Philosophy VS Religion

I have been watching the growing argument with jesus4u and I thought it would be interesting to find out how many of us analytical and logical thinking programmers support religion against philosophy

To clarify

I know many people are not really religious but they do support the philosophys of religion

I myself however tend to observe religion with philosohpical and analytical approach.

The similarities between certian belief systems around the world I find interesting. All of them involve one or multiple gods

In fact even christianity and Jewish beliefs have a striking semblance to ancient greek and roman myths

For example the greeks had many gods each with certain unique attributes

While christians view god as the only god they also worship certain Super Biengs (the Angels) eg Archangel Michael

These beings are similar to greek myth the devil looks after the under world for example

Also in greek myth there was still the one Overall Ruler Being Zeus

who can be drawn to be very similar to god.

...

Any way I am interested to see what you all think

and wether you belive that philosophy and science will eventaully destroy religion and we become a truly secular world

or if perhaps religion may make a resurgance and maybe dictate our future.

bah....

I scoff at religion!!!

:eek: You are game!!! I would duck for cover if I were you. :p

LOL :D I was wondering how long it would take for someone to make a j4u imposter... already u sound more sensible and sane!! :D

I am sensible..

For the bible did not tell me so :rolleyes:

Scoffing at religion......

Well that is one point of view

I often think the same way

The bible for example is a very vague document that attempts to set a doctrine of conduct but falls short of explaining its basic belief system with any clarity


But there is also buddism and the religion of self and mastering the human senses

That is perhaps something that some may wish to comment on as well

I think religion is just a part of philosophy (literal Greek meaning 'love of knowledge', ie the unending quest to understand) - they're not really seperate subjects in that manner. Religion is just a part of philosophy.

I don't think philosophy will ever die, and for this reason I think there will always be some element of religion.

HarryW

Many great philosophers would be highly upset with that comment

I understand that philosphy often entangles with religion

But there is a very real differnce

Philoshpy is not the worship of a god or belief

Philosophy is the quest to find reasons and even new questions

On all things

It does not have to restrict itself to just religion

However for the purpose of this thread I am simple trying to establish who believes what

And maybe even spark a debate on the the true purpose of religion :D

Re Scoffing at religion
I say why the hell not. All of these religious fruitcakes that make out that they are smarter and more enlightened than us non believers really give me the sh*ts. If I came on here and repeated quotes from Santa Claus could I call u all stupid if you didnt understand his meaning and respect his belly?

So, keep the scoffing up. Sooner these loonies are brought back down to earth the better.

And Santa said "Ho, ho, ho" and lo there was ho. :D

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Originally posted by rudvs2
HarryW

Many great philosophers would be highly upset with that comment

I understand that philosphy often entangles with religion

But there is a very real differnce

Philoshpy is not the worship of a god or belief

Philosophy is the quest to find reasons and even new questions

On all things

It does not have to restrict itself to just religion

However for the purpose of this thread I am simple trying to establish who believes what

And maybe even spark a debate on the the true purpose of religion :D

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I didn't say philosophy was the same thing as religion. I said religion was a part of philosophy.

You cannot get away from religion, everyone has some religious beliefs. If you are an atheist, you believe there is no God. If you are an agnostic, you believe there is not enough evidence to say whether there's a god or not.

I'm certainly not saying that you need to believe in God(s) to be philosophical.

Philosophy is the quest to understand ourselves and our world. Trying to decide whether there is a God is a part of that.

I also have a different view point on where Cristianity or catholisicm sprung from

I belive that this was originally concieved by a small group of eccentrics

When it started to catch on A group of people found that it was a well spring of power and control

The authries and these people then started adding to this belief as a means of controling the population and also a way of collecting wealth

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Originally posted by HarryW
I didn't say philosophy was the same thing as religion. I said religion was a part of philosophy.

You cannot get away from religion, everyone has some religious beliefs. If you are an atheist, you believe there is no God. If you are an agnostic, you believe there is not enough evidence to say whether there's a god or not.

I'm certainly not saying that you need to believe in God(s) to be philosophical.

Philosophy is the quest to understand ourselves and our world. Trying to decide whether there is a God is a part of that.

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I am away from religion, I don't believe in anything at all.

Well you don't even believe in philosophy so you don't count ;)

What is belief in philosophy Harry? I know that I am because I think.

Ahh but do you really think? Or is it alllllll an illlllllllusssssion......?

*twilight zone music*

This is Santa preaching that cigars are the way to the heavenly North Pole.
http://www.vbforums.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=615613

An illusion of what? Thinking?
No It is not a fact Harry, because I think information is a tool, mere definitions for practical purposes, information is either usefull or useless, not true or false.

it is exacty the information that you obtain that helps you come to a decision of wether something is true or false

Everyone makes decisions based on the total knowledge they have at the time of making the decision

No, I do not decide whether something is true or false, I decide whether something is usefull or not.

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Originally posted by beachbum
This is Santa preaching that cigars are the way to the heavenly North Pole.
http://www.vbforums.com/attachment.php?s=&postid=615613

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Well, the santa seems to be an Aussie..and everybody knows that you shouldn't be taking an Aussie quite seriously. :p

Emmm
Forgive the lack of subtlety here but this thread is descending into terminal boredom.

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Originally posted by thinktank
Well, the santa seems to be an Aussie..and everybody knows that you shouldn't be taking an Aussie quite seriously. :p

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LOL naahh, from the cheesy grins I would say Yanks for sure :p

Sorry about dragging philosophy into this thread
I'm off to get some sleep

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Originally posted by beachbum
And Santa said "Ho, ho, ho" and lo there was ho. :D

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He must have been a good pimp ;)

The way I see it, everybody would be alot happier if science religion and philosophy would stick to there areas and not bug each other.

Religion-At it's simplest level, worship of a supreme being

Science-System that answers answerable questions

Philosophy-Metaphysical stuff like: What's the true nature of reallity

We wouldn't have all these arguments if those religious nuts would just realise that a scientific law is the truth despite what your holy book says. And philosophy deals with things that religion deals with, philosophy deals with the issue of if there's a god or not and all religion should do is teach morals and worship.

Can you explain why you believe the scientific law is the truth?

The difference between religion and philosophy is this:

Philosophy starts with a question and looks for answers.

Religion starts with an answer and looks for ways to make the questions fit.


Religous people know they have found the answer.

True philosophers know they will never find the answer.

the answer? what are you talking about simon :)

We all have answers, but there's no "the" for that sake ;)

\* Pulls out a gun and shoots Kedaman *\

Pardon keds, :D

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Kedaman responds:
Why should anyone die If you shoot ? I don't think it is not possible If you think. Scientific law can make you believe that when you shoot someone he is bound to die. But I don't believe in science because you won't die If you shoot.

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Go ahead and shoot me, I will die, because I am hardcoded to respond that way at such information.

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Originally posted by simonm
\* Pulls out a gun and shoots Kedaman *\

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I think you meant:

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/* Pulls out a gun and shoots Kedaman */

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I take it you haven't written C code in a while? :rolleyes:

Scientific law is the *sort of* the truth, as close as us stupid humans can come to it. It its the result of many tests(yes I know I can't spell worth a darn) over many years of research. For example, it has been proven that water is H20 everywere in the universe. However, if you told the anchient Sumerians this, they would probably stone you to death because they thought that water was the god Enki's semen. This is the same thing happening today with the creationists. If they can support creationism through the scientific method, great. They still havent been able to. If they can great. It would just be more scientific knowlage. Which would be great.

Harry

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I think you meant:

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/* Pulls out a gun and shoots Kedaman */
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I take it you haven't written C code in a while?

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Does that mean that Kedaman's not dead? :rolleyes:

Cuallito

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Scientific law is the *sort of* the truth, as close as us stupid humans can come to it.

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I would say that science is in a different category again. Science looks for explanations as to how things happen. Philosophy looks for explanations as to why things happen. Where as religion knows why something happened, they just want to find those explanations that agree with it.

Simon

>religion knows why something happened

How can religion know things? Is it an identity?

>Philosophy looks for explanations as to why things happen

you make it sound like they are persons.

>Science looks for explanations as to how things happen

Let me explain:

Religion, Philosophy and Science is all information. Information doesn't know things, explain things or look for explanations, Information just defines.

Cuallito

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Scientific law is the *sort of* the truth

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How do you come to this conclusion? What is the truth of which you speak? How do you validate a statement? How do you know something is true?

Kedaman

OK then (you pedantic pest) I shall rephrase my last comment:

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Scienists look for explanations as to how things happen. Philosophers looks for explanations as to why things happen. Where as the religous know why something happened, they just want to find those explanations that agree with it.

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Happy now?

Simon
I disagree

Philosophers doesn't have to look for explanations to why things happens as they don't have to think things really happen.

Religious doesn't know why things happens, they believe that something happened. It is called faith. The belief in a truth.

Kedaman

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I disagree

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/* Reloads gun */

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Philosophers doesn't have to look for explanations to why things happens as they don't have to think things really happen.
Religious doesn't know why things happens, they believe that something happened. It is called faith. The belief in a truth.

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Religous people Know the truth (even if they are wrong).
Philosophy deals with the nature of truth itself. Obviously it is valid to question everything about truth (including whether truth itself is a meaningful notion).

Hmm, I might have to dismiss what you just said as biased opinion :)

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/* Reloads gun */

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Do you really think you won't miss this time?

>Religous people Know the truth (even if they are wrong).

Doesn't that sound like a contradiction to you?

>Philosophy deals with the nature of truth itself.

Not at all. Philosophers deals without caring about a truth.