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Just announced tonight, seems that they are identifying Los Angeles and Melbourne as the next targets for a terrorist attack. On the heels of hurricane katrina and the London bombings, this would be devistating to all. Do you think they are real threats or just trying to make us live in a life of fear?
I really really feel sorry for these terrorists
so hopeless they are..... the idiots can't use logical ways to send their message to people (whatever it is), so they cling to murder.
Ya, its similar to hackers and virus authors. They are so smart that they can get into or around anything but they cant put their knowledge to good use like getting a good job or creating some new powerful software.
yeah slightly similar
but the point is.... the terrorist has got to have a message to send, and he can't hahahaha:D bombings and whatnot will just turn the whole world against them and their message (even if it'd be right, doubtfully heh).
total morans:afrog:
Well if they spent 1/10 as much effort on doing something to positively promote their cause they would get 100x the response and actually make some progress to solve their issues. But the way they are doing things now they are getting the world to hate them.
They operate through threats. Whats new :)
They usually carry out their threats. I dont see why they are picking on Melbourne though.
The Irish, and English have had to deal with the IRA for 40+ years so they have much experience with terrorists. If there is anything to be learned from this, it is all about the shock factor.
The Omagh bombing is a perfect example. Instead of a simple bomb they use a nail bomb. What the bomb didn't kill, the 60mph nails did. Men, women and children alike.
Believe me, if they have the conviction you will not stop them. Just get on with life and don't let them get to you. That is why the IRA has now given up, not only did they realise that they changed nothing but they were also slowly losing support from their own countrymen. We need to identify who Al-Qaeda's supporters are. Once done we need to squeeze them where it hurts....financially. Imagine we threatened to stop purchasing oil from said country by developing the electric car. They'd wet themselves as they'd suddenly lose 90% of their exports!
As for LA and Melbourne. LA is a definite possibility as nothing on the Western coast has been hit as yet. Melbourne isn't likely as Sydney would be the better target for shock factor....especially the iconic opera house. Remember these attacks have not been about casualty rates. A bomb in a sport stadium would be more effective...these are about targeting monuments:
The Twin Towers
London Underground
Madrid station (which is almost as old as rail travel itself)
LA? - Hollywood or Beverly Hills?
Sydney? - Sydney Opera House or Sydney Bridge?
True, they dont seem to be logical at all as areas of mass population are not targeted but more targeting of the monuments and functionality loss or other areas. They could easily target LAX as I think previous threats were made on it. This would be killing of many people and disabling of its functionality. Not to mention the disruption of life for the entire so. cal area. LAX is a vital part of life here and I think its in the top 5 busiest airports in the world.
LAX is a possibility but security may be a bit too tight there.
I thought the Golden Gate Bridge would be a more likely target.
They mentioned in their video that it was LA and Melbourne. So who knows what their thinking. :rolleyes:
The person in the video is thought to be an American who converted to Islam. I was under the impression that the CIA thought he was more bark than bite.
Yes, the guy is from so. cal and they know exactly who he is and that he is in Packestan right now. :lol: Packestan? Pakestan? Pakastan?
Yeah, whatever. None of those spellings look right, but I can't think how to spell it either.
The whole video could just be some kid spouting off to feel important. That was the tone of the report I heard.
Hopefully they screw up in LA and blow up Michael Moore's House. Actually LAX has already been a target. They arrested a guy in Seattle a few years back with a truckload of explosives. He admitted it was to blow up at LAX. Can't remember the fellas name, though.
Pakistan I think.
Doesn't seem like a lot of weight is being given to the latest message, just some propaganda on the 9/11 anniversary.
I hear there are major power outages in LA right now, but initial word is that it's not terror related.
The power companies do that every summer. It sucks, Our power bills in Seattle go up because of it. California claims a shortage and hikes their rates. Then they buy Washington State power at a ridiculously low rate and charge top dollar to Californians for it. In turn Washington State and Oregon power companies Jack up their prices using the diversion of power to California as an excuse. Just another way for the Energy "Drug" Dealers to gouge us a little deeper. Same thing going on with Gasoline right now. Only it's on a continental Level between the US Mexico and Canada.Quote:
Originally Posted by demotivater
If you made a poll I would have chosen "...or just trying to make us live in a life of fear..."Quote:
Originally Posted by RobDog888
"Claims shortages", until you live here and get your power turned off, not for non-payment of the bill, and have to get by without electricity will you believe. Or to have major blackouts because everyone in the city is using air conditioners and fans to keep cool during the summer and blowing the power grid will you then believe that we do have a real power issue in CA. ;)
I never said there wasn't a power issue. I just question how many of the power issues are self inflicted by the power companies. Funny, even with a shortage of power generating plants and the insane amount of profit the power companies make. Every summer your grids crash. Why? See my other posts. It gives your power companies a good excuse to gouge you and my power supplier to gouge me. Funny a prive company can provide a defective product and not be responsible for the cost. Imagine Firestone jacking up the prices of the tires because they are defective and there will be a shortage of that particular make of defective tires.
Well I'm sure they passed along the cost to any future tire purchases. ;)
It probably crashes because the power grid is old and is need of a major upgrade. It was all a scam and thanks to stupid Grey Davis for ruining our state! :(
Grey Davis? I heard the power grid failures were caused by some waco using power tools to remodel his house in the middle of summer :DQuote:
Originally Posted by RobDog888
Grey Davis is our previous Govenor that we booted out of office for the Terminator. :D
Hey, I bet our Govenor can kick your Govenor's ass! :D :lol:
Yes, I heard that too. The guy suppossedily has all kinds of Craftsman and Portor Cable power tools in his garage. :D
Some people say that the binding referenda that 'the people' can hold in your state has been detremental to the politics. Any views on that? I'm curious because here there is talk that whe should have binding referenda.Quote:
Originally Posted by RobDog888
As much as we like democracy, a republic is a better idea.
I grew up in a small (but rich) town where the big budget items were voted on at a town meeting. Since the revenue source that paid for these items was property taxes, people were paying for their decisions.
This looks like a particularly fair way to do things, and generally people appeared to make rational choices. Since everybody understood why we needed snow plows, items like that generally received strong support. However, it wasn't always that way.
One year, an item came up early on. Somebody pointed out that buying the item directly (as opposed to a loan) would save money (no interest). My mother (who headed the town council) informed them that buying directly would save money, but the entire amount of the purchase would have to come out of next years budget, which would mean that taxes would be higher. That was fine with people, and they went on to purchase everything up front that year. No bonds at all, but several purchases. Naturally, taxes went through the roof. The town was not allowed to run a deficit, so tax revenue had to be increased to cover the will of the people.
The next year, everybody had forgotten that they did this to themselves. Nobody was willing to buy ANYTHING. A new plow was on the agenda because one of the old ones was barely driveable. Somebody suggested plowing with the road grader rather than buying a plow. It was pointed out that you would be wearing out a very expensive, very specialized piece of equipment. This would mean saving a small amount now in place of a MUCH greater cost in a couple of years. This was ignored, and pretty much every other expense was defeated as well.
They stampeded in one direction the first year, even though they knew it would make their taxes soar in the next year. However, once they actually felt the effect, they turned and stampeded in the other direction the next year....even though they knew it would cost them more in the long run.
This is democracy. It is not wise and it is not visionary. However, it does represent the view of the people at the moment the view is polled. Binding referenda have the same effect. They are as likely to reflect a very short-term irrational view as a long-term directive.
Well, I was biased against them but you've tipped me over Shaggy Hiker
Isn't the US a republic?
(UK is a democracy as the monarch has no actual ruling powers)
For me it is horrific to see the consiwquence of terrorism, from the media.
I hate terrorism so much, because innocent people die etc, for njo real reason. When bush invaded iraq there was a reason, not oil, but hussan had to be stopped, he was a murderer, and for that we make ourselves targets, for trying to help.
Its a weird feeling, i really delike terrorism, but cannot describe my hate for it enough.
ILMV
Now you know how the Irish have felt for the past 40 years, remember terrorism has been around for a long long time. The US (I think mostly in NY?) has had a bad rep because of their support for the IRA which will take some time to rectify
What if AlQaeda is responsible for Hurricane Katrina?! :eek2:Quote:
Originally Posted by RobDog888
New Al-Qaeda Threats?
Ok. How about:
Make Al-Queda Game Mod, or I sleep with you goat!
And ever since we captured Saddam and defeated his resheem (however you spell it), the War in Iraq has been over, and we continue the fight on the War on Terror. Yes we continue to fight in Iraq as well as other Middle Eastern countries, only we are not fighting Iraqis. Terrorists from all over the Middle East have been coming into Iraq to fight us, and our allies and try to disable everything that has been done. People tend to confuse this war with the War In Iraq, but it's not. Just that Iraq turned out to be a battleground in the War on Terror.Quote:
Originally Posted by I_Love_My_Vans
The media hype has really made me angry cause of how biased they have been. They try to make the War seem like a waste of time, and that we shouldn't be there, etc. And they bash Bush any chance they get and do what they can to make him look bad.
The UK monarchy has absolute ruling powers.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valleysboy1978
Every law passed in the UK is underwritten by the head of the Church Of England - the Queen. It's just that the last time a monarch excercised these rights, parliament lopped his head off.
So the Queen doesn't seem too keen to exercise her birthright's these days. But heriditary peers feel it's ok, and they also do exercise their rights.
I agree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker
Democracy is a compromised fudge; and what's worse is that we wish to instill such an idea into every nation on the planet.
OK that's a bit strong. But after a little thought anyone can see that the vote is given to all and sundry.
This includes (in the UK) people like the British National Party. For those who have never heard of the BNP, then this is our version of facists. They believe everyone who is not caucasian should be sent back 'to their own country'
Democracy by definition is the idea that all views of a populace are represented in the governing body. This includes the good the bad, and the ugly.
Given that information dissemination is mainly proprieted through the (bias) media, then any decision of a vote will be made through the apparent truths the tabloids vomit up.
Freedom of information, and the concept of a free press is an illusion. Each editor, sub-editor, and journalist has their take on a story. All of it makes it into the publication.
Effectively we are told what we believe. Even worse, the majority will purchase the newspaper that most aligns with their beliefs, creating some kind of negative-feedback re-enforcement loop. A loop that decries rational thought. And, by jove, if you think for yourself: you'll be labelled something horrible, and the press will dig up all the skeletons in your closet and destroy what little of a life you ever had.
In the old(er) days in the UK the government was made up of people who had the right to govern through their birthrights.
This, essentially, is abhorrent, in today's media world. Most will agree that these presents many problems for what we, today, call freedom.
But those who shout the loudest forget the advantages of such a system. The onus on that system was that all the heriditary children were forced to learn how to govern from the earliest of ages. These people were made to dedicate their lives to the governing of a country. They had the best education; a remnant still lives on in places like Eton (etc etc)
Today a successful politician could be an alcholic bumbling fool (Churchill) a wife-beater (Rooselvelt). The one's whose social circumstances appear the best - like a vegan (Hitler) become the biggest brutes of all.
So what chance do we have of measuring a politician's effectiveness. If my local Member of Parliament was an alcoholic would I vote of him? Of course not. But If I was alive in the late 1930's I wouldn't have voted in Churchill and I would probably be speaking German now (Chamberlain may have won another election!)
The media spin and their subsequent obsessions, has destroyed any chance that a normal voter will ever have of making a rational decision of who to vote for. If you can't make a rational decision then (i) You don't bother to vote - and the BNP get a foothold in society because you be sure that their supporters will turn out (ii) you vote in an idiot who turns out to be a meglomaniac.
Which makes modern democracy a farce.
Well, the media are always hyping, but during the beginning of the Iraq 'thing' my feeling was the int. media (CNN) were biased for the war (I do not receive channels such as Fox or MSNBC). So if they are biased against now then they are compensating their own blind following earlier.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Roman
The funny thing is that the people demand spin.Quote:
Originally Posted by yrwyddfa
People don't, though. I think they've had enough of it. They see it, they recognise it; they hate it.
I know I do: and I'm the most guilty of all for spinning . . .
My life has always been about playing politics at the personal all the way to the professional level.
They watch it so they want it, when shows don't get watched they get cancelled.
I think that's a vastly simplified point of view.
I'll await the explanation then :D
I think people have some tendency to demand their politicians to entertain them. They prefer loud talk over unnewsworthy cooperation efforts, When politicians know this they will provide the required acting for the votes.
I can't see the populace in that way. I, probably my mistake, still have some faith in some sort of belief in the rational capacity of the common people.
He doesn't need the medias help, and they are barely touching on the things that he has done that would piss off the majority in this country.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jacob Roman
Oh yeah, we're still fighting Iraqis. There are foreign fighters, but there are plenty of natives. There is also a growing civil conflict between sunni and shiite. Kind of looks like everybody will be firing at everybody else soon enough.
I don't.Quote:
Originally Posted by yrwyddfa
Fact is, the folks on this forum are far from average. We tend to be much more educated, much better informed, and above average in intelligence when compared to the average citizen in any country (certainly when compared to the US where I live). We don't represent squat, and we only speak for a minority...even Xanith.
The majority does not read much, and watches little news. They may watch news often, but anybody who has only seen news shows once every few years as I have, has noted that there is very little news on TV anymore. The news shows on most networks have one or two actual stories, then a few pseudo-news stories that are about celebrities somewhere. What can you learn from that? Not much!
I see a continual attack on intelligence in this country these days. Sometimes it is explicit, such as kids bullying those who do well in classes (makes the rest look bad). Sometimes it is more subtle. The conservative wing goes after 'liberal institutions'. However, their definition of 'liberal institution' is anything that sees shades of gray. They have lumped all the top colleges (every college except some conservative schools are demonized at will by the conservatives), all media except for right-wing sources like fox and conservative talk radio, and all other groups that are well informed together into this 'liberal influence' agains which they fight.
If you dumb down the colleges, if you silence all media except vapid news programs and right-wing propaganda, and if you push intelligent design (rather than the Flying Spaghetti Monster who obviously was the true creator), what do you get?
The Dark Ages.
That was the only period in known history when the pooled knowledge of man in Europe actually declined. Historians have shown that many facts (such as the shape of the earth) were known prior to the dark ages, then were lost, only to be re-discovered at a later time.
There are forces at work who seek to drive humanity into another dark age. They are not some big conspiracy, and not necessarily actual people. Just a confluence of attitudes, conservatism, and consolidation of media that is promoting ignorance in place of knowledge.
I think you have it all wrong Shaggy. The problem I have with the so-called liberal institutionalized Learning Centers (University’s and Colleges) is that they are the ones that are blocking other points of view and not opening up peoples minds. I’ve been to college and have been told flat out that alternate idea’s and ways of thinking are completely wrong and have been threatened with being failed if I didn’t come around to the “correct” way of thinking.
Isn’t the college experience supposed to open your mind to many idea’s, not to just indoctrinate you to one line of thinking? I don’t know any conservative that is opposed to open dialog and free thought. What is opposed is liberal indoctrination and the refusal to teach different points of view. So tell me who are the close minded dragging us back to the Dark Ages as you put it, the people who want an open dialog with many points of view or those that simply want to indoctrinate and push their view upon others? Think about it.
X
No I would disagree. For my Batchelors degree we were basically educated in the current methods, techniques and thinking in the IT industry. However, for my Masters degree we are actively encouraged to critique other peoples work, questioning current convention and explaining our reasons.
Universities are all about educating you to be able to work in that chosen industry, the way you think is entirely up to you because no-one can change how you see the world unless you allow them to
A 'view' is a belief necessarily because of it's definition. Belief's are opinions formed from experience and an 'inbuilt' morality. How that morality get's inbuilt is the subject of some controversy; the nature/nuture argument to name one. It goes without saying that most people hold beliefs that sometimes have empirical evidence, and sometimes are completely void of it. This is the nature of man.
I think that Shaggy's point that there is (i) No one class of person, (ii) no single belief that can be targetted as being responsible for the decline of intelligence is a valid one, and I think Xanith, that that is the answer your looking for: there isn't an answer.
So, being that you've been educated to work in the IT industry, and one presumes that you're a programmer, then exactly how many times have you used (for your job) Formal methods, set theory, combinatorics, graph theory (the list goes on . . . )Quote:
Originally Posted by Valleysboy1978
Or do you buy it of the shelf like the rest of us?
:rolleyes:
Why do you always have to over complicate things?
I was attempting to point out that the higher the education the more likely a less opinionated view can be achieved, but nevertheless the individual will always come to their own conclusion
I didn't think I had :confused:Quote:
Originally Posted by Valleysboy1978
:lol:
just jealous of your English language skills :thumb:
:lol:
Righteyo then :confused:
Wow, I didn't even think conservatives considered themselves open minded.Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanith
I actually think that a big part of the decline of intelligence is a sense of overload. It wasn't much over 100 years ago when an educated man could be conversant with the total knowledge of most fields of science. Now, the pool of total knowledge is such that a person could be an expert on a particular beetle, conversant on beetles in general, familiar with most insects and a few other animals, know nothing about plants, and still be regarded as well-informed in biology.
People expect me to be an expert on computers, but I am well aware that there is plenty that I don't know. In fact, the amount that I don't know is almost certainly greater than the amount that I do know, and I study the subject.
Considering this level of information, it is hardly surprising that the average person is feeling overwhelmed by it and is looking for simple answers to simplify the issues they face every day. The total is too much, and they turn off.
open-minded conservatives? Then surely not the ones involved in the creationism-evolution debate... :)
Yeah it's a good point. The point you make about a lack of ambition in aquiring intellectual skills is better, though. And as you've already said: it's all around.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shaggy Hiker