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For as long as I have been a member of VBF I noticed an anti-american sediments by other members. Some of them covertly or thinly veiled comments. So what is it that bugs you the most about the US? Prehaps you don't like our form of Government, or is it you don't like the amount of freedoms our Constitution grants to us? Could it be you don't like the fact that we don't have a figure head as the head of our Government? Whatever you reason please post it here
Throw us some samples of anti-American sentiment :) - No names though
Boy, the Dept. of Homeland Security has become more overt with their tactics. Can't they tap phones anymore? :afrog:
Are you stoned? Sedimentaries rock!Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gambo
Or were you just complaining about all the mud slinging?
On a more serious note, I'm waiting for somebody to answer: Other - this poll!
What a pack of arrogant options.
You.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gambo
Who cares about form? The results count.Quote:
Prehaps you don't like our form of Government,
Yes, this has bugged me my whole life, I can't get over it.Quote:
or is it you don't like the amount of freedoms our Constitution grants to us?
Yes, I do hate America for not having a royal house, one should be of good breeding to rule a nation.Quote:
Could it be you don't like the fact that we don't have a figure head as the head of our Government?
Mostly it's you. You appear to gain satisfaction from the knowledge that you're living in the richest country in the world, and you revel in the thought that everyone in the world is envious of you.Quote:
Whatever you reason please post it here
The US government is fine as long as you are not part of it.Quote:
Prehaps you don't like our form of Government.
Freedom is subjective; but I am inclined to say that you should have the right to post here removed. Is that in the American constitution? :wave:Quote:
Or is it you don't like the amount of freedoms our Constitution grants to us?
Our queen is a mighty woman; although quite powerless. Don't come to the UK though, I fear that if she were to knight you you'd end up in three pieces. :DQuote:
Could it be you don't like the fact that we don't have a figure head as the head of our Government?
Now what was it I don't like about America. Nothing not to like really. Although some of its people have overdosed waaaaaay too much on the patriotic peel. :p
Don't say you didn't ask for that. Now I think my covert comments have risen from the sediments and shown their metamorphic nature. Wouldn't you agree?
Our figurehead said that if we don't have anti-American sentiments, she'd beat us with a rolled up copy of the constitution.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gambo
Now you know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mendhak
Finally and honest and truthful answer, thank you!
You are joking right? Query some CC posts from two certain members one from Canada and another from Sweden.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pino
If you want their names pm and I will give them to you and even give you specific posts if you would like.
Unfortunately, I am away for the weekend and I typed this on my Blackberry. Besides, you know us conservatives are too uptight to smoke a joint :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
Yeah me too.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
No, I feel lucky and privileged to live in the US. I am proud of the accomplishments of my country and how we have improved the quality of life of people worldwide who have benefited from the technology that was developed here by americans.Quote:
Originally Posted by grilkip
Hmmm, that is kind of hard to do here in the US.Quote:
Originally Posted by visualAd
Wow, do you think and say this about everyone you don't agree with. I liken your statement to something the Communists have/are doing. Silence the critics.Quote:
Originally Posted by visualAd
Well since I am not a subject of the crown, I guess I won't be invited to Buckingham anytime soon.Quote:
Originally Posted by visualAd
I'll agree with you to a point.Quote:
Originally Posted by visualAd
I deserve to be "stoned" for that comment thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by visualAd
Hey, no swiping my pun just for Visual Ads benefit!!!
Sorru Bro, I guess I owe you one.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
Yes, technology developed by americans... which resulted from the science, mathematics, and technologies developed by the rest of the world as well. I live in the US, and am very grateful to live here, but by no stretch of the imagination would I pretend to gain an understanding as to why some people dislike (very kind term here) the US. Until you have lived their life you are very unlikely to understand their reasoning.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gambo
Well this is what I am trying to discover.Quote:
Originally Posted by dsheller
A right is also a sanction. To enforce one right you must give up another. Communism has its upsides ;) especially in forums where the moderators are chosen / recommended. :pQuote:
I liken your statement to something the Communists have/are doing. Silence the critics.
Quote:
Originally Posted by visualAd
Like this
It doesn't load for me. Maybe it is being blocked by communists.
Quote:
Originally Posted by visualAd
Maybe Communists hate free speech and religion:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pastor Martin Niemöller
The "they" in the original poem would serve fairly well for conservative, except for the first phrase.
So let's update it for modern issues:
First they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the homosexuals
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist
Then they came for the educators
and tried to force their religion on our young.
Then they came for those who whave non-marital relations with women
Yikes...but then again, they aren't too clean in this regard either.
Then they came for the environmentalists.
Yikes.
You know quite well that the Left doesn't allow any type religion to be taught in school except of course to allow members of a certain religion to prayer during the school day. Hmmm, I wonder which religion that could be, ahhh yes the Religion of "Peace". Try to have a menorah or a Cross in a school and you will be prosecuted but stop the school day so we can pray yes that is fair.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
This which reminds me of something a friend of mine once told me "As long as they keep having tests, there will always be prayer in school." I have prayed many a time in school especially before Midterms and Finals probably just like you whether or not you want to admit it
Free speech is a figure of speech. I do believe that the idea behind communism is that everyone is seen as equal from a material perspective; totally flawed and totally impossible. But I am also under the belief that democracy is based upon social equality; again totally impossible and flawed.
Here in the UK, if I were to go and preach extremist views I may silenced. My extreme views could be based on religion and I may be exercising my right to free speech. However, I would be deemed as behaving in a socially unacceptable manner and thus giving up my right to exercise my freedom of speech. It highlights the need that in some cases individuals need to be silenced.
If I were an extremist who encouraged the others to commit mass murder in the interests of an agenda or belief and I then went and exercised my right to freedom of speech by telling everyone. I would (in the UK at least) be silenced and possibly arrested and charged under the terrorism act. If you look beyond of the moral and ethical problems with this kind of preaching (i.e: its clearly not right to kill), my actions would be deemed as socially unacceptable and more importantly they would threaten the social ideals of the society. This is because I my actions could result in one or more people doing what i say and threatening the society. It is therefore necessary to remove my right to freedom of speech in order to preserve agendas of the society.
While this is an extreme example it does demonstrate that a freedom is note necessarily a freedom. The fourth amendment in the US constitution for example gives citizens the right not to be subjected to unreasonable violations of their privacy without probable cause. In the UK there is no such right and police have stop and search powers but not a normal citizen. In either case that right is given up in certain conditions.
Dictatorship, communism, socialism and democracy exist in all cultures in varying degrees and circumstances. The thing to remember is that these societies are not necessarily bad; they don't necessarily oppress religion and in some it is the best way in which the nation can exist peacefully . The ideal world is by no means a democratic one.
Hmmm, your point being ;-) The freedom of speech here in "the States" is not absolute either for example you can't go into a crowded Fire House and yell Movie :D. Seriously, you may not be aware of this but at least in the State of New York, and probably other states also, the police have a right in a public place (Street, Bus Station, etc.) to stop you and possibly Frisk you if they reasonably believe that you have, are, or are about to committed a Crime (NYS Definition any Felony or Penal Law Misdemeanor). They can detain you for an indefinite amount of time while they investigate you.Quote:
Originally Posted by visualAd
I honestly have no idea what you are refering to in the first paragraph. The only thing we did routinely was bomb scares as soon as the weather got nice. Of course, I grew up in northern New England, which is hardly the hot bed of just about anything. What was this Religion of "Peace" you were refering to? The only thing I can think of is the Quakers, but I don't know any school that knows anything about them outside of the oatmeal.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gambo
As for the second paragraph, I never prayed for a test. My general style was nonchalance. I have those dreams that people talk about where you show up to class in time for the final and realize you haven't been there for the whole semester and didn't study, except that in my version, I just say "bring it on, I may not have been here all semester, but I'll pass your silly test!" In fact, the reason I was able to do well without studying for more than half an hour per test was because I have a good memory that gets better under pressure, so the dreams are wrong. To do well on a test, it wouldn't matter whether or not I studied, but it would certainly matter whether or not I had been to class.
One thing I do like about the UK Judaical system is the fact that a person who has been arrest identity is not released to the public unless they are convicted. I have seem some instances where a man is arrested for rape only to be found not guilty at trial. but his name was already released to the media and he will be forever branded as a rapist even if the victim recants her story on the stand. The Duke Lacrosse Rape Case is a perfect example. A man who was once acquitted after a well publicized criminal trial once said "Where do I go to to get my reputation back?"
They can also stop and search you to some extent without probable cause as long as they do not single you out. This is used for drunk driving checks, hunter check stations, etc. As long as you are searching everyone equally, or based on a mathematical formula (every other car, for instance), then it's ok...up to a point. It is permissible to look through glass, but not open a closed container (trunk) without probable cause or permission.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gambo
You should read something other than the New York Times or the Washington Post a little moreQuote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
http://www.10news.com/news/13767699/detail.html
http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0712/p01s03-ussc.htm
http://www.becketfund.org/index.php/article/453.html
http://www.aclusandiego.org/news_ite...icle_id=000273
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...show_article=1
Ahh, the good old days but today that would probably get you arrested.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
Religion of "Peace"Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
Lucky you
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
I hate to differ with you again, what you are referring to is a check point where some sort of systematic policy has been put in place ie Stop every 4 car, etc. No what I am talking about is New York State Criminal Procedure Law Section 140.50 which authorizes a police officer “to stop a person in a public place . . . when he reasonably suspects that such person is committing, has committed or is about to commit either (a) a felony or (b) a misdemeanor.” Once such a stop has been made, New York law authorizes a frisk of the person only if the officer “reasonably suspects that he is in danger of physical injury.” These provisions form the core of what is popularly referred to as New York’s “Stop and Frisk Act.”
You can be walking down the street minding your own business and if someone tells a Police Officer that they saw you with the a gun believe me you will be stopped and question and most probably searched Even if you aren't carrying a gun. Anything else you may have been carrying on your person (ie Drugs, etc) that the police find on you as result of the search is admissible against you in state court.
Shaggy
here are a couple more links for your reading pleasure:
http://www.cair.com/ArticleDetails.a...ge=1&&Active=1
http://www.cair.com/ArticleDetails.a...ge=1&&Active=1
These two links are from the Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR) hardly a right wing group.
No option for yanks who love our own country? Don't get me wrong i don't agree with everything the current administration has done nor do i agree with everything the previous administration did, and it's most likely that i won't agree with everything the next one does either. Well unless they elect me.
Also i don't think the US is the better than every other country out there, we have plenty of problems.
But with all that being said I love my country and can't wait to love yours too. :)
WAIT WE HAVE INDOOR PLUMBING?
I read neither, of course. Good links, though. Some changes to allow for people to go off and pray should be allowed, it just shouldn't be mandated. This was never an issue when I was growing up. The christian right had no power up there. Had we been allowed time to go off and pray, you can bet I would have taken advantage of it...following Transendentalism, if you know what that is. If you don't, look up Ralph Waldo Emerson or Henry David Thoreau (what's with people using their middle names back then, was it just that movement?).Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gambo
It would back then, too. I have no idea who was calling in the bomb scares. I do think there was very little effort spent on trying to catch the perpetrators, and there would probably be more now, but without a tip, there was little they could do back then. I noted that bomb scares were only in the spring, and only on sunny days when the temperature got up into the 60's.Quote:
Ahh, the good old days but today that would probably get you arrested.
That may be accurate, but is there any religion that doesn't have blood on it's hands? (ok, the Quakers don't have much history of bloodshed, nor do the Unitarians, but those are just offshoots of christianity, which has a gory history indeed). Every religion seems to go through this, and some never get out of it. If we aren't killing people over their flavor or christianity in this country, it's only because we got tired of it. Phooey on them all.Quote:
My cup is only half full. Why is it only those dreams where I can alter the outcome to get rid of what would normally cause stress? There are some people who can control what happens in their dreams entirely. If I had that ability, I sure wouldn't be dreaming about going to school, though I'd be naked in alot more dreams, and I wouldn't be the only one;)Quote:
Lucky you
Your own posts demonstrate exactly why.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gambo
You place the United States on a pedestal. You extol its virtues; you compare it to other cultures and ways of life in a manner that is nothing but condescending. You deliberately set out to frame anything that does not conform to your partisan, patriotic viewpoint as somehow inferior.
There is a prevailing arrogance among Americans. And you have the naïvetè to wonder why you think the rest of the world hates you. I hope that one day you can see.
Well I was just about to reply to this post, I couldn't be bothered to read it all. But I read Pengates post and well.. I couldn't really have put it better if I tried.
Pino
- Extreme censoringQuote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gambo
- Guns on every corner of the street
- Americans thinking that they help the world by starting wars
- Strict religious families (not saying they don't have that anywhere else)
- Bush
I'm not saying that the Netherlands is perfect; I actually hate my country too, but those are my reasons.
By the way, no offense to anyone
Penagate put it pretty succintly.
:thumb:Quote:
Originally Posted by penagate
So I should sit back and just let uninformed persons make disparaging remarks about the US? Yes, I am very proud of my country and I have fought to protect it's sovereignty which I will happily do again if call upon to do so. How many of you can say that you have or would do the same?Quote:
Originally Posted by penagate
I will not stand by and listen to out right slander of the US and it's people. It seems to me that all of the worlds problems are because of the US. So if it bothers you so much that I am a big "flag waver" then do yourself a favor don't read my posts better yet there is a function on VBF where you can ignore a particular user, I suggest that you utilize this feature because I am not going away and I will continue to espouse the virtues of the US whenever it comes under attack.by bombs or by the pen (or the keyboard).
With that being said I wish a Happy Easter to all and have a pleasant rest of your weekend!
So I guess in your original post you were joking. :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Pino
They eat all my hamburgers! thats why i dont like theeem!
And its stupid that its avablie to run with guns and all that.
I cannot ignore you because it is my duty as a moderator to read your posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gambo
In order to reach understanding, one must see from not just one, but both sides. In this thread you asked people why they hate the United States. Yet in your responses you seek only to defend it from any and all criticism. I can only presume that you were the one joking.
In any case, it is irrational for one to feel hatred for a nation, especially one with as diverse a population as the United States. One might hate a government, perhaps, but governments are dynamic, and get replaced. One might generalise, and generalise as far as to feel hatred for the population as a whole, but populations turn over just as governments do. None of us are here indefinitely, yet grudges and prejudices stay. Each generation inherits the views, the attitudes of its predecessors, and adapts them in only the slightest of ways.
Do I hate the United States? No, because I will not commit this generalisation. But it is the views, the attitudes, which you display, with which I disagree, and with which people may take offence, or feel insulted by. I am trying to convey this to you. This is not slander; not unless slander is all you are willing to see it as.
Thank you and the very same to you and yours.Quote:
With that being said I wish a Happy Easter to all and have a pleasant rest of your weekend!
I'd like to hear where you fought, because whether your fight was productive or not could be in question. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gambo
There are plenty of people who support America and back it, whole countries even. You need to keep the picketers apart from the people with serious criticism. America is big, if you want to discuss Dutch politics here, feel free to start.Quote:
I will not stand by and listen to out right slander of the US and it's people. It seems to me that all of the worlds problems are because of the US.
Can't take the heat? You know the saying...Quote:
So if it bothers you so much that I am a big "flag waver" then do yourself a favor don't read my posts better yet there is a function on VBF where you can ignore a particular user, I suggest that you utilize this feature because I am not going away and I will continue to espouse the virtues of the US whenever it comes under attack.by bombs or by the pen (or the keyboard).
I can only guess that you're talking about me as you repeatedly seem to lose arguments to me. It's funny, but if I disagree with you, then are you implying that this means I hate the US? :ehh: Isn't that a touch arrogant? That is a very screwed up way of looking at things.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gambo
I have repeatedly stated in my posts that I think most American citizens are great people, and I think that they have some very good reasons to be proud of their country. So, do I hate the US?, not at all. Do I hate Bush?, yes. This is a very clear distinction.
Now, although on the whole I do like America and have had a lot of fun there, if you want things that I hate about it (note: this is very different from saying that you hate everything), then I would have to go with "detention without trial", "torturing prisoners" and "unprovoked attacks on other countries"..... really, all the same reasons that I hate the North Korean government or Saddam's Government.
But while we're talking about it, there are things that I hate about most governments in the world, including the British and Canadian ones (in particular the way politicians vote themselves pay rises or side with big business for political funding).
I think you will be very hard pushed to find many people who hate the US here. Can you point out some evidence?
As for your options, if you really think they might be reasons for people to hate a country, then it does show you to be totally out of touch with reality. But I don't really consider you to be any sort of measure of the average US citizen. All the choices are laughable.
As for the misguided patriotism, that doesn't bother me as it is a fact that almost 50% of the US population are of below average intelligence. :wave: I guess these are the ones who believe might is right, and it's okay to torture, maim and kill as long as it isn't happening to them.
Surf, guilty conscious hmmm ;-). Don't worry you were not the canadian citizen I was referring to in my post to pino. So rest easy I don't take thing to heart but I will defend what I think is right and I will work to defeat those things which I think that are wrong. I have been doing this all of my life and I am not going to stop now.
I am not going to apologize to anyone or be made to be embarrassed about my feelings for my country. If others choose to talk about a subject they obviously don't have a clue about I am not going to stand by and allow them to continue without me calling them on the sometimes stupid and ignorant comments that they make.
I have no ill will against anyone here we should all be proud of where we come from and not look to say idiotic things about places that more than likely you have never been in their lives. The one about people having guns on every corner in the US is an example.
As for the options that I listed in my poll, my original intent was to be funny but I found out the some people can dish it out but they can't take it. Don't PM me asking if I was referring about you, the parties that I refer to know who I am speaking of and they should move from their glass houses. That is fine now I know the rules.
So like I stated in a previous post I am not going to stop posting because I few people here have thin skin and don't like it when people stand up to them. I will continue to defend what I think is right from not and until the day I die.
I would never fight for your country; or mine. :wave: One exception; I would fight for my family and friends and if that means fighting forQuote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gambo
a nation to achieve that objection then I would.
The US is not a model nation; not even 60% of the way toward being a model nation. The US does good things, it does bad things and it does plain stupid things; most nations do. Anyone who thinks their nation is a model nation is misinformed and until you can say you have lived at least a year in every country of the world I'll take anything you say to that cause with the same regard as most of the other meaningless banter in this forum ;).
Some jokes can't be made by some people. The only option you had on the list that made me think you might not have been serious was the second one. As for the others, I expect conservatives to have a sense of superiority based on each of them. You aren't normally humorless, but if there is one underlying complaint against Americans it is arrogance....no wait, it's ignorance....or arrogance based on ignorance. Pretty much every complaint against America comes down to some form of that.
When someone acts the way they are expected to act, you can't really fault people for believing it was honestly meant.
So simply being patriotic towards ones on country is perceived as arrogance? Are Americans not allowed to feel good about their own country? There has to be a reason why people get so bent out of shape when Americans extol the virtues of their own nation. I know I do not feel the same way when people from other nations express their own patriotism for their own nation. Why is it not ok for Americans to do the same without being perceived as being arrogant?Quote:
Originally Posted by penagate
X
What I don't get is that you ask for the reason people don't like the US and then go of on one when they tell you?
IMO you are just looking for an argument and have been successful to a degree in that.
I can say that the majority of contact I have had with Americans lead me to believe that they are loud and obnoxious although most of these are on Xbox Live. I have had the unfortunate experience of meeting some face to face and I can only state that the experience was similar. There is a stereotypical image I have of an American. He is fat wearing a skip hat dragging a luggage case and hollering at the top of his voice and looking to see how many are watching. As an attention seeking individual I understand the last part of this however I do behave in a far more discreet manner and am not as fat yet.
I know and understand that there are nice American citizens who don’t fit this stereotype, migrants mainly or the small fat ones that have still to aspire to their Mom or Dad’s wonderful image.
Mark, I would say that we remember the bad things about everything and thus this is why people develop an image of certain things such as religions, countries and groups. If I came to the states with my friends and caused a scene 3 nights out of five then you would remember the loud Scot who acted like a prat not the fact that the other 3 guys with me behaved impeccably. This is a fact of life. The news paper today does not have nice things about the scout helping the old lady over the road it tells you about race hate crime and murders ect.
I don’t hate America, I don’t have the time too, nor the want I have 2 beautiful daughters and a gorgeous wife that keep my interests. I believe that you have an issue with certain people on here thus remembering the bad and tarring everyone the same thus reversing your theory in that you are not dealing with the fact it is you seeing it this way.
The fact you have fought for your country is a credit to you, however you may be seeing things form behind the wall and not looking objectively, America has it’s fair share of problems and the hate by certain groups is deserved IMO.
I think that Pen hit it on the head.
And I know that there will be the obligatory comment about the hairy arsed Scot wearing a kilt!
David
The main problem that I have with America concerns the basic tone of the OP. There seems to be the idea out there that if you are against the bad things that America does, then you are similarly against all the good things as well.
If you believe that starting wars based on lies and needlessly causing the deaths of tens of thousands of innocent people is bad, then you must be against free speech as well. If you think that health care should be a basic right in a society, rather than a commodity to be profitted from, then you must think that repressive dictatorships are the highest form of virtue. If you're against demagogues trying to enshrine their hate-filled, narrow interpretation of their religion into the nation's laws, then you must be dismissive of the scientific accomplishments of other members of the country.
It's the pedantic all-or-nothing notion behind the phrase "do you hate America?" that I hate. There are things which I love about America and things that I hate about it and my opinions about the former have no bearing on my opinions about the latter. There are aspects where it's a model society and aspects where it's the anti-thesis of a model society, the same as every other country in the world. It's better than most in most areas and worse than some in other areas.
The "with us or against us" mentality is despicable though, and is an attitude that I'm very much against.
Can I steal tom Sawyers post and pretend that I said it? I think he pretty much hit the nail on the head. :thumb:
Then I apologise unreserverdly.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gambo
Ah - Sorry, although you do normally have a good sense of humour I do see you as quite bullish when it comes to certain subjects, and I thought you where being serious. You see, that's the problem with the internet, no body language hints.Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gambo
Not at all (to the "So simply being patriotic towards ones on country is perceived as arrogance?" part of the quote). Americans have a lot of great things to be proud of. It is just that some of your countrymen use the word patriotism to disguise (amongst other things) blind devotion to your goverments policies (is it unpatriotic to disagree with the policy of the government), racism (anti-muslim, non-english, anti-French speaking sentiment - Freedom fries - we still laugh at that), and down-right illegal activity (retrospective immunity for breaking the law anyone?). That is not patriotism, it is facism.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanith
I love my country(s), yet I can still see the problems they face and by facing and overcoming those problems, I can make them better countries for the next generation. I believe most American citizens probably feel the same about the US, however it is never the level headed ones that make it on the news. As soon as an international camera crew turns up, it's inbred racist old uncle Jack that leaps infront of the camera to be interviewed, and all we hear is how anyone who questions the government is a godamn pinko commy who hates our troops and loves Al-Quidea. How the French shouldn't have any say in international affairs, because we fought WWII just for them, and they'd all be speaking German now if it wasn't for the US of A. And how if anyone suggests in any shape or form that we should somehow look into the reasons behind 9/11 and try to understand why these attacks where carried out, then they're obviously Iraqi lovin' terrorists themselves who are jealous of American's freedoms.... :rolleyes:
Of course, it doesn't help matters that your President is cut from the same cloth.... ;)
Sorry, Double post.
Gambo I've been trying to read your posts but I can see that you are a product of the American Education system and have no ability to spell. Could you perhaps get a spell-checker from a foreign country to check your English before you post?
I can't remember a time in my lifetime when the US media focused on what the rest of the world thought of America. I certainly never cared as an individual; how many people in a country sit back one evening and think to themselves 'I wonder how the people of Kazakhstan think of us Americans?'.
Most people are simply Bush haters. The funny aspect of that is Bush was labeled as the silent missing president, out playing golf, not holding press meetings, generally leaving the country to continue forward as it had - hardly attending to anything other than his tax cut program. It was only until 9/11 did Bush become an actual president and had to make real decisions.
The faulty intelligence he was given did state the possibility was extremely high for Saddam to have obtain weapons of mass destruction. Saddam continuously was cited many times for violating UN mandated weapons inspections, and with the oil-for-food scandal, perhaps the suspicions were great enough to justify an overthrow - at the very least it was a big smoking gun.
Bush made his decision, and the rest of the populous, especially the democratic left. But the war is just an excuse, they are simply upset Bush won twice against their own presidential nominations. Frankly, I'm surprised as well.
I don’t personally know anyone who blindly follows what the government says. The US was built on revolution and not trusting government. I know people on both sides of the political spectrum who feel this way. It’s perfectly American to not trust your government.Quote:
Originally Posted by SurfDemon
As far as racism goes I honestly don’t think the US corners the market in this category. You say the US is anti-Muslim, yet directly after 9/11 you didn’t see people burning down mosques or stories of people assaulting Muslims. You say the US is anti-French, yet you base this on Freedom Fries? This story was about one cafeteria inside the US capital renaming them for like a day, not some nationwide movement that the whole country bought into, what I find funny is that people in other nations actually thought this joke was real and indicative of all US sentiment (If you want to talk anti-French look at parts of your own Canada who absolutely hate and I mean hate the French in your own country for daring to try to separate).
No clue what you are referring to as far as illegal activity and “retrospective immunity” (I think you mean retroactive).
People generally believe what they want to believe and usually accept what the media tells them. So if a media organization (TV, internet, movies…etc) slants a certain way they are going to put forth those stories that support that, so it doesn’t surprise me how stereotypes can become fact in some people’s minds.Quote:
I love my country(s), yet I can still see the problems they face and by facing and overcoming those problems, I can make them better countries for the next generation. I believe most American citizens probably feel the same about the US, however it is never the level headed ones that make it on the news. As soon as an international camera crew turns up, it's inbred racist old uncle Jack that leaps infront of the camera to be interviewed, and all we hear is how anyone who questions the government is a godamn pinko commy who hates our troops and loves Al-Quidea. How the French shouldn't have any say in international affairs, because we fought WWII just for them, and they'd all be speaking German now if it wasn't for the US of A. And how if anyone suggests in any shape or form that we should somehow look into the reasons behind 9/11 and try to understand why these attacks where carried out, then they're obviously Iraqi lovin' terrorists themselves who are jealous of American's freedoms.... :rolleyes:
Questioning the government:
Most Americans don’t care if you question the government; in fact most people are expected to question what the government does. It’s what the US was built on, distrust of government. I think you are confusing those people who undermine their own government by giving aide, comfort, and support to the enemy. That’s not simple questioning.
WWII:
The US did give great support to Europe before, during, and after WWII. I think what most Americans are upset about are people trying to downplay or discredit the US and what they did during the war. Try to think how you feel when people think Canada never even participated in WWII to understand how Americans feel when people try to downplay or discredit their role.
9/11:
Americans want to understand 9/11 both the why’s and the how’s. Not sure what you are suggesting here, I sure hope you are not one of those 9/11 conspiracy nuts who think it was the Jews or the US government itself.
X
I certainly wouldn't have agreed with Bush for several of the decisions he made (in who to appoint to various things) had there been no war. And he just recently surpassed Reagan's record for most vacation days taken by a sitting president, so he's the alltime most absent president, though telecommuting isn't a bad thing, either. However, I particularly disliked the way he managed to squander America's good name. His father was much smarter with foreign affairs (and Clinton was better with domestic affairs, though he had plumper tastes than mine).
I think the whole point of that paragraph was that final joke. So let me wander off onto a different line. Being a big, bearded, white guy, other white guys expect me to share their views. This is helped because I can talk redneck with the best of them. One result is that I have no doubt that racism is alive and well in this country, because after people settle down a bit, their true feelings start coming out with the expectation that I share them. This got me thinking about stereotypes. I have been thinking about AI for a couple decades now, and observing what human brains do along those lines. It appears to me that the human brain is only really good at one thing: Pattern recognition. Even so-called "thinking" games, like chess, have proven to not involve much thought at all. Grand masters only evaluate one or two moves, and don't examine them in much depth. They can do this because they have played and studied so many games that they recognize board positions. Pattern recognition, again.
However, our brains work against us with pattern recognition. As anybody who thinks about it realizes, our senses are providing a deluge of information at every second. From this firehose, we are taking a sip that we call consciousness. The rest is ignored. In fact, the rest is often actively surpressed. There are some interesting studies on time dilation at moments of stress that show that time, as we perceive it, actually does slow down in moments of great stress. All attention is focused on a few inputs at the expense of the rest, which is called tunnel vision.
Tunnel vision isn't something that just occurs in moments of stress, though, it's how our brains decide which sip to take from the firehose. Our pattern recognizing brains are looking to fit the incoming stream into recognizable patterns, which is far easier than forming new patterns. Thus, once we believe any particular idea to be true, our brains will tend to emphasize supporting evidence, and ignore contrary evidence. Some of my work with Genetic Algorithms (GA) showed me that these blinders are affecting all aspects of my life, from mundane fish science to political philosophy. A GA, which is a simple construct at heart, has no such boundaries, and can find solutions that highly knowledgeable humans are mentally incapable of seeing.
From all I have done with this sort of thing, and observing conservatives, liberals, intellectuals, idiots (I spent a very enlightening afternoon in inadvertent bible study with a guy who was clearly insane, but that's another story), bigots, scientists, etc., I have reached the conclusion that whatever you believe, you're wrong. You may be wrong in every single piece, or only in a few aspects, but you are most certainly wrong. However, you have to make it through life, so you only need to make sure that the errors in your judgment are acceptable, and that you listen to other people. All significant advances in science come when we break through the blinders that constrain the things we can contemplate, such that we can see problems from a novel point of view.
If you ask for other opinions, don't complain about what you get, they aren't any more wrong than you are.
Who are you, and what have you done with Xanith:mad:Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanith
There's a pizza shop around my way that still has "Freedom Fries" on the menu. :afrog:Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanith
Me and some friends polished off a bottle of Absynth the other night (sp?) and someone explained the meaing of life to us but unfortunately I cannot remember most of it. I think there was a bit about being good to your friends and try to aim for the bowl when you pee. I think as long as you follow those rules you should be OK.
Well someone could have told me we were joking! I've been sending the Cheese Eating Surrender Monkeys hate mail for over 6 years now! I obviously didn't get the memo.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanith
That's why I watch Fox - For it's unbiased reporting. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanith
Canada was in WWII?Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanith
Yes! Unless they're pinko commy subversives like that preacher of Obama's. Pffft! What a ridiculous thing to suggest, the US hasn't hurt a single soul overseas in years. They're just ungrateful - that's what it is!Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanith
See what he said.....
Quote:
He told his congregation on the Sunday after Sept. 11, 2001 that the United States had brought on al Qaeda's attacks because of its own terrorism.
"We bombed Hiroshima, we bombed Nagasaki, and we nuked far more than the thousands in New York and the Pentagon, and we never batted an eye," Rev. Wright said in a sermon on Sept. 16, 2001.
"We have supported state terrorism against the Palestinians and black South Africans, and now we are indignant because the stuff we have done overseas is now brought right back to our own front yards. America's chickens are coming home to roost," he told his congregation.
The second one :afrog:Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzzi