How would you rate VB against C++? A debatable topic...
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How would you rate VB against C++? A debatable topic...
And it has been, about 30 billion times. Search the forum to see the opinions.Quote:
Originally posted by Subhadip
A debatable topic...
;)
I think its more than that :DQuote:
Originally posted by crptcblade
And it has been, about 30 billion times. Search the forum to see the opinions.
;)
regds,
ashay
VB is okay...
I am thinkin' of changin 2 C++...
But it's hard, since everytime I encounter programming stuffs
my mind will start spinnin like VB, just find it hard to convert to
C++
Everytime I get an idea I just can't express it in C++ have to
do it in VB...
Nevertheless I'm gonna change to C++, sooner or later, just a
matter of time, and I change 4 the better :)
my last count was 37,041,373,862, but about 6 billion of those were purely theological and had no technical content
in any event... vb6 is not as powerful as c++ because c++ is more low level programming... vb hides a lot of that stuff by doing a lot of the work itself using its runtimes and all that..
VB.NET is supposed to offer equal functionality to C++. its possible that it is still not AS powerful.. but it is much closer now supporting many new things that only C could do before...
"VB.NET is supposed to offer equal functionality to C++. its possible that it is still not AS powerful"
eh? the way the .Net framework is implemented VB HAS to be as powerful as C++ (C#).... it produces the same code.
Imogen
1 word - ".net". This ends all these petty arguments, Imogen - you're completely right, every exposed property, method, event etc accessible to C++ or C# in .net can be obtained in vb.net too.Quote:
in any event... vb6 is not as powerful as c++ because c++ is more low level programming...
Now I'll have no more on this, kleinma, go to the back of the class! ;)
well from the book i read on .NET it said that C# was the language used to write the .NET framework.. so it had some advantages over VB.. as well as C++ having some small advantages... even though they all compile to IL.. maybe it is that some low level programming things are "easier" to do in the C langauges
I've got a few of the wrox books on .net & I'll have to have another look, you could well be right, but I think I remember reading all languages were equal in that one.
Subhadip, as a general background for the discussions(versions before .net) the general disussion is that C++ is speedier at excecuting, can handle memory management and variable destroying better and can access low level procedures like talkijng to the processor & hard drive.
Whilst VB is p!ss easy to write, can do 80% of the same stuff & you can write a project 90% quicker than you can in C++ (better for RAD developing).
well as far as "what" you can do.. i hear they are equal... but when it comes to "how" it is done.. that is where the C languages might have a small advantage... then again like you said.. VB has a big advantage by being a RAD tool easy for creating GUIs...Quote:
Originally posted by alex_read
I've got a few of the wrox books on .net & I'll have to have another look, you could well be right, but I think I remember reading all languages were equal in that one.
Subhadip, as a general background for the discussions(versions before .net) the general disussion is that C++ is speedier at excecuting, can handle memory management and variable destroying better and can access low level procedures like talkijng to the processor & hard drive.
Whilst VB is p!ss easy to write, can do 80% of the same stuff & you can write a project 90% quicker than you can in C++ (better for RAD developing).
I will have to disagree with you that VB is Pi$$ easy to write though... I mean yeah it is easier than the C languages... but that doesn't make it easy... Sure dropping some controls on a form and puting some code behind them isn't so hard... but some of the more advanced VB stuff is pretty complex...
This Debate Makes no Sense until you define what you are looking for in a language.
Effectively That is the Debate, what should a language give you.
simon
nah, the most complex thing you can do in VB is to do with classes and implementing interfaces (not rocket science). But I hasten to add. not many people do take the time to learn these details.Quote:
Sure dropping some controls on a form and puting some code behind them isn't so hard... but some of the more advanced VB stuff is pretty complex...
Imogen
on the issue of VB.NET being just as powerful as C++, i think there's some confusion.
the way i understand is that you can write an app. in C++.NET which will be just as powerful as something in VB.NET, but you can also write unmanaged C++ in the .NET IDE, which doesn't target the framework, which is likely to be more powerful. correct me if i'm wrong. :)
So what you are saying is that Microsoft have made C++ (C#) less powerful in .NET??
I find that hard to believe, C++ programmers around the globe would be up in arms.
Imogen
This is what I understood from a msft presentation I attended.Quote:
Originally posted by tr0n
on the issue of VB.NET being just as powerful as C++, i think there's some confusion.
the way i understand is that you can write an app. in C++.NET which will be just as powerful as something in VB.NET, but you can also write unmanaged C++ in the .NET IDE, which doesn't target the framework, which is likely to be more powerful. correct me if i'm wrong. :)
Point taken, ;) should have rephrased that one, I meant it's probably the easiest to start writing with out of all the languages - you haven't got inheritance, polymorphism & all that stuff to worry about (as I'm currently battling with / trying to understand in .net ). :pQuote:
I will have to disagree with you that VB is Pi$$ easy to write though... I mean yeah it is easier than the C languages... but that doesn't make it easy... Sure dropping some controls on a form and puting some code behind them isn't so hard... but some of the more advanced VB stuff is pretty complex...
Define "likely".Quote:
which is likely to be more powerful
Imi
well, yes and no. :p i'm saying that an app. written in C++ that targets the .NET framework isn't likely to be as powerful as an app. written in unmanaged (i think i'm using that term right ;)) C++. so C++ programmers can still write their super-powerful stuff, but if they wanna use .NET they may lose some of that.Quote:
Originally posted by Imogen
So what you are saying is that Microsoft have made C++ (C#) less powerful in .NET??
I find that hard to believe, C++ programmers around the globe would be up in arms.
Imogen
btw, C# isn't the same as C++ if that's why you put it in brackets.
meaning, i think i have a vague idea of what i'm talking about. :pQuote:
Originally posted by Imogen
Define "likely".
Imi
polymorphism is implemented in VB to some degree.
Using interfaces.
imogen
Well yes, but do MS officially state "C++ targeted away from .Net is LIKELY to be more powerful" or do they say "it IS more powerful" ?Quote:
meaning, i think i have a vague idea of what i'm talking about
Or is it a matter of conjecture on the part of MS sales staff or other?
This is what I am trying to ascertain.
Imogen
well, i don't know exactly what MS says, but i would imagine that C++ that doesn't target .NET is more powerful, seeing as it has no runtime files or anything, and compiles into machine code.
I think we all have to agree that the gap between C++ and VB in .NET has closed to the point of being un-noticable . Which isnt a bad thing from a VB programmers perspective.
Imogen
Isn't that another way of saying "likely"? :)Quote:
but i would imagine
Only pulling your leg. I do understand what you are saying. I was just trying to find the official version from MS.
Imogen
hehe
yeah, i think that's probably true. :) i have seen an OpenGL program written in C# that ran very fast, which VB could obviously do as well now.
MS doesn't seem to say anythign about what is more powerful.. they only say that vb is a lot more powerful than it used to me... I would say if you are already a VB progammer then stick with it.. if you are a C programmer then do C++ or C#.. if your both then good for you because knowing those 2 languages inside and out is pretty tough...
personally, i'm switching over to C#, mainly because i prefer the C-style syntax. :)
lol
Subhadip asked this question and has not been seen since.. maybe our intense discussion scared him off the forum :D
I did my training in C++ (many moons ago) but then got pulled into the seedy world of VB (not out of choice).Quote:
personally, i'm switching over to C#, mainly because i prefer the C-style syntax
I feel I would have to take too much of a step back if I started with C++ now, so obviously I am very pleased to hear that MS have now brought VB up to speed in .Net
Imogen
:DQuote:
Originally posted by kleinma
lol
Subhadip asked this question and has not been seen since.. maybe our intense discussion scared him off the forum :D
probably thought it sounded like too much trouble to bother with either language. :p
yeah right now he is writing some COBOL :DQuote:
Originally posted by tr0n
:D
probably thought it sounded like too much trouble to bother with either language. :p
Quote:
yeah right now he is writing some COBOL
STOP THAT!!
I will be having bad dreams tonight !!! :)
I attended a msft presentation and asked this specifically to the presenter. Here is what I understood.
1) Apps developed with VS6 C++ will be faster than anything developed in any .net language
2) Apps developed in VB.net, C#, and VC++ (in the .net ide) will have about the same speed as one another, with some small advantage to VB.net (Im not sure why the small advantage). The similarity in speed is because all compile to the same Common Runtime Language.
how much faster?Quote:
1) Apps developed with VS6 C++ will be faster than anything developed in any .net language
Imogen
The best answer I have gotten to that is "depends on what you are doing"Quote:
Originally posted by Imogen
how much faster?
Imogen
If you get a quantitative answer to this question, please let me know.
I mean, 50% , 20%, 10% faster?? or is the speed difference neglible?
In general terms (average).
I suppose what I am saying is,
Is C++ .net a lot slower than C++ 6 (VS6)?
Anyone?
Imogen
Make a simple C++ (VS6) program that has a loop with some operations you consider typical and I will test on both VS6 and .net. Make sure the loop is big enough to take a minute or so to run though.Quote:
Originally posted by Imogen
I mean, 50% , 20%, 10% faster?? or is the speed difference neglible?
In general terms (average).
I suppose what I am saying is,
Is C++ .net a lot slower than C++ 6 (VS6)?
Anyone?
Imogen
isn't there also an issue with .net that the first time you run it, it'll run quite slowly because of just-in-time compilation. but the second time you run it, it'll be much faster?
I wish I could, I left my .Net disks in Zurich.
I will have to wait 6 weeks to try (thats when I go back)
Imogen
im not worried about speed... people are upgrading their computers all the time.. here at work we are all on 2k machines @ 1ghz and we just ordered 2.4 ghz machines to replace these.. so yeah if you are running win 98 on a P200 with the framework installed.. yeah an app might run slow.. but as far as my job goes.. my apps will run plenty fast enough
You wouldnt say that if you were writing games :)
Imogen
well, like i said, i've got an OpenGL program (where you can walk around a small 3D environment) at home written in C# that runs very fast (i get about 70fps). i have the source code too. :)
I think the issue is that .net only compiles what it needs for a run. So if a procedure gets called 10 times, it compiles on the first call but not the subsequent ones. Parts of the prog that never get used during a run never get compiled. At least thats the way I understand it.Quote:
Originally posted by tr0n
isn't there also an issue with .net that the first time you run it, it'll run quite slowly because of just-in-time compilation. but the second time you run it, it'll be much faster?
Why the hell did this get moved to Chit Chat anyway?
Can you convert to C++ (VS6) and do some comparsons (if the code isnt too complex)?Quote:
Originally posted by tr0n
well, like i said, i've got an OpenGL program (where you can walk around a small 3D environment) at home written in C# that runs very fast (i get about 70fps). i have the source code too. :)
Chit Chat?
Obviously someone doesnt understand that we are discussing the complexities of the VB and C++ languages.
Chit Chat indeed.
imogen
sorry, but C++ scares me. :oQuote:
Originally posted by Muddy
Can you convert to C++ (VS6) and do some comparsons (if the code isnt too complex)?
Weed :p
I like C++ because it runs on something *other* than Windows ;)
I dislike it for the very same reason :)
imogen
Nooooo......evil M$ lover!!! BURN HER!!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:Quote:
Originally posted by Imogen
I dislike it for the very same reason :)
imogen
Heh, kidding -- I use Windows at home for normal use, but most of my development is on Linux ;) Use Solaris and Irix at work, much more fun than Windows :p
LOL
In all seriousness I like MS stuff, Unix and Linux.
I just think that in all reality MS has brought computing forward in leaps and bounds.
You cant deny that :)
Imogen
Totally inconclusive =). I could write a DX App in VB6 that performs easily as well as one in VC++6. Since DX(or OGL, you pick) is already a compiled DLL, its going to run at the same speed, whatever the calling language is, as long as most of the code is DX or OGL calls.Quote:
Originally posted by tr0n
well, like i said, i've got an OpenGL program (where you can walk around a small 3D environment) at home written in C# that runs very fast (i get about 70fps). i have the source code too. :)
Also, the speed of the aforementioned calls is nearly 100% dependant on your Video card, or CPU speed, depending on the video card that you have.
Z.
[edit]
Oh yeah, and C++ has templates, which makes it by far the better language.
Well...they've made it more accessible to normal people, but by doing so they've put it back by a good few years :(Quote:
Originally posted by Imogen
LOL
In all seriousness I like MS stuff, Unix and Linux.
I just think that in all reality MS has brought computing forward in leaps and bounds.
You cant deny that :)
Imogen
Whether that makes any difference is almost a moot point, since I'm not a normal person, and use whatever the standard is. If hardware vendors decide to concentrate on Linux, then I can effortlessly migrate over; not a problem for me as long as the OS that's standard actually works...
yes... choose your OS on how fun it is :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally posted by parksie
Nooooo......evil M$ lover!!! BURN HER!!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:
Heh, kidding -- I use Windows at home for normal use, but most of my development is on Linux ;) Use Solaris and Irix at work, much more fun than Windows :p
this whole debate is pointless. We all know that MASM will always be the best~:eek:
More importantly, we have a woman from Switzerland called Imogen and Jamie is nowhere to be seen :eek:
Cant template in MASM either...Quote:
Originally posted by snakeeyes1000
this whole debate is pointless. We all know that MASM will always be the best~:eek:
Z.
hello ;)