Is there any way it can be moved to the bottom of the visual basic section? I dont know how other people feel, but i find it quite irritating where vb.net was..
If not, then ill just shut up
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Is there any way it can be moved to the bottom of the visual basic section? I dont know how other people feel, but i find it quite irritating where vb.net was..
If not, then ill just shut up
I can understand where you are coming from with that.
My view however is that if it is further down the page then newcomers (which is who it is most likely to apply to) are less likely to see it.
I know that it may be annoying, but you'll soon get used to the change :)
Well then shouldnt it be at the top? Also, shouldnt the FAQ bar at the top redirect to the FAQ Section?
It is irritating, no doubt. They should simply cut those adds by at lest half so there will be more than enough room for everything.
Hmmmmnnn... It seems those two FAQ's are quite confusing... There should be a distinction between them. :)
I think I understand you now, when I used an 800 x 600 resolution those ads actually almost occupied half of the screen. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by RhinoBull
they do take 1/2 my screen : /
How about placing the FAQ Forum first. Then VB Classic and VB.NET?
Nooooooo..., no way. Leave it how it is, it's fine. I hardly ever go in the VB.NET forum, but I go in several of the ones below it, and they've all moved down. We'll get used to it.
BTW, I just posted my first FAQ item. I feel special :D
I hope that VBF emails the link to it (wherever it is) in the welcome letter to all newbies. Let them know that it exists, and to look there first.
yeah why is .NET being treated inferior to VB6?:D if your logic is to grab more attention by putting it on top, then it should be Faqs, vb6, vb.net.... in that order :)
I think such ordering would be ideal.Quote:
Originally Posted by MrPolite
it'd be more LOGICAL:DQuote:
Originally Posted by dee-u
Good Lord, you all sound like my stodgy old grandmother complaining about her teacup being placed on that table to her left, instead of the table to her right, where it has always been placed. :)
I suspect that if you look before you click you will wind up in the section that you wish to be in.
With such resolution it shoud take entire screen ... :) It takes more than half of my screen with resolution 1024 x 768.Quote:
Originally Posted by dee-u
The FAQs should come first because we want people to look their for their answers.
VB.NET should really come second since it is the newest version and has two releases. Classic should follow. I won't change this at this time, but after the release of 2005, the order of these two may be changed.
Brad!
As to the ads....
I've already brought that issue up internally. The response was that we can move them to the right side of the page like http://forums.devx.com/ or leave them where they are. If you want them moved to the left side, then it will scrunch things up a bit.
Brad!
To be quite honest Brad, both Codeguru and DevX forums look horrible with the ads on the side. Personally, I'm fine with them at the top, I don't have any problem scrolling down, in fact I have never considered it a big deal at all since I joined.
(This is a big hint that I for one never want ads on the side :))
I prefer them at the top versus the side as well -- which is why they haven't been moved even though I was told that was the solution for the larger ads that were being displayed.Quote:
Originally Posted by penagate
As to the FAQs - I've now added a reference to them in the "welcome" message that goes out to new members. That was a good suggestion.
Brad!
Excellent, thanks Brad :)
Could we also add a link to the VB FAQ's in the forum usage FAQ page (http://www.vbforums.com/faq.php) as |2eM!x suggested? Or is that not possible/appropriate?
I prefer the Ad's at the top too, especially as code postings need lots of width.
As to the adds location ...
You can easily accommodate adds right next to the header and above "VB Wire News" section and even use the "news" section for some links but to have them as they are now I think is unacceptable by any standards.
brilliant:D your life will prosper by doing that;)Quote:
Originally Posted by brad jones
yeah and I think everyone agrees that moving those monstrous ads to the right would be blasphemous
I think the ads on top and having the FAQ first, then VB.NET and Classic VB are good choices. :thumb:
And I maintain the order doesn't matter if you are looking before clicking. ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by RobDog888
Oh but the order does matter:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Brad jones
the order matters hackQuote:
Originally Posted by Hack
otherwise your grandmother would have never complained about her tea cup being placed in the wrong place:D
Hey, respect the elders - VB.Classic goes FIRST, that's it! :p
If that was true then the BASIC Forum would be first instead of burried down where it currently is. ;)
Out with the old and in with the new...
Nah, it falls under different category - it ain't visual. ;)
Hmmmmm ... something strange: just a minute ago VB.Classic was first in the list and then was VB FAQ so I was going to say "wow ... they actually did change it ..." :) but after refreshing page it "came back to normal" :sick:
Anybody ???
I clicked already couple of times on the FAQ section, and I actually wanted to go to Classical VB.... But it's really not difficult to click on the back button on my browser and click on the right link.
So I really don't mind it there, and I actually think it's a good idea to put it there for the new people to see (Although right now it's not much in that forum).
Also, can anyone post in there ?
Because imagine how many people (especially new ppl) will post in the FAQ forum posts like "How do I do this ?"
I think (if possible), to restrict who can post in the FAQ to people who have at least over a few hundred posts (assuming that that person got the hang of how vbforums works by then). Especially because that is the first link in the list, a lot of people will be tempted to post there.
Also... (Not really related to FAQ section) Is it possible that when an Admin moves a thread, to move it without showing "Moved: blah blah" in the original forum ? I did not see many lately, but sometimes (especially in the CodeBank) there are like 5-10 threads all moved (off topic) in one page. It would look better if it simply moves without still showing in the original forum.
Anyone can post to the FAQ forum but every post is moderated. So your post will not show until it is approved or it is rejected by Si, a Super Mod, or Admin.
Limiting to who can post there by postcount is not too good since what if a expert programmer joined and wanted to post some of his stuff?
If a thread gets moved then it is beneficial to the thread starter to be able to know what happened so they can learn for the future. So posting in the to be moved thread is a positive thing. Perhaps something like "Moved to blah, blah ,blah forum" ?
The moderation is as posted by RobDog888, and is very useful as it enables us to verify items are valid for the FAQ, and of a suitable quality/format (with minor modifications if needed), and they can be added to the "index" threads appropriately.
If posts aren't valid for any reason, they can be moved to the appropriate forum, or deleted.
We've already had proof of postcount limits being a bad idea, somebody with only 1 post had a problem with getting one of the FAQ items to work (the ADO tutorial). They were able to post a reply to say where they had the problem, so hopefully we can improve the item for future visitors.
I know the quantity of threads in the FAQ is limited, but there are a few more on the way. There probably won't be hundreds of threads, as it is meant to be a place to find answers to Frequent questions, rather than every question that we can all think of.
FAQ shouldn't really be a discussion forum but rather "static" page(s) where all someone can "get" is the answers to some common question instead of say do a massive search. So, from my perspective it's a nice job someone's done but really is a waste. Sorry but how I see it.
FAQs shall never be part of any discussion (I think I said this twice) what so ever. If you need any help in setting this up I will be very glad to assist (just like most of us I guess). It should also have many different sections such VB.Classic, VB.Net, C# and so on and so forth ... Navigation to main page should be a single link - just User CP (or something) ...
You can also look at it this way RB, if someone posts saying "How do I get data from a web page?". You know this gets asked almost a couple of times a week. It is easier to say look at the FAQ #3, or such, instead of saying "Do a search" or "Google is your friend" which is not very friendly replies. ;)
What are you talking about, Rob? FAQ is a place where people get their answers to questions that are frequently asked. FAQ are usually have sections as I mentioned already, also each of those sections will need to have subsections like Files, Winsock, ADO and so on ... in the same way menus work ... But the way it is set up now is really ... well, I don't want to hurt nobody's feelings ... rediculous. Sorry.
BTW, here is a very nice example of how it could be done:
FAQ by Randy Birch .
edit: some typo fixed
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobDog888
Check this out.
Apart from slight variations in formatting (such as lines between the sections), that doesn't look particularly different to me RB :confused:
How would you recommend we change our VB FAQ section?
Well, if you can number each one, maybe even using a Section - Number, and put them into a textfile, then we could download that and refer people to FAQ W-3, or Dep-6 instead of having to look at the FAQ to get the link of the thread that would help. It'd be easy to say search the FAQ, but I didn't do it that way today.
I would do it the way FAQ are normally done:
- define top level sections (or categories if you will)
- define sub section (category) for top level
- only last in the hierarchy would have "question - answer"
I did provide link to one very typical layout so you may want to look at it.
Also, here are some others:
http://www.vbcity.com/forums/faq.asp - I think this one is one of the best!
http://www.windowsitpro.com/windowsnt20002003faq/
http://www.dvddemystified.com/dvdfaq.html
http://www.faqs.org/faqs/
http://www.w3.org/Security/Faq/www-security-faq.html
http://xml.silmaril.ie/
In any case as I've already emntioned, FAQ shall never be a discussion forum.
You've got your answer and if you're not satisfied with it then there is always a specific forum for open discussions.
You don't have to refer to any number - that's crazy. All that's needed for someone is to where should he/she look for and that could be Category/SubCategory - that's all.Quote:
Originally Posted by dglienna
Something like "we have this covered under ..." and if you want to provide link to that sub category it's upto you - we do that with forums all the time: "In case you don't know, there is a VB.Net Forum ..." or something.
Well, there was a deployment question today, and i had to find the post that i had read dealing with deployment. I couldn't remember if it was deployment or installation, so I had to find it and provide a link. I think it was more helpful then saying look for the deployment or installation thread in the FAQ section.
David, it's upto you to provide additional info but FAQ speaks for itself: it is for people to find answers to some very commonly asked questions. I don't get what so difficult about it? Almost every site you go that has more or less reliable on-line service has FAQ page: just like this one from Verizon. Nicely done and if you don't find what you're looking for then you would probably call to speak to someone personally, wouldn't you.
The same thing here: if you don't find answer then what you do next - you open a new thread ... As simple as that.
ps, I'm sure a lot of guys will have links to some categories in their signatures. ;)
Why on earth would you want to download it when its on the same website as your on? So you can post it back to other members as your own code? Seems that would be round in circles. Its the same logic as the way VBF is structured. You know how to link to other posts that contain a code solution when your helping someone? Its the same thing, just a new forum to group the most commonly asked questions.Quote:
Originally Posted by dglienna
David,
That could potentially be a useful idea (as you could say "see the FAQ, item 3.7"), but only if the page was in a "fixed" state. However, as it is still very new this is certainly not the case. As already stated by others, it isn't too much effort to find the relevant page (or even just link to the main FAQ page).
Rhinobull,
I agree entirely with your sentiment of not allowing additional threads simply asking for help on the items in the FAQ, these will not be shown in the FAQ section (they will usually be moved to the appropriate forums).
As already stated, the format of the previous link is almost the same as ours, and I haven't seen anything significant in the others that would be relevant.
We do (to a degree) have "top level sections" leading to "sub sections", each of which contains links to the actual question & answer. At this time (due to the limited quantity of posts) we do not have a separate list of "top level sections", but this will be added later if it seems useful.
Couple of suggestions one related to the FAQ and one not.
- Can we set the default cutoff age for threads in the FAQ to Beginning, so all threads are shown instead of just the last few?
- Re: the Moved links, I suggested a long time ago that they be auto-pruned after a certain period like 3 days or so, from the Codebank forum, but no-one replied :)
I'm sorry again _the_geek, but you have created nothing more than JUST ANOTHER FORUM. Instead you should simply have a link to a FAQ page where all you need are list of categories that would link you to subcategories and those last in the hierarchy would finally have Q and A. That's how it works but what we have at the moment could be called VB.Classic #2 or something but certainly not "VB FAQ".
Whould you call these a forum also? (reposting links)
http://www.vbcity.com/forums/faq.asp
http://www22.verizon.com/CustomerSupport/online_help/
When you attempt to create something new it's not a bad idea to look at what the others are doing (when imagination isn't getting anywhere, with all do respect of course) and then try not to replicate but at least follow and perhaps improve the idea.
But we just got another forum ...
The FAQ's aren't code snippets, they are answers that we could post again and again. If we kept referring people to the FAQ's, eventually they'd start looking there on their own (we would hope)
I just wanted to have a text document that I could scan, and refer to the exact title of the thread that I want to refer to. Doesn't have to even be a link.
If you number them as they are "approved" then the numbers would be static.
Uh Rhino, I don't quite get your drift. It's not a real forum in the sense that you can't actually post questions and have discussions. All you can post are frequently asked answers to questions and they have to be moderator approved before they even appear.
Look at this: http://www.codeguru.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=72
That's probably a safe bet as to how ours will eventually turn out, just VB oriented instead of C++. Remember, it's only been live for a day or two.
It doesn't really matter how old it is - I don't like design, layout or whatever you may call it but the point is it's NOT how FAQ pages are usually get done. Also, they could've just ask for an opinion ...
Current design if it is here to stay will end up having many many pages that would be very difficult to navigate - just like any other forum - so you would have to user search engine ... Instead, as I mentioned multiple times they could just create ONE page with list of categories (or sections), each category would link you to subcategories and so on - easy enough to navigate for practically anyone.
Hmm :DQuote:
Originally Posted by RhinoBull's signature
Anyway, basically this whole website is built on vBulletin forum software... I don't know anything about what goes on on the server behind the scenes but if it's like most forums, it will be pretty hard to add simple HTML pages. It is easier to create a forum and use the software options like post moderation. That's why I think it was done this way.
I agree it's probably not the most ideal format, but it's good that it's being done :)
Right then, a few things to go through!!
This is already the case, however I think this may be a bad thing, as I suspect that it is the cause of confusion for RhinoBull (and probably for others too).Quote:
Originally Posted by penagate
I think it may be better to have the cutoff very recent instead, so that only the sticky (Index) threads are displayed.
What do you all think?
Not really I'm afraid, as we are likely to have some items that should be placed further up the list than current items. We may well get to that stage later, but for now it only takes at most one click from the main FAQ's: Classic VB thread to find any items.Quote:
Originally Posted by dglienna
No we haven't, as it is fully moderated. It is an FAQ which people can submit to, but their posts must be allowed by us - so far only one has got through (by penagate). All threads are indexed in the sticky threads, with everything in categories.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhinobull
That is what we have done, and several of us decided that the format we have is the best for us, given the restrictions of the forum software. Extensions to the Index threads are likely to happen in the future, and I suspect that our format will get closer to the CodeGuru style, as linked to by penagate.Quote:
When you attempt to create something new it's not a bad idea to look at what the others are doing...
I reckon Codeguru's new FAQ structure, showing only the sub-forums, looks good. Still under construction I see, but it's better than showing all the threads I agree. And better than looking through stickys. When ours gets big enough maybe we should aim for that sort of structure, so sub forums for API FAQs, Database, Networking, etc. All the biggest topics.
I don't recall any discussions on the subject, though. Also, why do we have to mimic CodeGuru at all and not some best I don't know. And you did create another forum any way you look at it. But, whatever - I won't be using it anyway - it's just for those guys that will be struggle looking for somethig I feel sorry ...Quote:
Originally Posted by si_the_geek
Technically we did create another forum, it is however not intended to be used as one.
We are not aiming to mimic CodeGuru, however due to the limitations imposed by the forum software there are bound to be similarities, and as such CodeGuru is one of the places we have got ideas from.
Do you think that it would be more useful if we changed the cutoff period, so that only the sticky threads (like Classic VB FAQ) are displayed?
That's more like it but I still say that we don't even need stikys at all - create simple navigation page instead and I don't believe forum's software is limited to not to allow that simplicity. However, if it does limit then that would be the way to go, I'm afraid. Also, each stiky should be locked.
Thanks for you comments everyone, they are appreciated. :)
I will try to get just the stickies to be the only visible items. (which are effectively locked, but are accepting "hidden" comments for us).
I understand that we want newbies to go through the FAQ first, but I don't think it's the first place a person is going to go to. Currently, the Classic VB forum is the most popular, so I think the order should be
Classic VB
VB.NET
VB FAQ
because you may want the newbies to do something, but it's not necessary that they'll do that. Instead, they'll either perform a search, or directly post in Classic VB/VB.NET.
I see what you mean, but if the FAQ is further down then they are less likely to notice it. I think it is better to drop the hint heavily ;)
On CG their FAQ is at the bottom of the site. ;)