http://www.sky.com/skynews/article/0...275844,00.html
Agreed - it make the war experts statements of "this could be a war without civilan loss" absolutely ridiculous.
And there's me thinking this was a war against Saddam and terrorism. Looked pretty terrifying to me....
I hope this is worth it :(
We'll never know :(
Your an idiot. The US doesn't have control over how a missile will ultimately react, and, in reality, the Iraqi's brought this on themselves by burning the oil and such. (I'm assuming this is what they mean by poor weather.)
20 people dead is hardly worth cracking a hissy fit over, its war gentlemen. Some people seem to be forgetting this.
War you say.
Cause GWB calls is War.
GWB is a terrorist himself and is using the us citizens to reach his goal.
He calls it WAR and therefore can bomb anything he wants.
I'll hope his day will come as well, and you'll open your eyes.
Its a war the americans started to "help" and "save" the Iraqi people.
They would have been better off left alone!
Define the word "war" for me Swatty. :rolleyes:
lol. Better off? I doubt that. Why is it that other countries have been "flooding" (thank Mr howard for that term ;)) by Iraqi refugees? Why is it that people in the southern Iraqi cities are fighting against Iraqi soldiers? Cause there country has sucked ever since Saddam came into power. Since they aren't willing/able to save themselves, it is only the right thing to do but to help them. :)Quote:
Originally posted by plenderj
Its a war the americans started to "help" and "save" the Iraqi people.
They would have been better off left alone!
If the US can't control their own missles they shouldn't be firing any.Quote:
Originally posted by Pc_Madness
The US doesn't have control over how a missile will ultimately react
There aren't floods of Iraqi refugees.Quote:
Originally posted by Pc_Madness
lol. Better off? I doubt that. Why is it that other countries have been "flooding" (thank Mr howard for that term ;)) by Iraqi refugees? Why is it that people in the southern Iraqi cities are fighting against Iraqi soldiers? Cause there country has sucked ever since Saddam came into power. Since they aren't willing/able to save themselves, it is only the right thing to do but to help them. :)
Iraqis are leaving other countries and going back to Iraq to fight the Americans.
There were reports there might have been an uprising in Basra.
But no-one knows how big it was.
It could have been a handful of people for all we know.
They are being punished because they can't overthrow Saddam.
And where was the US last time they said they'd help the people overthrow Saddam ?
Odd and sudden change of heart.
Quote:
Originally posted by plenderj
If the US can't control their own missles they shouldn't be firing any.
Would you prefer that they just bomb the hell out of all the cities with dumb bombs like the allies did during WW2? If the Iraqis didn't keep soldiers in the cities in the first place, then there wouldn't need to be a bombing of cities. ;)
Might want to do a search on the Tampa crisis, Mr Plenderj, it should lead onto the more serious problem that is the flooding of illegal immgrants to western nations, notably Australia. :)Quote:
Originally posted by plenderj
There aren't floods of Iraqi refugees.
Iraqis are leaving other countries and going back to Iraq to fight the Americans.
Large proportations of the people were from Iraq and Afganistan. :)
Battle between two or more states.Quote:
Originally posted by Pc_Madness
Define the word "war" for me Swatty. :rolleyes:
He uses his presidenthood to use the word war , chief of state.
If your so smart lets see you make a better one.... We have the most acurate in the world...Quote:
Originally posted by plenderj
If the US can't control their own missles they shouldn't be firing any.
My opinion is that you shouldn't be firing any at all.Quote:
Originally posted by Maven
If your so smart lets see you make a better one.... We have the most acurate in the world...
And clearly, 12 years of that has done an excellent job. ;)Quote:
Originally posted by plenderj
My opinion is that you shouldn't be firing any at all.
1) I would prefer you don't bomb anything at all.Quote:
Originally posted by Pc_Madness
Would you prefer that they just bomb the hell out of all the cities with dumb bombs like the allies did during WW2? If the Iraqis didn't keep soldiers in the cities in the first place, then there wouldn't need to be a bombing of cities. ;)
Might want to do a search on the Tampa crisis, Mr Plenderj, it should lead onto the more serious problem that is the flooding of illegal immgrants to western nations, notably Australia. :)
Large proportations of the people were from Iraq and Afganistan. :)
2) Most of the people were from Afghanistan. I don't even think there were any Iraqis there.
The allmighty said.Quote:
Originally posted by Maven
If your so smart lets see you make a better one.... We have the most acurate in the world...
Time you learn there are others on earth too.
Don't think you know it all and can do whatever you like.
Go be a human sheild for one of Saddams rape chambers if you feel the need to help out.Quote:
Originally posted by plenderj
My opinion is that you shouldn't be firing any at all.
I wonder if GWB wasn't elected .:confused:Quote:
Originally posted by Pc_Madness
And clearly, 12 years of that has done an excellent job. ;)
No-one's lifted a finger in 12 years to make him prove he doesn't have any illegal weapons.Quote:
Originally posted by Pc_Madness
And clearly, 12 years of that has done an excellent job. ;)
And what about Russia ?
No-one has found any illegal chemical weapons in Iraq yet, but russia actually used chemical weapons not too long ago.
The US doesn't seem to care about that.
Rape chambers ? What ?Quote:
Originally posted by Maven
Go be a human sheild for one of Saddams rape chambers if you feel the need to help out.
http://www.google.ie/search?q=saddam...-8&hl=en&meta=
Pull up the figures on population detention origins, I'm sure australia has it somewhere.Quote:
Originally posted by plenderj
1) I would prefer you don't bomb anything at all.
2) Most of the people were from Afghanistan. I don't even think there were any Iraqis there.
And if your feeling really clever, and have an excellent search engine, you could do a search to find the total % of iraq orgin in western nations.
Burning oil wells could hardly be called bad weather. Of course if GWB has coined a new term called "Bad Weather" to represent it, I have no idea. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally posted by Pc_Madness
Your an idiot. The US doesn't have control over how a missile will ultimately react, and, in reality, the Iraqi's brought this on themselves by burning the oil and such. (I'm assuming this is what they mean by poor weather.)
20 people dead is hardly worth cracking a hissy fit over, its war gentlemen. Some people seem to be forgetting this.
From what I know, the oil wells in the Southern Iraq have been set on fire, and the air raids were taking place on Baghdad. Consult a map if you are unsure and you will find out yourself how ridiculous it is to blame the misbehaving missiles on the burning oil wells.
Yeah, 20 dead civilians is nothing to you, because you lost about 3000 didn't you? So you will start to worry about civilian deaths only after the toll reaches 3000, because then the old score will have been settled :rolleyes:
So much for the technical accuracy of the US weapons. :rolleyes:
.
Don't quote that ****, if we wanted fairy tales, we'd get a disney book. :mad:Quote:
Originally posted by swatty
The allmighty said.
Time you learn there are others on earth too.
Don't think you know it all and can do whatever you like.
Fairy tales ?Quote:
Originally posted by Pc_Madness
Don't quote that ****, if we wanted fairy tales, we'd get a disney book. :mad:
Like Saddam being a threat to the rest of the world ?
What an informed comment :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally posted by Maven
Go be a human sheild for one of Saddams rape chambers if you feel the need to help out.
.
The Iraqis involved in the Tampa crisis came from Indonesia.Quote:
Originally posted by Pc_Madness
Pull up the figures on population detention origins, I'm sure australia has it somewhere.
What ?Quote:
Originally posted by Pc_Madness
And if your feeling really clever, and have an excellent search engine, you could do a search to find the total % of iraq orgin in western nations.
Are you saying smoke and dust storms wouldn't affect a piece of machiney?Quote:
Originally posted by honeybee
Burning oil wells could hardly be called bad weather. Of course if GWB has coined a new term called "Bad Weather" to represent it, I have no idea. :rolleyes:
From what I know, the oil wells in the Southern Iraq have been set on fire, and the air raids were taking place on Baghdad. Consult a map if you are unsure and you will find out yourself how ridiculous it is to blame the misbehaving missiles on the burning oil wells.
Yeah, 20 dead civilians is nothing to you, because you lost about 3000 didn't you? So you will start to worry about civilian deaths only after the toll reaches 3000, because then the old score will have been settled :rolleyes:
So much for the technical accuracy of the US weapons. :rolleyes:
.
Clearly, you are misinformed. The Iraqi's have dug trenches around Baghad, filled them with oil, and set them alight to hide Baghad from bombers. Whether thats the cause of the missile going astray, no-one can say. Maybe the Iraqi's used one of there jammers on it?
20 people dead is nothing. 1 man killed 37 people in a shooting spree, and I won't go into detail of how he killed them. Only 20 people killed in a war is excellent. What were the figures from WW2? Vietnam? Korea? Gulf War 1? The US is doing the best it can to control civilian deaths, and for that I think it should be congratulated.
Jamie
I don't believe in god, and I would have to doubt that anyone should over the last few years of the amount of blood spilt.
Swatty
Even if Mr Bush wasn't elected properly, Mr Gore would have done something similar, if of course, there was anything wrong with the vote, which I doubt. The right man is in office, I believe. :)
An american disney book that is.:oQuote:
Originally posted by Pc_Madness
Don't quote that ****, if we wanted fairy tales, we'd get a disney book. :mad:
God has nothing to do with this. These are actions by people on other people.Quote:
Originally posted by Pc_Madness
Jamie
I don't believe in god, and I would have to doubt that anyone should over the last few years of the amount of blood spilt.
We should realize by now that war isn't the answer.
Well done. ;) The people work there way done through the asian countries, where policing of such matters is also zero, and use Indo as a launching point into australia.Quote:
Originally posted by plenderj
The Iraqis involved in the Tampa crisis came from Indonesia.
What ?
Do a search for the % of US population to see how many of them originated from Iraq. Will give you a picture on how many people are trying to run away from the place. ;)
1) Irrespective of what country they came through, its hardly proof of why they left.Quote:
Originally posted by Pc_Madness
Well done. ;) The people work there way done through the asian countries, where policing of such matters is also zero, and use Indo as a launching point into australia.
Do a search for the % of US population to see how many of them originated from Iraq. Will give you a picture on how many people are trying to run away from the place. ;)
2) So? People emmigrate from countries all the time.
People emmigrated from Ireland to the UK and US because this country was so poor in the past.
Does that mean we should be bombed just because we had mass emmigrations ?
Did you even read Swatty's post? It made reference to god. Tell him that it has nothing to do with it ;)Quote:
Originally posted by plenderj
God has nothing to do with this. These are actions by people on other people.
We should realize by now that war isn't the answer.
I don't think you can say what another one would do.Quote:
Originally posted by Pc_Madness
Swatty
Even if Mr Bush wasn't elected properly, Mr Gore would have done something similar, if of course, there was anything wrong with the vote, which I doubt. The right man is in office, I believe. :)
Wrong votes or not, my point is GWB wants to settle things which his father couldn't.
1) You quoted me, and then replied re; god.Quote:
Originally posted by Pc_Madness
Did you even read Swatty's post? It made reference to god. Tell him that it has nothing to do with it ;)
2) I don't see any reference to god by swatty ?
Then you didn't read it properly.Quote:
Originally posted by Pc_Madness
Did you even read Swatty's post? It made reference to god. Tell him that it has nothing to do with it ;)
The allmighty American said.
If God was an american it wasn't referring to him.
It still shows us that alot of people are leaving a country for a reason. Connect the dots. The state of which Iraq was in before the war is all the result of Saddams actions as president.Quote:
Originally posted by plenderj
1) Irrespective of what country they came through, its hardly proof of why they left.
2) So? People emmigrate from countries all the time.
People emmigrated from Ireland to the UK and US because this country was so poor in the past.
Does that mean we should be bombed just because we had mass emmigrations ?
But nothing to do with the sanctions imposed and the fact that he's only limited on the number of barrels of oil per day he can sell :rolleyes:
And irrespective of what sort of situation the country is in, what right does that give the US to overthrow the president ?
There are many many countries around the world far worse off.
But the US doesn't lift a finger for those countries does it.
Ok, are you going to make any decent posts in this thread?Quote:
Originally posted by swatty
Then you didn't read it properly.
The allmighty American said.
If God was an american it wasn't referring to him.
It was a perfectly acceptable post he made regarding the almighty USA.Quote:
Originally posted by Pc_Madness
Ok, are you going to make any decent posts in this thread?
Maven sounded quite superior in his statement about having the best missles in the world.
And why were those sanctions imposed Jamie? :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally posted by plenderj
But nothing to do with the sanctions imposed and the fact that he's only limited on the number of barrels of oil per day he can sell :rolleyes:
It was a perfectly acceptable post he made regarding the almighty USA.
Maven sounded quite superior in his statement about having the best missles in the world.
Name a better missile then? The US do have the best missiles. :rolleyes: And Swatty never made reference to allmighty america, just the allmighty, implying god. ;) "The allmighty said. "
My point about the exit of Iraqi's from the country is that the country is not better off if the US had never come, and really, the UN should have stepped in about this a while back, but the US is having to do it because of the risk Iraq poses. :)
What risk? Korea would be more than happy to sell one of its super long range missiles, and I'm sure the Iraqi's could find something nice to fit in that war head ;)
We'll get to Them, Just give us a little time.Quote:
Originally posted by plenderj
And irrespective of what sort of situation the country is in, what right does that give the US to overthrow the president ?
There are many many countries around the world far worse off.
......
;)
If you had ever been in a middle east desert sadn storm, you would know that you can barely see 10 feet in front of you at times. This coupled with the iraqi trick of burning oil would have made it damn near impossible for anything to see through. And once again, the US DOES NOT purposely target civilians, unlike saddam, who has killed tons of HIS OWN PEOPLE. With Chemical weapons I might add. And He will use them again.
Regretfully, some civilians died, but this is war people, bad stuff happens during wars.
There will be more dying as well. The iraqis are well known to use civilians as shields, its a proven fact. Not to mention the hospital that was a staging area for iraqi troops. That is totally against the rules of war. If you really want to stop this war, I suggest you fly over to Baghdad and volunteer your pitiful services. Saddam can always use a few more torture victims, human shields, cannon fodder, etc.
Dogsby
You feel that we are doing such a bad thing getting rid of Saddam then maybe you should go protect some of his things. Heck just go up to one of the Iraqi soldiers who took a kid away from his family to use as a human shiled and offer to trade out.Quote:
Originally posted by plenderj
Rape chambers ? What ?
http://www.google.ie/search?q=saddam...-8&hl=en&meta=
Aah, thank you Dogsby. :) Another intelligent member of the forum. :DQuote:
Originally posted by dogsby
If you had ever been in a middle east desert sadn storm, you would know that you can barely see 10 feet in front of you at times. This coupled with the iraqi trick of burning oil would have made it damn near impossible for anything to see through. And once again, the US DOES NOT purposely target civilians, unlike saddam, who has killed tons of HIS OWN PEOPLE. With Chemical weapons I might add. And He will use them again.
Regretfully, some civilians died, but this is war people, bad stuff happens during wars.
There will be more dying as well. The iraqis are well known to use civilians as shields, its a proven fact. Not to mention the hospital that was a staging area for iraqi troops. That is totally against the rules of war. If you really want to stop this war, I suggest you fly over to Baghdad and volunteer your pitiful services. Saddam can always use a few more torture victims, human shields, cannon fodder, etc.
Dogsby
1) Irrespective of why the sanctions were imposed, that's what's ****ing up the country.Quote:
Originally posted by Pc_Madness
And why were those sanctions imposed Jamie? :rolleyes:
It was a perfectly acceptable post he made regarding the almighty USA.
Maven sounded quite superior in his statement about having the best missles in the world.
Name a better missile then? The US do have the best missiles. :rolleyes: And Swatty never made reference to allmighty america, just the allmighty, implying god. ;) "The allmighty said. "
My point about the exit of Iraqi's from the country is that the country is not better off if the US had never come, and really, the UN should have stepped in about this a while back, but the US is having to do it because of the risk Iraq poses. :)
What risk? Korea would be more than happy to sell one of its super long range missiles, and I'm sure the Iraqi's could find something nice to fit in that war head ;)
2) So what if you have the best missles ? If you can't guarantee you're not going to hit homes and markets then you shouldn't be using any.
3) Ah yes Korea. That united country. I see.
And no-one has any proof that Saddam has anything.
North Korea could also sell a missle to Al Queda.
Yet you're not attacking North Korea are you.
Speaking of human shields, an australian went over there, but was kicked out cause he refused to defend a military target, and once they were out of Iraq, the driver (an iraqi) revealed that he would love to see Saddam over throne.Quote:
Originally posted by Maven
You feel that we are doing such a bad thing getting rid of Saddam then maybe you should go protect some of his things. Heck just go up to one of the Iraqi soldiers who took a kid away from his family to use as a human shiled and offer to trade out.
Now, our little human shield boy thought differently after this little chat. :)
I never said the US purposely targest civilians.Quote:
Originally posted by dogsby
If you had ever been in a middle east desert sadn storm, you would know that you can barely see 10 feet in front of you at times. This coupled with the iraqi trick of burning oil would have made it damn near impossible for anything to see through. And once again, the US DOES NOT purposely target civilians, unlike saddam, who has killed tons of HIS OWN PEOPLE. With Chemical weapons I might add. And He will use them again.
Regretfully, some civilians died, but this is war people, bad stuff happens during wars.
There will be more dying as well. The iraqis are well known to use civilians as shields, its a proven fact. Not to mention the hospital that was a staging area for iraqi troops. That is totally against the rules of war. If you really want to stop this war, I suggest you fly over to Baghdad and volunteer your pitiful services. Saddam can always use a few more torture victims, human shields, cannon fodder, etc.
But do you think a sandstorm would justify the deaths of those civilians to their families ?
Yes Saddam used chemical weapons.
But where's the proof that he will again ?
Russia also used chemical weapons against civilians remember.
Rules of war?
You're dealing with guerrilla warfare.
The only way they can defend their country against the likes of the US is to resort to those sorts of tactics.
Look at Michael Collins' 12 apostles for example.
They have been digging oil trenchs and setting them on fire around bagdad.Quote:
Originally posted by honeybee
Burning oil wells could hardly be called bad weather. Of course if GWB has coined a new term called "Bad Weather" to represent it, I have no idea. :rolleyes:
From what I know, the oil wells in the Southern Iraq have been set on fire, and the air raids were taking place on Baghdad. Consult a map if you are unsure and you will find out yourself how ridiculous it is to blame the misbehaving missiles on the burning oil wells.
Yeah, 20 dead civilians is nothing to you, because you lost about 3000 didn't you? So you will start to worry about civilian deaths only after the toll reaches 3000, because then the old score will have been settled :rolleyes:
So much for the technical accuracy of the US weapons. :rolleyes:
.
I feel you're doing a bad thing by getting rid of Saddam without any legal reason to do so.Quote:
Originally posted by Maven
You feel that we are doing such a bad thing getting rid of Saddam then maybe you should go protect some of his things. Heck just go up to one of the Iraqi soldiers who took a kid away from his family to use as a human shiled and offer to trade out.
And no-one said that the Iraqi soldiers are actually grabbing children.
Using human shields can me anything in different contexts.
One taximan thought Saddam should be overthrown.Quote:
Originally posted by Pc_Madness
Speaking of human shields, an australian went over there, but was kicked out cause he refused to defend a military target, and once they were out of Iraq, the driver (an iraqi) revealed that he would love to see Saddam over throne.
Now, our little human shield boy thought differently after this little chat. :)
Well okay keep bombing the country, kill civilians, and wreck the entire region.
I'm conviced!
So all replys you can read, understand and are written like you think are written by intelligent members.Quote:
Originally posted by Pc_Madness
Aah, thank you Dogsby. :) Another intelligent member of the forum. :D
This says plenty of your intelligence.
Saddams actions resulted in the sanctions. He choose to "****" up his country. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally posted by plenderj
1) Irrespective of why the sanctions were imposed, that's what's ****ing up the country.
2) So what if you have the best missles ? If you can't guarantee you're not going to hit homes and markets then you shouldn't be using any.
3) Ah yes Korea. That united country. I see.
And no-one has any proof that Saddam has anything.
North Korea could also sell a missle to Al Queda.
Yet you're not attacking North Korea are you.
So you'd prefer that troops went in, and blast the **** out of an area with artillery, tanks, mortars and rifle fire instead? Honestly...
Your knowledge of war amazes me Jamie. Why in the world, would you declare war on an enemy when your army is in the Gulf? Korea won't be left out of the fun, don't you worry about that. :)
Yes, so that you wouldn't use anymore air raids.Quote:
Originally posted by Maven
They have been digging oil trenchs and setting them on fire around bagdad.
Yet, even though you know that the missles may not work through such thick smoke and sandstorms, they are still launched.
1) Yes, but you cannot use the fact that the country is now ****ed up as a justification to bomb it more.Quote:
Originally posted by Pc_Madness
Saddams actions resulted in the sanctions. He choose to "****" up his country. :rolleyes:
So you'd prefer that troops went in, and blast the **** out of an area with artillery, tanks, mortars and rifle fire instead? Honestly...
Your knowledge of war amazes me Jamie. Why in the world, would you declare war on an enemy when your army is in the Gulf? Korea won't be left out of the fun, don't you worry about that. :)
2) No I'd prefer you didn't blow up markets at all.
"Why in the world, would you declare war on an enemy when your army is in the Gulf?"
What ?
"Korea won't be left out of the fun, don't you worry about that"
North Korea you mean.
Yea he's just suppling his troops with Gas Masks and atropine so I'm sure he doesn't have anything.Quote:
Originally posted by plenderj
1) Irrespective of why the sanctions were imposed, that's what's ****ing up the country.
2) So what if you have the best missles ? If you can't guarantee you're not going to hit homes and markets then you shouldn't be using any.
3) Ah yes Korea. That united country. I see.
And no-one has any proof that Saddam has anything.
North Korea could also sell a missle to Al Queda.
Yet you're not attacking North Korea are you.
I'm going to be the first to tell you what is about to happen before you even suspect anything:
When they launch the nerve gas, thier is going to be more civilians die then you'll ever know about.
"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature, and has no chance of being free unless made or kept so by the exertions of better men than himself. "
--John Stuart Mill
Actually, I'm simply stating that Dogbsy comments are logical, yet you guys seem to have trouble accepting this kind of thinking?Quote:
Originally posted by swatty
So all replys you can read, understand and are written like you think are written by intelligent members.
This says plenty of your intelligence.
And I never stated that because Dogsby took my viewpoint on the issue, that he was intelligent. Jamie is intelligent, even though his recollection of certain events in the past is blurred, but I'm sure a good knock on the head can cure that. :) And all of the other people that are putting forward decents arguments, are intelligent. :)
And where is an example of your intelligence Swatty?
I know i'm stupid.
I am against this war and therefore called stupid by an aussie.
Don't give a damn about it.
Like i've said allready if you can't read them reply's don't reply on them.
Quote:
Originally posted by Maven
Yea he's just suppling his troops with Gas Masks and atropine so I'm sure he doesn't have anything.
I'm going to be the first to tell you what is about to happen before you even suspect anything:
When they launch the nerve gas, thier is going to be more civilians die then you'll ever know about.
1) Just because he's supplying his troops with the equipment it doesn't mean he has the stuff.
It could be perfectly normal operating procedure.
2) You mean, If.
3) Your quote is reprehensible.
So we should all want war. We should all want to fight for the things we want ?