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It seems that the Beta of Longhorn has the beta of the next framework. You can compile and run stuff if you use notepad to write the source. There is an MSDN TV video: http://msdn.microsoft.com/msdntv/epi...B/manifest.xml that if you follow along you can run all the code from. In fact I'm posting this from within Longhorn.
Thanks for the link. By the way have you noticed the problem in front page of your site? The div that holdes Edneeis and headlines div go way out of screen and need horizontal scroll. And i think that's because you have set the left side div width to fixed 200 pixel and the other ones to 95%. So the logo div will only fit to a 4000 pixel wide screen.
That ain't no beta, that's ALPHA!
Oh man does that build suck right now. I'll wait until Longhorn reaches beta before I play around with it and the framework.
Is there anything good in the next framework? I know people have been waiting for better printing abilities and multimedia type functions.
hehe yeah I noticed that too while I was searching google for something.. I came up upon the unfinished documentation of the new framework:D
waah I didnt know all about those new stuff they;re adding. It seems a bit hard to keep up with the framework releases every year though :(
btw does cander have any relations with that Chris Anderson in the video?:D
Yes I noticed this but don't know how to fix it. The menu is a set 200px and is in a webcontrol (ascx) so I want the normal page to fill the rest. Any ideas?Quote:
Originally posted by Lunatic3
Thanks for the link. By the way have you noticed the problem in front page of your site? The dive that holdes Edneeis and headlines div go way out of screen and need horizontal scroll. And i think that's because you have set the left side div width to fixed 200 pixel and the other ones to 95%. So the logo div will only fit to a 4000 pixel wide screen.
For a very early build I thought it wasn't all that bad. There is a ton of good things in the next framework, generics alone make me look forward to it. Right now I'm just playing with XAML and seeing what it can do.Quote:
Originally posted by kasracer
That ain't no beta, that's ALPHA!
Oh man does that build suck right now. I'll wait until Longhorn reaches beta before I play around with it and the framework.
Is there anything good in the next framework? I know people have been waiting for better printing abilities and multimedia type functions.
You can fix it by wrapping the whole page in a table.Quote:
Originally posted by Edneeis
Yes I noticed this but don't know how to fix it. The menu is a set 200px and is in a webcontrol (ascx) so I want the normal page to fill the rest. Any ideas?
Thanks Lunatic3 I forget I also had a header control that was using a DIV too so I had to nest another table in for the right column but I got it working.
hey but those yummy ROTATE features and all those nice looking controls (eeh what was it, avalanch?)... they're not gonno be till the release of longhorn, right?Quote:
Originally posted by Edneeis
For a very early build I thought it wasn't all that bad. There is a ton of good things in the next framework, generics alone make me look forward to it. Right now I'm just playing with XAML and seeing what it can do.
MSAvalon is the namespace that I think will be replaced by System in the final version.Quote:
Originally posted by MrPolite
(eeh what was it, avalanch?)...
uuh I didnt watch the whole thing and I'm not updated as you guys, as I'm not a developer and I dont even work... but is avalon supposed to replace windows forms?Quote:
Originally posted by Lunatic3
MSAvalon is the namespace that I think will be replaced by System in the final version.
oh and what was the deal with XAML? what's the use of it ? that guy seemed to be using that instead of writing code with C#:confused:
+ Edneeis, what do you use to compile? I have longhorn too hehe
Avalon is a type of shell
XAML is a way of using XML to dynamically create windows forms
All of the cool features won't be in place until the beta, the alpha barely has half a buttplug currently
umm yeah but was that the alpha of the next framework which will be shipped with whidbey? or it's the framework that will be shipped with longhorn? (will vs2004 even be released with the release of a new framework ?:confused: )Quote:
Originally posted by kasracer
Avalon is a type of shell
XAML is a way of using XML to dynamically create windows forms
All of the cool features won't be in place until the beta, the alpha barely has half a buttplug currently
whidbey will have the full version of 1.2. It would be insanely stupid to ship a half-finished product with developer tools
Longhorn will probably end up having 1.3 version of the framework, since it'll come out with the successor to Whidbey
man, if it's this way then, it seems like the next framework will have a lot of new stuff. Avalon and generics and what else? indigo?
No 1.2 may or may not have that.Quote:
Originally posted by MrPolite
man, if it's this way then, it seems like the next framework will have a lot of new stuff. Avalon and generics and what else? indigo?
Since Longhorn won't be out until 2005-2006 and 1.2 comes out in 2004, I was believe Microsoft is shipping Longhorn with 1.3 or possibly a 1.4?
It's hard to keep up with the yearly release of new version of the .NET Framework.
Just look a VS.NET...
2002 uses v1.0 only
2003 uses v1.1 only
2004 will problably use v1.2 only
and so on...
I don't want to have to buy a new version or upgrade of VS.NET every year. :mad: They should make VS.NET use the latest version that you have installed, or make it so you can decide which installed version will compile your apps.
I guess I'll just have check out Sharp Develop and other open source .NET development IDE's. Does anyone know of a good .NET development IDE for Linux?
umm well if you are a serious developer then $30 upgrade fee isnt so much, granted that you get to use the latest framework with the best IDE (I know it gets on your nerves to pay that upgrade fee each year :D )Quote:
Originally posted by crpietschmann
It's hard to keep up with the yearly release of new version of the .NET Framework.
Just look a VS.NET...
2002 uses v1.0 only
2003 uses v1.1 only
2004 will problably use v1.2 only
and so on...
I don't want to have to buy a new version or upgrade of VS.NET every year. :mad: They should make VS.NET use the latest version that you have installed, or make it so you can decide which installed version will compile your apps.
I guess I'll just have check out Sharp Develop and other open source .NET development IDE's. Does anyone know of a good .NET development IDE for Linux?
Dude, you can't be serious......Quote:
Originally posted by crpietschmann
Does anyone know of a good .NET development IDE for Linux?
The mono .NET compiler is sooo far behind, and you want a friggin IDE for Linux?
The mono compiler for .NET is supposed to be at version 1.0 in around 2004, Microsoft will be at 1.2 and there won't be any IDEs for it.
This is the price you pay for using propritary programming methods. Either remaind a Microsoft ***** or switch to something else.
is anyone going to use mono for serious programs? it's gonno be outdated and buggy:rolleyes:Quote:
Originally posted by kasracer
Dude, you can't be serious......
The mono .NET compiler is sooo far behind, and you want a friggin IDE for Linux?
The mono compiler for .NET is supposed to be at version 1.0 in around 2004, Microsoft will be at 1.2 and there won't be any IDEs for it.
This is the price you pay for using propritary programming methods. Either remaind a Microsoft ***** or switch to something else.
Don't forget about making everyone who uses your programs upgrading to the next version of the .NET framework, which will be another 25MB+ download for them.Quote:
Originally posted by MrPolite
umm well if you are a serious developer then $30 upgrade fee isnt so much, granted that you get to use the latest framework with the best IDE (I know it gets on your nerves to pay that upgrade fee each year :D )
Each year the users will have to download an update if you update. If you are using 1.2 to develop and your users are using 1.0 or 1.1 still and your application still works on their systems, then you wasted some money since you arn't using any new features.
I don't like the whole update each year thing, Microsoft could have handled it sooo much better.
If they are a linux developer or Windows developer and they want to use the pripritary framework, why not?Quote:
Originally posted by MrPolite
is anyone going to use mono for serious programs? it's gonno be outdated and buggy:rolleyes:
It won't be anymore buggy than the Microsoft framework is, but since it's free, they have very very limited resources and won't ever be up to where Microsoft is.
umm well, I guess that's what fast internet connections are good for :DQuote:
Originally posted by kasracer
Don't forget about making everyone who uses your programs upgrading to the next version of the .NET framework, which will be another 25MB+ download for them.
Each year the users will have to download an update if you update. If you are using 1.2 to develop and your users are using 1.0 or 1.1 still and your application still works on their systems, then you wasted some money since you arn't using any new features.
I don't like the whole update each year thing, Microsoft could have handled it sooo much better.
but who uses .NET? I dont think there will ever be famous products written in .NET (like photoshop, and such)
Yeah no highly commercial software will be in .NET..... well except WINDOWS!Quote:
Originally posted by MrPolite
umm well, I guess that's what fast internet connections are good for :D
but who uses .NET? I dont think there will ever be famous products written in .NET (like photoshop, and such)
All software and game companies want/need the highest amount of performance possible, they won't go to .NET because of that. However, Microsoft is writting Longhorn entirely out of managed code.
Go figure
That's not so easy to decide about. It's not only a matter of software and performance. It deals with lots of political and economical matters that we are not aware of. So I won't be shocked if someday Adobe turns to .NET, if not already on their way.Quote:
Originally posted by MrPolite
but who uses .NET? I dont think there will ever be famous products written in .NET (like photoshop, and such)
No Adobe will NEVER turn to .NET unless Microsoft makes it platform-independant.Quote:
Originally posted by Lunatic3
That's not so easy to decide about. It's not only a matter of software and performance. It deals with lots of political and economical matters that we are not aware of. So I won't be shocked if someday Adobe turns to .NET, if not already on their way.
Don't forget Adobe makes ALOT of money selling software on Apple computers, as well as Windows.
They currently use C++ and qt, which is cross-platform capable so it is insanely simple to port their software from Windows to Mac and vice versa, they just re-compile and done. Of course there are a few optimizations here and there, but that is basically what they have to do.
I highly doubt they would change to something that could cause their programs, which absolutely thrive on highly optimized code, to run less efficient as compiled down native code. Besides, they have ALOT of code and libraries in-house, they really have no use for the framework.
I never use that 'NEVER' to talk about something that is out of my knowledge scope. Again I have to emphasize on the fact that we don't know what goes on the minds of people ruling and managing those big corporations and it's not a simple matter of software development. I am not going to argue about it anymore. :wave:Quote:
Originally posted by kasracer
No Adobe will NEVER turn to .NET unless Microsoft makes it platform-independant.
You probably won't see too many commercial apps being written in .net (yet anyway), but if you want to start looking where .Net is taking off, it is the web.
http://www.match.com/
http://www.century21.com/
http://www.microsoft.com/ (obviously...lol)
Now, a question...What is a mspx page?
http://www.microsoft.com/WindowsServ...et/dotnet.mspx
I think I have missed something.
Just some random extension Microsoft decided to use.Quote:
Originally posted by hellswraith
You probably won't see too many commercial apps being written in .net (yet anyway), but if you want to start looking where .Net is taking off, it is the web.
http://www.match.com/
http://www.century21.com/
http://www.microsoft.com/ (obviously...lol)
Now, a question...What is a mspx page?
http://www.microsoft.com/WindowsServ...et/dotnet.mspx
I think I have missed something.
Ebay uses .dll for alot of things, but it never references an actual DLL
You use csc.exe the commandline compiler or msbuild (which is easier). Just follow along with what they do in the video you can run everything they do. They are using the same build of Longhorn as you notice in the command line it says 4051. The only thing I had to do was add the path to the framework to the default windows path. Just run this at a command prompt: path $PATH$;C:\Windows\Microsoft.NET\Framework\v1.2.4030Quote:
Originally posted by MrPolite
uuh I didnt watch the whole thing and I'm not updated as you guys, as I'm not a developer and I dont even work... but is avalon supposed to replace windows forms?
oh and what was the deal with XAML? what's the use of it ? that guy seemed to be using that instead of writing code with C#:confused:
+ Edneeis, what do you use to compile? I have longhorn too hehe
Also when you make the cs, proj, and xaml files just go to the directory in the comand prompt and just run msbuild. That will compile the project and stick it in the \bin\release folder.
Yes rotate and all of the features they show work in that version, build 4051.
For more info on the commands and what not that are available for avalon go to: http://longhorn.msdn.microsoft.com
I disagree, I think a lot/most of business applications will move to managed code. Of course somethings aren't that well suited for managed code like games, but that may change later on near the time Longhorn comes out. Even avalon can directly access DirectX so I'm sure there will be massive amounts of streamlining. I know that you are always talking **** on .NET and thats fine we all have to have our opinions but I think you are just going against the grain on this one.Quote:
Originally posted by kasracer
Yeah no highly commercial software will be in .NET..... well except WINDOWS!
All software and game companies want/need the highest amount of performance possible, they won't go to .NET because of that. However, Microsoft is writting Longhorn entirely out of managed code.
Go figure
As for the framework changing every year, whats the big deal. The first app you install that uses the new framework will install it for you and then you are set for the year. Thats not so hard, especially as more and more software is written in managed code. MS is really commiting to managed code and I'm sure future versions of Office will run on it which means most people will have it from their Office install.
waah windows?what part of longhorn is written in .net ?:confused:Quote:
Originally posted by kasracer
Yeah no highly commercial software will be in .NET..... well except WINDOWS!
All software and game companies want/need the highest amount of performance possible, they won't go to .NET because of that. However, Microsoft is writting Longhorn entirely out of managed code.
Go figure
edneeis I asked this in the same thread, but oh well even though I got the answer, let me ask again:D
will all those things that they showed in the video (avalon in particular :D ) be in the next version of vs.net?
I always talk **** because the framework could of been sooo much better, but it looks like Microsoft wants to dominate the market in programming as well.Quote:
Originally posted by Edneeis
I know that you are always talking **** on .NET and thats fine we all have to have our opinions but I think you are just going against the grain on this one.
Requring the user to download another update that will be around 25MB. Yeah the 56k users will just LOVE doing that every year.Quote:
Originally posted by Edneeis
As for the framework changing every year, whats the big deal. The first app you install that uses the new framework will install it for you and then you are set for the year. Thats not so hard, especially as more and more software is written in managed code.
Honestly, to install something, are you going to sit on 56k and download a framework, and THEN the program, or are you going to find another program that does the samething without the framework? That's just a no-brainer. The .NET framework may work well in companies, but it'll never fly with consumers especially if it changes every year.
They already announced future versions of their software and OSes will include the framework, but you will STILL need to update the framework online, unless you play to buy Office each yearQuote:
Originally posted by Edneeis
MS is really commiting to managed code and I'm sure future versions of Office will run on it which means most people will have it from their Office install.
Apparently, they are trying to write EVERYTHING in .NET for longhorn.Quote:
Originally posted by MrPolite
waah windows?what part of longhorn is written in .net ?:confused:
Explorer is almost finished in the ALPHA and that is in .NET. I'll find the article if you want
WELL! you only have to update if your program is on the net.... if you sell your app on a CD then you can just have the framework on the CD... plus, umm who cares about the 56k modem owners:DQuote:
Originally posted by kasracer
I always talk **** because the framework could of been sooo much better, but it looks like Microsoft wants to dominate the market in programming as well.
Requring the user to download another update that will be around 25MB. Yeah the 56k users will just LOVE doing that every year.
Honestly, to install something, are you going to sit on 56k and download a framework, and THEN the program, or are you going to find another program that does the samething without the framework? That's just a no-brainer. The .NET framework may work well in companies, but it'll never fly with consumers especially if it changes every year.
They already announced future versions of their software and OSes will include the framework, but you will STILL need to update the framework online, unless you play to buy Office each year
sure i'd be interested to read it. But the core of the operating system itslef isnt written with .net ha?! (the kernel? ) you mean they're just writing the programs like explorer with .net? what the heck is the point of that? seems like a performance lossQuote:
Originally posted by kasracer
Apparently, they are trying to write EVERYTHING in .NET for longhorn.
Explorer is almost finished in the ALPHA and that is in .NET. I'll find the article if you want
excuse my laziness but I dont want to boot into longhorn wiht my slow computer. one more question that Edneeis probably knows...
they said they have a built-in compiler in longhorn. did they mean the compiler that comes with the framework itself? or were they talking about that msbulid.exe thingie?
Longhorn news: http://www.industrybrains.com/Search...forms&Layout=1
About WinFS: http://msdn.microsoft.com/Longhorn/d...ic_storage.asp
Shows how the OS will be laid out. Looks like the Framework will run everything but OS specific functions (thank god, though I doubt it would be possible to replace those anyway)
Of course all of this is at: http://msdn.microsoft.com/longhorn/
I think they mean msbuild but I'm not sure. Both are in Longhorn.Quote:
Originally posted by MrPolite
excuse my laziness but I dont want to boot into longhorn wiht my slow computer. one more question that Edneeis probably knows...
they said they have a built-in compiler in longhorn. did they mean the compiler that comes with the framework itself? or were they talking about that msbulid.exe thingie?
Here is most of the sample code from the video and the compiled exe. There is also a batch file to add the needed path for doing things from the video and instructions to use msbuild to build the project on your own machine.
Avalon will be in he 2006 release :( (vs.net yukon?) aaaaah
I don't think Avalon will necessarily be in VS Avalon is a feature of the Longhorn OS not really a development tool.
OMG I'm dumb.... I just realized that XAML can be used on teh web:eek: is that MS's purpose in creating XAML? they want the users to be able to run apps from teh web like that or what?
What do you mean? In Longhorn MS kind of blurs the line between web and win. So the standard form appears like a web page or can have 'flow' layout like a web page. Basically they are making it so it wont matter if you run something local or remote.
hehehehe I didnt really realize that:D I heard about MS wanting to make a web app and a regular app to be the same back then when they introduced XML:D seems like very exciting!Quote:
Originally posted by Edneeis
What do you mean? In Longhorn MS kind of blurs the line between web and win. So the standard form appears like a web page or can have 'flow' layout like a web page. Basically they are making it so it wont matter if you run something local or remote.
I'm reading the chapter one of that book that was given in PDC2003 (the online version. I didnt go to PDC obviously:) ) and it keeps saying that longhorn lets you do this and that with the online apps.... so I'm wondering, does longhorn (or internet explorer) run the webapplications totally differently? I mean it's not gonno be like a typical ASP.NET app where the results are simply displayed as a HTML page?
and also does that mean that these apps wont run on any other machine that isnt running longhorn?
stupid questions ofcourse, but some answers would help:bigyello:
I'm not sure I didn't go to PDC either. Maybe it is all related to Indigo.