Which martial art should I try?

I'm thinking of getting into something regularly... can't decide. Have the added decision hardship of getting my girlfriend in as well. She's keen, but less violent, more 'dancy' than I.

My choices...

Capoeira - I'm keen, but I reckon I'm a bit unfit, and not flexible enough yet

KickBoxing - I'm very keen, but I reckon the violence is too much for Lisa

Karate - meh, no opinion

Tae-Kwon-Do - I'm not a huge fan, there's too much emphasis on throws and 'patterns' I think...

Judo - no idea about this one

Other??

Well the votes have it.....karate rocks big time;)

There is no substitute...the rest are for wannabes


Do you need the contact details for your local dojo

The rest of them are flower arranging


Seppos do the others


...Convinced yet, gee and wait till l do that second lesson...

Find pathfinder

Aikido - Doesn't take strength, it's all about using your opponents momentum. Honestly, there's nothing else to touch it. It's not as flash and showy as the others but it's v effective. Plus you get to use swords (practice ones), which is nice.

It's more or less the same as real karate, except you get to wear the figure hugging sleeveless vest thingy instead of the traditional 'gi'; and the ref has to dress like an ice-cream salesman. Balls are optional.

But seriously, go for Karate. Find out if the Ryu Kyu Kobujutsu style is offered near you. That's what my son does: you get nunchaka sticks, and a long pole broomstick type of thing, and funny looking bent daggers. Way cool.

(Plus you get to sweep the dojo floor as a ritual cleansing once a week. )

http://www.meg.uct.ac.za/dhorwitz/kobojutsu.htm

http://www.isc.meiji.ac.jp/~ce00604/ryukyu/tope.html

http://www.rkagb.com/

what about kung-fu? isn't that what bruce lee did?

Where's the Origami option?
:)









Well, someone had to say it! :)

well let me say none of them compares to some kung fu...

kung fu'll rip any of those styles apart, its graceful (for the lady) and builds stamina (for the bed ;)) and it enables you to kick the living **** out of pretty much anything that dont have a gun (for you)

:D:D:D

Don't believe anyone that tells you "this is the best" or "nothing can beat this". That's all bollocks, frankly. Styles aren't better than each other, martial artists are. Some styles suit different people better.

Aikido is good, a grappling style based very much on using the opponent's force against them. I believe it's based mainly on circular patterns. It's quite 'internal' compared with the other arts mentioned. Judo is good in the same way but is more like just manhandling your opponent. Both Judo and Aikido grew out of Jujitsu, which is a pretty vicious grappling art where your ultimate aim is to basically kill your opponent by any means necessary. Judo doesn't have much at all in the way of strikes, Aikido has more but not many strikes, and Jujitsu has more strikes again but they are really not the focus of the art. Aikido and Jujitsu have a particular focus on armed opponents, and multiple opponents. I did some Judo years ago and really enjoyed it.

I don't know a lot about karate, but it's certainly pretty good. There are different styles, that suit different people. Shotokan is quite strongly based on speed I believe, and there are some other styles like kyokushin that are more power-based. Like I said I don't know much about it but it seems popular.

There are also various different styles of kung fu. These are Chinese martial arts; karate, judo, aikido and jujitsu are all Japanese, and Tae Kwon Do is Korean (there is also hapkido, a Korean art much like aikido). Chinese martial arts tend to take a slightly different stance, as far as I can tell. They use forms instead of kata. Forms are sets of movements which are meant to encapsulate the principles of the art. Kata are generally a JMA (Japanese martial art) thing, and they are a little more more situation-reaction based.

There is also very often some emphasis on chi and meridians in CMAs.

There are also various internal CMAs. The most famous of these is Tai Chi Chuan. Others less well-known to most people are Baguazhan and Hsing-I (also written Xing-Yi). These are similar to Aikido (and Judo shares some of these principles too) in that you are blending with the opponent, yielding to their force in such a way that they lose balance or position. It is remarkable just how easily people can be taken off-balance in this way. These internal CMAs are the kind that really require a lot of time to get to the point where they have significant practical use, though.

There are also different kinds of kung fu, like choy li fut, hung gar, wing chun, eagle claw, mantis, pak mei... the list goes on and on. 'Kung fu' is Chinese for 'time and effort' by the way, so it's not a term specifically aimed at martial arts. A more specific term is 'wushu', which is a term for the Chinese martial arts in general and is generally what is meant by 'kung fu'. Many of the different 'external' styles (as the arts which require more physical effort are called) are based on animal movements and attitudes. Many of them are named after such animals, like mantis and white crane.

I don't know anything about Capoeira, although I've heard of it.

Tae Kwon Do is very kick-oriented. I've never been very keen on it but if you have long legs and don't like to punch too much it's probably good. Apologies to any TKD devotees out there. The French have something similar called Savate (I think that's what it's called)... and you know how renowned the French are for their combat skills :rolleyes:

Kickboxing is pretty good but a little limited IMO. It's all oriented towards fighting in the ring with rules about what you can do. Muay Thai is a kind of kickboxing that is the national sport of Thailand and is much more brutal. I recommend that over normal western kickboxing ;) If you are dedicated you will get very fit, but it's very reliant on physical strength and endurance and your girlfriend will probably hate it. The big swinging shinkicks are very powerful though.

Personally I study Wing Chun Kung Fu and Tai Chi Chu'an. I am very much a beginner at both, especially Tai Chi. Wing Chun is based on centreline attack strategies and more circular defensive strategies. It's very up-close-and-personal. It's also very good for women because it relies more on technique, timing and speed than on brute force. There are various stories about its origins, but the most popular one is that it was named after Yim Wing Chun, a woman who learnt it from a nun at a Shaolin monastery to defend herself against a particularly insistent suitor of hers.

.....


Anyway, having said (typed) all that, I don't think it really matters what you do. The important thing is that you get it together and go and try something out. If it doesn't suit you for some reason then try something else. Any of the arts mentioned here will be useful to you, and at a beginner level it's not going to make a huge difference.

Thank you Harry Chan for your comprehensive report on martial arts.
Here's Tod with the weather. Over to you Tod

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Originally posted by HarryW
Don't believe anyone that tells you "this is the best" or "nothing can beat this". ..... t

yadda yadda

....try something else. Any of the arts mentioned here will be useful to you, and at a beginner level it's not going to make a huge difference.

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Bloody hell Harry.

I think you're right- it would be like saying cricket is better than curling.

But I still say RKK has the coolest stuff....

ok harry, now what is the sum of this equation?

f(x)=e²-mx+x^2-xe^-xln+1

:p

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Originally posted by ghost ryder
ok harry, now what is the sum of this equation?

f(x)=e²-mx+x^2-xe^-xln+1

:p

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I don't know mate, ln is a function and you didn't provide any arguments to it :rolleyes:

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Originally posted by HarryW
I don't know mate, ln is a function and you didn't provide any arguments to it :rolleyes:

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lol i know mate :D

i was pissin around addin bits from my maths exam together...i just made it up :p

so whats up?

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Originally posted by Wally Pipp
Thank you Harry Chan for your comprehensive report on martial arts.
Here's Tod with the weather. Over to you Tod

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LOL:D :D :D

I am starting Capoeira on Sunday and I am really unfit.

I run out of breath just running up the stairs at home ;)

I used to practice Lau-Gar Kung Fu, and did a little Kick Boxing too...

What is Capoeira like? I have in the back of my mind that you just use a rope as a belt, but that's it, and that could be wrong.

If you want to use weapons there are all kinds of different arts that you can do. In Wing Chun the core weapons are the six and a half point long pole (a staff basically) and the butterfly knives, which are like two short chinese broadswords. In my school we also learn to use sticks, which are like half-size staves.

Aikido has a lot of cool stuff too, I believe you get to use katanas/tachi and some other cool stuff. Most internal styles have straightswords (like the main sword in Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon) and broadswords. There are a whole load of them in different kung fu styles: chain whips of different lengths, spears, rope spears, nunchaka (sp?), sai, melon hammers, tonfa, blah blah blah.... again, the list goes on and on. I'm pretty sure the same can be said for karate, but I don't know too much about it.

There are also arts based solely on swordplay, if it interests you. I think there's one called kenjutsu, or there's kendo. Also there are arts based on dealing a killing blow with the same action as drawing the sword. It becomes like a ritual movement. I think that's called something like iaijutsu, and there's a non-martial, purely artistic thing called iaisu I think.

A quick mention for a style we missed out - ninjitsu. This is the art of fighting dirty, essentially ;) Well, dirty but with a lot of flair. Lots of emphasis on using the surroundings to your advantage.

There's also Krav Maga, an Israeli style that is trained in the Israeli military. Quite brutal, more martial than art.

There's lots of arts from all kinds of countries. Kenpo is from Hawaii I think, and is quite karate-like but aimed at streetfigthing. Training involves... streetfighting and getting punched a lot. Not to be confused with Kempo, a Japanese (I think) art also like karate. I may have them the wrong way around ;)

There's Sambo from Russia. It's a wrestling style that has a lot in common with Judo. Quite effective. The Brazilians have their own version of Jujitsu nowadays. Not sure how different it is but it seems very popular in the US.

For a comprehensive list you might want to visit http://groups.google.com and look at alt.rec.martial-arts (I think that's the right group name). Every month or two a big list of different styles and brief descriptions gets posted there. You can also ask questions on usenet of course.

There are plenty of MA forums around, but of course people tend to be a little biased towards their respective arts. http://www.dragonslist.com/discussion and http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum are two, but have a kung fu slant to them, although the general forums have all kinds of people in them.

Oh yes - there's also Atemi, which may not be a martial art in itself but it's all about pressure points. Links with accupuncture, but with different goals (ie kill the bastard rather than heal them).

I agree Serge, very few people in the general population can generate large quantities of power, through brute force or technique. Still, though, there are more ways to develop power than just through boxing. Boxing is fine, the training is certainly good for your strength and especially your endurance, but it's not the ultimate in fighting. Your average streetfight will involve either two guys throwing huge badly aimed punches at each other or two guys rolling around on the floor trying to kill/maim each other. If you train in boxing then you're gonna to better in either. Equally, if you train in TKD you're gonna do better in either, or if you do karate, or kung fu, or anything. I personally think something like Jujitsu is a great way to defend yourself in a streetfight because it's flexible. It has some good strikes and if it goes to the ground, awesome groundwork skills. Very few people will keep fighting if you break their arm or choke them to unconsciousness. Just the same, very few people will keep fighting with a broken nose or ribs because they picked on a boxer. The average drunken goon on the street isn't going to be doing very much after they get chopped in the throat and can barely breathe because they picked on a kung fu expert.

At a basic level, fights are won with just power, but really, how much power do you need to stop someone from harming you. Look at Aikido, or Tai Chi, or Wu Dan. The power is there but it's not the power that wins, it's the technique. At a high level of proficiency in arts like Aikido there are no-contact throws. No contact. That's the power of technique.

Exactly, Harry. And I could spend a lot of power and hit somoene in the head and knock them on their bum. Or I could spend a fraction of that power, hit them in the throat, and drop them to their knees.

Power is nice, but it will only beat power (average street fight). Skill is a whole different field.

how 'bout that billy blanks stuff?
http://www.vbforums.com/images/ieimages/2002/02/20.jpg

No offense to anyone, but all this is a theory. When it comes to the real deal I've never seen anyone doing martial arts by the book. You don't have time to through your leg in the air. While you're doing that you'll be on the ground out cold.

Travis, you gotta first make sure you hit the throat. I've seen many "skilled" artists but in the real fight its all gone.

I don't have a clue :confused:

I knew we'd get some good conversation out of this one... ;)

Ok, my comments for all who care.

#1) Don't even mention that Tae-Bo **** again. That crap pisses me off no end. It should be illegal for an aerobics class to promote itself at self-defence. Seriously, how much more able to defend themselves is someone (particularly women) going to be after doing that crap?? It pisses me off alot, and that's all I'm gonna say about that.

#2) Capoeira, for anyone who's interested, is a sort of dancing/fighting style. I believe it was developed by African slaves during Portugese occupation of somewhere or other. They obviously weren't allowed to train to fight, so they hid their training with alot of music, clapping, dancing etc. The focus in Capoeira is on continual movement, you never stop, and as such, whatever happens, you can just flow with it, get out of the way, move in for a strike, whatever. If you've ever seen pros doing this, it is ****ing cool. These guys flip in the air, do a one-hand-stand and kick you in the head. Since we're all computer types, check out the Playstation game Tekken3 - the character Eddie Gordo uses Capoeira, very accurately too, actually. Some other places you may see it - on the 'Roots' film clip by Sepultura, in some dance-music film clip recently. I don't think there's much in it for power, but for flexibility and speed, and general coolness, it is the best. :D

#3)I don't want to use weapons. I'm very against that crap. Plus, how often do you get in a swordfight, really??

#4) Brag-time. ;) - someone said something about no-one continuing a fight after getting a broken nose. Well, I was in a fight once where this guy threw a full king-hit at me, and 'cause I was pissed, I just watched him while he did it, and didn'tmove an inch. Then, afterwards, with blood pissing out of my nose, I told him to do it again. Then he stopped fighting, and we went home. :D

#5) I reckon Kickboxing is probably the best for a street-fight, myself, if you're willing to throw a kick at someone outside a pub. :D A kickboxer against a pissed ****wit is gonna knock him out, easily. There is alot of power in the legs, and I'm quite partial to the various forearm/elbow strikes. Short, fast, and hurty. ;)

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Originally posted by Serge
Travis, you gotta first make sure you hit the throat. I've seen many "skilled" artists but in the real fight its all gone.

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Here's a classic story for you - completely true. In a Melbourne (I think) casino, some years back, Jean Claude Van Damme (who I believe is trained in kickboxing among other things) started hitting on this woman, and would let up. Well, she was the wife/girlfriend of an Aussie basketballer, who got the ****s, punched Van Damme, and put him on his arse, and that was the end of it.
:D

I would imagine that van Damme sued. If not, then he knew better to hit back. As a celebrity, he knows he will get sued if he hits anyone for any reason.

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Originally posted by Serge
No offense to anyone, but all this is a theory. When it comes to the real deal I've never seen anyone doing martial arts by the book. You don't have time to through your leg in the air. While you're doing that you'll be on the ground out cold.

Travis, you gotta first make sure you hit the throat. I've seen many "skilled" artists but in the real fight its all gone.

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I do agree with you here Serge. It's all theory. It often takes many years of dedication to get to the point where you can use whatever martial art you choose naturally in a conflict. This is why I said it doesn't matter all that much what you do, though. The best thing you can do is remain calm, and if you're trained in any combative skill you're likely to do better at this and not do anything stupid.

I think grappling is a little different though. Trained grappling skills really do show up. It's very easy to pick up some basic skills in that pretty fast too.


I know what you mean by Capoeira now :) I was reading the description and thinking "ahh that's that thing Eddie Gordo does" and then you mentioned Tekken 3 ;) Very popular in Brazil innit, which explains the appearance in the Roots vid. Have you noticed that one of the Sepultura guys is wearing a Brazilian Jujitsu T-shirt? He's very keen on that apparently.

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Originally posted by CiberTHuG
I would imagine that van Damme sued. If not, then he knew better to hit back. As a celebrity, he knows he will get sued if he hits anyone for any reason.

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I doubt it - he started it by groping this dude's wife. Plus, no self-respecting judge in Australia is gonna let some foreign actor poof sue an Aussie sportsman. He'd be murdered... :D

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Originally posted by HarryW
I do agree with you here Serge. It's all theory. It often takes many years of dedication to get to the point where you can use whatever martial art you choose naturally in a conflict. This is why I said it doesn't matter all that much what you do, though. The best thing you can do is remain calm, and if you're trained in any combative skill you're likely to do better at this and not do anything stupid.

I think grappling is a little different though. Trained grappling skills really do show up. It's very easy to pick up some basic skills in that pretty fast too.


I know what you mean by Capoeira now :) I was reading the description and thinking "ahh that's that thing Eddie Gordo does" and then you mentioned Tekken 3 ;) Very popular in Brazil innit, which explains the appearance in the Roots vid. Have you noticed that one of the Sepultura guys is wearing a Brazilian Jujitsu T-shirt? He's very keen on that apparently.

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True, it's all theory I guess, but practice and building yourself up physically and mentally is a big advantage. If through learning a martial art I can now raise a kick to head height, then I'm more likely to pull it off for real, than if I just stupidly tried to do it now... :p

Yeah, Cap is very Brazilian (or rather Portugese...), although Africans developed it. Two guys fully trained in this are so cool to watch, they spin and flip and do all sorts of cool ****, without ever hitting each other. Perfect sync. I love it. :D

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Originally posted by rjlohan
#5) I reckon Kickboxing is probably the best for a street-fight, myself, if you're willing to throw a kick at someone outside a pub. :D A kickboxer against a pissed ****wit is gonna knock him out, easily. There is alot of power in the legs, and I'm quite partial to the various forearm/elbow strikes. Short, fast, and hurty. ;)

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This is basically the same for anything, though. A <insert martial artist here> against a pissed ***wit is gonna knock him out, easily.

Maybe some styles would do it a little differently though - they might choke him out, or break a bone instead. You don't wanna get kicked in the ribs by a decent Muay Thai guy.... ouch!

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Originally posted by HarryW
This is basically the same for anything, though. A <insert martial artist here> against a pissed ***wit is gonna knock him out, easily.

Maybe some styles would do it a little differently though - they might choke him out, or break a bone instead. You don't wanna get kicked in the ribs by a decent Muay Thai guy.... ouch!

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Very true. That Muay Thai is madness... :eek:
I've seen guys train for that by constantly kicking metal poles (unguarded, and very hard, with shins) for hours straight... :eek:

RJ:

Capoeira origins are debated all the time. Some say African some say brazilian!
But the Playstation Tekken3 where you got that from says Brazillian i'm pretty sure.

The african version of events was not slaves Capoeira was performed as a athletic game.
The brazilian origins say it was fight for freedom!

I would say do TKD i did it for 4 years and it was top fun and a good skill to know. Oh and we did harly any throwing but lots of patterns. But mostly kicks, punches and blocks and a lot of emphasis on your technique.

Also look at Zendokai incorporates the best of kick boxing and TKD into one art i did that for a year b4 i moved house!

Whatever you choose always go to training soon as you stop you notice how much slower and how easy it is to lose that touch.

Serge:

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I've done it for about 5 years (I was pretty good), but nothing can prepare you for the street fight.

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I have to disagree i will put my money on someone who has training in a martial art versus someone who doesnt purely based on the fact that martial arts teaches you more than just ways to kick, punch and look fancy.
It teaches you things like what to look for so you can get out of a fight( the point of martial arts is not to kill a person but to give you the ability as a last resort. The best way to win a fight is to not fight at all.), teaches you where to look at your oponent, teaches speed, teaches flexibility, teaches how to block etc.

Having this knowledge is far greater preperation then just getting in a brawl! When your properly training and practicing you are a lot fast and better skilled it becomes 2nd nature it did for me.
Sure you may hardly ever see someone kick in a fight, though it is one of the best ways to keep an attacker a good distance away, because you get all caught up in the situation but knowing how to block and react to certain circumstances could save your life.

You want self-defense kick him in the nuts then run! That was the first thing our master taught us and i've never heard better advice!

I think my choices may be limited by what I can find nearby... I have plenty on already, so I don't want to be driving for over an hour to study some obscure martial art in Bondi... :p

I'm also a big fan of choking people with a headlock until they can't breathe. That's good fun. ;)

Chokes and arm/leg bars are an integral part of most grappling styles. They usual strategy of a Judoka when faced with an attack is block, grab, throw, pin, choke. Alternatively, use a joint lock instead of a choke, but chokes can pretty much guarantee unconsciousness if held. Judo is a lot of fun :)

Anyway, let us know what you have available in the area that's viable.

Shall do. :)

BTW - I have a mate who is a cop, and he knows some sweet holds, that you can't get out of, without alot of pain. :D One is just a one-handed wrist grab, where he twists it up into you, and it bloody hurts... :eek:

Bollocks kick him in the nuts he'll let go!
Else scrape his shines, stamp on his foot and head butt him!:)

else -

use the BB approach, and run screaming from the room, and hide behind a pot plant....

:p

Any art is a good art, as long as it is taught properly.

It all depends on what you are looking for out of it. :)

I have studied Ki Aikido for eleven years now, and taught for over six years. It's not an art that is effective in five minutes.

I have never had a fight since I have studied Ki Aikido, so perhaps it is working. ;)

Just my two cents. :)

it depends on what exactly you want to accomplish from this??? As anyone here, that has ever been in a fight can attest...most fights are generally close quarters combat. no room for kicking etc... That said I would suggest looking into an art that taught an effective defense, not a flashy high flying one. I studied TKD for 11 years, and in my opinion it isn't worth a **** if the attacker is within 1-2 feet of you. There is no room to place power behind your kicks..I studied (and hope to continue studying sometime in the future) aikido...It doesn't require strength...it's fluid low-impact (doesn't put stress on your joints) movements and very brutal when executed correctly.

I haven't heard anyone mention JKD? I would have studied JKD had there been a dojo within 100 miles of me, but there isn't.

I am studdying Kung-Fu.....Hung gar style....that is ment for close compat..no fancy kicks as in Kung-Fu-Hollywood style....At full contact contest we are supposed to get as close the opponent as possible. Peoples are getting scared if you try to get as close to them as possible, and then use a nice Crane Hawk or something. I have never been to a fight either after I startet to studdy martial art. Startet with Aikido 6 years ago. But ended when I started in military. Came in handy tho' in close combat at the recruit. But from now on it will only be Kung-Fu for me.

ØØ

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Originally posted by HarryW
I agree Serge, very few people in the general population can generate large quantities of power, through brute force or technique. Still, though, there are more ways to develop power than just through boxing. Boxing is fine, the training is certainly good for your strength and especially your endurance, but it's not the ultimate in fighting. Your average streetfight will involve either two guys throwing huge badly aimed punches at each other or two guys rolling around on the floor trying to kill/maim each other. If you train in boxing then you're gonna to better in either. Equally, if you train in TKD you're gonna do better in either, or if you do karate, or kung fu, or anything. I personally think something like Jujitsu is a great way to defend yourself in a streetfight because it's flexible. It has some good strikes and if it goes to the ground, awesome groundwork skills. Very few people will keep fighting if you break their arm or choke them to unconsciousness. Just the same, very few people will keep fighting with a broken nose or ribs because they picked on a boxer. The average drunken goon on the street isn't going to be doing very much after they get chopped in the throat and can barely breathe because they picked on a kung fu expert.

At a basic level, fights are won with just power, but really, how much power do you need to stop someone from harming you. Look at Aikido, or Tai Chi, or Wu Dan. The power is there but it's not the power that wins, it's the technique. At a high level of proficiency in arts like Aikido there are no-contact throws. No contact. That's the power of technique.

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Out of the ring, dialog is the most important thing IMO. IE: the moments leading up to a fight. For example you can watch your mirror for an adren dump (They'll appear nervous unless they have been in a whole lot of fights and learned how to hide it). Ask them a question or tell them you don't wanna fight and hit them while their brain is processing it.

hehehe...or just walk away...

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Ask them a question or tell them you don't wanna fight and hit them while their brain is processing it.

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Hey, if it works. :D