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I don't know exactly where to post this, but I'm looking for a few people to help me. I made a simple demo of how to setup an app as shareware, and I need some people to try to crack it or break it for me.
I will even give a sample Name and Serial number for you to mess around with and am willing to give a cash award to anyone who can figure it out.
PM me or respond if you're interested.
ohh! i will volunteer! i cracked a password-protected program with a hex editor. i think i will be useful!:D
Great. I have a few bugs to work out first, then I'll post a copy of it.
If it works well, I'll impliment it into my programs and start selling them. I'm not trying to keep it safe from super-crackers, just the average programmer. I know it's not possible to make it completely uncrackable.
Can I have a free copy?
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
anyways post the app or whatever and ill do what i can.
Alright, here is the project. You should get a message box saying you've cracked it, and the label on the form will say thank you for registering. To prove that you cracked it, let me know exactly what the message box said (you can probably get this through a hex editor :(, but please be honest).
Since people can just post Serial Numbers on the web, I tried to spoof that as well, so here is a dummy serial number and registration info that works on my system:
First Name: Kristopher
Last Name: Wilson
Serial Number: 51413-1186-431741-209040
Do your best. Thanks alot.
Eh, the program would probably help, wouldn't it?
yep! hold on hobo... I'm gonna try to crack it ;)Quote:
Originally posted by The Hobo
Eh, the program would probably help, wouldn't it?
Any luck?
nope! you put it in the registry so it's pretty damn hard :D
The only thing I used the registry for is to check if it's the first time you've run the program (which I'll be removing soon and storing it elsewhere) and the name and serial number (after you register it)
Anyone else wanna give it a shot?
can't crack it. its a good app!
There is an algorhythm to it involving the first name, last name, serial number, and date the program was first ran. I know it can't be that hard to find it out.
hmm
i've made my own registration scheme .. it's in form of a dll, and i can adapt it to all my programs very easily...
maybe we could share some ideas?
right now mine works like this:
random numbers and user's hard drive serial # make up their installation key...
this key is stored in registry, encrypted with base64 and some xor encryption...
user must send install key to me, and i have a generator that makes up the product activation code...
so, when they enter product activation code i have sent them, the program does this:
1) Checks the hard drive serial against the current hard drive's serial... if they aren't same, it makes a new install key and whole process starts over...
2)If hard drive serials match, product activation code is checked against what it should be based on the install code...
this system basically makes it so nobody can have the same installation code.. and since product activation code is derived from install code, only one unique product activation code works for their install key....
works kinda neat, as long as noone figures out how my product activation code is derived...
i'm wondering how you're implementing checking this in your app.. do u have a simple on time thing where it checks the key, and if it returns true, registration is successful?
that would be quite easy to crack so i'm told...
i've got mine returning the date if registration is ok, and then that value is checked against the date... just one lil thing to throw a cracker off...
from there, i have a timer going in background that at random intervals will keep checking the product activation code....
in all of my code, i have several odd named subs and functions that call other odd named subs and functions to do parts of the main code, creating a maze of code to work through for the cracker (and me :( ) and of course all my variable names and calls and stuff are inconspicuously named things like dates and system stuff...
im hoping with several places checking the code, and weird names for stuff, that the average to intermmediate cracker will be thrown off...
i think as an improvement i will though change how my product activation code is derived, as it seems to be my weak point right now... it's simply changing some numbers around, converting them to letters, and adding more numbers which are sum of other numbers in the key... not very strong...
anyways.. enough with me talking...
just hoping you and maybe some others can share some concepts and ideas for this purpose...
maybe some decent crackers around could help us out by trying to crack these? i will post mine next day ...
Yes, I'm hoping someone will crack it...the only way they could is to figure out my algorhythm (sp?), I think, and generate their own serial.
I just do a match when the program starts. The serial is stored in the registry, and when the program starts, it get's the serial, then generates what the serial should be based on some information, and if they don't match, then it errors them and closes.
I think i cracked it for you, i tried to use the name and serial you provided and it didnt work (came up with an error). Anyway i enclose the cracked version of the program...it should register using any name/serial, and i got round the startup validation ("Nice try" message) as well. Hehe i liked the "Congrats, you busted my nuts, you b*st*rd."
celest how did you crack it?
dissasembled it.
elaborate
First i dissasembled it, then looked for the strings, then looked for the jumps/calls/references, found both of them for the validation and on startup validation, then i used hiew to reverse them. I could of made it so it would validate no matter if the serial/name was real or not but decided not to in this case.
did you use a program to capture the strings? Not sure what disassembling means but sure iterests me!
I used a w32 dissasembler, once the program is dissasembled i can look through a list of strings used within the program and then chose the one im after, i then backtrack through the code looking for interesting calls/references. I backtrack through the references to find the jumps and then its a matter of reversing the jumps. It's a little bit harder than that but that's to put it simply
where can i get this program?
Another way would be to use a system debugger such as SoftIce. Also since the exe i posted just reversed the jumps, if you enter a real serial/name it will say it is invalid. I'll post another one where it will accept the name/serial even if its the real one or a fake one.
Do a search on google for w32dasm.
Did you use SmartCheck to crack it? That program is awsome... I was amazed at how easily hampster cracked my OCX registration using SmartCheck. It seems there's nothing you can do to protect a program from that...:(
NM... i saw your other post too late :D
Hehe yep smartcheck is a nice program, i didnt use it this time mainly because i like doing it 'the old fashioned' way :)
Ok got it so it will validate the name and serial even if it is real or not
damn! so there's nothing I can do to protect it against this?
As with most things, if they are determined enough then nothing will stop them. Just on a side note, that exe was pretty easy to crack, took about 5 mins to find and crack both validation sequences :)
ok..
i have my antipiracy scheme ready to be cracked...
umm just download the attatched file.... make sure you register the NLChkPaC16.dll before you attempt to run the program!!!
you're even getting an advantage since i've given you the dll file that all the important stuff is in :)... it's named weird so that it might not be as easy to recognize to the average cracker..
then, after you've registered the dll... just run the program.... now i can't give you an example product activation code that works because that code is derived from an installation code which is created unique to every machine... but i'd still like to see if u can figure out how that key is derived, and attempt to crack it :)..
once you've succesfully got into the program, you should see big words that say Program has been activated! ....
also, if u get to this point, stick around a little while... and see if u can STAY in the program... i have some other places where activation code is checked... let it run for about 40 secons while your in it... it should attempt to check the code once or twice in that time frame :)
anyways,, here's the file, have fun, and report back if u crack it, and please let me know how, where the weakness was :)
Hobo, this isn't a cut at you, but think about it. Microsoft has a ton of programmers.
Some of their programmers may even be pretty good coders. They haven't come up with anything that works, so what makes you think you will?
Basically, you have to sell enough copies of your software to honest people that you still make a profit or decide that it's a hobby and take what you get from shareware sales and be happy.
A month after you release your program, cracked versions will be all over KaZaa and similar. I know someone (not me, I don't have it) who downloaded the full version of VB .Net from KaZaa last month. And the sad fact is, he doesn't see anything wrong with it. I did talk him into getting rid of it, but that's not really the point.
If the security of your app relies on the hope that no one will discovers your algorithm, then it is flawed from the start. It will just be a matter of time before someone, in this case Celest reverse engineers the thing.
Look into one way hash functions (i.e. SHA256, SHA512, MD5 blah blah) and possibly try to implement those into your code. I've seen numerous examples lying around the net. Try a search. :)
i don't think the algorithm is the weak point ..... from what i've heard, it is quite easy to go into an exe file and basically cut out function calls and stuff.... am i right?
anyways, i think i will try to implement some type of hashing in my routine.... probably sha256....
still waiting on someone to crack my thing :)
i'm not concerned if it can be cracked, im concerned about how easy it is cracked..
ok,
i've changed my algorithm for hopefully the last time... it's a fairly involved process... some 1 way hashing, some conversions of numbers to ascii, and some replacing of characters and some selecting characters from this and putting them into a smaller key....
well it should be impossible to reverse engineer considering it's one way hashing,... so i think the only way of someone cracking the algorithm is to dissassemble the code and see what exactly it's doing...
sooooo...
i've attatched the updated version.... i'd still like someone to crack it. :)
Nothing made me think I would. I just didn't want to have a cheesy system. I wanted something that was sound and professional like, so atleast half of my users wouldn't know how to break it. I wasn't trying to defy all the rules and be a hero. Just wanted something to be there, ya know. But thanks for the input.Quote:
Originally posted by cafeenman
Hobo, this isn't a cut at you, but think about it. Microsoft has a ton of programmers.
Some of their programmers may even be pretty good coders. They haven't come up with anything that works, so what makes you think you will?
I didn't know it was that easy to reverse engineer something, so I was relying on my algrithm. I do now know better. This was before Celest tore through me in 5 minutes.Quote:
Originally posted by [Digital-X-Treme]
If the security of your app relies on the hope that no one will discovers your algorithm, then it is flawed from the start. It will just be a matter of time before someone, in this case Celest reverse engineers the thing.
But thanks to everyone for the input. I'll just go with what I got and hopefully I'll make a few bucks off some good honest people. :)
I got lost while I was typing my response and never actually finished it.
I wasn't trying to dishearten you, just point out the facts. You should do what you can to protect your software and your customers. However, as long as your straight with your customers about how secure your software really is, then you shouldn't lose sleep over it.
Just do the best you can and do what you've done here. Ask for help and learn how to do it better. But if you do this because you enjoy it, then don't let people who don't respect your property suck all the enjoyment out of it for you.
Here's something else I just thought of. I did this with Vb3 many years ago. It worked pretty well. I don't have any idea how easily this could be cracked, but for the average user I think it would work pretty well.
Put a hidden label on your form with a known string, such as "9999999999" Then compile your program. I modified the PDW vb source files to find the string in the compressed files and replace it with the encrypted serial number of their hard drive. The only way they could get around this scheme was to make a copy of the floppy before they ever used it.
It's not as complicated as it sounds. I managed to pull it off when I had only been programming a few months. I think what I did was use the hard drive's serial number for an encryption key. The problem with this scheme is that the user can't ever install the software on another of their computers.
With everything on CDs now, I'm not sure how it could be modified, but it's worth thinking about.
Hobo,
What type of people will be using your prog?
If it's the "regular" non "cracker" type people which compose of about 90% of your potential customer pool, do you actually think that they'd go through all the lenghs of trying to crack it, trying every method possible?
But if your app is MEANT for all the crackheads (pun intended) out there, it's in that case you'd have to go for the Holy Grail in uncrackable programs. (Yet to be discovered)
No, I'm not dissuading you. As Caffeenman pointed out, not even Micro$oft could do it... I've seen cracked copies of WinXP, which need no activation/registration whatsoever.
well..
the problem is, it takes but one cracker to crack it and create a keygen or something.... then any joe schmoe can use it to bypass your scheme...
Programmer's will be using my program...that's why I was worried.Quote:
Originally posted by mendhak
Hobo,
What type of people will be using your prog?
If it's the "regular" non "cracker" type people which compose of about 90% of your potential customer pool, do you actually think that they'd go through all the lenghs of trying to crack it, trying every method possible?
But if your app is MEANT for all the crackheads (pun intended) out there, it's in that case you'd have to go for the Holy Grail in uncrackable programs. (Yet to be discovered)
No, I'm not dissuading you. As Caffeenman pointed out, not even Micro$oft could do it... I've seen cracked copies of WinXP, which need no activation/registration whatsoever.
nevays.... most of the people i will be selling software to are small businesses, etc where the software is quite customized... so, there should really be no problems even without some anti-piracy measure... but i'll put it in anyways because im greedy...
You're doomed :(
Ok, since im at work i havent got a lot of time to check redth's program thoroughly. In the short time i had i managed to get it to validate with a fake serial, after 10 seconds it comes up with the box again but it will still validate with the fake serial. When i get home i'll try and fix it.
celest...
i've made a new version... after talking with another fellow on irc about it's weaknesses, i've fixed it up a bit more...
uses stronger encryption, some hashing and whatnot...
lets see if u can crack this...
no dll this time either....
other than that, heh pretty scary that u simply took it out like that..
leads me to believe u bypassed the point in the program that if the code returns ok, the product code is ok... if that's the case, that sucks. lol..
that means the weakness is not hte product code, but rather the structural design of the program...
i mean, what else can u do besides make things look a bit more inconspicuous and make your code a maze?
When you disasseble a program, it is running in assembler.
Assembler JUMP s to the necessary code to do stuff. These jumps can be re-pointed to point completely over your validation and checking.
I don't have too awful much experience with it, but I am told that one thing a programmer should do is initialize a few of their program's useful variables within the validation routines of the registration software (which makes ANY addin you buy useless becuase they will always cause a JUMP).
Also, someone can stop a disassembled program and examine the stack at any time.
If they know one good reg number for your program, they can then just watch the stack for that to come up.
I beleive W32DASM already has that 'feature' built in.
FYI
Hey guys im pretty new to vb6 here and need some tips. What i'm trying to do is exactly what Redth has done. I know how to request the hard drive serial and display it but I have no idea where to go from here. I would like to get some ideas/examples on how to create the "sharware" process and how I could convert the hard drive numbers into letters, to then make a generator that produces another set of letters (which would be an activation key) that the program compares with the hdd serial and accepts if generated correctly.
I just need some general examples to get started off. :cool:
sorry to bring up such an old topic, but this one seemed closer to the issue im working on when it came up in search. If there are other topics with info. im looking for please direct me to them.
Thanks for any help, this is an awesome forum. waiting your reply..
Can you use 3DES to encrypt? Its a triple encryption to 160 bits.Quote:
Originally Posted by [Digital-X-Treme]