ppl using my code without making a reference to me...

Today I found a second thread where someone posted my code without making a reference to me...

Here shirazamod copyed and pasted the RndCrypt function from my thread in CodeBank
http://www.vbforums.com/showthread.php?t=368362
The CodeBank Thread: VB - 31 Bit Encryption function

Here Static copyed and pasted my QuickSort function from CodeBank
http://www.vbforums.com/showthread.php?t=373378
The CodeBank Thread: VB - Quick Sort algorithm (very fast sorting algorithm)

I don't think its fair that someone should get repped (if they did) for something that I did...

These are 2 threads that I found myself, but since I found those 2 threads, i'm wondering how many others are like this.

Instead of copying and pasting the code, I think people should post a link to the thread where the code is...

Don't you think that's the fair action ?

I agree 100% and members have been given negative reps by me and others for posting someone's code without crediting the author, or at least saying something like "I don't remember where I found this code".

Quote:

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Originally Posted by CVMichael

These are 2 threads that I found myself, but since I found those 2 threads, i'm wondering how many others are like this.

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Where you see one rat...

Those of us in the database section of the forum are much more respectful - I've been referenced many times and/or linked to ;)

I would say they MUST be banned at least... Would that be effective? Don't know but some action is necessary, I'm sure of it.

Hmmm, perhaps HALL OF SHAME might work better... I'm just afraid that this may create monster even bigger than rep system... :eek2:

Yes, posting links is the proper way to "repost code". This not only gives the original poster of the code the ability to get the respect/credit/reps for writting the code but also looks good that you had the mannors to give credit where credit is due. :)

Honestly. I dont think its a big deal. It's not copyright or anything..no offense, that is how I feel. Maybe you should stick credits in the middle of your functions/classes or whatever so it shows that they had an effort to remove your name etc :wave:

Personally, if someone posts code that someone helped them with before..I dont think it matters. I have posted code that I have saved in a special folder on my computer for excellent posts so I dont have to go searching..

Just my 2 cents..

True but when you post others code do you mention that you didnt write it? If you dont then they think you did and then if you get reps then most members feel its not ethical.

My 3 cents :)

No I dont post that I didnt write it, I'm like, Here try this code:

Honestly, searching in a pain in the shmeggiggle. This is the internet! Open Source is everything!

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Originally Posted by RobDog888

... its not ethical.

My 3 cents :)

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I totally agree...

My 4 cents. :)

If it's possible to give credit, then great. I've seen my code posted before, and rarely have said anything about it. I have 450 samples that I've posted (in 4 pages of attachments), and I know that I've copied most of them, and made changes to half of them.

I usually post links from my attachment list, that I have posted before.

If someone wants to take credit, they can comment the code with their name, just like ALLAPI does. I've never removed comments from code samples, but if they weren't there, and I have no idea who wrote it, then all I can do is say I may have not written all the code that I'd posted.

I was going to put it in my signature before, but decided not to.

I look at 200 attachments per page.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RobDog888

its not ethical.

My 3 cents :)

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by RhinoBull

I totally agree...

My 4 cents. :)

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I totally totally agree.

My 5 cents. :)

well it is unethical and i agree with CVM, Hack and RhinoBull, but see on the other side. ppl use whole project from vbAccelerator thesis work and dont even bother to put name of the site or the author (Steve McMahon) in the Biblio section or in the acknowledgement, even though vbAcc copyrights them.

i do agree that its a bad practise, but honestly, none can stop this. rather just give a negative rep to them.

It could be claimed that any positive rep points given to the re-poster of the code was for the posting of the code and not the writing of the code. In looking at how the code was presented, I did not see the re-poster taking any ownership of it, but rather simply providing it as a solution. As such, I see nothing wrong with it.

Having said that, yes, I agree that a link would have been more appropriate - but I see nothing wrong with what the poster did.

<in my opinion> If it is critical that your name always be associated with the code, then you should include it in the code or in a comment line at the beginning of the code.

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This is the internet! Open Source is everything!

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Just to clarify, code being open source doesn't mean that you can ignore copyright notices or authorship credits (just like it also doesn't mean that the code is necessarily free).

I'm with the above poster on this. The fact that you're providing a solution here on VBF means that everyone is going to have a look at it, and you shouldn't worry so much about it being re-used later. After all, we're here for helping out more than we are for credit. Right? ;)

My €1. (More valuable than a cent, more valuable than a dollar :afrog: )

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mendhak

I'm with the above poster on this. The fact that you're providing a solution here on VBF means that everyone is going to have a look at it, and you shouldn't worry so much about it being re-used later. After all, we're here for helping out more than we are for credit. Right? ;)

My €1. (More valuable than a cent, more valuable than a dollar :afrog: )

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I agree, and that is why I don't get too terribly upset about it (I've seen code I've written and posted reposted numerous times).

But, from a purely philosophical standpoint, I do think it unethical to use others code without some form of author's acknowledgement.

Thanks for everyone's feedback !

I edited my threads in the CodeBank, and just added a comment line in the code like "Made by Michael Ciurescu (CVMichael from vbforums.com)".

When I originally posted the code, I did not think it is neccessary, but it seems I was wrong...

[Edit], I also added a link to the original thread in the code as a comment.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by brad jones

Just to clarify, code being open source doesn't mean that you can ignore copyright notices or authorship credits (just like it also doesn't mean that the code is necessarily free).

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Of course not, but on vbforums anything posted is not copyrighted..

CV, I wish everyone had done that for the past few years. I'm not deleting all of my attachments, and VB Samples folder and starting again. I agree with Brad, that if I can find a link to the solution, and post it, then the thread gets resolved quicker. If I have your program, and I post it, I won't know it if I downloaded the old version.

Well, I did not edit the threads where I have code as atachments, because I loose the number of downloads for that attachment...
If there was a way to edit my attachments without loosing the download count, then I would add "Made by CVMichael" in the atachments code also...

No there isn't but it's not that important is it?

I use different version numbers to a few of my attachments, and have no problem replacing old code with new, when I add something that will be helpful to everybody. Who cares how many people downloaded it? Also, you don't know where else they might be using your code. I don't worry about it, unless somebody slaps me for using their code "multiple times,' and then searches the forums to find the threads! :)

It only happened once, and I tried to complain about it. Now, it doesn't really matter. I try to add a disclaimer to anything that could be controversial, and seem to have less problems, in general.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by |2eM!x

Of course not, but on vbforums anything posted is not copyrighted..

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I disagree 100%. When Jupiter Media purchased vbforums there was an uproar about ownership of the posted code. To quote Brad from a past thread - "Code posted on vbforums is owned by the poster and JM assumes that the poster either is the author or has the permissions to re-post it. Jupiter Media is licensed to use the code but still all copyrights are assumed to be of the poster." It is quite close to his exact words and maybe I can find the post and properly quote him or maybe Brad can just verify this.

That doesnt make sense..If i make my code up, paste it on here, it is not copyrighted, and free to use by all. If you mean thats not allowed here..- Man im out then..

How could you get that from what I posted? If you post your code then it is automatically assumed that its yours and you have the copyright. Thats all. If its yours and you want everyone to use it then thats up to you. If you dont want it to be sold or reposted on other websites then you have rights as its automatically copyrighted by posting it if you have the right.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RobDog888

How could you get that from what I posted? If you post your code then it is automatically assumed that its yours and you have the copyright. Thats all. If its yours and you want everyone to use it then thats up to you. If you dont want it to be sold or reposted on other websites then you have rights as its automatically copyrighted by posting it if you have the right.

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Im not sure we are talking about the same stuff to beign with..It seems like I dont know how to type because no one understands me anymore.. :sick:

:lol: Same here. :)

Brad posted in #13. By what you say, anyone that copy/pastes off the forum or downloads source code is in violation? I think you have to include a (c) if your intention is to copyright it anyways, plus include the year.

Ever notice that the same code is posted on more than one forum? Are you going to sue that forum for violating your copyright, or should JM go after them, and shut them down? :)

Ever notice that there is usually 4 times the number of guests than members? What do you think they're doing?

No, you dont really need the © symbol or Copyright notice. As an author of the code you automatically obtain that right. I have researched the copyright process before and the © is absolutely not required but it helps.


If something is copyrighted on another forum and a member posts it here then because of JM's AUP you are the only one liable for copyright infringement. If the other site finds out they can contact JM and they in turn will contact you. Depening on the site they may pursue legal matters against you.


I dont know why its soooo hard to understand? If you read a book are you going to get sued? I thnk not. If you re-publish its contents then be all means you will be sued. Simple as that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dglienna

Ever notice that there is usually 4 times the number of guests than members? What do you think they're doing?

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Reading truly stupid cat-posts in CC that prove how .... never mind ....

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RobDog888

I dont know why its soooo hard to understand? If you read a book are you going to get sued? I thnk not. If you re-publish its contents then be all means you will be sued. Simple as that.

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I find it a natural tendency to not steal from another person the code they wrote. I do look at ideas and concepts - and they obviously become part of my life...

I've fired people who worked for me that felt that copy-right-infringement (music, software - whatever) was not important.

I don't need their karma dragging me down...

This is so pointless..dont post code if you dont want to share..

Quote:

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I find it a natural tendency to not steal from another person the code they wrote.

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How is it stealing if its been posted? Stealing is taking something without consent. Posting anywhere, definately makes it legit..

All music is based on the same 12 keys, which JS Bach invented a long time ago.
He standardized music, with his Equally Tempered Clavier Composition

Everything since then has been a copy, but they don't count it that way.

Movie scripts have been re-written and changed. You get credit for the concept, but you can't stop them from writing a new version.

There are people that "can't post their code" for whatever reason. Apparently someone doesn't want it to be given away.

If you don't want to share, then stay in Chit Chat! (and even that gets stolen occasionally)

CV - I think that this all needs to be put in perspective.

Quicksort - one of your issues - is a standard algorithm, published for decades now.

I understand that when you see your exact "keystrokes" copy/pasted that you feel ownership - but for that one - not really.

I've shared a large amount of proprietary concepts with people on the forum. My partner has chastised me occasionally for it - but in the long run - I benefit from the relationship that I forge with other on the forum.

It is a give and take - that's what the forum is all about...

My 2 cents anyway :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RobDog888

... Jupiter Media is licensed to use the code ...

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This WAS a big deal when JM took over VBF back (hmmm...) about 4 years ago or so. Some people left just because of this statement.

and became guests?

I'm a little confused about this whole debate thing: how much effort is needed to say something like "originally posted by ..." or "HERE is a link to orinal therad" ??? Or people tend to compete for number of posts so they don't want to type few extra words?! I'm really sick of that "you bit me again..." kind of crap.
I trully believe that Michael's complaint is justified. There is a serious point and I don't quite get it WHY in heck some of you are trying to say that this is OK when its NOT !!! Common guys - stop this nonsense. This is wrong.

Cheers all.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dglienna

and became guests?

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NO, they left for another board, though.

I stated that I have 450+ folders, and no idea if any of them are unmodified, or copied, and fixed, or written as samples. If you want to figure it out for me, you can identify them. Then I'd still have to delete my attachment (and lose downloads) and upload the replacement.

I think we could set a precedent for the future, though, if we all aggreed

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dglienna

I stated that I have 450+ folders, ...

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What are you talking about ? :eek2:

Post #10. It seems to be a two-edged sword...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by szlamany

CV - I think that this all needs to be put in perspective.

Quicksort - one of your issues - is a standard algorithm, published for decades now.

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Yes, the algorithm itself is not written by me (obviously)
I originally had it in C, and I got the code from school.
All i did was to convert the code from C to VB...
And I don't "hold" to that code that much.

What I really care about is my RndCrypt code, because it was totally invented by me. It was not modified from someone else's code... it was not converted...
I had the idea, and wrote it.
Same with the other encryption thread (the High Encryption one in the CodeBank), it was totally my idea, and later on, I found out that I was not the only one with simmilar idea...

On a side note: This thread has turned out much bigger than i originally thought, I did not mean to cause disagreements between you guys of any kind.
I can't quite keep up with what you guys are talking about...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MartinLiss

No there isn't but it's not that important is it?

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your right, it's not that important, i just like to know how many people download my code.
You know... the more people download it, the more gratification I get :D

You touched on the main point of confusion here I believe.

I and a few others are talking about CodeBank thread type posts.

Others are just talking about regular post replies.


I dont care much about regular replies as I usually write custom code for that exact situation. On the other side, I have code like my SpellChecker thread that I did make sure to post a copyright on but I still found my code was stolen and reposted on another forums site exactly as mine is with the exception that they changed the copyright notice to their name. Needless to say I contacted the site admin (which was the one that stole my code) and notified him that if it wasnt removed I would sue. I even contacted his free forums hosting company as part of the license is that they dont do certain illeagal things such as that.

I think most would agree that CodeBank threads should definately be off limits for re-posting but regular threads should at least, as a courteousy, be linked to so credit can be given. Dont forget you can still get rep'd for helping in finding a solution just by posting a link. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RobDog888

I think most would agree that CodeBank threads should definately be off limits for re-posting but regular threads should at least, as a courteousy, be linked to so credit can be given. Dont forget you can still get rep'd for helping in finding a solution just by posting a link. ;)

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I agree with all the points made in that statement...

forget it. i quit :) nah, tomorrow is another day. so close...}

I'll chuck in my variable amount of currency:

If I post code I generally do not include any comments saying that I wrote it, or that I give two hoots who uses it for what. If I post a zipped sample project that I completely wrote, I will include my name in the sample, I do not mind if it is used or modified by others in any manner but I do expect people to acknowledge that I was the original author, if they suggest its use to others. Otherwise, it would appear that they are taking credit for something that they have not written. If they simply link to my post - that is fine, then anyone can see that I wrote it and posted the original sample.

Brad's exact words are as follows.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by brad jones

Any code -- unless you sold it to VBWorld/VBForums -- is owned by the poster.
{ http://www.vbforums.com/showpost.php...6&postcount=17 }

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As for copyright - there is no definition of copyright that applies globally - but you are expected to respect the author's ownership and rights regarding at least works that include the copyright © symbol.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Remix

This is so pointless..dont post code if you dont want to share..

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You are correct - this is a public site and you cannot stop people from using code that you post. However, you have a right to claim ownership of that code, and to require that you are given due credit for its use in any situation. You also have the right to waive those rights, if you wish to do so - but you are expected to respect others'.

Yes, that part that Brad said is what I posted earlier but was in still yet another thread. Yes, if its posted then its also considered published. This act if you are the original author can assist in enforcing your copyright authorship of the concerned code.

Jeez. I don't know if I have any samples from the CodeBank, or if I changed them. If I post code, and someone PM's me that they wrote it, I will change the post to include their name. I don't want bad blood, but keeping what I have helps more people than not posting code.

There are multiple issues being discussed in this thread. Copyright is one and recognition of the original poster of code is the other.

If there are still issues on either of these that need addressed, let me know. I think they have been beat into the ground pretty hard.

Brad!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RobDog888

You touched on the main point of confusion here I believe.

I and a few others are talking about CodeBank thread type posts.

Others are just talking about regular post replies.


I dont care much about regular replies as I usually write custom code for that exact situation. On the other side, I have code like my SpellChecker thread that I did make sure to post a copyright on but I still found my code was stolen and reposted on another forums site exactly as mine is with the exception that they changed the copyright notice to their name. Needless to say I contacted the site admin (which was the one that stole my code) and notified him that if it wasnt removed I would sue. I even contacted his free forums hosting company as part of the license is that they dont do certain illeagal things such as that.

I think most would agree that CodeBank threads should definately be off limits for re-posting but regular threads should at least, as a courteousy, be linked to so credit can be given. Dont forget you can still get rep'd for helping in finding a solution just by posting a link. ;)

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Dear Rob,

how can you explain or prove that the code they copied actually belongs to you when it is not copyrighted?

please, no offences but seriously i wanted to know this. thnx

Because of the guidelines available at http://www.copyright.gov for the USA describe all the limits and liabilities.

Quote:

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When is my work protected?
Your work is under copyright protection the moment it is created and fixed in a tangible form that it is perceptible either directly or with the aid of a machine or device.

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by RobDog888

Because of the guidelines available at http://www.copyright.gov for the USA describe all the limits and liabilities.

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yes i agree with it, but once your code has been copied and modified, how can you defend your point that "I am the author of this Code or Snippet!!"?

exactly same happened with me last year in my college when my junior copied my program and my professor (please penagte see if it's correct) blamed me that i copied from him!! :sick: it was

If you had posted your code or emailed it back to yourself you would have had a defense.

Creation timestamp on the files ?

Other than that, you can put a date on everything you do. Or post it to a fixed source as Rob suggests, or make a backup - etc.

Although, if you and another student have the same code - then the professor can't blame only one of you and not the other, until one of you proves you were the original author. There are various methods, like comparison of style with other individual submissions, etc.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by penagate

Creation timestamp on the files ?

Other than that, you can put a date on everything you do. Or post it to a fixed source as Rob suggests, or make a backup - etc.

Although, if you and another student have the same code - then the professor can't blame only one of you and not the other, until one of you proves you were the original author. There are various methods, like comparison of style with other individual submissions, etc.

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Besides, I'd guess that the one who originally wrote the code could tell what the different functions/etc does better than the other who just stole it.