Is Bush sincerely trying to rid the entire world of all terrorism, or is he doing it to just further his politcal standing? Will the issue die out after we get those reponsible for the WTC incident?
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Is Bush sincerely trying to rid the entire world of all terrorism, or is he doing it to just further his politcal standing? Will the issue die out after we get those reponsible for the WTC incident?
Bush doesn't really realize that this isn't an occassional thing. What you saw at the World Trade Center is exactly what is going on in Israel every day on a larger scale. We'll see what happens.
Jewish boy, shadduapQuote:
Originally posted by aknisely
Bush doesn't really realize that this isn't an occassional thing. What you saw at the World Trade Center is exactly what is going on in Israel every day on a larger scale. We'll see what happens.
no its totally different
Israel is abusing their rights
so they blow themselves up taking up some jews
its totally different,
now shadduap
too bad this attack was on americans....
Kovan's entered the fray, this thread will soon have 80 posts.
Kovan's been on my ignore list for two and a half weeks, I don't care for anything he says.
filburt, can i ask why ur avatar has a pic of osama bin laden??
im assuming that you want to kill him for what happened in the USA??
excuse me, but there is no concrete proof that he is to blame, im amazed when i look around at the whole world is talking as if he has admitted responsibilty, they are talking to pakistan as if he is the one who has done this
he was denied access to the outside world, well so the taliban claim
now he may or he may not be responsible, and if he is then i will give you the gun to blow his mother****ing head off, but until then, dont jump on the bandwagon please, it pisses me off
just had 2 say that :)
I already said that.Quote:
Originally posted by ghost ryder
filburt, can i ask why ur avatar has a pic of osama bin laden??
im assuming that you want to kill him for what happened in the USA??
excuse me, but there is no concrete proof that he is to blame, im amazed when i look around at the whole world is talking as if he has admitted responsibilty, they are talking to pakistan as if he is the one who has done this
he was denied access to the outside world, well so the taliban claim
now he may or he may not be responsible, and if he is then i will give you the gun to blow his mother****ing head off, but until then, dont jump on the bandwagon please, it pisses me off
just had 2 say that :)
oh sorry man, didnt realise :o
btw, thanks 4 changing ur avatar
There is. The hijackers have been identified as working under Bin Laden's group.Quote:
excuse me, but there is no concrete proof that he is to blame
Anyways, it doesn't matter. Bin Laden was working on a death sentence before he destroyed the towers.
Well, if the Taliban says that, then I guess he's off the hook. I mean, look at the credibility of the Taliban!!Quote:
he was denied access to the outside world, well so the taliban claim
He is.Quote:
now he may or he may not be responsible
akinsley, please just SHUT THE HELL UP!!
there is NO concrete proof, yea bin laden was on a death sentance, the taliban say he didnt have access, so maybe he did, maybe he didnt, how do we know for sure??
there are many hijackers who r linked 2 bin laden, so just coz a couple of then were trained under him dont mean ****
now like i said, if the man is responsible, then blow the **** out of HIM (not afghanistan)
but the problem is that bush seems intent on startin a war with afghanistan without any solid proof
and this may just be me, but does anyone else think that the FBI has found the info a bit too quickly??
I hope you aren't kovan...Quote:
akinsley, please just SHUT THE HELL UP!!
I already told you that many (if not all) of the hijackers have been linked to Bin Laden's terrorist organizations and suborganizations.Quote:
there is NO concrete proof
It does mean ***. It means a whole bloody lot.Quote:
so just coz a couple of then were trained under him dont mean ****
He doesn't want, nor is he going, to start a war with Afghanistan.Quote:
but the problem is that bush seems intent on startin a war with afghanistan without any solid proof
Considering that there is an incredible wealth of information, and hundreds of intelligence staff working for the FBI, the CIA, and other similar organizations around the world, I'm surprised they're releasing information this slowly.Quote:
and this may just be me, but does anyone else think that the FBI has found the info a bit too quickly??
If you think that they're telling all that they know, you're a damned fool.
akinsley, this is your mission, should you choose to accept it
SHUT THE HELL UP!!
this message will self destruct if not stored properly
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ghost ryder
[B BOOOOOOOOM! UOTE]
GR I couldn't resist it! :D
:D its cool manQuote:
Originally posted by jpbtennisman
GR I couldn't resist it! :D
lets just hope akinsley has accepted the mission, or we may all become victims of CNSD (cereberal node shut down)
it has been known to be caused by boredom!! :)
What the hell is your problem?? I don't think I've said anything to upset you...
not really, just havin some funQuote:
Originally posted by aknisely
What the hell is your problem?? I don't think I've said anything to upset you...
although u did piss me off with ur whole "its bin laden for sure, get him get him!!" thing
I didn't say that, and your refusal to even consider him as a suspect both frightens and amazes me.Quote:
although u did piss me off with ur whole "its bin laden for sure, get him get him!!" thing
I think that answers your above statementQuote:
by Ghost Ryder
now he may or he may not be responsible, and if he is then i will give you the gun to blow his mother****ing head off
well yea, basically it does
he is a suspect, but the problem is, there is no other suspects, that is what is gettin 2 me, NO ONE else has even been mentioned, i mean, how wierd is that
That really doesn't solve my problem. You told me to shut up and completely ignored the rest of my posts because I said that it was Osama Bin Laden's operatives that conducted the terrorist attacks.
I don't find that weird as much as I find that incriminating.Quote:
he is a suspect, but the problem is, there is no other suspects, that is what is gettin 2 me, NO ONE else has even been mentioned, i mean, how wierd is that
you didnt say he was INVOLVED, you said he was TO BLAMEQuote:
Originally posted by aknisely
He is.
big difference pally
So, Back to Bush, I heard he was going to ask Congress to declare war. 4/5 americans want military action.
Mind explaining how the leader of Al-Qaeda would not know the one of the most devastating terrorist acts was being prepared and funded by him? I find that to be an incredibly ludicrous claim.Quote:
Originally posted by ghost ryder
you didnt say he was INVOLVED, you said he was TO BLAME
i know, thats a shame coz they r probably gonna get their wish, and that will start WW3Quote:
Originally posted by markman
So, Back to Bush, I heard he was going to ask Congress to declare war. 4/5 americans want military action.
bush needs 2 do this rationally, coz lets say he bombs the aghani's
USA is happy. everyone is glad that "offenders" have been punished
out of the ashes rises thousands of afghani's, now with even more hatred for the USA, and even more commitment to their cause
the terrorists get their hands on some nuclear weapons (there r some in pakistan which could be taken)
they bomb washington, new york, chicago & LA. thus rendering the USA dead in the water, the USA launches its missiles as well as the UK stepping in as well
the aghani's have iraq on their side
sadam bombs london, paris, amsterdam (noooooooooo), madrid, barcelona, munich, berlin, aberdeen, birmigham, thus rendering europe dead in the water
every fire nuclear missiles at everyone else, nuclear winter, humanity dies, the cockroach rules the earth
ARE YOU HAPPY MR BUSH!?!?!?! YOU'VE DESTROYED THE EARTH, BUT HEY, AT LEAST YOU WON THE WAR ON TERRORISM, OH WAIT, NO YOU DIDNT YOU ****, YOU BECAME AND EVEN MORE VICIOUS TERRORIST AND WIPED HUMANITY OFF THIS PLANET, WELL DONE U HILLBILLY
p.s. i know you all think that the above may be extreme, but the scary thing is that it could happen, in a matter of months, we all make jokes about how stupid bush is, but the fact is that bush could very well start WW3, and that is something NO ONE wants to see, be they muslim, jew, christian, or just plain redneck
You are kovan.
yeah ok, whatever, im too tired 2 be arguing with u
Uh huh...
Kovan uses more newlines. :D :DQuote:
Originally posted by aknisely
You are kovan.
He's trying to cover his tracks.
It couldnt happen like that Ghost Ryder...Cause the US has satellites that can track radio-activity, thus detecting the Uranium needed in A-bombs. Its very hard to move them without the US knowing al about it.
I agree with all the above that ryder said except ,I think, that WW3 is not going to start yet. Non of the muslim countries are united and they also also against Afghanistan(TRUE ISLAM).If Afghanis don't get any neuclear weapon then they can't get rid of America. You can also see that Pakistan is now going on the side of America to fight "true Islam"(***** Musharaf)
I don't know why all of muslims (on higher levels) want their chair and money foreever. I also believe that Osama should be punished if he did plot that attack...but there is not even one proof yet!
You can't have peace if your opposition(America) does not like to have peace!
If I told you that the sky was blue, would you believe me? If I told you that the grass is green, would you demand proof?Quote:
I also believe that Osama should be punished if he did plot that attack...but there is not even one proof yet!
Name three definitive pieces of evidence against him.
You should also use the word "I think" bofore the sentence.Quote:
Originally posted by nishantp
It couldnt happen like that Ghost Ryder...Cause the US has satellites that can track radio-activity, thus detecting the Uranium needed in A-bombs. Its very hard to move them without the US knowing al about it.
Nothing can be impossible. Simply, US said that nobody can attack on it in what so ever way. But you saw those attacks WTC that killed 1000's of people. US could not protect them even it had the best security in the world!
Don't be so pride that you (US) think you are God. Look at what happened to you now(the attacks), what happened to Soveit (the super power), and what will happen to you after attacking those brave talibans!
Apparently there was a "four-digit access code" in the planes' transponders, but the hijackers turned off the transponders. I wonder why Boeing designed the planes that way.
I believe that the sky is blue, and the grass is green because I have seen them. But I have not yet gotten any proof about Osama's involvment in those attacks.Quote:
Originally posted by aknisely
If I told you that the sky was blue, would you believe me? If I told you that the grass is green, would you demand proof?
AGAIN, A TRUE PROOF IS NEEDED!
If I were to meet you in a coffee shop, and, while pleasantly chatting, I were to jump up and drive a dagger in your eye, does that make you any less powerful? Does that make me stronger than you?Quote:
Simply, US said that nobody can attack on it in what so ever way. But you saw those attacks WTC that killed 1000's of people. US could not protect them even it had the best security in the world!
Quote:
Name three definitive pieces of evidence against him.
- The hijackers, and their associates, have been linked directly to Osama Bin Laden's group.
- The incident follows the patten of Islamic generally, and specifically Bin Laden's, previous terror attacks.
- Bin Laden was reported to have informed Arabic newspapers of the impending attack four weeks ago.
- Bin Laden has publically denied his involvement in, but also condoned, the attack.
You is exactly what I said. US thought that nobody will ever be able to attack on it *IN WHAT SO EVER WAY*Quote:
Originally posted by aknisely
If I were to meet you in a coffee shop, and, while pleasantly chatting, I were to jump up and drive a dagger in your eye, does that make you any less powerful? Does that make me stronger than you?
Nobody is ever safe. And nobody should be too much proud of himself.
Again, the nations(we) are not shown any proof. These are all just words of the US government. All of the above points should be made clear with some kind of concrete proof.Quote:
- The hijackers, and their associates, have been linked directly to Osama Bin Laden's group.
- The incident follows the patten of Islamic generally, and specifically Bin Laden's, previous terror attacks.
- Bin Laden was reported to have informed Arabic newspapers of the impending attack four weeks ago.
- Bin Laden has publically denied his involvement in, but also condoned, the attack.
1. How?
2. You're comparing an entire religion to one person?
3. Oh? Got a quote?
4. So have all the Palestinans running around cheering in the streets
No. I am comparing one person to US.
Palestinans should be doing that because America is supporting the bloody attacks on Palestinans, and America is also providing Israel weapons to attack on them.
You understand that when it happens to you what is happening to all the Palestinans right now.
The two countries have been acting like little violent kids forever. May I remind you that it was a Serbian dude that effectively started World War I that led to World War II.
Of course you can provide a quote from a US government official who speaks for the US public that supports that claim right?Quote:
Originally posted by abdul
Nothing can be impossible. Simply, US said that nobody can attack on it in what so ever way.
Nobody has ever made this allegation. You can say things like "Nobody attacks the US and gets away with it," but you can't say "The US is invincible to all concievable occurances."Quote:
US thought that nobody will ever be able to attack on it *IN WHAT SO EVER WAY*
Your opinions of what is and is not concrete evidence are neither credible nor of any concern to me.Quote:
All of the above points should be made clear with some kind of concrete proof.
1. The CIA isn't stupid. They know the names of people who work with Bin Laden and similar groups.
2. No. I am saying that terrorist groups that subscribe to this religion have conducted their operations in a fashion similar to that which we saw last week.
3. Sigh, I'll look for it in a bit.
4. Palestinians have neither the resolve nor resources to take on something like this.
Firstly, Palestine is not and has never been an autonomous nation. Second, Israel is defending itself from the same terrorism that you saw in New York every single day. The difference is that Israel kills terrorists, Palestinians kill women and children.Quote:
The two countries have been acting like little violent kids forever
Er, for the sake of honest reporting I'm going to stick my hand up on this one.Quote:
Originally posted by nishantp
It couldnt happen like that Ghost Ryder...Cause the US has satellites that can track radio-activity, thus detecting the Uranium needed in A-bombs. Its very hard to move them without the US knowing al about it.
Almost all items on earth give of radiocativity. A satelite that would track such items would be impractical (Would you belive that Aberdeen is highly radiocative). You really want plutonium for bombs, and it's surprisingly abundant on the planet.
I just thought I'd set the record straight from someone who knows this stuff....
SD
Even former President Clinton was after bin Laden:Quote:
Originally posted by abdul
I believe that the sky is blue, and the grass is green because I have seen them. But I have not yet gotten any proof about Osama's involvment in those attacks.
AGAIN, A TRUE PROOF IS NEEDED!
http://www.msnbc.com/news/628739.asp
So Bush is not going into this and pointing his finger at the first
Joe that comes along. bin Laden is a known terrorist.
So are you saying that only the hijackers should be punished for
this? It's a little too late for that.
Aknisley
The hijackers, and their associates, have been linked directly to Osama Bin Laden's group.
This, on it's own, is not proof of Bin Laden's involvement.
The incident follows the patten of Islamic generally, and specifically Bin Laden's, previous terror attacks.
This is purely circumstancial.
Bin Laden was reported to have informed Arabic newspapers of the impending attack four weeks ago.
No more than heresay. More substanciation is required.
Bin Laden has publically denied his involvement in, but also condoned, the attack.
He denied it. So it doesn't matter that he condoned it; would you expect otherwise?
I'm not saying that it wasn't him but we shouldn't ever jump to conclusions. Even the USA are only saying that he is the prime suspect. They do not yet have conclusive proof (although that probably won't stop them going in and kicking a** anyway).
I just hope that America makes an effort to keep the majority of the Islamic world on it's side. The last thing we want is for them all to unite against America (and NATO).
This, on it's own, is not proof of Bin Laden's involvement.
It's incredibly strong evidence when grouped with the other facts.
This is purely circumstancial.
Even so.
No more than heresay. More substanciation is required.
Required for what? A trial? There will be no extradition or trial.
He denied it. So it doesn't matter that he condoned it; would you expect otherwise?
I honestly don't trust terrorists. If a terrorist says something, I tend to think the other way.
Jump to what conclusions? He's already guilty of mass-murder on numerous other events.Quote:
I'm not saying that it wasn't him but we shouldn't ever jump to conclusions.
There's very little the Government of the United States of America is saying to the television in comparison with what they know and think.Quote:
the USA are only saying that he is the prime suspect.
OK, that may be true. Does this mean then that the USA will go after every known terrorist? Will they invade every country that has ever sponsored terrorism?Quote:
Jump to what conclusions? He's already guilty of mass-murder on numerous other events.
It seems to me that the USA may not care about evidence. They may just rush in and, like a bull in a china shop, they will not consider who's being trampled on.
They may. Sometimes you don't realize that there is a problem until you get a piece of it yourself, then you understand what's been happening to other people.Quote:
Does this mean then that the USA will go after every known terrorist?
I heard a statistic on this subject the other day: more than 10 times as many US civilians were killed in the WTC attack in a little over 1 hour than Palestinians have been killed in the entire Middle East conflict. How accurate that statement was I cannot vouch for, but it is fair to say that this has been much more devastating in terms of loss of human life than the situation in Palestine.Quote:
Palestinans should be doing that because America is supporting the bloody attacks on Palestinans, and America is also providing Israel weapons to attack on them.
You understand that when it happens to you what is happening to all the Palestinans right now.
But then, you probably see that as a good thing. Do you ever consider human issues and set aside Islamic issues? Or are human issues irrelevant when religion is involved? Is religion more important than human suffering?
'True Islam'? You think the Taleban represent 'true Islam'? I think perhaps Kovan would have something to say about that.Quote:
Non of the muslim countries are united and they also also against Afghanistan(TRUE ISLAM).If Afghanis don't get any neuclear weapon then they can't get rid of America. You can also see that Pakistan is now going on the side of America to fight "true Islam"(***** Musharaf)
I have often heard the virtues of tolerance expressed in quotes from the Koran. I remember there were specific passages which said something to the effect of 'let each person choose their own religion - just because someone is not a muslim it doesn't mean you should persecute them'. Under the Taleban's laws, any Afghan that converts to a non-Islamic religion is considered a criminal and sentenced to death. Where is the tolerance the Koran preaches? How can you possibly interpret the Taleban's laws as 'truly' Islamic?
Sorry to say aknisely but there is some circumstantial evidence for an involvement of bin Laden that is all.
After the bombing of the US-embacies there has been an attempt to kill bin Laden and to destroy his training camps. 70 cruise missiles have been fired into Afghanistan. This happened in 1998 Did this prevent the attack on the WTC?
It is political and sustainde action that will end terrorism. If bin Laden can be proven the mind behind the 911-attack he must be caught. Cruise missiles can't do that.
The kind of hard talk - and soon action - of Mr. Bush will worsen the problem. Much like anything Ariel Sharon did worsened the problem in Israel.
I posted on this in
this thread too - click on the link in my last post for a good article in Far Eastern Economic Review.
Then propose another possibility. Who better fits the facts than Bin Laden?Quote:
Sorry to say aknisely but there is some circumstantial evidence for an involvement of bin Laden that is all.
Quite obviously not, since Bin Laden didn't die in those attacks.Quote:
This happened in 1998 Did this prevent the attack on the WTC?
Could you have done better? When people refuse to listen to reason, what more can you do? When people make agreements, then immediately break them, how do you deal with them? If people want to kill you and your family and everyone in your country because they think you're ruining the land, what do you do?Quote:
Much like anything Ariel Sharon did worsened the problem in Israel.
Bit tricky - it would involve them invading themselves in retaliation for their long-term support, including financial support, for the IRA while they were busy bombing the **** out of us. :pQuote:
Originally posted by simonm
Will they invade every country that has ever sponsored terrorism?
Agreed. It's all very well going in there guns blazing but it's not going to solve the problem long term on it's own. The relationships between Islamic countries and western countries must be worked on to achieve a greater level of understanding between all.Quote:
The kind of hard talk - and soon action - of Mr. Bush will worsen the problem. Much like anything Ariel Sharon did worsened the problem in Israel.
Just storming in and killing all the terrorists will leave nothing other than bitter resentment in those that they leave behind.
Aknisely
I think that a problem here is that you (perhaps) and others in Israel do not make the distinction between those who want to make peace and those that don't.Quote:
When people refuse to listen to reason, what more can you do? When people make agreements, then immediately break them, how do you deal with them? If people want to kill you and your family and everyone in your country because they think you're ruining the land, what do you do?
If the Palestinians make an agreement and then an extremist faction comes along and breaks it, does that mean that all palestinians are untrustworthy? The extremists don't want peace and by allowing them to break the agreements between Israel and Palestine, you are allowing them to dictate the agenda.
Do you not think it is part of Bin Laden's plan (if he was guilty) to enrage America so much that it carelessly attacked Islamic countries in such a way that it causes them to unite in an anti-american front and carry out the holy war (that Bin Laden has demonstrated so many times in the past is what he wants)?
He wants Islam to unite against America and that is just what might happen if America don't take care to keep the current global coalition together.
I totally agree with Simon here (is this a first? :)), it is vitally important that this anti-terrorism coalition (or whatever you want to call it) doesn't stir up a feeling among the Islamic nations that it is making anti-Islamic attacks. This is one of the reasons I thought it was so inappropriate that Bush quoted Psalms at his initial speech.
Making this into a holy war is a very bad idea indeed. I have to say I was very glad to see that the Pakistani government has taken a fairly neutral standpoint in this situation. If they had backed Afghanistan (and it's still possible they might) it would have caused a lot of trouble I think, with consequences reaching further than just Pakistan and Afghanistan, into other Islamic nations.
Of course not. Likewise, we aren't holding Palestinians accountable for the terorrism of the extremist groups. Unfortunately, the extremist groups are the only organized (term used very lightly) group of people with whom we are to deal with. They are the ones who made the Oslo accords, and they were the ones that broke them. They will now suffer the consequences.Quote:
f the Palestinians make an agreement and then an extremist faction comes along and breaks it, does that mean that all palestinians are untrustworthy?
We aren't allowing them to break the agreements. We have not, are not, and will never tolerate terrorism against the state of Israel. If you commit terrorism against Israel, you will die. And that's just the way it is.Quote:
The extremists don't want peace and by allowing them to break the agreements between Israel and Palestine, you are allowing them to dictate the agenda.
Aknisely: Well actually yes I think I could have done better. A lot of people could and would have done better. There are a lot of Israeli politicians too that could and would have done better and I hope some day soon they will get the possibility to do so.
As for broken agreements: agreements have been and are being broken by both sides every and each day!
To make sure I do not side with Palestinian terrorists. Nor with any terrorists. But I cannot side with Israel if it acts the way it does either. If it was not for the US government Israel had been condemned by the UNO more than once. And there were more than only the usual suspects to vote for this. Guess why?
Again: military action will not and CAN NOT end a problem like this. For every terrorist killed three will step up. This will continue as long as they have support in their home country. This support can not be broken by any army but only multiplied.
Israel is a rich country. The only truly developed country in the region. By helping its neighbours to develop too it can help itself. By fighting its neighbors (and especially the closest ones) it only fights itself.
regards,
Helger