Makes my blood boil

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2254666.stm

Blunkett states that all immigrants whould attempt to speak english in their own homes, as part of an attempt to ease integration difficulties. Yet there's always ****ing someone who thinks it is inherenlty racist and ignorant to suggest such a thing - what a load of ****e :mad:

This is like saying if I settled down in japan, I should ignore any suggestions from the Japanese Home Secretary to speak Japanese to my kids, and defiently speak English...

Big bag of arse.... Beverley Bernard should boil her interfering head... :mad:

I agree with Blunkett. :)

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Originally posted by Gaffer
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2254666.stm

Blunkett states that all immigrants whould attempt to speak english in their own homes, as part of an attempt to ease integration difficulties. Yet there's always ****ing someone who thinks it is inherenlty racist and ignorant to suggest such a thing - what a load of ****e :mad:

This is like saying if I settled down in japan, I should ignore any suggestions from the Japanese Home Secretary to speak Japanese to my kids, and defiently speak English...

Big bag of arse.... Beverley Bernard should boil her interfering head... :mad:

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Hear hear. If you go to france, do they learn english, just for you? No, you learn french. And if you can't speak a lot, tough luck!

Most of the French people are quite happy to help by speaking English a bit if you're really lost for words (literally!).

That is, if you make an effort to learn ;)

I'm with Blunkett on this one - I think he is one of the more enlightened Home Secretaries. As a politician, there is always someone who will take a sentence out of coontext to make a name for themselves. I wonder how much of the essay they had actually read.

As for getting a response from that **** Keith Vaz...says it all really.

Typically overblown reaction. From what I've read I think he means that it would be better that immigrants learn their children both the languages in order to ensue a better future and better opportunities. Nothing unreasonable there or do you expect employers to be polyglots that can speak 50 languages to accomodate anyone that might be speaking them.
There's nothing racist about it.
Invasion of privacy my arse. He didn't say it's mandatory, he only hinted that it would be better. If you are labelled a racist after such a comment, I wonder who the true short-sighted idiot is ...

Who does David Blunkett think he is? How can it possibly be of any benefit to someone to be able to speak the language of the country they're living in?

Suggesting that people should be able to converse with others in their society, and that a lack of ability in this area might cause difficulties, is deeply racist.





:rolleyes:

We ought to show 'em the door. I for one speak fluently Arabic (all dialects mind you), Indian, all European languages, Slavic languages and even Chinese. So do all of my colleagues. Shouldn't be that hard to make it a rule, right ?
After all, personal freedom is a hard fought right and should be preserved at all times.

Actually I think that all immigrants should speak Pictish, Gaelic, Welsh or Saxon depending on whereabouts they settle.

Tá ocras agus tinneas ceann orm :(

What gaffer (and me) was actually hinting at is that you cannot express such opinions without anyone crying "racist" at you. I mean, what Blunkett actually said wasn't all that harsh, was it ?

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Tá ocras agus tinneas ceann orm

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I think you should drink less and eat more then...

I'll be honest, my better half translated that - I only got Tá and ceann which is fairly woeful for four years here...perhaps I should make my family speak Irish at home?

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what Blunkett actually said wasn't all that harsh, was it ?

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No - just misinformed. Children can learn a large number of languages with ease, sdomething that adults find more difficult. Therefore the more languages a child is exposed to the more educated they will be. The lingua franca (pun intended) of England is English so every child in the UK will be exposed to that anyway so they would gain nothing by having their parents speak Engliah and what they would lose is a part of their culture.

Speak irish at home.
Huh, and move to the gaeltacht too then ;)

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Originally posted by MerrionComputin

...
No - just misinformed. Children can learn a large number of languages with ease, sdomething that adults find more difficult. Therefore the more languages a child is exposed to the more educated they will be. The lingua franca (pun intended) of England is English so every child in the UK will be exposed to that anyway so they would gain nothing by having their parents speak Engliah and what they would lose is a part of their culture.

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Granted but I don't think he actually meant replacing the mother tongue with English. I think he rather meant speaking both could be beneficial for the child.
Nothing wrong with that. I'm not advocating the abandoning of culture (and language) either, I just think that it isn't such a bad idea.
On the other hand, it was only a comment, not a law so let's not get carried away eh :)

The thing about the story is that it is a feint-pass. A non-story designed to draw the press away from the real story which was the Labour party split over the possibility of war with Iraq.

Still, just as long as they keep Jack the hack Straw from the front pages it's OK.

I don't understand that one. They say the new developments are scarcely believable. Then why not sit around the table and see for yourself whether they are unbelievable ?
Maybe I'm not supposed to understand ...

He doesn't "make" people talk English to their kids, he merely suggested it. It's in parallel with their own language, it's not compulsory (nor will it ever be), it wasn't even a proposal and it certainly isn't a law.

I don't believe this is a feint pass at all - government does not stop due to other major incidents - I would imagine Blunkett has more than enough to keep him busy - the timing may co-incide with Iraqi-this and Iraqi-that, but when is it ever going to be good to announce controversial statements these days?

As for the statement itself, why not suggest that immigrants try to speak the langage at home? He hasn't made it law, has he? I'm a pretty well-balanced individual, and i reckon a majority of people like me would start talking Japanese to our children at home if we lived in Japan. If anything, can it not encourage people to talk at home, instead of learning English from watching banal ****e like "I'm a cockring get me out of here!"?

They let these ****ers "entertain" them at home in English....

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Originally posted by honeybee
See, how many men indulge in adultery at work? But when it's done by the president of US, it's a different matter :rolleyes:

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...and the price of fish is?

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Originally posted by honeybee
After reading this, I think ID is the second sensible poster here after Gaffer and me :rolleyes:

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I can't quite tell whether HB noticed the high levels of sarcasm in my post.

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Originally posted by honeybee

Does anybody have any figures on the levels of English language knowledge and usage among the children of people who have migrated to Britain from other, specially non-English countries? I would think the kids can speak English as easily as any British kids, for various reasons already discussed earlier. As for the grown-ups, the government could just not bother. After all if you enforce English as the official language for all official communication, you are ensuring that almost all the people will get at least a working knowledge of it, and if you make it compulsory at schools, the kids will surely learn it.

.

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Its not just the kids that would benefit.
The parents would get practise too.
And think of it this way, the kids would pick up english far quicker if they were speaking it at home too, instead of just their native tounge.

Naw, s'not sarcasm, it was surrealism, like the shallow sponge tree. ;)

Your comments are based on a pretty fragile fact - that most immigrants in england have a good grasp of English.

In reality, this could said to be true for the younger generation. But I don't think Blunkett is focussing on the children; to him the problem lies with the parents. There are still a large number of the older generation who have problems speaking English.

I live near a famous Bangladeshi community in London called Brick Lane (each building is a curry house) - all roadsigns in that area are bi-lingual. whilst I do not have a problem with multiculturism (I live in London) and nor am I racist (wife Japanese, Parents Irish ;) ), I think there is something odd about having bangladeshi on road signs in London. In fact, the problem is extended to schools - I have seen school signs in Tower Hamlets that have Bangladeshi written over them. This cannot be good.

And the people that ordered these bi-lanuage signs? Not the children....

If immigrants are coming to a country, and they start to make the lives of the people of that country more difficult by not trying to speak the language etc, then there'll be problems.

If myself and hudreds of other irish people went to japan, and only spoke irish, and refused, or rather resisted, learning to speak japanese, then that would be making life more difficult for the japanese.
In turn then we would end up losing out because of it.

... just my thoughts on the matter ...

Agreed. And I reckon most of them are like that. But it's the extremists on both sides that get the publicicity unfortunalty...

Too flammable. Easier to suggest that we all become nice little Britons.

Actually, I'm all for Labour's policy in this. As much as Blair may be hated by some member of this board, some policies have been inspired...

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Originally posted by Gaffer



...I'm a pretty well-balanced individual,...

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No, you're a pot smoking loon.



:P

td.

Most foreigners in this nation adopt the language with great speed. They are smart enough to know that this is in their interest.

However their are certain other communities that seem Hell bent on building their little Meccas.

Having 7 sisters my opinions on these sexist thugs are probably best kept to myself.

Political Correctness and all.

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Originally posted by venerable bede
Having 7 sisters

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Hi.
I'd like to introduce myself.
My name is jamie, and if there's anything I can help you with, just let me know.


;)

My Sisters would like to meet you "ALL OF THEM!!"

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Originally posted by venerable bede
My Sisters would like to meet you "ALL OF THEM!!"

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Hmmmm.
Should I be scared, flattered, fleeing the country...?

Depends on how much energy you have.

I would be carefull of Francis though, she is seriously spooky.

They should be round yours in about ten minutes.

Have Fun:)

hmmm.
might take that vacation early this year.

ciao ;)

Just noticed some of your links to tutorials.

Dont suppose you have any tutorials in VB.net have you.

I've just started learning it and need all the help I can get.

Cheers:)

The tutorials are missing names because after VBF went down it lost the names.
Haven't gotten around to replacing the names yet.

And no I'm afraid I don't have any VB.NET samples.
Though I would suggest checking out www.vbworld.com for VB.NET samples, and also you might want to give Karl Moore's book on VB.NET a go.
Its very good!

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Originally posted by tumblingdown
No, you're a pot smoking loon.



:P

td.

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/whips off mask

goddamit bloke, lumbered.. :(

I don't see how they could enforce a particular language being spoken in the household anyways...

And I think that forcing an immigrant family to speak a particular language in the household is going too far. They will speak that language as a matter of neccesity outside of the house, but not to speak their own language in the home is step 1 to losing cultural identity.

Besides, the children often have a hard time speaking chinese as a result of speaking english at least 90% of the time.

That guy didn't do his hoemwork on this one...

-C

Importnat opint her is that he's not trying to enforce it....he's suggesting it. Enforcing it would be the first step into a George Orwell novel...

How to you quantify maintainence of culture anyway? Does a Pakistani family speaking English at home qualify them as "not-being-Pakistani"? I don't think that it does at all.

I'll give you a real example: my wife is Japanese, who came to the UK as a 13 year old. she is now 29, speaks English with and English accent. She has a western attitude, down to the way she walks, dresses, speaks etc. When they were in the UK, her father spoke english to her at home.

Does she feel like she's not Japanese? Not at all. No crisis in culture whatsoever. The advantages however are plain to see - she can get a job anywhere, she integrates into both UK and Japanese culture seamlessly; basically the world is her oyster. Far more so than if her father maintained the attitude some immigrants have when relocated to different countries (and I refer to the English abroad as well).

So has Blunkett really got it worng?

And what is with this 'cultural identity' anyway ? Perhaps if we start to regard learning about other cultures as an enrichment of our own life instead of seeing it as an invasion we wouldn't have all these racial tensions.
There's quite a number of muslims in Antwerp and I regard that culture as an addition to our western society. But it requires them to accept our culture and ways too. Then we would have a true multicultural society.
Cultural identity is conditioned by your surroundings. If you're from Asian descendant, no-one is going to deny you your roots.

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Originally posted by siyan
And I think that forcing an immigrant family to speak a particular language in the household is going too far.

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It was only a suggestion though

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Originally posted by Wally Pipp
and even Chinese.

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Mandarin or Cantonese?

While they're at it, they should get all people whose home language is already English, to learn to speak English proper, like, in the first place, right John?

All those bloody Geordies, Brummies, Man-whatever they're called, Cornish etc are all indecipherable to proper people from the Home Counties. Everyone should have to audition for the BBC and if you fail you get locked up in camp where you have to learn Her Majesty's English.

Ee bah goom.

Mancunians :p

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Originally posted by Gaffer
Importnat opint her is that he's not trying to enforce it....he's suggesting it. Enforcing it would be the first step into a George Orwell novel...

How to you quantify maintainence of culture anyway? Does a Pakistani family speaking English at home qualify them as "not-being-Pakistani"? I don't think that it does at all.

I'll give you a real example: my wife is Japanese, who came to the UK as a 13 year old. she is now 29, speaks English with and English accent. She has a western attitude, down to the way she walks, dresses, speaks etc. When they were in the UK, her father spoke english to her at home.

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She's 13 when she wenk to the UK, so she basically half-grew up in Japan. That allows her to retain her culture. Had she been 3 then she'd have been likely assimilated.

Different cultures have a different way of thinking; when you start to think in a different way then that's when you lose your cultural identiy (from a minority POV).

And a pakistani family speaking english at home does not qualify as non-pakistani, but its the still a step towards losing their culture

there are two groups: the youngins, and hte older people. you're not going to force a 30 year old to give up his/her cultural identity...you can't even force a 15 year old to really. but a 6, 7 year old (or younger) can really lose his/her cultural idenitty really quickly and that process is expidited very qucikly by speaking a "foreign" language at home.

-C