Is There Another Earth? (serious)

...anywhere in the universe? I am starting to think not. Here's my logic.

Most scientists agree that there are about 20 major conditions that exist with earth that allow it to support life as we know it today or even 100 million years ago. These include an almost ideal sun and our distance from it, an ideal location of the solar system within the galaxy, the axis tilt to produce seasons, polar caps, the core, oceans, tides, the moon, and a host of others. Take any of these 20 away, and life as we know it would end.

So, the odds of another planet possessing all of these vital ingredients could be estimated at about one in 10^20, which are indeed slim odds. Some scientists think that the odds are even slimmer. Even if there are 10^15 other possible planets in the universe (and I doubt that there are), the odds do not seem to favor another earth out there and life or other beings like us. Earth could very well be the only one.

WDYT? :ehh:

Oh great, another existential discussion, that's just what we need that is.

I'm increasingly inclined to go with the Zen Buddhist view, all life on Earth(s) is suffering, we should detatch ourselves from it, from material things and from other people in order to achieve enlightenment. Also, yeah there are countless millions of inhabited planets. Stop living in the 17th century.

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Originally Posted by Code Doc

...anywhere in the universe? I am starting to think not. Here's my logic.

Most scientists agree that there are about 20 major conditions that exist with earth that allow it to support life as we know it today or even 100 million years ago. These include an almost ideal sun and our distance from it, an ideal location of the solar system within the galaxy, the axis tilt to produce seasons, polar caps, the core, oceans, tides, the moon, and a host of others. Take any of these 20 away, and life as we know it would end.

So, the odds of another planet possessing all of these vital ingredients could be estimated at about one in 10^20, which are indeed slim odds. Some scientists think that the odds are even slimmer. Even if there are 10^15 other possible planets in the universe (and I doubt that there are), the odds do not seem to favor another earth out there and life or other beings like us. Earth could very well be the only one.

WDYT? :ehh:

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Well, one rough estimate says there are 10^23 stars in the universe (400 billion stars per galaxy X 400 billion galaxies).

So there might be 1,000 Earths in the Universe?

I think there is probably a great deal more Earth like planets in the Universe. But what's much more rarer is the right ratios of elements, and nucleotides coming together to form a self replicating biochemical, who eventually through luck and selection, creates a species capable creating tools that can broadcast radio waves into space.

That scenario seems much more rare. It's what makes me think we'll never see Aliens. Such a rarity might be one in a billion galaxies, or maybe one in a hundred Universes (if there are many universes).

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Originally Posted by Code Doc

...anywhere in the universe? I am starting to think not. Here's my logic.

Most scientists agree that there are about 20 major conditions that exist with earth that allow it to support life as we know it today or even 100 million years ago. These include an almost ideal sun and our distance from it, an ideal location of the solar system within the galaxy, the axis tilt to produce seasons, polar caps, the core, oceans, tides, the moon, and a host of others. Take any of these 20 away, and life as we know it would end.

So, the odds of another planet possessing all of these vital ingredients could be estimated at about one in 10^20, which are indeed slim odds. Some scientists think that the odds are even slimmer. Even if there are 10^15 other possible planets in the universe (and I doubt that there are), the odds do not seem to favor another earth out there and life or other beings like us. Earth could very well be the only one.

WDYT? :ehh:

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I think that there must be other planets like ours with life like ours. I say that because given that the number of suns in the universe is essentially infinite then the number of planets in the universe must also be essentially infinite, and on that basis there pretty much has to be one like ours. There are a number of factors to consider and one of them is that given the age of the universe we may not be coexisting with our "twin". If you're not familiar with them look up Drake's equation and the Fermi paradox. Interesting reading.

Capsulecorpjx said, "Such a rarity might be one in a billion galaxies, or maybe one in a hundred Universes (if there are many universes)."
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By definition, how can there be more than one universe? I always thought a universe meant everything there is or was.

And, do you really believe there are 400 billion galaxies in the universe? How many have actually been identified?

I think I need a second opinion on that number. :ehh:

Back in April I started a thread along similar lines. You might want to take a look at that.

Life on other planets? Computers on other planets?

You could take a look at post # 25 in that thread where I posted a footnote that quotes Isaac Asimov's views on the matter.

I don't think there's another earth out there but I think that there are other planets that have intelligent life on them. I think the odds are against our planet being the only planet in the entire observable as well as nonobservable universe that has intelligent beings on it. We can only observe the universe out to a certain distance. What if it extends 500 billion trillion quintillion septillion octillion googol centillion googolplex times farther than we can see or more.

By the way centillion represent either 10 to the 303 or 10 to the 600. Googol is 10 to the 100 and googolplex is 10 to the 10 to the 100 or simply 10 to the googol.

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Originally Posted by Code Doc

Capsulecorpjx said, "Such a rarity might be one in a billion galaxies, or maybe one in a hundred Universes (if there are many universes)."
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By definition, how can there be more than one universe? I always thought a universe meant everything there is or was.

And, do really believe there are 400 billion galaxies in the universe? How many have actually been identified?

I think I need a second opinion on that number. :ehh:

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I think that some physicists believe that ther are universes that are completely cut off from ours. How can that be? I have no real idea but I think it involves black holes.

I just did a quick Google and the current estimate is that there are 125 billion galaxies.

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Originally Posted by Code Doc

Capsulecorpjx said, "Such a rarity might be one in a billion galaxies, or maybe one in a hundred Universes (if there are many universes)."
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By definition, how can there be more than one universe? I always thought a universe meant everything there is or was.

And, do really believe there are 400 billion galaxies in the universe? How many have actually been identified?

I think I need a second opinion on that number. :ehh:

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You sure you're not just looking numbers that suit a particular school of thought? All numbers related to the amount of galaxies or stars will always be estimates. Some supercomputer estimated 500 billion. Since it's a supercomputer and it probably has more RAM than my PC, I'll give it the benefit of the doubt. But these are guesses based on visibility estimates. There are 10^21 stars.

http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/as...s/021127a.html
http://imagine.gsfc.nasa.gov/docs/as...rs/970115.html

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Originally Posted by MartinLiss

I think that some physicists believe that ther are universes that are completely cut off from ours. How can that be? I have no real idea but I think it involves black holes.

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There's a "Many World Theory" in some part of quantum mechanics that creates universes at all points in times for all possible observations. A common example is that a coin flip can result in a heads or tail - 2 universes will be created each of which has one possibility and they can no longer interact with each other. This is also used to explain why there's life in this universe, since conditions have become fine tuned in this particular universe (and a few others) suitable for life.

Cosmologists talk about the Big Bang. They say that there was a Big Bang that started our universe expanding but what if for every star in our universe there was a Big Bang along with its universe or another possibility what if for every atom in this universe there was a Big Bang along with the universe that goes with that Big Bang. Would the people that say that this is the only planet with intelligent beings in this universe still say that this would be the only planet with intelligent beings in any universe?

I reckon there could be but just because there is another earth doesn't mean that who they call humans will have two eyes, two arms, two hands, two legs and feet, etc. Their people could very well have five eyes, two mouths, etc.

If there are other Earths out there then the chances are that they'd all be flat like this one.

really, didn't it take 2/3 of the life of our star for humans to evolve? But if life doesn't exist anywhere else, then roswell must be caused by the inter-terrestrials living inside our own hollow planet.

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Originally Posted by Lord Orwell

really, didn't it take 2/3 of the life of our star for humans to evolve? But if life doesn't exist anywhere else, then roswell must be caused by the inter-terrestrials living inside our own hollow planet.

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LO, I am getting beat up by all of these huge number theorists. There is no proof anywhere that there are over 100 billion galaxies, let alone one billion. If there are even a million, how many have we identified? Give me a break.

There is no proof anywhere that there is more than one universe. That's a bunch of double talk. The universe is everything, by definition.

I do believe in stochastic models. The odds are less that one in one million that another planet that even resembles earth exists. Those odds could easily be less than that. No one here has been able to convince me otherwise. :ehh:

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Originally Posted by Code Doc

...There is no proof anywhere that there are over 100 billion galaxies, let alone one billion. If there are even a million, how many have we identified? Give me a break....

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Why would you doubt it? Just because it's a big number?

they have already identified earth-size planets. Pretty much every star they have watched has been discovered to have planets around it. The question is how many have earth-like ones.

Plus since you are knocking numbers, i'd like to see the math involved in the odds you quoted. How are they quantifying the odds of life randomly appearing anywhere?

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Originally Posted by Lord Orwell

they have already identified earth-size planets. Pretty much every star they have watched has been discovered to have planets around it. The question is how many have earth-like ones.

Plus since you are knocking numbers, i'd like to see the math involved in the odds you quoted. How are they quantifying the odds of life randomly appearing anywhere?

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Well, I know it's a lousy sample, but let's suppose that only one planet in 10 has any one of the required 20 properties that are needed to create an earth. But, all 20 properties have to exist simultaneously. Raise 0.1 to the 20th power. That's the probability of finding another earth similar to ours because all 20 do exist here and must exist elsewhere to replicate us. They must also exhibit these properties in the correct magnitude, and that makes the odds even slimmer.

This becomes a trivial matter if you truly believe there are 125 billion galaxies and several universes, but I simply choose not to believe that for lack of evidence. How many galaxies have we documented? On the other hand, we have documented the required properties to replicate the earth. Each of the other planets in the solar system only have one or two of the required properties, do not even approach 20 or so, nor are the amounts anywhere near the required proportions.

Technology is at a point never reached by mankind in all of the history of this planet. Scientist's can see matter that cannot otherwise be seen by adjusting frequency wavelengths. They can map out the universe based on the gravitational effects in light that dark matter imposes. How can supercomputers count the galaxies? This is 1/100 possible ways.

Mainstream science isnt on a quest to prove ET exists, they wouldnt admit to billions of existing galaxies unless there is proof behind the claim.

Mathmatically you are in denial if you think earth is the sole apple seed of the universe.

How do planets form? From leftover debris after the sun is formed. That means every single sun has multiple planets revolving around it. (doesnt include dwarf suns of course). Our solar system proves mutiple lines of gravitational "pull" exists. (at certain distances gavitational pull from the collecting debris will be stronger than the gravitational pull exerted from the sun) Which means when the planets form within every other suns solar system there will be planets generated at multiple distances from the sun.

That "utopia" distance we're talking about here is quite large. As you should all know Mars itself has once had oceans upon it. That is proof of the power atmoserphic climate has in regulating the desirable temperatures. Life has also proven to exist in vast numbers of forms and climates. Bacteria has been known to survive virtually everywhere on earth.

Its human nature to desire the feeling of being unique. Afterall we've been born into a world where we are the Top Dogs. It doesnt surprise me that people brainwash themselves into thinking we're the Top Dogs of the Universe as well.

150 years ago mankind was riding horses and crapping in holes outside.
Doesnt take long to become super advanced does it? ;)

Estimates for the total number of stars in the obsevable universe(notice the word observable) is 10 to the 21 stars. That's a billion trillion stars. I believe that to be rather accurate and if it's off I would say it's on the low side because it's based on what we can see so far. If there are more stars that we can't see then they wouldn't figure into this estimate.

We shouldn't think that life can only develop on planets that have a close to identical nature to earth's. Life is adaptable. Life has been found in the oceans at extreme pressures and temperatures.

you should go out on a mountain top or in the middle of the ocean at night and look up. there are so many stars that i am quite positive they block the view of other ones behind them. It literally looks like a cloud.

and i would like to see this list of 20 requirements. Let's say one in ten planets meet one of them? That estimate has to be low. we have eight planets and nearly all of them have an atmosphere, and a good portion of the moons do as well. Water is known to exist on earth, mars, and one of the moons of saturn.
Then of course, there is the possibility we actually have in fact been visited by these beings. If we actually get evidence of visitations, such as this:
http://members.tripod.com/~A_U_R_A/H...rCartouche.jpg
we have to then ask ourselves what the implications of that are. "the day the earth stood still"'s statement that life-bearing planets are rare to the point they are all being monitored. Or the opposite that if intelligent life is seen, it must then show that intelligence took billions of years of evolution to form on this planet so you can assume there must be a surplus of planets with no intelligence.
There has already been a claim of bacteria found on meteors. It's only a matter of time before something irrefutable shows up.

It strikes me as incredibly arrogant to assume that we are the only intelligent lifeform in the entire universe. And kind of sad, too, if it were true. So much space, and beauty, and potential in the vastness of space.

I've always believed that our universe is one of the many universes that exist.

Think of it this way:
The smallest thing we know, the atom, has electrons revolving around a nucleus. Now many of these atoms combine and form the planets. It has moons revolving around them. Many of these planets combine and revolve around a star (their sun). Many such stars combine and form a galaxy. They revolve around the centre of galaxy. Many such galaxies combine and form a universe. They revolve around the center of universe.
Do u think this would stop here?? I think NO. There must then be even some bigger body that should have many universes and all these universes revolve around its center.... and this continues infinitely.
Even on the other edge, the smallest particle we know the atom has nucleus at its centre. It must also have a similar structure. It would be composed of things that revolve around their center... and this continues infinitely on this side too.

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Originally Posted by Lord Orwell

you should go out on a mountain top or in the middle of the ocean at night and look up. there are so many stars that i am quite positive they block the view of other ones behind them. It literally looks like a cloud....

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And basically what you are seeing with the naked eye is just one galaxy.

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Originally Posted by Code Doc

There is no proof anywhere that there is more than one universe. That's a bunch of double talk. The universe is everything, by definition.

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There is no proof anywhere that there is only one universe, either. :afrog:

Here's a link to the scan that I posted in the other thread that I previously mentioned. Asimov gives an argument that I think is pretty good.

Attachment 70664

Many Worlds

All this yammering and nobody bothers to mention the anthropic principle?

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In physics and cosmology, the anthropic principle is the collective name for several ways of asserting that physical and chemical theories, especially astrophysics and cosmology, need to take into account that there is life on Earth, and that one form of that life, Homo sapiens, has attained rationality. The only kind of universe humans can occupy is one that is similar to the current one.

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In other words, you either think within the bounds of the principle or you think on the edge or outside of it. The numbers you "choose to believe" depend on your position relative to this.

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Originally Posted by soso3

There is no proof anywhere that there is only one universe, either. :afrog:

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The term, universe, has to be redefined if you believe that there is more than one of them. The definition being used here is that the universe is the collection of everything that there is. By definition, therefore, nothing else exists but what is in the universe and there is only one universe.

Until we get that straightened out, the entire discussion is meaningless. :ehh:

I find it hard to believe that it only takes 20 specific conditions to create intelligent life. I think it is far more complex than that but take for instance the dinosaurs. These creatures were able to exist on the earth when it was far less habitable. Supposedly the earth was covered by volcanoes and was probably a lot hotter than it is these days. I think it is very plausible that there are other planets covered by desserts or volcanoes and are still able to maintain some reptilian lifeforms. According to some of the books that I've read a planet only needs to be able to sustain algea to eventually produce intelligent life and algea can sprout up almost anywhere when certain conditions are met - I am guessing this is the 20 conditions that are required for life on earth as well.

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Originally Posted by KTech

I find it hard to believe that it only takes 20 specific conditions to create intelligent life. I think it is far more complex than that but take for instance the dinosaurs. These creatures were able to exist on the earth when it was far less habitable. Supposedly the earth was covered by volcanoes and was probably a lot hotter than it is these days. I think it is very plausible that there are other planets covered by deserts or volcanoes and are still able to maintain some reptilian lifeforms. According to some of the books that I've read, a planet only needs to be able to sustain algea to eventually produce intelligent life and algea can sprout up almost anywhere when certain conditions are met - I am guessing this is the 20 conditions that are required for life on earth as well.

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If you believe that more than 20 specific conditions are required to create intelligent life, then you further support my belief there may very well be no other earth in the universe. The more factors required, the less the chance that there is any other planet in the universe that resembles earth.

I offered 20 because that seemed reasonable based on what I have studied. The actual number could easily be much higher and that makes another earth even harder to find. Perhaps you now see where I am coming from. :ehh:

You're treating life like it's some giant if statement. Again, let me point out the anthropic principle. You're assuming repeatedly that life needs to be formed exactly as it was here on Earth. Maybe that's the concept that you need to grasp - there are no other humans out there. That's something from Star Trek and Star Wars. Life can take on any form. But that's the limitation we suffer from living on Earth and never having traveled to other systems. A moving blob of liquid can actually be an intelligent life form.

From some conference this month, a bunch of mad scientists got together and one of them, though not all, said

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“The Sun does not seem like the perfect star for a system where life might arise. Although it is hard to argue with the Sun’s ‘success’ as it so far is the only star known to host a planet with life, our studies indicate that the ideal stars to support planets suitable for life for tens of billions of years may be a smaller slower burning ‘orange dwarf’ with a longer lifetime than the Sun ― about 20-40 billion years. These stars, also called K stars, are stable stars with a habitable zone that remains in the same place for tens of billions of years. They are 10 times more numerous than the Sun, and may provide the best potential habitat for life in the long run”

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“On the more speculative side we have also found indications that planets like Earth are also not necessarily the best suited for life to thrive. Planets two to three times more massive than the Earth, with a higher gravity, can retain the atmosphere better. They may have a larger liquid iron core giving a stronger magnetic field that protects against the early onslaught of cosmic rays. Furthermore, a larger planet cools more slowly and maintains its magnetic protection. This kind of planet may be more likely to harbour life. I would not trade though ― you can’t argue with success”.

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I don't know what this guy's definition of life is though. Maybe he's just hoping for Star Wars.

That just sounds like more of a case against global warming. Instead of blaming car emmissions and deforestation he is blaming the true culprit - the blazing hot sun! If we could just reduce the amount of heat rays that come from the sun we would solve all of our problems and be free to drive filthy cars and cut down trees as much as we want!

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Originally Posted by KTech

That just sounds like more of a case against global warming. Instead of blaming car emmissions and deforestation he is blaming the true culprit - the blazing hot sun! If we could just reduce the amount of heat rays that come from the sun we would solve all of our problems and be free to drive filthy cars and cut down trees as much as we want!

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If we reduced the heat rays comming from the sun, nothing would be left on this earth. :eek:
All energy on the earth comes from the sun. This energy is then converted to other forms in one way or the other.

no we would just have to dress warmer

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Originally Posted by Pradeep1210

If we reduced the heat rays comming from the sun, nothing would be left on this earth. :eek:
All energy on the earth comes from the sun. This energy is then converted to other forms in one way or the other.

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dont forget about thermal energy.

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Originally Posted by Lord Orwell

dont forget about thermal energy.

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Yep.. Sun is the root of all energy on this earth in one way or the other. Solar, Thermal, Geothermal, wind, tidal... etc. etc.; all these are due to the heat rays from the sun. Energy can't be created or destroyed and earth has no way to produce its own energy unlike the sun where heat is being produced by fusion reaction. So anything that is coming to the earth is from the sun.

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Originally Posted by Pradeep1210

Yep.. Sun is the root of all energy on this earth in one way or the other. Solar, Thermal, Geothermal, wind, tidal... etc. etc.; all these are due to the heat rays from the sun. Energy can't be created or destroyed and earth has no way to produce its own energy unlike the sun where heat is being produced by fusion reaction. So anything that is coming to the earth is from the sun.

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Even the sun has an energy source, if I remember correctly I think 97% of it is helium gathered from the planets in orbit and even most of that comes from the earth.

The earth also has radioactive heating, which is not sun-sourced, but that's a minor point.

I'd like to take issue with the 1:10^20 statement. That appears to be a contrived number. If there are 20 factors, each of which has to be within a specific range, then the odds of an earthlike planet is the multiplication of the odds of each of the twenty items. Many of those 20 are interdependent, so the variables are not independent. Do we know the actual probabilities of any one of those twenty factors? I don't believe we do, except for the probability of certain suns.

However, if you just say that in all 20 cases, either it is or it isn't, then your odds are only 1:2^20, not 1:10^20.

Taking a Biblical View, There is only one Earth...

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." - Genesis 1:1

Notice it says "earth" not "earths"

So that means that there is more than one heaven?

Heaven is plural. Heavens...

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Originally Posted by dclamp

Taking a Biblical View, There is only one Earth...

"In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." - Genesis 1:1

Notice it says "earth" not "earths"

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doesn't it also say something about the sons of god in there somewhere?

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Originally Posted by MartinLiss

So that means that there is more than one heaven?

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In this particular sense, they were not actually talking about that meaning of the word heaven. It is also used interchangeably with the word sky. So he created the sky and his home.

I am particularly interested to see why in cain and abel, the first two children of adam and eve, it clearly states he doesn't want a mark on his head because when he leaves the garden, everyone else will see it and kill him. Who are all these other people?!? adam and eve were the first ones, right?

and of course, heaven is in the center of the galaxy. looks like a black hole.

I understand that heavens is plural. So is this like the discussion of whether or not there is more than one universe? In other words is there more than one heaven?

OK, so some book written on our earth says there is only one earth. Realizing of course this book was written in a time when even travelling in the air by flying was impossible and the earth was the center of the universe and it was flat. I don't see how any religious texts have any bearing on an argument that was sticking mostly to scientific lines.

I think there is only one earth. There's only one me and one you. We are each unique persons and each planet is unique also. That doesn't mean that God created a universe that only has one planet with intelligent beings.

On the subject of whether there is more than one heaven I would say that there is. Jesus said, "In my Father's house there are many mansions." John 14:2

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Originally Posted by MartinLiss

I understand that heavens is plural. So is this like the discussion of whether or not there is more than one universe? In other words is there more than one heaven?

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Heaven is one place, but i believe it is like a State, for example, There are many counties/cities/etc within California, but they are all still California.

So there are many Heavens, but collectively, there is one.

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Originally Posted by EntityX

I think there is only one earth. There's only one me and one you. We are each unique persons and each planet is unique also. That doesn't mean that God created a universe that only has one planet with intelligent beings.

On the subject of whether there is more than one heaven I would say that there is. Jesus said, "In my Father's house there are many mansions." John 14:2

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+1. However, it appears that there may be only one planet anywhere in the universe that even resembles earth. We are living on it. :ehh:

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Originally Posted by EntityX

I think there is only one earth. There's only one me and one you. We are each unique persons and each planet is unique also. That doesn't mean that God created a universe that only has one planet with intelligent beings.

On the subject of whether there is more than one heaven I would say that there is. Jesus said, "In my Father's house there are many mansions." John 14:2

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Ah, the many-heavens theory:)

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Originally Posted by MartinLiss

Ah, the many-heavens theory:)

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I asked a good friend about your question. He said "The word Heavens in Hebrew is translated into english as plural, That word heavens though is talking about space and the cosmos or everything we see when we look into the night sky. It is not talking about the Heaven that we will go and be with Jesus someday with. The words are different and are translated into english really bad."

There is no doubt of multiple dimensions. Ghosts exist, obviously not in the same dimension that we do. They are direct and physical evidence. They also prove dimensions can be traveled "through" or crossed over, however you want to look at it. The range we can see out of the electromagnetic spectrum is quite small. All that it takes is an object's atoms to viberate at a higher or lower frequency to be completely invisible to us.


You guys had better stay away from heaven and religion you'll turn this topic into 50 pages over night lol.

If god made us who made god?

Let the Debate Begin! lol

God has always existed.

I was just kidding, logically thats the only answer.

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Originally Posted by Resilience

I was just kidding, logically thats the only answer.

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what has logic have to do with religion? Logic is why many people do NOT believe.

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Originally Posted by Code Doc

+1. However, it appears that there may be only one planet anywhere in the universe that even resembles earth. We are living on it. :ehh:

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To bring this back towards the topic....



Why does this surprise you? The current state of our planet in the Universe is the sum of all the events that have taken place in its history...every decision, every bug stepped on by a stegosaurus, every rogue quantum event. The chances of there being a planet EXACTLY the same as ours somewhere else in the Universe are vanishingly small; I don't know why somebody would even suggest it.
So the question is, how close a resemblance is "resembles"? In the sense that there's ocean and land? I reckon the answer is "almost certainly". H2O is a pretty basic molecule requiring two low-proton elements which were synthesized pretty early on in the history of the Universe; they're literally everywhere. It's a bold assertion to suggest that nowhere else in the entire Universe has a temperature between 0 and 100 C.
As for the rest of it, about what form life might take, there's no possible way of knowing. Life evolves in its environment, and any other environment is going to require different adaptations. Natural selection ensures it. Is it going to have legs and hair? No way to tell. Is it going to even have DNA? Who knows; again that's the mechanism for reproducing life that has evolved HERE, under the environmental conditions on EARTH.
None of what we know about life suggests that our model is a universal blueprint. But the fact that it can happen by random chance under our conditions in no way precludes it from happening by random chance under different conditions.

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Originally Posted by zaza

To bring this back towards the topic....



Why does this surprise you? The current state of our planet in the Universe is the sum of all the events that have taken place in its history...every decision, every bug stepped on by a stegosaurus, every rogue quantum event. The chances of there being a planet EXACTLY the same as ours somewhere else in the Universe are vanishingly small; I don't know why somebody would even suggest it.
So the question is, how close a resemblance is "resembles"? In the sense that there's ocean and land? I reckon the answer is "almost certainly". H2O is a pretty basic molecule requiring two low-proton elements which were synthesized pretty early on in the history of the Universe; they're literally everywhere. It's a bold assertion to suggest that nowhere else in the entire Universe has a temperature between 0 and 100 C.
As for the rest of it, about what form life might take, there's no possible way of knowing. Life evolves in its environment, and any other environment is going to require different adaptations. Natural selection ensures it. Is it going to have legs and hair? No way to tell. Is it going to even have DNA? Who knows; again that's the mechanism for reproducing life that has evolved HERE, under the environmental conditions on EARTH.
None of what we know about life suggests that our model is a universal blueprint. But the fact that it can happen by random chance under our conditions in no way precludes it from happening by random chance under different conditions.

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Saturn's moon Titan just made the news again. They just announced more errors in their calculations. According to their current models, it couldn't have storms, but it has one right now.

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Originally Posted by Lord Orwell

Saturn's moon Titan just made the news again. They just announced more errors in their calculations. According to their current models, it couldn't have storms, but it has one right now.

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Storms on Titan? Heck, LO, the sun also has sunspots that influence the weather or earth. Venus probably has storms galore beneath a hostile atmosphere that could never support life on any position on the planet.

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Originally Posted by Lord Orwell

what has logic have to do with religion? Logic is why many people do NOT believe.

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Things that have no logic and you want everyone to believe, just put it in religion. They would just believe it in the name of religion. :D

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Originally Posted by Code Doc

Storms on Titan? Heck, LO, the sun also has sunspots that influence the weather or earth. Venus probably has storms galore beneath a hostile atmosphere that could never support life on any position on the planet.

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since we have never actually been there with a decent probe, i would ask what gives you this idea? Pretty much all we know for sure is the composition of the atmosphere in one location and the surface temperature. Even here on earth, we have organisms that are unlike any other. There is a bacteria that lives in the ocean by volcanic vents that converts hydrogen sulfide to energy. In other words, it eats hydrosulfuric acid. is there a more inhospital place besides this for life in the universe? an acid bath?

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Originally Posted by Lord Orwell

Saturn's moon Titan just made the news again. They just announced more errors in their calculations. According to their current models, it couldn't have storms, but it has one right now.

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Your point?

Scientists in inaccurate model shock!? We can never trust these guys again! Entire foundation of world's trust in science collapses, millions flock to churches and mosques. Repent, ye sinners.

:rolleyes:

I'm sure there are plenty of people who take that view, just as there are plenty who are glad for the opportunity to refine the models.