it's quite a big thing and I have to try and get my head round it first, but it will be coming.

Behemoth takes full credit for the graphics, even I was impressed by what he'd done, and that takes some doing. I don't let him know that though... ;)

HarryW,

Good luck with your interview!

Game looks great.
Looks like it has a lot of potential too.

Im just totally confused as to what you're supposed to be doing in it :)

- jamie

Errrmmm... yeah, you have a point.

As mentioned, there is no manual but the game follows roughly the same lines as Alpha Centauri.

Mine resources,
Research techs,
Build big ass whoopin' mechs (not yet working)
Sit on the enemy

Until I finally get industry written it's not much of a game as you can't produce any more vehicles than what you have.

At the moment I'd like to people just to have a play around and give comments as to the interface, any bugs there are, features they'd like to see in a turn based strategy etc

Thanks for looking guys!

where's the "What you fooking looking at button" ?

Ian,

What you on about now?

it's a game made by northerners, it's got to have the "what you fooking looking at" and an automatic headbutt move ;)

Arbiter - we've got to put in some sherry power-ups, else we risk alienating southerners!

attack by a battered mars bar and a chip balm cake ?

Got ya!

Absolutely, if we use Sherry instead of the synthesised epoxy resin we were planning on, it increases the market appeal!

Ian,

Did you really go to all the trouble of downloading, setting up the game and playing around, only to point out that there was no 'you looking at my pint/missus/car ?' button.

Figures.

its chip muffin up here, pal!

behemoth - Every chippy I went into when I was in manchester called them balm cakes.

Arbiter - Unfortunatley I haven't had a chance to download it yet as I am at work, i'll have a look when i get home though :-)

at least spell it right
barm cakes

:D

lol, sorry :)

Will you kids stop bickering about barm cakes, balm cakes, muffins, baps, cobs, bunnies and other breaded products - this thread is for Sentience!!!!

Just one suggestion, so far :), i dont think the game should be full screen.
That annoyed me a little :)

- jamie

times have changed, I remember the days when you and I were chief instagators of ruining threads :)

Ian,

I have no qualms about ruining threads - just not mine!

Plenderj,

Thanks for the comment.

Well, the game runs at 800*600 (it used to run at 1024*768 which is why the research screen looks a little screwy), so unless your machine is running at a monster resolution then it's going to take up most of the screen anyway.

We decided to go with full screen as it helps immersion into the game and there wouldn't be enough screen space left to do anything with if we windowed it.

If anyone else feels the same about it being fullscreen then let me know and I'll look at making it windowed. Bear in mind that it will be a 800*600 window to fit everything on...

Also, besides the interface not being overly intuitive, theres another thing.
When you select something and then right click on it, a little menu comes up.

But to make it go away it would appear you have to hit the arrow.
It'd be better if it just went if you clicked anywhere off the menu.

- jamie

OK, thanks.

I'll fix that. Do you have any suggestions as to how to improve the interface?

Hey. HEY!

My screen runs at a monster resolution. :)

Also for the units, you should have a distance, say, 300. (just a sec, not 300 map units) All of the terrains have a movement unit. EG: trees = 50, grass =25. So that means while you chould go 6 squares on trees, you can go 12 squares on grass. Get what I'm saying?

The pathfinding thing is also quite simple. You plot a perfect line to it, and then when there is an obstacle (in sight), build several different ones and see which one has the least land value (see above paragraph). In this way it is quite simple.

Also, for comp. opponents, don't expect to get the AI done in one day. I'm doing a simple side-scroller and I still haven't done the AI!

If you want to improve your graphics, take a look at the "I think..." thread. I've posted a... ah, lets just call it a "goodie" for game programmers. Download it and tell me what you think!

Hehe, and get started FIRST on those "BIG ASS WHOPPING" mechs! :)

Behemoth, excellent graphics. Did you do the nebula thing or did you take it from another prog?

Okay, look at the alphablending thread in this section of the forums. You will see someone post an API called AlphaBlend.

Use it like he shows you (the 50 number is the opacity, 0 is all dest, 100 is all source) and use that 50.

Now, when you move somewhere, simply don't update unit movements where you last were (eg. where you cant see). But don't completely black this out, alphablend (or have an option for stippled) some black onto it. This will make it look like fog "of war."

If you have already implemented this, please kick me, for it is 8:40 in the morning.

BTW, this alphablending isn't slow! It runs at like 60 fps on my 533, and most ppl have that or higher these days.

1) i believe we've already implemented different speeds for different terrain types, but it isnt apparent when you have infinte move! doh!

2) I built all the graphics myself, with a little help from on-line photoshop tutorials.

Will you use the fog of war?

Sastraxi,

Sorry for taking so long to reply I've been in a 2 hr meeting (I'm at work).

We already a fog of war stylee which blacks squares you haven't explored and dim those you have but can't see . It dims them by simply placing a template over them which darkens the squares. Much quicker than complex alphablending I thought.

Behemoth is correct, there is a distance limiter in affect for the units but it's disabled for testing purposes (I couldn't be arsed waited 25 turns to run over to the enemy when I only wanted to test the combat modules).

Simply put, each mech has a limited amount of energy per turn (defined by its reactor) and it can use this either entirely on movement, shooting or a combination of both.

A static mech would be able to throw it's entire energy allotment at an enemy mech whereas one that had trampled halfway around the world wouldn't.

Moving across a peice of land uses a certain amount of energy (based on mech weight, chassis etc) and different mechs can move at different speeds across different terrains. It's quite in depth.

There is a limit to both speed and energy used and finding the balance will lead to the best mechs. A badly designed huge lumbering thing may be able to travel 20 squares in theory, but because of its weight and a crappy reactor installed may not have the power to do so.

A wheeled vehicle may be able to dash down the road at great speed, using up its entire movement allowance and because it has a reasonable reactor may be able to let loose a hail of weapon fire as well because it has surplus energy.

When industry's working you'll be able to see it a bit better, it's just a huge section to implement.

Pathfinding (or at least good pathfinding) is proving a problem for us. Firstly we don't have the time at the moment to define an algorithm for it (QBT - Quality Beer Time keeps getting in the way) and then there's incorporating it into the game.

I'm just on the way to look at your 'I think...' thread now.

Thanks for the comments, I look forward to more constructive comments like them!

I just got a subscript out of range runtime error.
I had 3 players, the second two of which I had pressed the button to the right of their name textboxes.
The map was the biggest map, with the most continents.

I had skipped my first go.
Then I went onto the second player.
I had the unit go diagonally down right, and then up, and then up and then up once more. The third going up caused the runtime error.
The mech had just previously moved over what looked like mountains. The mech had also just moved through the 'fog'.

Also, have either of you ever played Sid Meyer's Colonization ? It looks very similar :)

- jamie

Got a 'Subscript out of Range' error when moving up, done @ cheat to see map, moved approx. 20 spaces, passed thru mountain a move before

I think PlenderJ and I have the same prob. could ya check into it?

Hey plenderj, btw, did you upload my part?

Well your part is only a list of topics ... no content :)
Anyway, I'll upload it and fill it in later.

Also, I take it I can change the layout (colours, fonts) etc. to make it fit in with the current layout ?
Btw, the link to see the full version of your avatar doesnt work ...:)

- jamie

I've just spent the last 20 minutes writing a reply and Vb-World has eaten it.

OK, here's the gist of it in bullet points, I'm not typing it all out again

Plenderj,

* Did I mention that the map settings buttons on the mapmaker screen don't do anything? To change the setting, use the text boxes on the right of the screen and manually change the values. (250*250 maps look quite nice)

* I have not played colonization but I have played Civ and Alpha Centauri (also by him)

All,

* Thanks for the continued testing of the game, much appreciated!

* If any further errors like that occur could you take a screen shot please?

* I am aware of two errors only which can kill the game;

1) Involving the east/west wraparound - running off side of the map and on the other can cause problems esp. if there is a unit on the other side

2) If you start a game and then resign all the players, the number of turns goes through the roof and explodes because there are no turn limits as yet.

* If the problem you've mentioned is not one of these then thanks! The more errors uncovered and fixed now, the more stable the game when it's complete. Ok, you both moved up after standing on some mountains, I'll look into it and try and duplicate it.

Well I'll help if you'd like with the code.
Im sure sastraxi would too ...

- jamie

Thanks for the offer!

Writing this game has been an incredible learning experience for me (in fact, it's taken me eight months to program what I have).

It would take me less than half the time to do it again now though.

The problems I'm having aren't with the actual programming, merely with finding the time to get down and work on it.

I will have some problems with the AI and automation routines, so any help there when I get to them would be appreciated.

Cheers fellas!

this needs to go back to the top I think.

Anyone who hasn't given it a go, I urge you to do so. Its quite fun. Please, we need as much feedback as possible.

I made a game called craft.
Some of the code might be of use ;
http://members.fortunecity.com/plenderj/

You can rip it to your hearts content :)

- jamie

Thanks Plenderj,

I'll have a squizz when I get home tonight.

All,

Come on people, everyone have a play and let us know what you think....

Come on guys, take a look!

Out of all the people on this forum, only two have actually replied with constructive comments.

Even if you don't like Strategy games, it would be nice for some feedback off you regarding bugs, interfaces etc.

I'm disappointed with IanP. He's come in here so often, slagging off northerners and just soesnt have the decency to test for us. or to drink a mans drink...boo!

:p

I got a subscript out of range error, as I was moving north at the top edge of the screen. Didn't notice any mountains or anything.

Looks almost like a game so far anyway :) Are you going to add some animations? Just a simple gradual movement like in the original Civ would be good. I expect you just haven't got around to it yet.

I think the ahrdest part of this is probably going to be the AI. Civ was a fantastic game, and the only thing that I can think of that was a problem was the AI - it was a bit crap. The easy way to make AI better is to let it cheat, but try to avoid that if possible :)

the AI wont need to cheat.

We'll lobotomise our users first.

Then they wont notice...

Correct, our AI will not cheat, though I think lobotomising the user is a little excessive.

In fact, it'll be using the same automation routines that the player can use to automate their units, with a broad, governing AI based on the factions preferences.

Animations are on their way, it's just a case of Behemoth finding time to produce them.

He tells me he's going as fast as he can...

PS - Thanks for looking Harry.

If you have any suggestions on what to do to improve it then we're all ears!

Harry - you ever played SMAC? you can automate great chunks of the game - entire cities can have their AI governer turned on and left to their own devices. We're planning to use a similar, stripped down version, particularly for movement and pathfinding (now thats the current sticking point. A*? bah humbug!). The only real problem is going to be automating industry, research and construction, but it's certainly possible.

I think the AI would be extremely easy actually :)
Just put in a few pre-written scripts that determine what courses of action should be taken under what conditions etc.

- jamie

The problem with that is the depth and scope of the game. Its fine having a certain number of scripts to cover generic instances of movement, combat etc, but there are literally thousands of possible combinations of terrain, mech components, attack, resources etc. even down to what has been discovered thus far. for example. would a sensible AI player consider it worthwhile to self-destruct one of his units? what if he were surrounded by a number of enemy units? what if those enemy units were quite weak, and the single unit could handle them without self-destruct.

In theory it is very simple, but in practice it's going to take months of theorising, coding and testing before its going to be anywhere near finished!

Thanks for you comments though. keep them coming. :)

Well,

If each unit has a certain number of attacks possible, and each attack has a certain strength depending on distance etc, then the computer would just check at each move which move would cause the most damage.

Code:

---

Public Sub CheckAIGeneral(MechUnit As GameUnit)
    If (MechUnit.IsPassive) Then
        CheckAIGetResources MechUnit
    Else
        CheckAICombat MechUnit
    End If
End Sub

Private Sub CheckAIResources(MechUnit As GameUnit)
    'Check the land around the unit for any resources or whatever
End Sub

Private Sub CheckAICombat(MechUnit As GameUnit)
    'Iterate through possible attacks   
    For i = 0 To Ubound(MechUnit.Attacks)
        'Check the strength of each attack at the closest enemy mech's distance
    Next i
End Sub

---

I dont think the above approach would take months.
If a couple of people were to spend a few days at each part of it, it'd take no time.

- jamie

plenderj - I wouldn't advise you take up time budgeting as a career :rolleyes: Nothing is ever simple, even if it embodies simpleness and comes in a box marked "Attention: this is very simple", you can guarantee it won't be simple. Just because life is a bastard.

sometimes harry, (just sometimes) your cynicism is just what I need to face the day.


:D

Nah I still stand by my opinion.
Just think about how we as humans would make decisions.
The first time we come across a particular type of situation we weigh up all possible combinations of what might happen given certain circumstances.
Then, we usually record the outcome of that particular situation to make future estimations quicker.

A computer doesnt need the speed element, so all you would have to do is iterate through each possibility of what that unit can do.

- jamie

Thanks for you input anyway. Arbiter will implement everything relevant at the first available opportunity. in the meantime, anyone else wants a go, they're more than welcome.

Hey Behemoth! I think that the first graphics you do are for the interface in the game, and arbiter make sure no labels say their native name, IE: Label37. You should aim for transparency in the GUI so it has a good look, similar to Starcraft's interface.

If you want I can help, as I have no projects going on now.

Sorry Sastraxi, its Friday afternoon and I'm tired. I don't think I understand your post properly.
:confused:
What do you mean?

Like the interface while ingame, the one that displays the properties of the units and "the like." If you've ever played starcraft, it has an irregular-shaped interface, the stats screen if you will, and it makes the game look pretty cool. Like I said, if you want I can help you with it

I will check this out over the weekend...

Sastraxi,

Have Behemoth and I ever played Starcraft? It's part of a way of life for us - the number of beer fuelled Starcraft evening we've had are legendary.

I know what you mean regarding the transparant/translucent interface. We've looked at that and dribbled many times. The problem is me writing the code to duplicate it - I'm not sure I can get it to work fast like they do. I'm far from being a good programmer!

AmesJustin,

Thanks, let us know what you think...

Then this should send you on your way....
dribbling, hehe :)

Code:

---

'Lesson: How to use the ALPHABLEND function provided by Microsoft, code by someone else :)
Private Declare Function AlphaBlend Lib "msimg32.dll" (ByVal hdc As Long, ByVal lInt As Long, ByVal lInt As Long, ByVal lInt As Long, ByVal lInt As Long, ByVal hdc As Long, ByVal lInt As Long, ByVal lInt As Long, ByVal lInt As Long, ByVal lInt As Long, ByVal BLENDFUNCT As Long) As Long
Private Declare Sub RtlMoveMemory Lib "kernel32.dll" (Destination As Any, Source As Any, ByVal Length As Long)

Sub Blend(Source As PictureBox, Dest As PictureBox, Alpha As Integer)
Dim BF As BLENDFUNCTION, lBF As Long
    With BF
        .BlendOp = 0
        .BlendFlags = 0
        .SourceConstantAlpha = Alpha * 2.55
        .AlphaFormat = 0
    End With
    RtlMoveMemory lBF, BF, 4
    AlphaBlend Dest.hdc, 0, 0, Dest.ScaleWidth, Dest.ScaleHeight, Source.hdc, 0, 0, Source.ScaleWidth, Source.ScaleHeight, lBF
    Source.Refresh
    Dest .Refresh
End Sub

---

Simply call Blend(picture1,picture2, 50), this would do 50%, 50% blending. You can modify it if you arent using picboxes and whatever. For transparent thats easy, but of course u know that, or are you using DDRAW?

(if u are u can still use the above code with makesurefacefromdc)

Every time I run the game it gives me this message box


***************************

Run time error '429':

ActiveX component can't create object

________
| |
| OK |
|______ |

******************************

Can anyone help me fix this?

Darkvelius,

You get that error if you don't have DirectX7 installed. You can download it free from www.microsoft.com

Thanks for looking...