Conodolences and sympathies to all those involved in this appalling tragedy :cry:
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Conodolences and sympathies to all those involved in this appalling tragedy :cry:
71K and counting, according to CNN.
Death aside, it's interesting thinking of the mechanics involved, imagining the large amounts of water being displaced, and the rippling effect being carried all over the planet. Plates have moved 30 m.
Hard to fathom the extent of the disaster. Once disease starts hitting, the death toll is going to skyrocket well past the 70 or 80k already confirmed.
80k according to CNN.
I imagine the number is going to get even larger....when you think of how many places it hit. 80k is about 3 times the size of my town, but streched over that amount of coastline is a very thin line. those poor people :cry:
I can't handle the pictures of the little kids looking for dead or missing parents - they are going to forever damaged by this loss.
It is overwhelmingly sad.
116000 :cry:
I heard 150K on the early edition news. Don't know how accurate it was. It seemed kind of high, but, who really knows? Hard to imagine that they didn't have some kind of warning system. (I know that Hawaii does)
Could be over 400,000
http://www.bernama.com/bernama/v3/ne....php?id=111574
An interesting theory, haven't heard of any news of damage or casualties from Diego Garcia, the US base in the region. Rumour has it they knew of the quake and the tsunamis, but chose to use the time to protect themselves better, than passing on news to other nations.Quote:
Originally Posted by dglienna
Not to mention the diplomatic channels, news channels, satellites and what-not of modern communications which failed to communicate the news in time.
.
Leave it to HB to drag the US into this. :wave:
You forgot to add that Bush was the one who caused the earthquake with his latest military-satellite-equipped-with-lasers technology. :)
http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...ego-garcia.htm
My mom was only a few miles from the tornado's last year, and suffered no ill effects to the mobile home park that she lives in, while only 5 miles away, things got destroyed. I guess that it is just fate...
"A tropical footprint-shaped island"
???
"The UK doesn't charge the US rent" :rolleyes:
Everyone knew about the quake - it was huge and felt all over. Even a seismograph in Central Park, NYC registered the quake.Quote:
Originally Posted by honeybee
What is your point? Do you honestly think that anyone would not tell others of impending peril. How narrow minded and paranoid that is.
And how exactly do you think the "state-of-the-art" communication channels work on resort beaches? On poor and small island nations? 2 hours isn't a whole lot of time to react to something that hasn't happened before.
Yes exactly. The US actually did that so we could give 350 million in aid to make us look better.Quote:
Posted by honeybee
An interesting theory, haven't heard of any news of damage or casualties from Diego Garcia, the US base in the region. Rumour has it they knew of the quake and the tsunamis, but chose to use the time to protect themselves better, than passing on news to other nations.
Not to mention the diplomatic channels, news channels, satellites and what-not of modern communications which failed to communicate the news in time.
Don't know the full story but I heard that it was known that the Tsunami's were on there way and had someone have made one phone call, many deaths could have been avoided. Granted 20mins warning isn't much, but its better than nothing.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dilenger4
I don't know who's fault it was, probably lack of infstructure in the countries involved, I very much doubt, even though some of the ethics and morals of the US are somewhat misplaced that they would scarifice hundreds of thousands of live, just to look good :rolleyes:
I agree. I just made that comment too see who would agree. :lol:Quote:
Posted by visualAd
I very much doubt, even though some of the ethics and morals of the US are somewhat misplaced that they would scarifice hundreds of thousands of live, just to look good :rolleyes:
I mean no offence but the US is not the worlds weather forcaster. It's a tragedy that it happened but if countries know they are prone to get hit by a wave of that magnitude then i would think the proper research and steps would be taken in order to find out when a wave is on it's way.
If counrtries who were prone to this kind of disaster had the money and the resources to take the steps neccessary to minimise the loss of lives, I'm sure they would have done. I never said the US was blameless, the likes of them, the UK and other developed countries have a lot to answer for.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dilenger4
Why don't countries like Sri Lanka and Indonisia have the resources? Because it is in the long term interest of developed countries that they stay third world countries. Politics makes me sick :sick:
death toll around 150k + now i assume... on the 30th it was confirmed to be 112k...so might even be 200k by now :(
These are only "confirmed deaths", no telling how many haven't been found, and never will be.
The thing about third world countries is that action is taken only after something major has happened. So, now that the tsunami is over, they'll be setting up a warning system for tsunamis. Half heartedly because they either won't be expecting it to happen again or they'll be hoping it doesn't happen again. Meanwhile, something else happens. Like a volcanic eruption on land.
And so the saga continues...
Edit: http://www.cnn.com/2004/TECH/science...eut/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/asiapc....ap/index.htmlQuote:
Originally Posted by mendhak
"Asian officials conceded Monday that they failed to issue broad public warnings immediately after a massive undersea earthquake in Indonesia, which could have saved countless lives from the subsequent giant waves "
""The department had up to an hour to announce the emergency message and evacuate people but they failed to do so," Thammasarote was quoted as saying in The Bangkok Post newspaper. "It is true that an earthquake is unpredictable but a tsunami, which occurs after an earthquake, is predictable." "
I just don't get it, a huge earth quake occurs under the sea and no one could figure out it would cause a tsunami?
The sea floor itself shifted over 30 meters - 100 feet.Quote:
Originally Posted by OrdinaryGuy
That movement of landmass caused the tsunami.
Earthquakes do not cause tsunami's by default. Not all earthquakes are at the surface - some, most actually, occur deep inside the earth.
Tsunami's only damage land when the coast leading up to the land slowly gets more shallow. That's why some small island atolls took no damage - they rise from the sea floor rapidly, so the pushing tsunami wave does not crest.
When an earthquake happens under the ocean, it is generally safer to assume a tsumai is on its way rather than going to the beach for a look.
Well at least India doesn't have to deal with volcanic pyroclastic flows. But then again maybe they would be better off since there is usually fair warning as to when they are comming.
I heard a preposterous remark from a scientits at the seismic labs the other day:
"We knew about the impending tsunami but we had no way to warn people, there are no oficial channels to do that."
What a load of old bollocks. Have you not heard of the police, coastguard, government. Come on! You just sat back with a bowl of popcorn and waited for the fun. *******s.
Its always the case with waves you cant tell how far away they are and thus how big they are. The problem is you can see along way out to sea and by the time you realise the extent it doesnt leave much time. This was never expected and nobody is at fault. Deal with it :cry:
Apparently the UN offered the asian 3rd world countries (although India is not a 3rd world country) an early warning system that Japan, China and the US currently have. They offered this system at 10% of the normal price because the UN would pay the other 90%.Quote:
Originally Posted by visualAd
They refused it saying it was "Too expensive, and not vital". The asian governments have as much to blame as the other governments. The infrastructure to let everyone know was simply not there. Many of the Indonesian islands and outlying areas simply have no way of communicating each other over long distances as phones and radio communications simply were not in place.
Unfortunately this tsunami has hit the worst area it could have. Non-developed areas with little communcation and whose government were simply not prepared for it.
Think on this though, India, which has been hard hit, is refusing ALL international aid because they can "handle the situation". And they call the UN pig-headed?? :ehh:
Something like this hasnt happened in living memory why suddenly expect it know? The point is it is rare which often makes all of us too self assured to worry about it.
Its happened lets ensure that the damage is repaired as best as we can and that minimal people die from dissease etc. Then we can worry about paying money into an early warning system. :)
I agree Bodwad, I really do. I was just trying to point out that all the world's governments will simply not admit they were wrong and accept help.Quote:
Originally Posted by BodwadUK
I think the last time it happened was about 100 years ago and the wave then was nearly 100ft.....twice the size of this tsunami.
The greatest threat now is disease from the rotting bodies, because...understandably...people do not want them buried until they are identified.
I hope everyone observed the 3 minute silence just now.
Between you and me I don't know why they keep making the silences longer all the time. There must be a mathematical function defining the requisite number of minutes that you must remain mute after x deaths have occurred.
t = 1 + ((x/100000) log(d))
where d is a number I just thought up.
I havent really spoken to anyone properly today :afrog:
Apparently it is proportinal to the amount of deaths, as you suggest. Makes you wonder why we only have 1 minute silence on Rememberence day when millions died during the various wars :ehh:Quote:
Originally Posted by wossname
We cant be silent for that long :(
Indeed, and i think having it EVERY year has made it a chore rather than a special event to stop and think. Rememberence day should have been every other year as my generation certainly just don't seem that bothered about it. And I will admit, that I don't really buy a poppy any more because every year i get the feeling it is being rammed down my throat that I have to remember what happened.Quote:
Originally Posted by BodwadUK
Of course I remember what happened! Millions died because one idiot wanted more than he could have. Rememberance day has become a religious event, which is a shame as they always distort things to their own ends. :mad:
People buy poppies and things these days just to look as if they care. Its a 'fitting in' thing :)
I dont think we need to stop to remember its always there including this Tsunami. I dont think we can forget it :)
Yeah, I agree. If the world wars hadn't have happened, the world would be totally unrecogniseable when you compare it with the world we live in now.
Maybe it would be better, maybe worse we just can't tell. Certainly members of varying cultures and religions would have differing views about this.
So in a very real sense the fact that I am here at all is directly resultant of those events and inextricably linked to them. Its the Quantum Weather Butterfly/tornado in China analogy. We 'remember' the past because we exist.
Might sound a bit anthropic but thats just the way things are.
There are almost no remaining survivors of WW1, last year there were about 10 at the cenotaph, all over 100 years old. Its increasingly unlikely that there will be any this year alive or well enough to attend. Might sound mercenary, but you don't see us commemorating Trafalgar or the Boer war. Let it lie.
Nobody gets killed (comparatively in terms of numbers) in wars these days. In WW2 millions of men died. These days even 1 or 2 soldiers being killed by the enemy hits the news headlines, 60 years ago nobody would have batted an eyelid on hearing that.
Did you see the size if the Tsunami that just hit? Very small, maybe 30' high tops. Ive surfed bigger waves on the north shore. Obviously the damage to life and property was caused by mutiple waves and flooding and not the impact ofthe wave itself unless you were standing right on the beach or somewhere in close proximity.
I read a while ago that the height of a Tsunami produced by shifts in land mass is directly proportional to the amount the land mass has shifted. So what you get is what they call a "small Tsunami"
Do a google search "alaska and Lituya Bay Tsunami" or "Lituya Bay Tsunami". What happened there is pretty mind boggling. Im not sure on the exact height of that Tsunami. Most articles ive read say 1700' to 1800'. That's insane. :eek2:
Its not really the height its the quantity and speed of the water :(
Add to that the fact that water is in fact very heavy and you have a very dangerous situation
I can confirm this actually happened because I studied Geology at higher education level but it was 100 feet not 1700. The 1700 feet refers to the height of the SPLASH not the wave. This tsunami was different to the Asian one however because it was caused by a landslide falling into the water. This created much bigger waves because the disturbance occurred on the surface of the water. Normal tsunami's occur from an earthquake from UNDER the sea so the waves will never be as large.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dilenger4
The reason the asian tsunami was so bad is because it hit a 3rd world country consisting of small islands. If this had hit China, US, Japan it would not been nearly as bad because most of their buildings on the beach are brick, not wood and have emergency protocols in place for such eventualities
The reason the Alaskan tusnami only killed two people was because:
a) it was in a lagoon so it only had one direction to go
b) the area was forest mountains so the wave was broken up pretty rapidly
Most experts have agreed that if this wave had hit Asia the devastation would have been worse because the Asian Tsunami was 50 feet high. It caused more damage because it hit countries that were not prepared for it.
:(
I wonder how many criminals chose this disaster as a convenient way of 'disappearing'. Or how many murders were comitted during the melee? Perfect opportunity to settle some old scores eh?
Whack a few of your enemies and dump them in the sea when nobody's looking. Who's going to notice a few bulletholes or stab wounds among all the head wounds and decapitations?
I tried but I hit your EX. The shipping was expensive too :afrog:
They suspect a lot of kids have been kidnapped for slavery which is still common in AsiaQuote:
Originally Posted by wossname
Many scams started going around just hours after the incident. One company is under investigation here in the UK for not clearly marking that they arent a charity and making a leaflet that looks like they are :)
Yeah i kinda thought that. I mean 1700 would be a little unreal. Still though 100'Quote:
Posted by Valleysboy1978
The 1700 feet refers to the height of the SPLASH not the wave.
is pretty big.
Terrifing I do agree. (EDIT: I DISAGREED..oops)
The poor people to have gone through that -- loosing their houses, families, lives...now they live with famine, disease, and nothing to help themselves.
Two things have sprouted from this back at home. Corrupt charities and real charities and the either the forced guilt or the true empathy pushes us to donate money.
You know alot of people disagree fully with the fact Canada contributes so much to foreign aid -- we give a ton of our small budget to foreign aid. Alot of people disagree with helping countries period financially like most all the civilized nations do.
Well I say, in a situation like this its good the world is so quick to want to help -- I'm glad so much money has poured out and I'm apualed that some people have tried to collect illegal and keep the money. Personally I can't see how we didn't warn them and how this stuff should be costing money -- why is the help going soooo slow.
On the other hand -- distaters on a smaller scale happen everday and in most of those cases we should not feel the need to lend a hand. We do have our problems to -- although Canada poverty line is $10,000...thats the LEAST you can make a year even on welfare; our problems may not exactly be so bad.
In the andaman & nicobar islands, there were certain tribes who have been been wiped out from the earth. there were only a few hundred people of their kind and none have survived. :mike:
I live in New Delhi and these days I see all kind of people esp. Politicians (small and bidding types) asking for aid material to send. The have small shabby counters and all they do is sit around and chat. Makes me sick. :sick:
I agree, but this is because small-scale disasters can usuall be dealt with by the resident government and/or the UN. However this disaster has probably destroyed the resident governments and the collective governments simply do not have the funds or services in place to recover from this. That is why people are helping, because we know they need our help.Quote:
Originally Posted by Halsafar
:thumb:
Common in the US, too. I read a report about a decade ago (Time magazine) that named Miami as being one of the largest importer of girls in the world. Heard another report about that in the last year. Slavery is alive and well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Valleysboy1978
Apparently this is the largest documented natural distaster.
Doesn't surprise me :(Quote:
Originally Posted by Halsafar