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I was wondering how many people actually pay for software and why.
I was thinking of releasing a few VB Apps in the future, and I was wondering if its actually worth selling them, if anyone is going to buy them or not.
I know that would depend on if their good or not. But I know some people don't even buy things they are really usefull. So I wanna get some feedback.
*cough* Chit Chat :D
Well I am 17 years old and I do not work and I have VisualBasic6. I know is not good but for moment I do not have money sowwwy :p
But I know I will buy real version when I will be older ;)
Anyhow, do you guys think that is a good enough reason? Just cause I want a car that dosen't mean I should go out and steal it :)
??
Chit Chat is there : Chit Chat
Thx you
Many people prefer not to pay for software, so I think I represent a very small number of people. I pay for all the software I get. I've been doing it for years. I'm 19 now. That means that even when I was 16 or 17, I'd still pay for whatever I got. If I couldn't afford something, I'd either try to get my parents to get it or just not get it.
Me, I buy all the non-game programs I have. (except MS's OS's)
I always do. And for those that don't, just wait until (or if that is) your survival depends on money you earn as a programmer. Then you'll wish people would pay for your stuff :D.
(This is if you're a commissioned programmer. If you're a salaried programmer, and then it doesn't matter that much to you personally, but your employer/company will of course be concerned heh heh).
Obviousely hasn't visited my web site before -----^:D
Hey lets say you do own a small company. Of course you have to buy all the software, but does a microsoft representative have the right to ask for proof of your purchase, if they know your using the software?
What happens if you fail?
I'm 17 and I pay for almost all of my software. I do it just because I know if I was selling mine I would want people to pay instead of pirating it. I try to follow the golden rule :D
You should buy the softwares then. You may get cought:D
I am 16 and:
I never bought any software even if I had some money:) I always buy the hardware stuff like "CD burner", "RAM" because it is impossible to get as a warez;)
If I had gotten $1000, I will still not buy any software that I need
I agree with all of you but heyhey Msoffice is like over 400$ and Visualbasic6 is over 300$....They are very expensive , anyway I know I do that only temporary. When I will work on program I know I will hate to see person who get it without paid :\ soI know I will buy all program ..but later :D
I like a slight twist of that rule. "Do unto others before they do unto you." :D (I don't follow that. I just think it's funny.)Quote:
Originally posted by zer0_flaw
I try to follow the golden rule :D
I payed for all of the softwares I owned...
VS6 Professional - $2999
Windows 2k - $199
Metal Gear Solid for PC - $19.99
FF7 - $9.99
FF8 - $19.99
I know a lot of famous people, so I get it cheaper...
mm... thankfully my company will have to pay for all my software.
not so sure I would have paid for everything I used if it had to come from my own pockets though...
uh... I'm a weak weak person... :)
Where on earth can you get FF7 for only $9.99? You buy pirated copies?Quote:
Originally posted by prog_tom
I payed for all of the softwares I owned...
VS6 Professional - $2999
Windows 2k - $199
Metal Gear Solid for PC - $19.99
FF7 - $9.99
FF8 - $19.99
Who will give you discounts? I doubt it. :rolleyes:Quote:
Originally posted by prog_tom
I know a lot of famous people, so I get it cheaper...
I dont pay for any large corporations selling software like MS.
I dont have to pay them cause they created a monoply illegally.
But I do pay for normal bussiness who create good products, like ComponentOne For the DataGrid And other controls. Even I downloaded the crack.
Piracy would happen regardless of what anyone else does. The best anyone can hope for is to make it not profitable and kill anyone who does it. So you've got two things in your way 1. The U.S. Constitution and other similars say that the governments based upon them can't do stuff like that. The curel an unusual punishment thing. 2. Charge less or close to what a for profit pirate would *thinking* *thinking* um $10 bucks for a warez version of a large app so like 9 to 15 bucks for something like quake3 or quicken and like 30-50 for something like ms office.
As a company let's use some money grubbing sob very tempting to use microsoft but I'll stick with autodesk they charge more. Autocad 2001 a friend of mine bought the student version for like $400 she told me the full version was close to 30,000 so I'm thinking how can a program be that expensive and who would pay that much for it. I tried the program annoying interface and not too easy to learn once you get used to it it's pretty good but I still hate the interface for the damn thing. Then I started playing with some freeware linux ones and a couple freeware windows ones i even tried a couple shareware clones that went for like 30-50 bucks I never shelled out the cash nor did I pirate them. I realized that the only major difference was the shareware ones had a better looking ui and the freeware ones had an easier to use ui. The only structural differences were a few more bugs in the clones and lack of support for plugins in some versions. for $29,950.00 less and about an hour a month lost productivity it seemed a pretty good bet that some of these were defiantely a better buy. I showed them to my friend but before I tell you what happened think about a junior executive coming into an architecture firm or whatever walking up to the president and saying something like that autocad program we use is crap it's too hard to use and I've found something better but it doesn't stop there it's cheaper too alot cheaper. Visions of golf and caviar dance through the prez's head while the jr. exec goes on about all the reasons why the new product is better than the old. Suddenly two of the old man's frazzled and slightly drunk neurons fire. "Wait you said the program we spend 500,000.00 for a stie license on is CRAP! You're fired! Get out now." And another chance for the world to be a better place has gone down the tubes. Well I was about to tell her about the other progs and realized people are too attached to names. If I bother to tell her she either won't believe me or will stick to her program because of "support" from the company. What makes people think just cause they spend more for something that it's gonna be worth more.:confused:
Anyway the point is The software isn't worth anywhere near what people are willing to pay can anyone think of a parallel between this and major league sports, movie stars, and musicians. Maybe if one person bought a copy of that program and only one then copied it and gave it to every other person in the world with a pc. These companies would stop or maybe they'd jsut charge $75trillion for the sole copy to be sold.
Personally the universe will right itself so I don't really care but I just think it's stupid for people to follow a name.
"Ohh Microsoft has a new OS let's buy it they wanna charge $800 plus your soul for it so it's gotta be better than 98" tried once already and trying again failed before and will fail again. Oh well that what greed becomes stupidity and self destruction.
Any back to the topic. If I find software AI like and use for more than a couple days I'll pay for it. Gladly I might add but if it's not worth it I'll trash it.
And in response to the car stealing thing the loss of that pirated copy of vb cost microsoft nothing zilch notta he wouldn't have boughten a copy anyway a car would have cost the owner/manufacturer alot cause somebody would have bought it or used it. The kid isn't taking anything not processor cycles not money nothing. It's not like he walked into Staples and stole a copy from the shelves. Then that'd be different cause some idiot would have walked along eventually and picked it up from the bargain bin for 10 bucks like right after vb.net 10 comes out. I'll gladly debate but he took nothing. And he is planning on buying a copy later programming is a big part of what I rely on for living but geuss what if somebody wanted to pirate a copy of something I created I wouldn't care as long as they did two things didn't claim they created it and didn't make a profit from it. Cause I know anyone who is good will pay for it if not at first then eventually I reiterate anyone who IS GOOD will.
Microsoft can't scan my computer and prove that I have pirated versions of their software because my firewall won't them :D
Yes that's right! My port 80 is 100% protected from those MS bastards - they can't download my registery.
Blocked Port 80 = (Bill Gates) - (one lawsuite worth of money)
Does vs pro really cost that much. And you are only 12..right? If your parents paid for that then you are lucky:)Quote:
Originally posted by prog_tom
I payed for all of the softwares I owned...
VS6 Professional - $2999
Windows 2k - $199
Metal Gear Solid for PC - $19.99
FF7 - $9.99
FF8 - $19.99
I know a lot of famous people, so I get it cheaper...
How do you explain how the car manufacturer loses money from the theft of the car, while the software company doesn't lose money from the theft of their software from a retailer? I love it when people use twisted logic to defend themselves :D.Quote:
Originally posted by G2k_Headhunter
And in response to the car stealing thing the loss of that pirated copy of vb cost microsoft nothing zilch notta he wouldn't have boughten a copy anyway a car would have cost the owner/manufacturer alot cause somebody would have bought it or used it.
Anyhow, this thread is deteriorating into something ugly, so I'm stopping heh heh.
If you think your software is good enough, try to sell it. The worst that could happen is no one buys it. If no one buys it, perhaps you've tried to sell it for too much, or the public doesn't think it's as useful as you believe. You could always do the shareware kind of deal where an evaluation version is free, but for the full operating prog you have to pay.
G2k_Headhunter
I think pirating some software is ok. I agree that expensive software is not worth the price, and shareware clones or freeware versions can do a great job.
I always buy cheaper software if I find it usefull. Software that someone made and worked hard on. Not saying large cooroperations don't work hard, just saying their doing it for the paycheck not so much for just the sake of programming.
But I do have a question for you. You said that if someone got a copy of your program, and din't claim they made it, or dint make any profit of it you'd be ok with it.
What about if someone got VB lets say, and made a profit from it later on in life because they had the skills from a pirated version. Woulden't that state he still made money from the program?
Im 28, and ive paid for 100% of any software i have ever bought
for ever system i have ever had when i was younger. com 64, 128, Amiga, IBM AT, XT ect....... Now i just try to find the best deal at computer shows. Office 2000 Dev goes for almost $1000 but you can get the Academic version for $275 which is basicaly the same thing. As far as distributing apps on an academic version
i dont think that's it's legaly allowed but as far as i know if you have the Enterprise version of VB you cant distribute an app without the licensing agrement anyway..........
I do not buy software. Ever. Plain and simple. The only reason I'll ever buy software is if I absolutely need it...a couple times I've formatted and realized I've lost or broken the CD with my OS on it, but other than that, I don't buy anything. In fact only just a few hours ago I acquired Office XP Pro with FrontPage and installed...it's really cool, ya'll should get it.
I think that piracy, at least in my own case, is not wrong or anything, and in fact is at no loss the the seller. The principle behind that is the only loss is the opportunity to sell to me and because I never would have bought it anyway the opportunity is not there to lose.
Aknisely & HarryW know plenty about this...we've, err, "discussed" it before...:D ;)
Non paying ppl are evil!!! :eek:
Person A makes or does something. Person B buys it or receives the benefit of it. Person A smiles. Person B smiles. Life is good. Person C doesnt pay. Person A gets very unhappy, tracks down person C and reenacts Texas chainsaw massacres. Life is good eventually.
Prog Tom since your browser I have a funny image of you but each time you talk here I'm laffing so much :) Don't take it bad but I cant beleive you buy VS6 Professional -for $2999 . Do you know how many money is that for a person who dont work 5 days on 5. Anyway, who care ;)
Sorry but Microsoft CANT do that because that ILLEGAL. They can NOT come in computer they want without any permission.Quote:
Microsoft can't scan my computer and prove that I have pirated versions of their software because my firewall won't them
Actually if you ever want a legit Microsoft program, just hang around the university tech buildings. They come a few times a here and give the stuff out. I went to this stupid thing when 2000 came out- free food - and ended up getting VB prof, win 2000, and office 2000 prof.
Many software company's put it in there budget that pirating occurs and don't care. ie It will cost 1 mil to make it hack proof for a few yrs, and only 100,000 for lost profit.
Paying for software? What does that mean? :D :D
why, oh why, does softwares have to cost so much...I remember the good old days when softwares are used to cost nothing thru. $10.
You guys complain about software being expensive when you can download lots of free great compilers, I have a pirated version of VB 6 but i hardly ever use now because there's great free compilers that i can use.
You're weird, just download it. Legality blows.
I got a copy of VB from a friend, then I got VS 6 from someoneQuote:
Originally posted by Bjwbell
You guys complain about software being expensive when you can download lots of free great compilers, I have a pirated version of VB 6 but i hardly ever use now because there's great free compilers that i can use.
How 'bout download your ass to the store and support your fellow ham an' egg programmer?Quote:
You're weird, just download it.
Without legality, you probably wouldn't live in your house or apartment. You wouldn't have a service agreement on your computer. Someone you know would probably be executed for a crime he or she did not commit. It frightens me when there is so little respect nowadays. -- not only for the law, but for ethical decisions.Quote:
Legality blows.
That's how i got VB 6, my uncle loaned it to me.
I doubt a company like Autodesk has as high of a return on development as Microsoft. AutoCAD and similar programs have a very targeted demographic, thus less quantity sold, plus usually cost more to develop than an application like Office. As a result, industrial products such as AutoCAD usually cost many times more than a general use product like Office.Quote:
As a company let's use some money grubbing sob very tempting to use microsoft but I'll stick with autodesk they charge more
Architects base their entire livelyhood around CAD applications. A painter might spend as much on an art studio; a software company might spend as much on a small network of computers; a construction company spends a large multiple of that on machinery.Quote:
she told me the full version was close to 30,000 so I'm thinking how can a program be that expensive and who would pay that much for it
What about functionality? It might be easier to draw a picture of your house, what about a large office complex or a manufacturing plant? Freeware CAD applications are like toy trucks compared to AutoCAD.Quote:
I realized that the only major difference was the shareware ones had a better looking ui and the freeware ones had an easier to use ui
I'd fire your IT manager if he spends half a million on an app without properly testing it and comparing it to everything else on the market to make sure that this is the way to go.Quote:
"Wait you said the program we spend 500,000.00 for a stie license on is CRAP! You're fired! Get out now."
It's not always the case, but usually. NetWare has made a name for being the best NOS. Will it be forver? Probably not. Apache is the most proliferated Web server. Will it last a hundred years? Doubtful. Things change, but you can't expect people to replace thousands of dollars on a whim.Quote:
. What makes people think just cause they spend more for something that it's gonna be worth more.
So what? Your evaluation as to the difference fo how much my software is worth to you and how much I'm charging for it is irrelevant. You don't need to buy my software if you feel it's unreasonable. You don't need to go to the baseball game; but that doesn't give you the right to sneak in because the ticket prices are "unfair" to you.Quote:
The software isn't worth anywhere near what people are willing to pay can anyone think of a parallel between this and major league sports, movie stars, and musicians
I don't get the point of that.Quote:
Maybe if one person bought a copy of that program and only one then copied it and gave it to every other person in the world with a pc. These companies would stop or maybe they'd jsut charge $75trillion for the sole copy to be sold.
It's naive to base large purchases only on a name. But remember that name carries a reputation -- for better or for worse. If people repeatedly buy poor products from a company, the company's reputation will adjust accordingly. It's a very mechanical system.Quote:
Personally the universe will right itself so I don't really care but I just think it's stupid for people to follow a name.
Do you sneak into movies because it wouldn't cost the film or theatre company anything? If you do, you're hurting the livlihoods for the ticket sellers, the popcorn servers, and everyone who works with the movie. And they aren't all millionaires who live in beach houses on waterfront property. The people who get paid less than $75,000 are usually the first to go when sales slump.Quote:
And in response to the car stealing thing the loss of that pirated copy of vb cost microsoft nothing zilch notta he wouldn't have boughten a copy anyway a car would have cost the owner/manufacturer alot cause somebody would have bought it or used it
He did take something. He, who might sometime in the future purchased that software, just cost a software company hundreds or thousands of dollars. Material costs are irrelevant.Quote:
I'll gladly debate but he took nothing
You'd think differently if your food and clothing depended on software sales.Quote:
And he is planning on buying a copy later programming is a big part of what I rely on for living but geuss what if somebody wanted to pirate a copy of something I created I wouldn't care as long as they did two things didn't claim they created it and didn't make a profit from it.
Right. Anyone who IS BAD goes to jail.Quote:
Cause I know anyone who is good will pay for it if not at first then eventually I reiterate anyone who IS GOOD will.
If my software is being pirated/warezed, I would take itQuote:
Originally posted by invitro
I was wondering how many people actually pay for software and why.
I was thinking of releasing a few VB Apps in the future, and I was wondering if its actually worth selling them, if anyone is going to buy them or not.
I know that would depend on if their good or not. But I know some people don't even buy things they are really usefull. So I wanna get some feedback.
as a compliment. Atleast they think my software to be
worth their efforts.
There seems to be different views on whether to pay
for Software or not. But one thing to remember is that these piracy has infact helped Microsoft to a large
extent by making a large number of third party utilities for their operating system.
Sorry if this comes across as too blunt but what alot of crap! As if u can eat and pay bills on compliments. Ppl that dont pay for their software are mighty good at making excuses for why it isnt too bad, or is right, or is justified, or is ok becos MS is already rich etc etc. I cant believe that so many ppl on this forum think this way. Do u never intend to make money from ur skills? Are u going to form a charity software organisation? This argument is quite childish. In the real world things cost money, ppl get paid etc etc.Quote:
Originally posted by amitabh
If my software is being pirated/warezed, I would take it
as a compliment. Atleast they think my software to be
worth their efforts.
There seems to be different views on whether to pay
for Software or not. But one thing to remember is that these piracy has infact helped Microsoft to a large
extent by making a large number of third party utilities for their operating system.
Regards
Stuart
That's fine, but suppose you already know you make a good product? Suppose you're a market leader -- people buy your product by the thousands, corporations pay millions for your products because they are of worthy quality and spend millions more to support it -- you already know people like your software and appreciate your efforts. It's at that point when it becomes insulting that people think your efforts aren't worth their money, yet pay exorbitantly to distribute it without your consent.Quote:
If my software is being pirated/warezed, I would take it
as a compliment.Atleast they think my software to be
worth their efforts.
Microsoft knows that its developers tools are dispensible -- by enforcing their copyrights thereupon would probably cost them more in the long run. But it's people and companies who can afford to buy, and choose not to out of convenience and therefore steal, thousands of dollars of software that enriches their business and makes them more productive. Thankfully, not a large number of businesses are doing this. But piracy is a multi-billion dollar problem costing thousands of jobs every year, and hurting the development of software.Quote:
There seems to be different views on whether to pay
for Software or not. But one thing to remember is that these piracy has infact helped Microsoft to a large
extent by making a large number of third party utilities for their operating system.
Hey maybe we should discuss Napster and mp3 sharing too. Oh and how about the Middle East? Hmm what else.... Oh yeah lets discuss how women are treated in Islamic cultures too.
Bad.Quote:
Hey maybe we should discuss Napster and mp3 sharing too.
Bad.Quote:
Oh and how about the Middle East?
Badly.Quote:
Hmm what else.... Oh yeah lets discuss how women are treated in Islamic cultures too.
I expected better from you.... :D
LMAO!!!!Quote:
Originally posted by HarryW
Hey maybe we should discuss Napster and mp3 sharing too. Oh and how about the Middle East? Hmm what else.... Oh yeah lets discuss how women are treated in Islamic cultures too.
Please, let's not start this god-awful debate again. For all of you who have no idea what we're talking about, go here at your own risk. The thread from hell It's pretty long. We got carried away.
well no i downloaded vb6 ent from a warez site but in if u go to honk kong like i do sometimes u can get anything for about £3 (dont ask me about us dollars) including win2k, office 2k premium, ms train sim virtually anything
Why, afraid you'll lose?:DQuote:
Please, let's not start this god-awful debate again
There is no losing or winning, it's an infinite loop ofarguing and peril, a swirling black abyss of...well, you get the idea.:D
Seriously, though, I took the time to respond to your post....
Oh, you want a response? Well, sorry mate, no soup for you.:D I'd rather not have a huge long debate right now. Some other time, I'm sure...:) ;) :D :cool:
:mad:
You owe me, pal.
Hehe, start up a thread with an interesting topic and we'll see what happens.;)
Kaverin, What I meant was that if someone steals a car for anywhere the company is losing money. If someone goes into say staples and steals a copy of a program the company is losing money. If someone who wouldn't have paid for the program making a copy of a friends cd and using that The company does not lose money they never would have had it. The reason the first two lose money is because they are losing actual product cd's or cars and not in the thrid instance because they are not losing anything physical and the person would never have paid for it anyway. Similarily if someone who would have paid for say Visual Studio Enterprise Edition or something like that warez'd it and didn't pay the company is still losing money if I mistyped it earlier sorry for the confusion.
Invitro, If I were Bill Gates I wouldn't care about a few hundred or even a few thousand dollars because that person is raising support for my product. What I was refering to was someone making copies of something I made and charging their friends 5 bucks a pop for something I sell for 50. Or like someone making a coppies of quake3 with slight modifications so It looked a little origional and saying they made it then selling it or even giving it away.
I'm all for freedom of information. I'm against current copyright laws. I wouldn't use it for anything other than to make people think twice before making an "Illegal" copy of a program I wrote. I doubt with the current state of the american legal system I'd ever bother to sue anyone for doing something like that. Maybe if I agreed with the laws or they were changed. I'm willing to debate this but I don't bother to check my email every day.
___________________________________________________
My new software said: "Install Win95 or better ..."
So I installed Linux.
You can't say that the person "never would have had it." They might not have bought it that week, but the week after that? What about in a year's time?Quote:
If someone who wouldn't have paid for the program making a copy of a friends cd and using that The company does not lose money they never would have had it.
No, and Microsoft isn't going after kids who burn Office for their friends. Microsoft is going after people who pirate five thousand copies of Office for their company, and that is blatant abuse.Quote:
If I were Bill Gates I wouldn't care about a few hundred or even a few thousand dollars because that person is raising support for my product.
Specifically, which laws?Quote:
I'm all for freedom of information. I'm against current copyright laws
But you're against copyrights.Quote:
I wouldn't use it for anything other than to make people think twice before making an "Illegal" copy of a program I wrote.
aknisely,
Why don't you think this topic should include mp3 and file sharing as well it's the same issue jsut different *******s. Architects don't base their entire livelyhoods on CAD programs many still do things with paper and pencils many more still do the final drafts by hand and autodes made a program back in the dos days that sold for under 50 dollars called autosketch it was a predecessor of autocad just as good only 2d and just as in demand.
No, actually they aren't you just have to look for a good one It's called research something you probably havent done since college. You might fire someone who wasted half a million but if you were his boss you'd probably never even know about it and most people that high up on the food chain only know big names anyway. If the ticket price is unfair to a baseball game I'd watch it on TV for free. If I sneak into a movie theater to see a movie I wouldn't have paid for they are not losing any money because either I'm gonna not pay and see it or I'm not gonna pay and not see it. Duh they don't get money either way that's the point.Quote:
What about functionality? It might be easier to draw a picture of your house, what about a large office complex or a manufacturing plant? Freeware CAD applications are like toy trucks compared to AutoCAD.
The point is he wouldn't have paid for it regardless of whether or not he used it. My food may not rely on my programs but my clothes do and I don't think differently. It's about the free exchange of knowledge remember the reason the internet was released to the public. It can't be stopped and it can't but put back in the bottle. None of you can honestly say that you have never used a program you didn't obtain legally you never download a rom of a game you never used a friends serial number or cd to try a game or other program before putting money into it yourself. Even other "professional" programmers agree with this statement "Pirating a piece of software that you would otherwise buy is wrong, stealing a car is wrong, pirating something you could never afford is not bad" I can't remember where I saw it but it's paraphrasing of something a "progessional programmer siad.Quote:
He did take something. He, who might sometime in the future purchased that software, just cost a software company hundreds or thousands of dollars. Material costs are irrelevant.
As for you I sense several things
a: You want to be a real programmer.
b: You have a job for a company where one of your tasks it to write/maintain code.
c: You are not a Professional programmer ie. You have to do things other than write code to pay your bills.
d: You have never known poverty.
e: You don't get along with your parents.
If I'm worng then I'm actually sorry and if you tell me at least somewhat politely I'll apologize. but I'm guessing I'm not that far off.
edit:
I do agree with a handfull of what you said stealing software no matter why isn't right but sometimes it's not wrong either. I really am sorry if my guesses are wrong and I will apologize if I am.
___________________________________________
May all the liar's fingers fall off.
It's the same issue, but a few of the laws are different. For example, fair use pertaining to music allows you to share copies of music with friends and family. This is not so for software. Just little things like that tend to deviate the two catagories.Quote:
Why don't you think this topic should include mp3 and file sharing as well it's the same issue jsut different *******s.
You're getting a bit mean here; I haven't yet been to college.Quote:
It's called research something you probably havent done since college.
Watching it on TV isn't wrong; you'd be watching advertisements at the same time, which pay for the television viewing.Quote:
If the ticket price is unfair to a baseball game I'd watch it on TV for free.
They don't lose any money; they don't gain any money either.Quote:
Duh they don't get money either way that's the point.
Right, and my point is that his point is a paradox. You might not have been interested in buying the product when you download it, but you might in two weeks' time. It's impossible to determine whether or not you would otherwise have bought the product; furthermore, it's quite foolish to assume that your tastes and demand for the product will be identical all the time.Quote:
The point is he wouldn't have paid for it regardless of whether or not he used it.
Free exchange of knowledge as you describe would diminish a company's ability to make software. Software isn't just made by long-haired kids in basements or college students.Quote:
It's about the free exchange of knowledge remember the reason the internet was released to the public.
Of course not, the Internet has too many legitimate purposes. You can't ban cars because people drive drunk; you can, however, make drunk driving illegal.Quote:
It can't be stopped and it can't but put back in the bottle.
I can. But I do know that most people can't. The best you can do is honestly put an effort into obeying the law, even if it's an inconvenience.Quote:
None of you can honestly say that you have never used a program you didn't obtain legally you never download a rom of a game you never used a friends serial number or cd to try a game or other program before putting money into it yourself.
I'll take B, C, and D. As for the rest:Quote:
a: You want to be a real programmer.
b: You have a job for a company where one of your tasks it to write/maintain code.
c: You are not a Professional programmer ie. You have to do things other than write code to pay your bills.
d: You have never known poverty.
e: You don't get along with your parents.
a: I want to be a tax lawyer, not a programmer;
c: Sorta, I really don't need to pay a lot of bills;
e: I get along fine with my parents. I do well in school, don't do drugs, and buy them things on their birthdays.
Maybe but it's not likely. Today I might want to use AutoCAD for something-or-other and just copy it. It's the likelihood of my being willing to buy it in two weeks time if I don't get it now is small to the point of being negligible. Perhaps next year I'll start using it commercially and be able to justify investing in it, in which case it will be bought. Perhaps I'll never really use enough to justify the cost. Using it in the meantime has the potential to tempt me not to buy it when I can justify the cost, but using the product without paying is not unreasonable until the point is reached where I would buy it if I didn't already have it.Quote:
You might not have been interested in buying the product when you download it, but you might in two weeks' time
That's a very subjective thing to say. Maybe that's what you would consider to be 'the best' thing to do, but other people's values may differ slightly. Their values are just as relevant and just as 'correct' as yours, although they may not be as popular and as such aren't recognised as correct by the law.Quote:
The best you can do is honestly put an effort into obeying the law, even if it's an inconvenience.
I actually don't really pirate any software that isn't made by MicroSh*tF***ers. I can't understand why anyone would actually pay for their crap. I only use it beacuse most people do and I don't have the time nor the energy to change their minds.
Changing people's minds is the fun part and akinsely sorry i was wrong but damn close.
Just because something is illegal doesn't make it wrong. It just means of whoever made the law either didn't want people to do it or they didn't know of a situation where the law could be used differently or the illegal action could be necessary and/or propper.
no but most of it is Windows was written by two college dropouts in a basement. Linux was written in a dorm I think (close enough dank and smelly) by a short haired kid. I myself have short hair. As do most of the programmers I know personaly. I don't think it's necessary to have long hair but the basement atmosphere does seem kinda helpful.Quote:
Free exchange of knowledge as you describe would diminish a company's ability to make software. Software isn't just made by long-haired kids in basements or college students.
I know there were other great programs written in a basement or similar Napster was mostly on a laptop in a car I think.
So does that mean it's not wrong to break the law? Most people (I think) live by the belief that breaking the law is bad. It's common sense (I think so, anyway).Quote:
Originally posted by G2k_Headhunter
Just because something is illegal doesn't make it wrong.
My Dear Friend Harry,
This is where it becomes a problem. You can't use a car from a dealership that you think is going to remain unused for as long as you want, and justify it by saying you're trying it out. Trying it out is fine, but only if the vendor wants you to try it out.Quote:
Perhaps next year I'll start using it commercially and be able to justify investing in it, in which case it will be bought.
The law in a democratic society was elected by the people who live there. If everyone were granted the privilage to violate the law because it conflicts with their values, then the judiciary wouldn't work and the result would be anarchy.Quote:
Their values are just as relevant and just as 'correct' as yours, although they may not be as popular and as such aren't recognised as correct by the law.
My Kindest Relation Gouda,
If you think Microsoft makes an inferior product, why are you stealing it in the first place? That's like saying, "Yeah, I stole a Lionel Richie CD from the HMV."Quote:
I can't understand why anyone would actually pay for their crap.
Honest Headhunter,
Title 17, like all parts of the USC, was enacted by the People of the United States of America.Quote:
It just means of whoever made the law either didn't want people to do it or they didn't know of a situation where the law could be used differently or the illegal action could be necessary and/or propper.
Windows is developed by hundreds of people in a Redmond, WA office complex.Quote:
o but most of it is Windows was written by two college dropouts in a basement
Aggravating Aknisely ;)
I use MicroSh*tF***er's software because it's mainstream...more help and other resources is available for their crap. And I'm far too lazy to try and bring down the wealthiest coporation in America, so I'll just continue using their crap until someone else does. What can I say, I'm a lazy pothead...:D not really...:D
So you only use something that you hate because other people use it and you can't "bring down" a (mostly) legitimate company?
Oh not the car thing again. Using a car devalues it and stops others from using it. The analogy isn't valid.Quote:
This is where it becomes a problem. You can't use a car from a dealership that you think is going to remain unused for as long as you want, and justify it by saying you're trying it out. Trying it out is fine, but only if the vendor wants you to try it out.
If you are trying to argue that the law is necessary you're wasting your time trying to tell me that - I already agree. Please try and understand that I am not - NOT - talking about 'granting' people the privilege og violating the law when it conflicts with their values. Legal and illegal are not the main issue, people do follow what they want (what they think is right) unless something (ie the law in this case) stops them. That's a simple fact of life. Trying to say that the law stops everyone from doing anything the majority doesn't want them to do is just kidding yourself. It tries, but it doesn't 100% succeed.Quote:
The law in a democratic society was elected by the people who live there. If everyone were granted the privilage to violate the law because it conflicts with their values, then the judiciary wouldn't work and the result would be anarchy.
In light of this fact, I don't propose any changes in the law, as I must have said at least five times by now. What the law says on this issue is irrelevant to me. What is relevant to me is whether it's wrong to copy things in all circumstances. To understand what I'm talking about you're going to have to look past the 'it's illegal so it must be wrong' idea.